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The Constitution needs a new amendment.

Aned
Posts: 53
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2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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2/12/2013 8:08:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm not an american, but even i know thats a horrible idea.
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Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again? That sucks. :P But yeah, that would be a tragedy because all Obama has done is slowly strangle our civil liberties, give guns to drug cartels, give arms to terrorists in Egypt, and bomb civilians in 2 countries we are not even at war with.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again?

fas"cism
/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

Are you saying that Obama is an extreme, right-win authoritarian?
TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
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2/12/2013 9:37:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again?

fas"cism
/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.



Are you saying that Obama is an extreme, right-win authoritarian?

No, we just can't tolerate his practice :D
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BlackSand
Posts: 21
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2/12/2013 12:43:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Obama plays to big business. Were not any more doveish since he took office. He's taking away gun rights by executive order (I believe all authoritarians do the same). All that we lack is that he enforce his moral views on the rest of the nation, and an argument can be made that he is.

i wouldn't say fascist, but he's kind of a fascist/socialist/capitalist mix. He takes the 'best' from every ideology.

All in all, if he got elected president again, it would kind of be like if the Back Street Boys got back together. The majority would hate him, but he'd still have his fan boys (and girls).
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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2/12/2013 7:22:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again?

fas"cism
/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.



Are you saying that Obama is an extreme, right-win authoritarian?

Seriously? Fascism is right-wing? That twelfth grade pseduo-social studies bullsh!t was rebutted on this website a long time ago.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DoubtingDave
Posts: 380
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2/13/2013 6:33:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

Eh, no. We need an amendment that will term limit congress to two terms
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TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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2/13/2013 8:22:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

Why? For what purpose?
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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2/13/2013 8:46:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again?

fas"cism
/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.



Are you saying that Obama is an extreme, right-win authoritarian?

Yes, has advanced Bush's warmongering agenda 3 fold, he has given tax payer money to corporations, he has expanded the PATRIOT Act, signed the NDAA, and now he is slowly dismantling our gun rights. Yes he IS a fascist.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/13/2013 9:01:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again?

fas"cism
/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.



Are you saying that Obama is an extreme, right-win authoritarian?

Fascism is for low personal freedom and social high inequality. It runs on a nationalist form of socialism and mercantilism to run the economy... Where again is the right wing part?

You're an idiot. Ignorance is going to be the death of me.
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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2/13/2013 9:04:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 6:33:52 AM, DoubtingDave wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

Eh, no. We need an amendment that will term limit congress to two terms

Nice point. But why two terms? Any specific reason?
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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2/13/2013 9:53:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think we need a conversation in this country about term limits. Either they're a good idea, or they're not; as it stands we seem to apply them arbitrarily.

Should Obama be able to run again? I'm not sure, but I'd point out that his ability to run doesn't mean he'd win.
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imabench
Posts: 21,206
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2/13/2013 10:20:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 9:53:40 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
I think we need a conversation in this country about term limits. Either they're a good idea, or they're not; as it stands we seem to apply them arbitrarily.

Should Obama be able to run again? I'm not sure, but I'd point out that his ability to run doesn't mean he'd win.

He probably wouldn't win unless republicans manage to lose two winnable elections in a row....
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ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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2/13/2013 10:49:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 9:53:40 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
I think we need a conversation in this country about term limits. Either they're a good idea, or they're not; as it stands we seem to apply them arbitrarily.

Should Obama be able to run again? I'm not sure, but I'd point out that his ability to run doesn't mean he'd win.

I think term limits have never been seriously considered because the president that instates them realizes it will cause that Pres. to become extremely unpopular.
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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2/13/2013 11:24:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 9:01:13 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again?

fas"cism
/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.



Are you saying that Obama is an extreme, right-win authoritarian?

Fascism is for low personal freedom and social high inequality. It runs on a nationalist form of socialism and mercantilism to run the economy... Where again is the right wing part?

You're an idiot. Ignorance is going to be the death of me.

Ad hominem. I was showing the definition of Fascism, and asking a question. Considering Fascism is on a completely different end of the political spectrum than Obama's party and ideology, I think calling him a Fascist is a bit of a stretch.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/13/2013 2:13:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 11:24:05 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/13/2013 9:01:13 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again?

fas"cism
/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.



Are you saying that Obama is an extreme, right-win authoritarian?

Fascism is for low personal freedom and social high inequality. It runs on a nationalist form of socialism and mercantilism to run the economy... Where again is the right wing part?

You're an idiot. Ignorance is going to be the death of me.

Ad hominem. I was showing the definition of Fascism, and asking a question. Considering Fascism is on a completely different end of the political spectrum than Obama's party and ideology, I think calling him a Fascist is a bit of a stretch.

*sigh* yes I used ad hominem. Grow up, you deserved it. You have no clue what fascism is do you?
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/13/2013 2:46:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I vote an amendment that says the United States military budget is not to exceed that of the combined sum of the ten highest spending countries.
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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2/13/2013 3:09:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 7:22:02 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
Seriously? Fascism is right-wing? That twelfth grade pseduo-social studies bullsh!t was rebutted on this website a long time ago.

Fascism's values are right-wing (hypothesis). Core values are ultranationalist, autarky, self-sufficiency, organic society, strong large government and authoritarian, promotion of cultural homogeneity and industry working to serve the populace.

Conservatism (i.e. right-wing test). Core values are tradition, stability, organic society, strong large government, authoritarian, nationalist, cultural homogeneity and industry working to serve the bourgeois class (i.e. private property in pre-Disraeli Conservatism and noblesse oblige) or the populace (i.e. private property One Nation Tories).

Key values are generally the same. Thus, the two are ideologically aligned.

The idea is so heavily agreed by consensus with masses of writings promoting their ideological union (especially due to the fact that the Conservative Parties of nations time and time again supported fascism while the socialists heavily rejected it). The right is known as "The party of Order" from the original scale, which is why the far-right are fascists. Modern usage goes down either to what they used to mean (making fascists right-wing) or just grouping them together based on consensus (making, again, fascists right-wing).

The arguments against translate to "Fascists used to be socialists", which is just as logical as saying "Fascists used to be babies" to prove that Fascists are under the age of 5.
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MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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2/13/2013 4:04:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 2:13:26 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/13/2013 11:24:05 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/13/2013 9:01:13 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again?

fas"cism
/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.



Are you saying that Obama is an extreme, right-win authoritarian?

Fascism is for low personal freedom and social high inequality. It runs on a nationalist form of socialism and mercantilism to run the economy... Where again is the right wing part?

You're an idiot. Ignorance is going to be the death of me.

Ad hominem. I was showing the definition of Fascism, and asking a question. Considering Fascism is on a completely different end of the political spectrum than Obama's party and ideology, I think calling him a Fascist is a bit of a stretch.

*sigh* yes I used ad hominem. Grow up, you deserved it. You have no clue what fascism is do you?

It's kind of ironic that you're telling me to grow up, erstwhile hurling pointless ad hominem because your point is indefensible. Ad hominem is childish. I have no interest in child-like insults.

Fascism is a political ideology dominated by ultra-nationalism with a corporatist economic model. It's authoritarian, and to the right of the spectrum. Liberalism, socialism, and communism are all to the left on the political spectrum of Fascism. Tell me, again, without hurling pointless ad hominem, is Obama an extreme, right wing authoritarian?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/13/2013 4:48:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 4:04:09 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/13/2013 2:13:26 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/13/2013 11:24:05 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/13/2013 9:01:13 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again?

fas"cism
/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.



Are you saying that Obama is an extreme, right-win authoritarian?

Fascism is for low personal freedom and social high inequality. It runs on a nationalist form of socialism and mercantilism to run the economy... Where again is the right wing part?

You're an idiot. Ignorance is going to be the death of me.

Ad hominem. I was showing the definition of Fascism, and asking a question. Considering Fascism is on a completely different end of the political spectrum than Obama's party and ideology, I think calling him a Fascist is a bit of a stretch.

*sigh* yes I used ad hominem. Grow up, you deserved it. You have no clue what fascism is do you?

It's kind of ironic that you're telling me to grow up, erstwhile hurling pointless ad hominem because your point is indefensible. Ad hominem is childish. I have no interest in child-like insults.

Fascism is a political ideology dominated by ultra-nationalism with a corporatist economic model. It's authoritarian, and to the right of the spectrum. Liberalism, socialism, and communism are all to the left on the political spectrum of Fascism. Tell me, again, without hurling pointless ad hominem, is Obama an extreme, right wing authoritarian?

I think that he was attempting to articulate the fact that basing our political classifications on our similarities with 18th century French political parties is absurd (this is what the left-right spectrum is). It's often used as a smear tool to avoid talking about the actual nuances involved (You're on the same side as Nazis! Well you're on the same side as the Soviets!). Observe your own behavior. Someone points out similarities between Obama's positions and fascism, and your response is that they can't possible be similar because they're on opposite sides of an arbitrary spectrum based on the contrasting ideas of a dead, failed political system. This observance does nothing to change the fact that Obama is very big on opaque, militarily powerful government and very dismissive of civil liberties, and that this is a decidedly negative trait which he shares with fascists.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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2/13/2013 5:27:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 4:48:38 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/13/2013 4:04:09 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/13/2013 2:13:26 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/13/2013 11:24:05 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/13/2013 9:01:13 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:54:03 AM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again?

fas"cism
/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.



Are you saying that Obama is an extreme, right-win authoritarian?

Fascism is for low personal freedom and social high inequality. It runs on a nationalist form of socialism and mercantilism to run the economy... Where again is the right wing part?

You're an idiot. Ignorance is going to be the death of me.

Ad hominem. I was showing the definition of Fascism, and asking a question. Considering Fascism is on a completely different end of the political spectrum than Obama's party and ideology, I think calling him a Fascist is a bit of a stretch.

*sigh* yes I used ad hominem. Grow up, you deserved it. You have no clue what fascism is do you?

It's kind of ironic that you're telling me to grow up, erstwhile hurling pointless ad hominem because your point is indefensible. Ad hominem is childish. I have no interest in child-like insults.

Fascism is a political ideology dominated by ultra-nationalism with a corporatist economic model. It's authoritarian, and to the right of the spectrum. Liberalism, socialism, and communism are all to the left on the political spectrum of Fascism. Tell me, again, without hurling pointless ad hominem, is Obama an extreme, right wing authoritarian?

I think that he was attempting to articulate the fact that basing our political classifications on our similarities with 18th century French political parties is absurd (this is what the left-right spectrum is). It's often used as a smear tool to avoid talking about the actual nuances involved (You're on the same side as Nazis! Well you're on the same side as the Soviets!). Observe your own behavior. Someone points out similarities between Obama's positions and fascism, and your response is that they can't possible be similar because they're on opposite sides of an arbitrary spectrum based on the contrasting ideas of a dead, failed political system. This observance does nothing to change the fact that Obama is very big on opaque, militarily powerful government and very dismissive of civil liberties, and that this is a decidedly negative trait which he shares with fascists.

I understand, but I think the smear-tactic criticism should be reversed. Somebody else called Obama the fascist. All I did was post the definition of Fascist and allowed others to come to their own conclusion as far as that goes. Somebody else jumped in and insulted me. Now, as far as Fascism goes, I don't think it's really fair to hyperbolize the ideology in order to suit the other person's agenda. That being said, I didn't call anybody anything. Fascism, as far as the political spectrum goes, is to the right. That doesn't mean Republicans are Fascists (I wouldn't hyperbolize like that), just like I'd expect people to take elements of the Democratic Party and align it with Communism (as both were supposed be the party of worker's rights). Obama may have his share of civil liberty violations (which is really unfair to point to civil liberties as an element of Fascism tied to Liberalism since virtually all political ideologies have been negative on civil liberties to some degree), but he's very far from Fascist by the very definition of what a Fascist is. His ideology doesn't match up. His economic policy doesn't match up. Once again, though, I'm not the one laying the ad hominem or the criticism.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/13/2013 6:32:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 5:27:22 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/13/2013 4:48:38 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I think that he was attempting to articulate the fact that basing our political classifications on our similarities with 18th century French political parties is absurd (this is what the left-right spectrum is). It's often used as a smear tool to avoid talking about the actual nuances involved (You're on the same side as Nazis! Well you're on the same side as the Soviets!). Observe your own behavior. Someone points out similarities between Obama's positions and fascism, and your response is that they can't possible be similar because they're on opposite sides of an arbitrary spectrum based on the contrasting ideas of a dead, failed political system. This observance does nothing to change the fact that Obama is very big on opaque, militarily powerful government and very dismissive of civil liberties, and that this is a decidedly negative trait which he shares with fascists.

I understand, but I think the smear-tactic criticism should be reversed. Somebody else called Obama the fascist. All I did was post the definition of Fascist and allowed others to come to their own conclusion as far as that goes. Somebody else jumped in and insulted me. Now, as far as Fascism goes, I don't think it's really fair to hyperbolize the ideology in order to suit the other person's agenda. That being said, I didn't call anybody anything. Fascism, as far as the political spectrum goes, is to the right. That doesn't mean Republicans are Fascists (I wouldn't hyperbolize like that), just like I'd expect people to take elements of the Democratic Party and align it with Communism (as both were supposed be the party of worker's rights). Obama may have his share of civil liberty violations (which is really unfair to point to civil liberties as an element of Fascism tied to Liberalism since virtually all political ideologies have been negative on civil liberties to some degree), but he's very far from Fascist by the very definition of what a Fascist is. His ideology doesn't match up. His economic policy doesn't match up. Once again, though, I'm not the one laying the ad hominem or the criticism.

I think it's why the original responder, albeit a bit coarsely, advised away from referencing the left-right spectrum: it leads to impasses like this one. It's more effective to point out that calling Obama a fascist is hyperbolic (to put it lightly). I would actually agree with you completely that he's not a fascist, just that he has fascistic tendencies in the sphere of civil liberties (more denial of FOIA requests than Bush, the NDAA, drone warfare abuses, etc.) Points like that can be argued quite effectively. But when some libertarians see the left-right spectrum it's like blood in the water, and it derails the entire conversation, because it's an incredibly easy position to attack. I think that it also rubs people who are socially and economically libertarian the wrong way because it lumps them in with neoconservatives, which they tend to disagree with on just about every possible issue.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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2/14/2013 2:22:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

HELL NO! nac
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Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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2/14/2013 3:56:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again? That sucks. :P But yeah, that would be a tragedy because all Obama has done is slowly strangle our civil liberties, give guns to drug cartels, give arms to terrorists in Egypt, and bomb civilians in 2 countries we are not even at war with.

...
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/14/2013 10:41:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/14/2013 3:56:29 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:40:26 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:07:18 AM, Aned wrote:
The Constitution needs a new amendment that would allow Obama to run for president again in 2016!

You want a fascist for president again? That sucks. :P But yeah, that would be a tragedy because all Obama has done is slowly strangle our civil liberties, give guns to drug cartels, give arms to terrorists in Egypt, and bomb civilians in 2 countries we are not even at war with.

...



Maddow is as bad as anyone on the right. The fact is that guns were allowed to be given to drug cartels under the Obama administration.
Maddow makes it sound like it was started under Bush but ended by Obama when in reality Fast and Furious occurred entirely under Obama's presidency and only ended when the story broke.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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2/14/2013 5:00:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/14/2013 10:41:53 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Maddow makes it sound like it was started under Bush but ended by Obama when in :reality Fast and Furious occurred entirely under Obama's presidency and only ended :when the story broke.


It actually did start under Bush, just under a different name. It was called Operation Wide Receiver. :P
lewis20
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2/14/2013 5:07:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/14/2013 5:00:58 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/14/2013 10:41:53 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Maddow makes it sound like it was started under Bush but ended by Obama when in :reality Fast and Furious occurred entirely under Obama's presidency and only ended :when the story broke.


It actually did start under Bush, just under a different name. It was called Operation Wide Receiver. :P

Right, the umbrella gun running was started under Bush but the particular fast and furious program that blew up was entirely under Obama.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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2/14/2013 5:15:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/14/2013 5:07:52 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/14/2013 5:00:58 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 2/14/2013 10:41:53 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Maddow makes it sound like it was started under Bush but ended by Obama when in :reality Fast and Furious occurred entirely under Obama's presidency and only ended :when the story broke.


It actually did start under Bush, just under a different name. It was called Operation Wide Receiver. :P

Right, the umbrella gun running was started under Bush but the particular fast and furious program that blew up was entirely under Obama.

You kind of missed the point. :/