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Getting a Resolution On The Ballot

mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/2/2009 2:16:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I was wondering if any of you knew anything about how to go about getting a resolution on a ballot.

And specifically if you think you, and people generally, would support this kind of legislation:

Civil servants, be they Representatives, postmen, and all those in between, who are found to have knowingly commit unconstitutional acts, be charged as criminals, and serve a sentence of not less than one day in prison.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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11/2/2009 3:01:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
What type of resolution are you asking about? A referendum? A legislative amendment?

Are you asking about a public initiative or a legislative initiative?

As for support of that one: No. I would not support it.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/2/2009 3:13:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/2/2009 3:01:18 PM, JBlake wrote:
What type of resolution are you asking about? A referendum? A legislative amendment?

Are you asking about a public initiative or a legislative initiative?

I'm not sure as to what the term might be, but a law passed through direct democracy. Kind of like the infamous prop 8.

As for support of that one: No. I would not support it.

Might I ask why?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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11/2/2009 3:36:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
That would be a public initiative. There are a few different types, and it depends on what state you live in on how you get one on the ballot:
Direct Initiative: The issue in question goes directly to the ballot upon successful completion of the Ballot Initiative requirements.
Indirect Initiative: The issue goes to the legislature for consideration. If the legislature does not act, then the issue goes to the ballot.
Legislative Referendum: Laws and other measures originating in the legislature are referred to voters.
Popular Referendum: The public, by petition, can force a popular vote on a law already passed by the legislature
http://www.ncsl.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

These are all on the state level, however.

There is no such process on the national level, unfortunately. The only way to make such a change as you propose is through an amendment to the constitution. This can only be done by first, a vote in the national legislature, then ratification by 3/4 of the states.

Your options, then, are to attempt to get your state to pass a resolution that recommends that the constitution be amended. If it passes in your state (it won't) then you hope that other states respond in kind (they won't), or you can actively campaign in those states to get someone to propose a similar resolution. THEN, you hope that the U.S. congress cares enough to take the recommendation and propose an amendment (they won't).

Or, you could petition your representatives and ask them to propose such an amendment (they won't). If they won't, you can assemble a large number of voters in his/her district and conduct a sustained effort to get him/her to propose the amendment.

Finally, you could run for election to national office (that is to say, U.S. House of Representatives, Senate, Presidency) on the platform of proposing this amendment. Then if elected (you won't be), you can propose the amendment yourself. Then you must get enough support among your fellow congressmen to get the resolution out of committee (you won't) and then passed (you won't).
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/2/2009 3:38:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
You live in New York State.

http://www.iandrinstitute.org...

No initiatives may be placed on the ballot in New York State.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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11/2/2009 3:41:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/2/2009 2:16:03 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Civil servants, be they Representatives, postmen, and all those in between, who are found to have knowingly commit unconstitutional acts, be charged as criminals, and serve a sentence of not less than one day in prison.

I don't support such a referendum because there are already means to protect against unconstitutional acts (balance of powers, impeachment, &ct.). Depending on the unconstitutional act, they can already be held criminally responsible. They are usually not. This is due more to politics than a lack of statutory record.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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11/2/2009 3:42:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/2/2009 3:38:00 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
You live in New York State.

http://www.iandrinstitute.org...

No initiatives may be placed on the ballot in New York State.

You beat me to it. Though I think he was asking about a national initiative or referendum more than for his own state.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/2/2009 4:03:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Thank you much Jblake, RagnarR.

Jblake, isn't violating the constitution criminal? If the current system doesn't usually punish such criminal acts, don't you think we should make it, at least for consistency's sake, if not the victims?
Or is it that you think that politics and govt. needs some wiggle room on such issues to operate freely.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/2/2009 4:08:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/2/2009 4:03:58 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Thank you much Jblake, RagnarR.

Jblake, isn't violating the constitution criminal?
I don't think so in general, but:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu...
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
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11/2/2009 4:10:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Jblake:
(you won't), (they won't), (you won't)

And thanks for the dose of reality.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/2/2009 4:12:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Let's say someone violated the general welfare clause, supposedly.

Do you want the courts deciding what the general welfare is?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/2/2009 4:14:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Ragnar:
I just thought on the grounds of the constitution being law and a crime being breaking the law. But I think you came up with a nice piece of legislation, *ten years ;)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/2/2009 4:17:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
no, thats why I said knowingly. Though that lets practically everyone slip through the cracks, it would make the worst offending legislators defend themselves in a public forum, claiming either ridiculous understanding of the constitution, or professing a lack of knowledge on the matter.

And I think it would act as a pretty good detterent.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."