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lewis20
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2/4/2013 10:15:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Videos like this are classified and we aren't supposed to see them.
http://www.liveleak.com...
Do you think it really hurts national security for these videos to be seen?
Whichever side you're on you have to admit the slaughter is hard to watch, makes war a little more real.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
OberHerr
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2/4/2013 10:18:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not gonna watch it yet, what is it of?
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lewis20
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2/4/2013 10:19:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
An Apache gunman killing Taliban in a goat camp in the hills of Afghanistan.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
malcolmxy
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2/4/2013 10:35:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Wars don't cause death any longer. Ain't ya heard?
War is over, if you want it.

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OberHerr
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2/4/2013 10:37:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 10:19:44 PM, lewis20 wrote:
An Apache gunman killing Taliban in a goat camp in the hills of Afghanistan.

Then I'm not gonna view it. I know what those things are capable of, and how it's probably a massacre.

To answer the question, I guess I need to know if they are actually Taliban or not, or if it's just some village, or whatever. Need more context.

Still, regardless, war is never pretty. Not that it should be.

"It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it."

- Robert E. Lee
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lewis20
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2/4/2013 10:38:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 10:35:56 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
Wars don't cause death any longer. Ain't ya heard?

I think if people were exposed to it more they wouldn't be so gun ho.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
malcolmxy
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2/4/2013 10:41:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 10:38:24 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:35:56 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
Wars don't cause death any longer. Ain't ya heard?

I think if people were exposed to it more they wouldn't be so gun ho.

Why yes. I believe that is the point of blocking the flag draped coffins and all other pictures of people dying in war.

I watched the hanging of Hussein as he was screaming that the US had no authority to judge him in his own sovereign nation, just before the life was wrung out of his neck, and I found myself agreeing with him while also being repulsed at the sight of his execution.

War is hell, but it's not so bad if you sanitize out all the hellish stuff.

The fact that all of the sacrifice in these wars lies with military families, and almost no one else, doesn't hurt either.
War is over, if you want it.

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OberHerr
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2/4/2013 10:41:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I do think we should see more of what we are capable of, and what it entails. Like drone strikes, for example.

Still, I don't think we should just go throwing out every classified video we see. There generally are reasons we don't allow people to see them.
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lewis20
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2/4/2013 10:43:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 10:41:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I do think we should see more of what we are capable of, and what it entails. Like drone strikes, for example.

Still, I don't think we should just go throwing out every classified video we see. There generally are reasons we don't allow people to see them.

That's what I'm asking, what good reason is there not to let people see this? It's very real to those its happening to, yet we don't want our public to even see the video of it?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
malcolmxy
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2/4/2013 10:43:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 10:41:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I do think we should see more of what we are capable of, and what it entails. Like drone strikes, for example.

Still, I don't think we should just go throwing out every classified video we see. There generally are reasons we don't allow people to see them.

Those reasons just no longer have anything to do with security.
War is over, if you want it.

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OberHerr
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2/4/2013 10:49:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 10:43:11 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:41:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I do think we should see more of what we are capable of, and what it entails. Like drone strikes, for example.

Still, I don't think we should just go throwing out every classified video we see. There generally are reasons we don't allow people to see them.

That's what I'm asking, what good reason is there not to let people see this? It's very real to those its happening to, yet we don't want our public to even see the video of it?

The problem is that the Taliban are gonna be using this video, maybe out of context, maybe in, to recruit more and more people.

I dunno what's the right choice here. I want people to see it, but either way both sides are gonna twist the context. I just wish they would show it to potential soldiers. Show them what they may have to do.
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OberHerr
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2/4/2013 10:50:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 10:43:35 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:41:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I do think we should see more of what we are capable of, and what it entails. Like drone strikes, for example.

Still, I don't think we should just go throwing out every classified video we see. There generally are reasons we don't allow people to see them.

Those reasons just no longer have anything to do with security.

Says.....you.
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lewis20
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2/4/2013 10:53:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 10:49:36 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The problem is that the Taliban are gonna be using this video, maybe out of context, maybe in, to recruit more and more people.

The taliban might use the video to recruit? The Taliban are illiterate regional freedom fighters who I highly doubt are on youtube. Those were goat herders, to recruit all they have to do is tell their fellow countrymen to look around them.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
OberHerr
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2/4/2013 10:58:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 10:53:54 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:49:36 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The problem is that the Taliban are gonna be using this video, maybe out of context, maybe in, to recruit more and more people.

The taliban might use the video to recruit? The Taliban are illiterate regional freedom fighters who I highly doubt are on youtube. Those were goat herders, to recruit all they have to do is tell their fellow countrymen to look around them.

I think your underestimating a lot sir. It varies region to region. And freedom fighter to half of Afghanistan, menace to the other. Once again, varies region to region. Not saying I wouldn't do the same thing in their place, though I definitely wouldn't do all of the stuff they do.

But, we're both obviously biased to one side.
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malcolmxy
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2/4/2013 11:01:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 10:50:15 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:43:35 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:41:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I do think we should see more of what we are capable of, and what it entails. Like drone strikes, for example.

Still, I don't think we should just go throwing out every classified video we see. There generally are reasons we don't allow people to see them.

Those reasons just no longer have anything to do with security.

Says.....you.

OK...explain to me how seeing the flag draped coffins of dead soldiers, a sight which has been commonplace in all other wars since the advent of photography (hell...before that with artist renderings), will, in any way, hinder our national security.

I'll allow for the fact that I am wrong if anyone can give me a plausible explanation.
War is over, if you want it.

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OberHerr
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2/4/2013 11:02:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 11:01:19 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:50:15 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:43:35 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:41:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I do think we should see more of what we are capable of, and what it entails. Like drone strikes, for example.

Still, I don't think we should just go throwing out every classified video we see. There generally are reasons we don't allow people to see them.

Those reasons just no longer have anything to do with security.

Says.....you.

OK...explain to me how seeing the flag draped coffins of dead soldiers, a sight which has been commonplace in all other wars since the advent of photography (hell...before that with artist renderings), will, in any way, hinder our national security.

I'll allow for the fact that I am wrong if anyone can give me a plausible explanation.

When did I say that flag draped coffins are about national security? Maybe it's this crazy thing called privacy?
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"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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lewis20
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2/4/2013 11:04:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 11:02:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
When did I say that flag draped coffins are about national security? Maybe it's this crazy thing called privacy?

I think he's saying we see videos of IED's going off, flag draped coffins of US soldiers in the news, but never an Apache gunship killing goat herders.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
OberHerr
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2/4/2013 11:07:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 11:04:44 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/4/2013 11:02:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
When did I say that flag draped coffins are about national security? Maybe it's this crazy thing called privacy?

I think he's saying we see videos of IED's going off, flag draped coffins of US soldiers in the news, but never an Apache gunship killing goat herders.

Propoganda? What, you think news is about reporting? It's about telling people what they want to hear, while being entertaining.
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malcolmxy
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2/4/2013 11:15:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 11:02:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/4/2013 11:01:19 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:50:15 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:43:35 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/4/2013 10:41:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I do think we should see more of what we are capable of, and what it entails. Like drone strikes, for example.

Still, I don't think we should just go throwing out every classified video we see. There generally are reasons we don't allow people to see them.

Those reasons just no longer have anything to do with security.

Says.....you.

OK...explain to me how seeing the flag draped coffins of dead soldiers, a sight which has been commonplace in all other wars since the advent of photography (hell...before that with artist renderings), will, in any way, hinder our national security.

I'll allow for the fact that I am wrong if anyone can give me a plausible explanation.

When did I say that flag draped coffins are about national security? Maybe it's this crazy thing called privacy?

OK, explain to me how a closed coffin with a flag draped over it, and nothing to denote whose remains are within it, protects another person's, or persons', privacy.

PS - I didn't say that YOU made this statement about its classification. It was our government which did this.

So, NOT JUST says me. NOW says me AND YOU.
War is over, if you want it.

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malcolmxy
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2/4/2013 11:17:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 11:04:44 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/4/2013 11:02:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
When did I say that flag draped coffins are about national security? Maybe it's this crazy thing called privacy?

I think he's saying we see videos of IED's going off, flag draped coffins of US soldiers in the news, but never an Apache gunship killing goat herders.

When do we see images of flag draped coffins of dead soldiers in the news? Those images are classified, as are images of enemy casualties.

We ONLY see destruction of property.
War is over, if you want it.

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malcolmxy
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2/4/2013 11:29:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 11:17:15 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/4/2013 11:04:44 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/4/2013 11:02:58 PM, OberHerr wrote:
When did I say that flag draped coffins are about national security? Maybe it's this crazy thing called privacy?

I think he's saying we see videos of IED's going off, flag draped coffins of US soldiers in the news, but never an Apache gunship killing goat herders.

When do we see images of flag draped coffins of dead soldiers in the news? Those images are classified, as are images of enemy casualties.

We ONLY see destruction of property.

Basically, we live in the world of The A-Team. Apparently, it is a world which is much more secure than our previous one.

If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the The United States Army.
War is over, if you want it.

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darkkermit
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2/4/2013 11:30:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
its weird, i found it both disturbing and was somewhat desensitized to it as well. It almost felt like watching a video game, but then you realize they're real people. I think what kind of makes it a bit disturbing is how easy it is to emotionally carry it out. I don't think I could kill someone up close and person, but feel like I could emotionally do this kind of task. You don't really get the see the enemy up close and person.
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lewis20
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2/4/2013 11:39:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The parts that really get me:
When the guy is hit and is crawling on the ground trying to escape in vein and they just smoke him again.
The old man hobbling along with his cane and the goats they skip over.
The guy that gets hit directly and all that's left are a bunch of little glowing pieces.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Double_R
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2/4/2013 11:41:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Videos like this are always hard to watch, I think that much is pretty well agreed.

With that said, it does not help for these videos to be out there. No one, especially the enemy should have access to information which helps them understand our process of conducting attacks and our capabilities. Only our military should have that information, assuming you want greater national security.
lewis20
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2/4/2013 11:46:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 11:41:44 PM, Double_R wrote:
Videos like this are always hard to watch, I think that much is pretty well agreed.

With that said, it does not help for these videos to be out there. No one, especially the enemy should have access to information which helps them understand our process of conducting attacks and our capabilities. Only our military should have that information, assuming you want greater national security.

If we are fighting the Russians in a proxy war, I might not want our tactics released. But it's the slaughter of illiterate goat herders in the Afghan mountains. I honestly don't believe the Taliban are getting a hold of these videos and using them to some strategic advantage.
I believe that the role these videos play in opening peoples eyes to the gruesome realities of war far outweigh the possibility that they're hurting national security.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Double_R
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2/4/2013 11:59:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 11:46:49 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/4/2013 11:41:44 PM, Double_R wrote:
Videos like this are always hard to watch, I think that much is pretty well agreed.

With that said, it does not help for these videos to be out there. No one, especially the enemy should have access to information which helps them understand our process of conducting attacks and our capabilities. Only our military should have that information, assuming you want greater national security.

If we are fighting the Russians in a proxy war, I might not want our tactics released. But it's the slaughter of illiterate goat herders in the Afghan mountains. I honestly don't believe the Taliban are getting a hold of these videos and using them to some strategic advantage.
I believe that the role these videos play in opening peoples eyes to the gruesome realities of war far outweigh the possibility that they're hurting national security.

You do realize that Al Qaeda is online right?
http://www.dnaindia.com...
lewis20
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2/5/2013 12:09:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 11:59:19 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 2/4/2013 11:46:49 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/4/2013 11:41:44 PM, Double_R wrote:
Videos like this are always hard to watch, I think that much is pretty well agreed.

With that said, it does not help for these videos to be out there. No one, especially the enemy should have access to information which helps them understand our process of conducting attacks and our capabilities. Only our military should have that information, assuming you want greater national security.

If we are fighting the Russians in a proxy war, I might not want our tactics released. But it's the slaughter of illiterate goat herders in the Afghan mountains. I honestly don't believe the Taliban are getting a hold of these videos and using them to some strategic advantage.
I believe that the role these videos play in opening peoples eyes to the gruesome realities of war far outweigh the possibility that they're hurting national security.

You do realize that Al Qaeda is online right?
http://www.dnaindia.com...

Right but Al Qaeda has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
malcolmxy
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2/5/2013 12:12:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/4/2013 11:59:19 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 2/4/2013 11:46:49 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/4/2013 11:41:44 PM, Double_R wrote:
Videos like this are always hard to watch, I think that much is pretty well agreed.

With that said, it does not help for these videos to be out there. No one, especially the enemy should have access to information which helps them understand our process of conducting attacks and our capabilities. Only our military should have that information, assuming you want greater national security.

If we are fighting the Russians in a proxy war, I might not want our tactics released. But it's the slaughter of illiterate goat herders in the Afghan mountains. I honestly don't believe the Taliban are getting a hold of these videos and using them to some strategic advantage.
I believe that the role these videos play in opening peoples eyes to the gruesome realities of war far outweigh the possibility that they're hurting national security.

You do realize that Al Qaeda is online right?
http://www.dnaindia.com...

You do realize that we are funding and arming al Qaeda through the FSA in Syria, right?
War is over, if you want it.

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lewis20
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2/5/2013 12:14:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also the video doesnt give any more military info than the latest call of duty.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
malcolmxy
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2/5/2013 12:14:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's all a big f*cking facade. Not allowing images of the horrors of war keeps the soccer moms from being disturbed or outraged over these atrocities, and the soccer moms are the last line of defense in war OF terror that we are perpetrating.

Man, propaganda really works and sh*t.
War is over, if you want it.

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