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Communism Works!

BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/3/2013 2:57:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Most people don't understand communism. The people who claim to understand communism are typically just capitalist apologists who have been brainwashed by Mccarthyism.

In reality, communism works quite well. Capitalists say that communism doesn't work in practice. But, do they realize that many primitive societies (tribes) lived in communal societies?

We all know that primitive societies were workers paradises. So, to all those capitalists who say communism doesn't work in practice, please explain how native American tribes achieved 30 year life expectancies and hunting tools in communal societies?

Okay, so we know that the extremely high standards of living achieved by primitive communal societies proves that communism would work in the modern world. But, then those capitalists will go and say that all the modern experiments in communism or collectivism have ended badly. Again, it is just Mccarthy's brainwashing.

First off, communism is stateless. We should all know this. You see, what happens with communism is that the state runs the means of production and molds us into a communist society and then withers away and we then have a utopian workers paradise.

But, in all the modern societies that claim to be communist, the state does take over the means of production and try to mold a communist society but it is miserable and the state does not wither away. It clearly states in any communist literature that communism will be a sateless paradise.

Capitalists will say that this is because, in practice, the state doesn't actually wither away and the economic realities make communism (at this large scale) inevitably fail. But, they just don't understand Marx. Marx said that it would be a stateless paradise.

So, the fact that all the modern experiments in "communism" have seemingly failed doesn't show that communism doesn't work. It just shows that they did communism the wrong way.

Every single country that has attempted communism in the modern world has made the exact same mistakes with regards to communism. It certainly isn't possible that communism just leads to bad outcomes because Marx said it would be a paradise.

Just like the time I told my friends I could fly on my own. When I tried repeatedly and failed, they all said I couldn't fly. But, what they didn't realize was that I could fly, I just wasn't flying the right way.

And, for all those "market fundamentalists" who claim innovation can't happen under communism, just look at all the Soviet innovations. Someone on these forums pointed out the glorious satellites that the Soviets developed. It was well worth the millions that died from starvation.

We need to stop being corrupted by capitalist and Mccarthyistic propaganda. Communist societies of any kind don't need propaganda, they work on their own merit. The Soviets and Chinese didn't do it perfectly. But, they were better than the USA's capitalism. The only difference is that the Soviets and Chinese didn't use propaganda like the USA capitalists did.
ZakYoungTheLibertarian
Posts: 253
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3/3/2013 3:00:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Are you in favour of privatizing the roads and courts?

If not, you clearly do think communism works (your poorly executed attempt at satire notwithstanding); in fact, you think it works in the most important industries at all. Surely the production of fizzy-pops and country music cds is irrelevant when compared to infrastructure or justice or policing?
BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/3/2013 3:04:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 3:00:38 AM, ZakYoungTheLibertarian wrote:
Are you in favour of privatizing the roads and courts?

If not, you clearly do think communism works (your poorly executed attempt at satire notwithstanding); in fact, you think it works in the most important industries at all. Surely the production of fizzy-pops and country music cds is irrelevant when compared to infrastructure or justice or policing?

Zak, please get laid.
BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/3/2013 3:06:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 3:04:00 AM, BigRat wrote:
At 3/3/2013 3:00:38 AM, ZakYoungTheLibertarian wrote:
Are you in favour of privatizing the roads and courts?

If not, you clearly do think communism works (your poorly executed attempt at satire notwithstanding); in fact, you think it works in the most important industries at all. Surely the production of fizzy-pops and country music cds is irrelevant when compared to infrastructure or justice or policing?


Zak, please get laid.

Or, maybe the state has a monopoly on the vagina near you. In that case, there are major barriers to entry caused by state intervention and your passionate libertarianism is understandable.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/3/2013 4:55:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Cute satire, but communism does work. Think of a family unit, it is hardly capitalist.

With more and more people, communism starts to unravel, as there is more and more likely to be those that contribute less, by choice or ability, and those that resent them.
Plus, there is the pitfall of thinking someone else will do something, if you don't want to. I think the phrase goes: a courtyard owned by all is raked by none.
My work here is, finally, done.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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3/3/2013 7:13:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org...
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/3/2013 7:29:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 2:57:17 AM, BigRat wrote:
Most people don't understand communism. The people who claim to understand communism are typically just capitalist apologists who have been brainwashed by Mccarthyism.

In reality, communism works quite well. Capitalists say that communism doesn't work in practice. But, do they realize that many primitive societies (tribes) lived in communal societies?

We all know that primitive societies were workers paradises. So, to all those capitalists who say communism doesn't work in practice, please explain how native American tribes achieved 30 year life expectancies and hunting tools in communal societies?

Okay, so we know that the extremely high standards of living achieved by primitive communal societies proves that communism would work in the modern world. But, then those capitalists will go and say that all the modern experiments in communism or collectivism have ended badly. Again, it is just Mccarthy's brainwashing.

First off, communism is stateless. We should all know this. You see, what happens with communism is that the state runs the means of production and molds us into a communist society and then withers away and we then have a utopian workers paradise.

But, in all the modern societies that claim to be communist, the state does take over the means of production and try to mold a communist society but it is miserable and the state does not wither away. It clearly states in any communist literature that communism will be a sateless paradise.

Capitalists will say that this is because, in practice, the state doesn't actually wither away and the economic realities make communism (at this large scale) inevitably fail. But, they just don't understand Marx. Marx said that it would be a stateless paradise.

So, the fact that all the modern experiments in "communism" have seemingly failed doesn't show that communism doesn't work. It just shows that they did communism the wrong way.

Every single country that has attempted communism in the modern world has made the exact same mistakes with regards to communism. It certainly isn't possible that communism just leads to bad outcomes because Marx said it would be a paradise.

Just like the time I told my friends I could fly on my own. When I tried repeatedly and failed, they all said I couldn't fly. But, what they didn't realize was that I could fly, I just wasn't flying the right way.

And, for all those "market fundamentalists" who claim innovation can't happen under communism, just look at all the Soviet innovations. Someone on these forums pointed out the glorious satellites that the Soviets developed. It was well worth the millions that died from starvation.

We need to stop being corrupted by capitalist and Mccarthyistic propaganda. Communist societies of any kind don't need propaganda, they work on their own merit. The Soviets and Chinese didn't do it perfectly. But, they were better than the USA's capitalism. The only difference is that the Soviets and Chinese didn't use propaganda like the USA capitalists did.

Dirty bourgeois capitalists, giving people the opportunity to determine their own future, people are too stupid to determine their own future and compete on the free market!
TrasguTravieso
Posts: 93
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3/3/2013 7:29:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 2:57:17 AM, BigRat wrote
The only difference is that the Soviets and Chinese didn't use propaganda like the USA capitalists did.

Right...

https://www.google.com...

https://www.google.com...
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/3/2013 7:31:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:29:16 AM, TrasguTravieso wrote:
At 3/3/2013 2:57:17 AM, BigRat wrote
The only difference is that the Soviets and Chinese didn't use propaganda like the USA capitalists did.

Right...

https://www.google.com...

https://www.google.com...

That was all satirical, y'know that right?
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/3/2013 7:37:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:34:37 AM, TrasguTravieso wrote:
Ah, satire. That'll do it.

It took me to realize it too, but when he said the part about how a few satellites were worth millions dying of starvation, I got it, lol.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/3/2013 7:37:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:37:28 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/3/2013 7:34:37 AM, TrasguTravieso wrote:
Ah, satire. That'll do it.

It took me to realize it too, but when he said the part about how a few satellites were worth millions dying of starvation, I got it, lol.

*it took me a min to realize it too*
TrasguTravieso
Posts: 93
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3/3/2013 7:39:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:37:28 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

It took me to realize it too, but when he said the part about how a few satellites were worth millions dying of starvation, I got it, lol.

I have met too many Marxists in my time in College to discount human stupidity justifying statements like that. A quick look at the profile would have done it, though.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/3/2013 7:41:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:39:42 AM, TrasguTravieso wrote:
At 3/3/2013 7:37:28 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

It took me to realize it too, but when he said the part about how a few satellites were worth millions dying of starvation, I got it, lol.

I have met too many Marxists in my time in College to discount human stupidity justifying statements like that. A quick look at the profile would have done it, though.

Ah, college, I'm still in high school, but I heard about college.

I'll probably go to Adrian College up in Michigan to avoid the leftist bias that most universities have.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/3/2013 7:45:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:41:46 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/3/2013 7:39:42 AM, TrasguTravieso wrote:
At 3/3/2013 7:37:28 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

It took me to realize it too, but when he said the part about how a few satellites were worth millions dying of starvation, I got it, lol.

I have met too many Marxists in my time in College to discount human stupidity justifying statements like that. A quick look at the profile would have done it, though.

Ah, college, I'm still in high school, but I heard about college.

I'll probably go to Adrian College up in Michigan to avoid the leftist bias that most universities have.

I very well might also go to Hillsdale College.
TrasguTravieso
Posts: 93
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3/3/2013 8:11:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:41:46 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
I'll probably go to Adrian College up in Michigan to avoid the leftist bias that most universities have.

And miss all the fun?
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/3/2013 9:36:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:13:14 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Most interesting.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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3/3/2013 10:45:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Please tell me how a large scale communist society would be able to efficiently allocate resources.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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3/3/2013 12:47:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 2:57:17 AM, BigRat wrote:
Most people don't understand communism. The people who claim to understand communism are typically just capitalist apologists who have been brainwashed by Mccarthyism.

In reality, communism works quite well. Capitalists say that communism doesn't work in practice. But, do they realize that many primitive societies (tribes) lived in communal societies?

Working from dawn tilll dusk just to survive, and often practicing canibalism out of necessity.... Sounds like a great soceity.

We all know that primitive societies were workers paradises.
No they were not. They were a paradise for the lazzy. The people who actually worked had little to show for their efforts, and they worked from dawn til dusk.
So, to all those capitalists who say communism doesn't work in practice, please explain how native American tribes achieved 30 year life expectancies
You want to go back to a 30 year life expectancy???
and hunting tools in communal societies?

You want to go back to stone tools? Native Americans used very primitive tools before Capitalists, such as the Plymouth Company and the Virginia Company, arrived and traded with them.
They used tools made of wood, rock, bone, and other animal parts.
Okay, so we know that the extremely high standards of living
It was a low standard of living.
achieved by primitive communal societies proves that communism would work in the modern world.
No, it would not work in the modern world. That is why Karl Marx said that each country would would first need to adopt a dictatorship which would slowly impose communism on it's people through acts of tyranny, and that only after the whole world adopted these regeimes the state would lose it's purpose and would wither away.

But, then those capitalists will go and say that all the modern experiments in communism or collectivism have ended badly. Again, it is just Mccarthy's brainwashing.

No, MyCcarthy died in 1957, while the experiments failed later on in history.

First off, communism is stateless.
Only after the entire would becomes communist. Read the manifesto.
We should all know this. You see, what happens with communism is that the state runs the means of production and molds us into a communist society and then withers away and we then have a utopian workers paradise.

With lower standards of living. Also, the state only withers away after the entire world becomes communist.
But, in all the modern societies that claim to be communist, the state does take over the means of production and try to mold a communist society but it is miserable and the state does not wither away.
Because the entire world didn't convert to communism.
It clearly states in any communist literature that communism will be a sateless paradise.

After the entire world becomes communist; prior to that, the state enforces communism with an iron fist.
Capitalists will say that this is because, in practice, the state doesn't actually wither away and the economic realities make communism (at this large scale) inevitably fail. But, they just don't understand Marx. Marx said that it would be a stateless paradise.

"The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state, i.e., of the proletariat organized as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionizing the mode of production.

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class; if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class. "
http://www.anu.edu.au...
So, the fact that all the modern experiments in "communism" have seemingly failed doesn't show that communism doesn't work. It just shows that they did communism the wrong way.

They did it the communist way and it failed.
Every single country that has attempted communism in the modern world has made the exact same mistakes with regards to communism. It certainly isn't possible that communism just leads to bad outcomes because Marx said it would be a paradise.

Just like the time I told my friends I could fly on my own. When I tried repeatedly and failed, they all said I couldn't fly. But, what they didn't realize was that I could fly, I just wasn't flying the right way.

You think you can fly? LOL
And, for all those "market fundamentalists" who claim innovation can't happen under communism, just look at all the Soviet innovations. Someone on these forums pointed out the glorious satellites that the Soviets developed. It was well worth the millions that died from starvation.

You think a satellites > millions of lives? Well now we see which ideology is morally superior. The US managed to launch satellites without starving millions of people.
We need to stop being corrupted by capitalist and Mccarthyistic propaganda. Communist societies of any kind don't need propaganda, they work on their own merit. The Soviets and Chinese didn't do it perfectly. But, they were better than the USA's capitalism. The only difference is that the Soviets and Chinese didn't use propaganda like the USA capitalists did.
They did too
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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3/3/2013 12:59:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I started to get suspicious that this was satirical after the part about a 30-year lifespan being a great accomplishment.

You mean I can enjoy all the benefits of living in tribal communism, and all I have to give up is 65% of my longevity? Sign me up!
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/3/2013 3:45:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:29:13 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

Dirty bourgeois capitalists, giving people the opportunity to determine their own future,

Hmm, this is how you see capitalists, as liberators. And you hold me in contempt for being absurdly out of touch with empirical reality!

people are too stupid to determine their own future and compete on the free market!

You libertarian Lord Haw-Haws of capitalism certainly have a quite unlovely opinion of your fellow working-class man and woman. Clearly viewing the proletariat as a horde of inferior specimens and identifying with the allegedly superior folks who comprise the plutocracy juices up your egos and is in large measure what biases your cognitive orientation in the direction of being market fundamentalists. But although this is quite obvious to anyone not in your ideological camp you continue to expect to be argued with as if you're merely good-faith adherents of a logical and legitimate point of view. Rubbish, you're rationalizers of an ethically irrational system who are utterly psychologically motivated. Your thinking, that is, is most certainly not intellectually respectable and richly deserves to be critiqued and psychoanalyzed. Mm-hmm, perhaps this will eventually bring some of you out of your false consciousness.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/3/2013 8:22:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 3:45:34 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/3/2013 7:29:13 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

Dirty bourgeois capitalists, giving people the opportunity to determine their own future,

Hmm, this is how you see capitalists, as liberators. And you hold me in contempt for being absurdly out of touch with empirical reality!

Both systems are flawed by nature, one is just even more flawed by claiming people are too ignorant to compete against their fellow man.

people are too stupid to determine their own future and compete on the free market!

You libertarian Lord Haw-Haws of capitalism certainly have a quite unlovely opinion of your fellow working-class man and woman. Clearly viewing the proletariat as a horde of inferior specimens and identifying with the allegedly superior folks who comprise the plutocracy juices up your egos and is in large measure what biases your cognitive orientation in the direction of being market fundamentalists. But although this is quite obvious to anyone not in your ideological camp you continue to expect to be argued with as if you're merely good-faith adherents of a logical and legitimate point of view. Rubbish, you're rationalizers of an ethically irrational system who are utterly psychologically motivated. Your thinking, that is, is most certainly not intellectually respectable and richly deserves to be critiqued and psychoanalyzed. Mm-hmm, perhaps this will eventually bring some of you out of your false consciousness.

So, you think you can change my mind by claiming my views are in no way or form legitimate, and are not worth your time at all? See, you will never change your mind on your political views, because everyone who disagrees with you must be a vile, psycho-scumbag (by your logic). I think communism will never realistically work, I despise what it has done to humanity, but I still am always open to other's ideas and opinions, regardless how idiotic I think they are.

Also, you obviously caught on to the sarcasm of the first part, not the second part. I was being sarcastic when I said that people were too dumb to compete on the free market, I was claiming that this is what communists think. Obviously to you and your lot of marxists, it is inhumane to compete, and regardless of skill and work ethic, all should be payed equally. This defies the very human nature of competitiveness, something that is prevalent in all, some more than others, but all are competitive by nature, you defy this very prevalent factor in everyone's lives by claiming you know what's best for them. You also claimed in a previous post that you were fine with communism not making it's way in to society by government and peaceful revolution, but if this did not work, you seem perfectly fine with violent revolution, even if the majority don't want your government. Talk about disregarding the views of the common man and attempting to know what's best for him/her.
BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/3/2013 10:12:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 4:55:31 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Cute satire, but communism does work. Think of a family unit, it is hardly capitalist.

With more and more people, communism starts to unravel, as there is more and more likely to be those that contribute less, by choice or ability, and those that resent them.
Plus, there is the pitfall of thinking someone else will do something, if you don't want to. I think the phrase goes: a courtyard owned by all is raked by none.

The tragedy of the commons.

When I say "communism is a failure", I obviously mean "large scale communism is a failure". We know that families, teams, and even small primitive communities can operate on a communal type structure. We also know that attempts to operate an economy with state collectivism or large scale communal experiments fail miserabily.

The modern division of labor and large scale societies are only possible with market based economies. Without markets, we would still be living like the native Amerians... which folks like Royalpaladin seem to think is ok.
BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/3/2013 10:13:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:29:13 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/3/2013 2:57:17 AM, BigRat wrote:
Most people don't understand communism. The people who claim to understand communism are typically just capitalist apologists who have been brainwashed by Mccarthyism.

In reality, communism works quite well. Capitalists say that communism doesn't work in practice. But, do they realize that many primitive societies (tribes) lived in communal societies?

We all know that primitive societies were workers paradises. So, to all those capitalists who say communism doesn't work in practice, please explain how native American tribes achieved 30 year life expectancies and hunting tools in communal societies?

Okay, so we know that the extremely high standards of living achieved by primitive communal societies proves that communism would work in the modern world. But, then those capitalists will go and say that all the modern experiments in communism or collectivism have ended badly. Again, it is just Mccarthy's brainwashing.

First off, communism is stateless. We should all know this. You see, what happens with communism is that the state runs the means of production and molds us into a communist society and then withers away and we then have a utopian workers paradise.

But, in all the modern societies that claim to be communist, the state does take over the means of production and try to mold a communist society but it is miserable and the state does not wither away. It clearly states in any communist literature that communism will be a sateless paradise.

Capitalists will say that this is because, in practice, the state doesn't actually wither away and the economic realities make communism (at this large scale) inevitably fail. But, they just don't understand Marx. Marx said that it would be a stateless paradise.

So, the fact that all the modern experiments in "communism" have seemingly failed doesn't show that communism doesn't work. It just shows that they did communism the wrong way.

Every single country that has attempted communism in the modern world has made the exact same mistakes with regards to communism. It certainly isn't possible that communism just leads to bad outcomes because Marx said it would be a paradise.

Just like the time I told my friends I could fly on my own. When I tried repeatedly and failed, they all said I couldn't fly. But, what they didn't realize was that I could fly, I just wasn't flying the right way.

And, for all those "market fundamentalists" who claim innovation can't happen under communism, just look at all the Soviet innovations. Someone on these forums pointed out the glorious satellites that the Soviets developed. It was well worth the millions that died from starvation.

We need to stop being corrupted by capitalist and Mccarthyistic propaganda. Communist societies of any kind don't need propaganda, they work on their own merit. The Soviets and Chinese didn't do it perfectly. But, they were better than the USA's capitalism. The only difference is that the Soviets and Chinese didn't use propaganda like the USA capitalists did.



Dirty bourgeois capitalists, giving people the opportunity to determine their own future, people are too stupid to determine their own future and compete on the free market!

How dare they!

Don't they know that the glorious state always knows best for every single individual!
BigRat
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3/3/2013 10:14:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 7:39:42 AM, TrasguTravieso wrote:
At 3/3/2013 7:37:28 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

It took me to realize it too, but when he said the part about how a few satellites were worth millions dying of starvation, I got it, lol.

I have met too many Marxists in my time in College to discount human stupidity justifying statements like that. A quick look at the profile would have done it, though.

Your talking to a college boy. Everything I said in this satire was something I had either heard from somebody on this forum (not to mention any names Royalpaladin) or somebody I had an argument with at college (including professors).
BigRat
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3/3/2013 10:16:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 10:45:20 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Please tell me how a large scale communist society would be able to efficiently allocate resources.

Forget reality. Reality is an invention of the bourgeoisie capitalist in order to make us think that communism isn't economically sound!
BigRat
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3/3/2013 10:17:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 12:47:40 PM, DanT wrote:

Working from dawn tilll dusk just to survive, and often practicing canibalism out of necessity.... Sounds like a great soceity.

We all know that primitive societies were workers paradises.
No they were not. They were a paradise for the lazzy. The people who actually worked had little to show for their efforts, and they worked from dawn til dusk.
So, to all those capitalists who say communism doesn't work in practice, please explain how native American tribes achieved 30 year life expectancies
You want to go back to a 30 year life expectancy???
and hunting tools in communal societies?

You want to go back to stone tools? Native Americans used very primitive tools before Capitalists, such as the Plymouth Company and the Virginia Company, arrived and traded with them.
They used tools made of wood, rock, bone, and other animal parts.
Okay, so we know that the extremely high standards of living
It was a low standard of living.
achieved by primitive communal societies proves that communism would work in the modern world.
No, it would not work in the modern world. That is why Karl Marx said that each country would would first need to adopt a dictatorship which would slowly impose communism on it's people through acts of tyranny, and that only after the whole world adopted these regeimes the state would lose it's purpose and would wither away.

But, then those capitalists will go and say that all the modern experiments in communism or collectivism have ended badly. Again, it is just Mccarthy's brainwashing.

No, MyCcarthy died in 1957, while the experiments failed later on in history.

First off, communism is stateless.
Only after the entire would becomes communist. Read the manifesto.
We should all know this. You see, what happens with communism is that the state runs the means of production and molds us into a communist society and then withers away and we then have a utopian workers paradise.

With lower standards of living. Also, the state only withers away after the entire world becomes communist.
But, in all the modern societies that claim to be communist, the state does take over the means of production and try to mold a communist society but it is miserable and the state does not wither away.
Because the entire world didn't convert to communism.
It clearly states in any communist literature that communism will be a sateless paradise.

After the entire world becomes communist; prior to that, the state enforces communism with an iron fist.
Capitalists will say that this is because, in practice, the state doesn't actually wither away and the economic realities make communism (at this large scale) inevitably fail. But, they just don't understand Marx. Marx said that it would be a stateless paradise.

"The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state, i.e., of the proletariat organized as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionizing the mode of production.

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class; if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class. "
http://www.anu.edu.au...
So, the fact that all the modern experiments in "communism" have seemingly failed doesn't show that communism doesn't work. It just shows that they did communism the wrong way.

They did it the communist way and it failed.
Every single country that has attempted communism in the modern world has made the exact same mistakes with regards to communism. It certainly isn't possible that communism just leads to bad outcomes because Marx said it would be a paradise.

Just like the time I told my friends I could fly on my own. When I tried repeatedly and failed, they all said I couldn't fly. But, what they didn't realize was that I could fly, I just wasn't flying the right way.

You think you can fly? LOL
And, for all those "market fundamentalists" who claim innovation can't happen under communism, just look at all the Soviet innovations. Someone on these forums pointed out the glorious satellites that the Soviets developed. It was well worth the millions that died from starvation.

You think a satellites > millions of lives? Well now we see which ideology is morally superior. The US managed to launch satellites without starving millions of people.
We need to stop being corrupted by capitalist and Mccarthyistic propaganda. Communist societies of any kind don't need propaganda, they work on their own merit. The Soviets and Chinese didn't do it perfectly. But, they were better than the USA's capitalism. The onl

This was actually a satire of many communists that I know.