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Obama is Not a Liberal

BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/3/2013 10:25:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I used to think that Barack Obama was a liberal (or left wing, progressive, etc.) president. However, somebody else on this forum said something that changed my mind.

A number of progressives love to talk about how centrist Obama is. ANd, on some issues, he is. Folks on the left care about ending the drug war, curbing violations of civil liberties, and haviing a less interventionist foreign policy. Barack Obama has gone in the opposite direction on all of these issues.

Now, Obama is still a far left guy when it comes to taxes, spending, and regulations. He is a true social democrat... a defender of big government in the economy.

But, unlike others on the left, he also defends big government when it comes to the military and civil liberties.

In other words, Obam is an extreme guy (even for US politics). But, he is not as extreme leftist... he is an extreme statist. The most extreme statist we have ever had for president (although Johnson, FDR, TR, and Wilson are all close).
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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3/3/2013 10:50:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Now, Obama is still a far left guy when it comes to taxes, spending, and regulations. "

He cut taxes. Like a bazillion times. Effecting 95% of Americans. And has reduced spending to the tune of $2 trillion over 10 years. If that's a left wing guy when it comes to taxes and spending, please don't show me a right wing guy.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/3/2013 11:04:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 10:50:22 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
"Now, Obama is still a far left guy when it comes to taxes, spending, and regulations. "

He cut taxes. Like a bazillion times. Effecting 95% of Americans. And has reduced spending to the tune of $2 trillion over 10 years. If that's a left wing guy when it comes to taxes and spending, please don't show me a right wing guy.

Obama hasn't reduced spending, he's reduced the increase in spending.
To any logical person a reduction in spending means spending less in year 2 than in year 1. In Washington double talk a reduction is spending is only spending 10% more in year 2 than in year 1. as oppose to 15%. It's not really a reduction in spending.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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3/3/2013 11:09:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 11:04:37 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/3/2013 10:50:22 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
"Now, Obama is still a far left guy when it comes to taxes, spending, and regulations. "

He cut taxes. Like a bazillion times. Effecting 95% of Americans. And has reduced spending to the tune of $2 trillion over 10 years. If that's a left wing guy when it comes to taxes and spending, please don't show me a right wing guy.

Obama hasn't reduced spending, he's reduced the increase in spending.
To any logical person a reduction in spending means spending less in year 2 than in year 1. In Washington double talk a reduction is spending is only spending 10% more in year 2 than in year 1. as oppose to 15%. It's not really a reduction in spending.

If he's reduced the increase in spending, then he's reduced spending. The growth rate on spending happens no matter what, and President Obama only has a 1.5% increase in the growth rate of federal spending. How do you figure that's not a reduction in spending? O_o
BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/3/2013 11:37:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 10:50:22 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
"Now, Obama is still a far left guy when it comes to taxes, spending, and regulations. "

He cut taxes. Like a bazillion times. Effecting 95% of Americans. And has reduced spending to the tune of $2 trillion over 10 years. If that's a left wing guy when it comes to taxes and spending, please don't show me a right wing guy.

He's sent out welfare checks to some people and government selected businesses and called them tax credits... classic left wing statist... just politically savvy.

And, spending has increased to a permanently higher share of GDP under Obama. The spending cuts are all smoke and mirrors. Looking at the Obama budget, he has us at a permanently higher share of federal spending of GDP.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/3/2013 11:40:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 11:09:27 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 3/3/2013 11:04:37 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/3/2013 10:50:22 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
"Now, Obama is still a far left guy when it comes to taxes, spending, and regulations. "

He cut taxes. Like a bazillion times. Effecting 95% of Americans. And has reduced spending to the tune of $2 trillion over 10 years. If that's a left wing guy when it comes to taxes and spending, please don't show me a right wing guy.

Obama hasn't reduced spending, he's reduced the increase in spending.
To any logical person a reduction in spending means spending less in year 2 than in year 1. In Washington double talk a reduction is spending is only spending 10% more in year 2 than in year 1. as oppose to 15%. It's not really a reduction in spending.

If he's reduced the increase in spending, then he's reduced spending. The growth rate on spending happens no matter what, and President Obama only has a 1.5% increase in the growth rate of federal spending. How do you figure that's not a reduction in spending? O_o

I spend 100 dollars this year
i spend 95 dollars next year
I've reduced my spending.

I spend 100 dollars this year
I spend 105 dollars next year
I've not reduced my spending.

I know according to the doublespeak of Washing what you're describing is a spending 'cut' but in the real world it's not an actual cut.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/3/2013 11:56:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
When progressives say "Obama has cut 2 Trillion $", they really have no idea what they are saying.

To add to Lewis's analogy, it is even worse than he says.

They admin makes absolutely ridiculous astronomical predictions as to how high spending goes and then propose slighty smaller increases int heir own budget to make it look like they are cuttting spending.

In other words, spending is $100 today. They propose doubling it tommorrow to $200. But, then they say that they are actually cutting spenidng because they are usng a baseline that incresases spending to $250.

It is a disgusting trick that is used to disguse the radical statism of this administration (and past administrations). It is amazing how progressives are like sheep who believe anything their leaders tell them.
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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3/4/2013 4:48:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 11:40:39 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I know according to the doublespeak of Washing what you're describing is a spending 'cut' but in the real world it's not an actual cut.

So you're saying he's reduced the growth of spending to the tune of $2 trillion? This doesn't constitute as a spending cut, despite the fact that it saves $2 trillion in what would have otherwise been spent?
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/4/2013 6:48:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/3/2013 10:50:22 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
"Now, Obama is still a far left guy when it comes to taxes, spending, and regulations. "

He cut taxes. Like a bazillion times. Effecting 95% of Americans. And has reduced spending to the tune of $2 trillion over 10 years. If that's a left wing guy when it comes to taxes and spending, please don't show me a right wing guy.

He has only extended tax rates.

However, Obama *temporarily* reduced payroll taxes, which he deserves some credit from. But they lapsed, so there goes my approval, which is basically of no value.

Reducing the deficit is not enough. Balance the budget! Liberals can do it. Be pragmatic. Compromise.

Sell off federal lands, raise the retirement ages for entitlement programs (and/or partially personalize entitlements), and reduce corporate welfare and defense spending. In exchange, we can raise tax revenues through economic growth and through cutting tax credits and loopholes. Both sides get something they want.

Come on already. I want Obama to push forth a real compromise package.

Obama is a liberal though. He is not a moderate. He is not a crazy left winger like many people assert. Obama is a smart guy, he just needs to get working.

Besides, a smaller increase in spending is still an increase in spending.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/4/2013 6:56:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/4/2013 4:48:06 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 3/3/2013 11:40:39 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I know according to the doublespeak of Washing what you're describing is a spending 'cut' but in the real world it's not an actual cut.

So you're saying he's reduced the growth of spending to the tune of $2 trillion? This doesn't constitute as a spending cut, despite the fact that it saves $2 trillion in what would have otherwise been spent?

I'm saying there is no future budget set in stone, you could say he's cut 100 trillion from a non-existent 100 trillion future increase.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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3/4/2013 7:07:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/4/2013 6:56:56 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/4/2013 4:48:06 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 3/3/2013 11:40:39 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I know according to the doublespeak of Washing what you're describing is a spending 'cut' but in the real world it's not an actual cut.

So you're saying he's reduced the growth of spending to the tune of $2 trillion? This doesn't constitute as a spending cut, despite the fact that it saves $2 trillion in what would have otherwise been spent?

I'm saying there is no future budget set in stone, you could say he's cut 100 trillion from a non-existent 100 trillion future increase.

I'd like to see people defend the idea of "base-line borrowing"

I mean let's get real, it's not the spending that's going to do us in, it is the borrowing.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/4/2013 7:20:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Obama is a Progressive to the core.

Carbon Tax
Anti-gun
Pro-war
Pro racial division
Pro gay marriage
Pro ecofascism
Pro globalism
Pro healthcare mandate
Pro Agenda 21
Prints money through the roof
Corporate welfare
Welfare State
Nanny state
Pro minimum wage
Pro insolvent social security
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/4/2013 7:30:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/4/2013 7:20:13 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Obama is a Progressive to the core.

Carbon Tax

More supportive of cap and trade.

Anti-gun

Only on some semi auto assault weapons.

Pro-war

True. But liberals in general oppose war. At least the informed ones (this is in no way supposed to be offensive against liberals who are pro war for some reason).

Pro racial division

Supports affirmative action, which is liberal.

Pro gay marriage

True.

Pro ecofascism

No, he just supports the flawed energy subsidy programs. Those are domestic corporate welfare programs good sir.

Pro globalism

Opposed NAFTA.

Pro healthcare mandate

Yes. Liberals support single payer more though.

Pro Agenda 21

No clue.

Prints money through the roof

Well yes, most people unfortunately support this.

Corporate welfare

The vast majority of politicians support this. It is not exclusive for liberals.

Welfare State

True.

Nanny state

Unproven.

Pro minimum wage

True.

Pro insolvent social security

Okay. As I said, Obama is a pro war liberal. But he sees the need for corporate tax reform, and the need for, um, understands that tax hikes hurt the economy to a degree. That's why he agreed to extend them in 2010.

Obama realizes the need to improve education with more charter schools.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/4/2013 10:29:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/4/2013 4:48:06 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 3/3/2013 11:40:39 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I know according to the doublespeak of Washing what you're describing is a spending 'cut' but in the real world it's not an actual cut.

So you're saying he's reduced the growth of spending to the tune of $2 trillion? This doesn't constitute as a spending cut, despite the fact that it saves $2 trillion in what would have otherwise been spent?

What Obama is doing is making up ridiculous amounts that he says "would have otherwise been spent" and then proposing increasing spending by slightly less.

In reality, Obama is massively increasing spending. But, he can say that he is "reducign spenidng".

Obama is brilliant in that he has found a way to massively increase the size and scope of the state while, rhetorically, claiming to have cut spending and taxes.

His use of targeted tax credits and budget gimmicks are both brilliant and disgusting to anyone who knows better.