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List of Things Libertarians Believe In

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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3/8/2013 12:35:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
All authority figures are good unless they are called "the government".
Drugs are good.
Social security is bad.
Federal government is bad, State government is good.
Pedophilia is good.
Puppy mills are important facets of the American economy.
Guns are totally good, unless used by the government and its contractors.
Homosexuality is good but gay marriage is not good because it'll be legalized by the evil, nasty government.
The death penalty is bad (but only if it's carried out by the government)
The free market is the ultimate good.
People who say they are conservative but are really Republicans are "theocratic" liars.
People who say they are liberal but are really Democrats are "socialist" liars.
Privatization is good.
Unions are bad.
Smoking is good. Tobacco companies are friends.
Speculation is good. Question everything! That Newton guy couldn't have gotten everything right!
Ayn Rand is God (though she hated libertarians, but hey, who doesn't?)
Believe that Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a bloodthirsty tyrant but Calvin Coolidge was God.
Somalia is the best country on earth
The mailman is a government employee and must be gunned down with an AK-47 for setting foot on your property.
Ron Paul is god, Bob Barr is a fake libertarian fuckwit.
Wearing seatbelts is an affront to personal liberty!
Paying taxes is a sin, unless those taxes go in to making video games like America's Army.
Agnosticism is good because religions and atheism are too altruistic and therefore hamper capitalism.
The Democrats and Republicans don't have our best interest at heart, but conglomerates do!
The only honorable way to die is in a shootout with the cops.
Paying taxes to the government is bad. Paying money to utility companies is sexy. (note: Taxpayer->Govt->Cmpny vs. Taxpayer->Cmpny)
Traffic lights are bad because they're social engineering.
Health inspectors are bad because they allow people who are too stupid and lazy to investigate every restaurant and store they go to to survive.
Worship capitalism as the only freedom-loving philosophy but refuse to pay for stuff, because open source is the ONLY way!
No business would ever desire increased government power (unless they already had it). Halliburton who?
Police do not have the right to stop a parent from killing their kid, but the cops need to be involved when a baby boy is getting circumcised!
Outlawing spam e-mail is a grave threat to liberty.
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are infallible, but amendments are bad (especially the 16th, but also other ones that give voting power to citizens).
Democracy is evil because America is only a republic! That's why we don't vote for state representatives, and instead have a state representative assigned to each state with no input from its residents. Because that'd be a democratic republic, and that's bad!
The best way to respect individuality is to let those who are useless to society starve to death.
If you cast a shadow on someone else's lawn, you're trespassing.
If a plane flies over your house, they're trespassing. (Seriously, look it up).
It's okay to eat babies so long as they're your own kids.
Taxation is theft. Charging rent is not.
The genius of the free market is that both the rich and poor get the choice of paying for expensive health care or dying.
You must remain perfectly silent any time someone else is nearby because forcing someone else's eardrums to vibrate violates the non-aggression principle.
Price gouging and monopolies are awesome! Don't like it? Then move to Russia, you commie!... even though Russia has the highest population of millionaires.
Government sucks! ...Except when they're using their resources to protect my personal property, which THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BTW.
The Federal Reserve cannot be trusted to run a currency but some libertarian pothead called Bernard von NotHaus, the High Priest of "Free Marijuana Church of Honolulu" can. (Seriously.)
Laws against statutory rape aren't necessary - there's nothing creepy at all about some dirty old man f*cking a 13-year-old.
New Hampshire will become Heaven on Earth if enough libertarians move there.
Corporatism is evil... but so is government intervention!
It is mandatory that all libertarians jack off to pictures of Jew and/or Jew on a regular basis in order to remain healthy.
Herbert Hoover was a socialist.
Economic liberalism is great because anyone can become rich if they work hard. What are monopolies and monopsonies?
Critiques of Libertarianism are inherently invalid but conspiracy theories are legit.
The Industrial Revolution created utopias
Third-world countries should be allowed to have child labor because it accelerates societal development.
Socialism came out of nowhere one day.
Property, and the right thereto, are first-order realities and not social constructs at all.
Charity and selflessness are universally hailed as virtues. Therefore, Altruism is for sheeple!
END THE FED! It doesn't matter that the idea of a centralized bank was founded by the Founding Fathers and supported by the precursor to the Republican Party (known as the Federalists), or that most first world countries have a centralized bank.
End Social Security! People who are unemployed are just lazy! ...What? You can't work because you were hurt on the job? LOL SUX 2 B U!!1
Borders are stupid. Companies should be able to hire illegal immigrants so they don't have to pay minimum wage.
Believe business' rights trump people's rights. [1]
There are only two political philosophies: pro-freedom (libertarianism) and pro-slavery (non-libertarianism).
Make fun of liberals for worshiping Obama and the mantra of "Hope" and "Change", all the while worshiping Ron Paul and shouting "RON PAUL R3VOLUTION!".
Believe all the founding fathers agreed on everything and were of one political philosophy: libertarianism, of course!
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/8/2013 2:49:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm very confused. I thought you were a libertarian, Wallstreetatheist.

Regardless, it is easy to make fun another political philosophy by pointing out blatantly obvious inconsistencies. Still, I would say standard libertarianism is the least inconsistent and the most in line with reality.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
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3/8/2013 2:57:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 12:35:16 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
All authority figures are good unless they are called "the government".
Drugs are good.
Social security is bad.
Federal government is bad, State government is good.
Pedophilia is good.
Puppy mills are important facets of the American economy.
Guns are totally good, unless used by the government and its contractors.
Homosexuality is good but gay marriage is not good because it'll be legalized by the evil, nasty government.
The death penalty is bad (but only if it's carried out by the government)
The free market is the ultimate good.
People who say they are conservative but are really Republicans are "theocratic" liars.
People who say they are liberal but are really Democrats are "socialist" liars.
Privatization is good.
Unions are bad.
Smoking is good. Tobacco companies are friends.
Speculation is good. Question everything! That Newton guy couldn't have gotten everything right!
Ayn Rand is God (though she hated libertarians, but hey, who doesn't?)
Believe that Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a bloodthirsty tyrant but Calvin Coolidge was God.
Somalia is the best country on earth
The mailman is a government employee and must be gunned down with an AK-47 for setting foot on your property.
Ron Paul is god, Bob Barr is a fake libertarian fuckwit.
Wearing seatbelts is an affront to personal liberty!
Paying taxes is a sin, unless those taxes go in to making video games like America's Army.
Agnosticism is good because religions and atheism are too altruistic and therefore hamper capitalism.
The Democrats and Republicans don't have our best interest at heart, but conglomerates do!
The only honorable way to die is in a shootout with the cops.
Paying taxes to the government is bad. Paying money to utility companies is sexy. (note: Taxpayer->Govt->Cmpny vs. Taxpayer->Cmpny)
Traffic lights are bad because they're social engineering.
Health inspectors are bad because they allow people who are too stupid and lazy to investigate every restaurant and store they go to to survive.
Worship capitalism as the only freedom-loving philosophy but refuse to pay for stuff, because open source is the ONLY way!
No business would ever desire increased government power (unless they already had it). Halliburton who?
Police do not have the right to stop a parent from killing their kid, but the cops need to be involved when a baby boy is getting circumcised!
Outlawing spam e-mail is a grave threat to liberty.
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are infallible, but amendments are bad (especially the 16th, but also other ones that give voting power to citizens).
Democracy is evil because America is only a republic! That's why we don't vote for state representatives, and instead have a state representative assigned to each state with no input from its residents. Because that'd be a democratic republic, and that's bad!
The best way to respect individuality is to let those who are useless to society starve to death.
If you cast a shadow on someone else's lawn, you're trespassing.
If a plane flies over your house, they're trespassing. (Seriously, look it up).
It's okay to eat babies so long as they're your own kids.
Taxation is theft. Charging rent is not.
The genius of the free market is that both the rich and poor get the choice of paying for expensive health care or dying.
You must remain perfectly silent any time someone else is nearby because forcing someone else's eardrums to vibrate violates the non-aggression principle.
Price gouging and monopolies are awesome! Don't like it? Then move to Russia, you commie!... even though Russia has the highest population of millionaires.
Government sucks! ...Except when they're using their resources to protect my personal property, which THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BTW.
The Federal Reserve cannot be trusted to run a currency but some libertarian pothead called Bernard von NotHaus, the High Priest of "Free Marijuana Church of Honolulu" can. (Seriously.)
Laws against statutory rape aren't necessary - there's nothing creepy at all about some dirty old man f*cking a 13-year-old.
New Hampshire will become Heaven on Earth if enough libertarians move there.
Corporatism is evil... but so is government intervention!
It is mandatory that all libertarians jack off to pictures of Jew and/or Jew on a regular basis in order to remain healthy.
Herbert Hoover was a socialist.
Economic liberalism is great because anyone can become rich if they work hard. What are monopolies and monopsonies?
Critiques of Libertarianism are inherently invalid but conspiracy theories are legit.
The Industrial Revolution created utopias
Third-world countries should be allowed to have child labor because it accelerates societal development.
Socialism came out of nowhere one day.
Property, and the right thereto, are first-order realities and not social constructs at all.
Charity and selflessness are universally hailed as virtues. Therefore, Altruism is for sheeple!
END THE FED! It doesn't matter that the idea of a centralized bank was founded by the Founding Fathers and supported by the precursor to the Republican Party (known as the Federalists), or that most first world countries have a centralized bank.
End Social Security! People who are unemployed are just lazy! ...What? You can't work because you were hurt on the job? LOL SUX 2 B U!!1
Borders are stupid. Companies should be able to hire illegal immigrants so they don't have to pay minimum wage.
Believe business' rights trump people's rights. [1]
There are only two political philosophies: pro-freedom (libertarianism) and pro-slavery (non-libertarianism).
Make fun of liberals for worshiping Obama and the mantra of "Hope" and "Change", all the while worshiping Ron Paul and shouting "RON PAUL R3VOLUTION!".
Believe all the founding fathers agreed on everything and were of one political philosophy: libertarianism, of course!

Very cheeky. Quite amusing.
Tsar of DDO
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/8/2013 7:30:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh...ha ha...I am to laugh...oh...stop...it's just too much.

OK...now that that's out of the way, instead of a list of things the reigning group of Retarditarians believes in, can I get a list of what they know, because I already knew that they were taking most of their philosophy's tenets on faith.

Their beliefs aren't that terribly interesting (or, in this case, amusing). What is of interest, however, is that which they purport to know. That's the list I wanna see.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/8/2013 8:11:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 7:30:54 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Oh...ha ha...I am to laugh...oh...stop...it's just too much.

OK...now that that's out of the way, instead of a list of things the reigning group of Retarditarians believes in, can I get a list of what they know, because I already knew that they were taking most of their philosophy's tenets on faith.

Their beliefs aren't that terribly interesting (or, in this case, amusing). What is of interest, however, is that which they purport to know. That's the list I wanna see.

Actual or constructive knowledge? Libertarianism is a political philosophy based in traditional conservationism contrasted with New Deal liberalism.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/8/2013 9:09:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 8:11:25 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:30:54 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Oh...ha ha...I am to laugh...oh...stop...it's just too much.

OK...now that that's out of the way, instead of a list of things the reigning group of Retarditarians believes in, can I get a list of what they know, because I already knew that they were taking most of their philosophy's tenets on faith.

Their beliefs aren't that terribly interesting (or, in this case, amusing). What is of interest, however, is that which they purport to know. That's the list I wanna see.

Actual or constructive knowledge? Libertarianism is a political philosophy based in traditional conservationism contrasted with New Deal liberalism.

See, that's good to know, because I, like most people who have seriously studied the topic, thought that Libertarianism was a political philosophy based in the radical ideas of such progressive thinkers as Godwin, Locke, Hobbes, Mill, Bastiat and others of their ilk during the era which has been dubbed as "The Age of Political Enlightenment", which was a good many years prior to the origins of The WPA, and the rest of the programs which made up FDR's "New Deal".

But hell, if you say that you know this, then you must be on point. I can't believe how wrong I've been all this time.

What else do you Libertarians "know"?
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/8/2013 9:20:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 9:09:55 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/8/2013 8:11:25 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:30:54 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Oh...ha ha...I am to laugh...oh...stop...it's just too much.

OK...now that that's out of the way, instead of a list of things the reigning group of Retarditarians believes in, can I get a list of what they know, because I already knew that they were taking most of their philosophy's tenets on faith.

Their beliefs aren't that terribly interesting (or, in this case, amusing). What is of interest, however, is that which they purport to know. That's the list I wanna see.

Actual or constructive knowledge? Libertarianism is a political philosophy based in traditional conservationism contrasted with New Deal liberalism.

See, that's good to know, because I, like most people who have seriously studied the topic, thought that Libertarianism was a political philosophy based in the radical ideas of such progressive thinkers as Godwin, Locke, Hobbes, Mill, Bastiat and others of their ilk during the era which has been dubbed as "The Age of Political Enlightenment", which was a good many years prior to the origins of The WPA, and the rest of the programs which made up FDR's "New Deal".

But hell, if you say that you know this, then you must be on point. I can't believe how wrong I've been all this time.

What else do you Libertarians "know"?

Kinda funny however illustrative of the reason individual study on the internet is flawed. I suggest Whitaker Chambers, for until you understand traditional S conservationism you will never grasp the libertarian constructs.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/8/2013 10:12:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 12:35:16 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
All authority figures are good unless they are called "the government".
Drugs are good. No, we just don't get a rise out of crippling personal freedoms
Social security is bad. Yep, considering the gubmint can't manage money.
Federal government is bad, State government is good. No government is good
Pedophilia is good. wat
Puppy mills are important facets of the American economy. wat
Guns are totally good, unless used by the government and its contractors. Guns are not good, but the citizenry has the right to them via the same constitution that you libtards spit on. :)
Homosexuality is good but gay marriage is not good because it'll be legalized by the evil, nasty government. wat
The death penalty is bad (but only if it's carried out by the government) I believe in the death penalty
The free market is the ultimate good. Yes
People who say they are conservative but are really Republicans are "theocratic" liars. wat
People who say they are liberal but are really Democrats are "socialist" liars. wat
Privatization is good. Yes
Unions are bad. No, what they have become is bad
Smoking is good. Tobacco companies are friends. No, but when you leftists tax the hell out of everything and nationalize half the nation, we'll need all the revenue we can get to keep the economy afloat.
Speculation is good. Question everything! That Newton guy couldn't have gotten everything right! Yes
Ayn Rand is God (though she hated libertarians, but hey, who doesn't?) wat
Believe that Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a bloodthirsty tyrant but Calvin Coolidge was God. Coolidge was decent, Roosevelt tried to stack the courts
Somalia is the best country on earth wat
The mailman is a government employee and must be gunned down with an AK-47 for setting foot on your property. wat
Ron Paul is god, Bob Barr is a fake libertarian fuckwit. Yes
Wearing seatbelts is an affront to personal liberty! Is it your business if I wear my seat belt?
Paying taxes is a sin, unless those taxes go in to making video games like America's Army. wat, most Libertarians are against the military too you halfwit.
Agnosticism is good because religions and atheism are too altruistic and therefore hamper capitalism. Agnosticism is good because science and religion are both examples of the human species attempting to explain the unexplainable.
The Democrats and Republicans don't have our best interest at heart, but conglomerates do! wat
The only honorable way to die is in a shootout with the cops. wat
Paying taxes to the government is bad. Paying money to utility companies is sexy. (note: Taxpayer->Govt->Cmpny vs. Taxpayer->Cmpny) wat
Traffic lights are bad because they're social engineering. ?
Health inspectors are bad because they allow people who are too stupid and lazy to investigate every restaurant and store they go to to survive. wat
Worship capitalism as the only freedom-loving philosophy but refuse to pay for stuff, because open source is the ONLY way! ?
No business would ever desire increased government power (unless they already had it). Halliburton who? wat
Police do not have the right to stop a parent from killing their kid, but the cops need to be involved when a baby boy is getting circumcised! ??
Outlawing spam e-mail is a grave threat to liberty. it's a nuisance as best, it will cost a lot of money to enforce.
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are infallible, but amendments are bad (especially the 16th, but also other ones that give voting power to citizens). Most libertarians don't believe that amendments are bad.
Democracy is evil because America is only a republic! That's why we don't vote for state representatives, and instead have a state representative assigned to each state with no input from its residents. Because that'd be a democratic republic, and that's bad! Yes, democracy=mob rule compadre.
The best way to respect individuality is to let those who are useless to society starve to death. Nah, let's give them free money out of the hard working man's pocket, that'll solve all the societal ills!
If you cast a shadow on someone else's lawn, you're trespassing. I have the right to my property, you and your dirty government don't have the right on it unless I say you do.
If a plane flies over your house, they're trespassing. (Seriously, look it up). If they are flying in restricted airspace they're trespassing
It's okay to eat babies so long as they're your own kids. wat
Taxation is theft. Charging rent is not. Don't see the analogy here.
The genius of the free market is that both the rich and poor get the choice of paying for expensive health care or dying. Wait, I'll just open up my checkbook right now and give my life savings to the gubmint.
You must remain perfectly silent any time someone else is nearby because forcing someone else's eardrums to vibrate violates the non-aggression principle. wat
Price gouging and monopolies are awesome! Don't like it? Then move to Russia, you commie!... even though Russia has the highest population of millionaires. And a terrible standard of living for the average person. Capitalism>Socialism/Communism
Government sucks! ...Except when they're using their resources to protect my personal property, which THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BTW. Yes, the government is a service for the people, the government serves us, not themselves. Or do you think otherwise?
The Federal Reserve cannot be trusted to run a currency but some libertarian pothead called Bernard von NotHaus, the High Priest of "Free Marijuana Church of Honolulu" can. (Seriously.) ? Well, the central banks were a major contributing factor in almost all of our financial crises, let's just let them control our economy, not like money is a tangible resource that means anything.
Laws against statutory rape aren't necessary - there's nothing creepy at all about some dirty old man f*cking a 13-year-old. wat
New Hampshire will become Heaven on Earth if enough libertarians move there.
Corporatism is evil... but so is government intervention! I actually believe in Corporatism
It is mandatory that all libertarians jack off to pictures of Jew and/or Jew on a regular basis in order to remain healthy. It's mandatory that you commit a genocidal atrocity every 30-40 years against them to remain healthy.

Economic liberalism is great because anyone can become rich if they work hard. What are monopolies and monopsonies?
Critiques of Libertarianism are inherently invalid but conspiracy theories are legit.
The Industrial Revolution created utopias
Third-world countries should be allowed to have child labor because it accelerates societal development.
Socialism came out of nowhere one day.
Property, and the right thereto, are first-order realities and not social constructs at all.
Charity and selflessness are universally hailed as virtues. Therefore, Altruism is for sheeple!
END THE FED! It doesn't matter that the idea of a centralized bank was founded by the Founding Fathers and supported by the precursor to the Republican Party (known as the Federalists), or that most first world countries have a centralized bank.
End Social Security! People who are unemployed are just lazy! ...What? You can't work because you were hurt on the job? LOL SUX 2 B U!!1
Borders are stupid. Companies should be able to hire illegal immigrants so they don't have to pay minimum wage.
Believe business' rights trump people's rights. [1]
There are only two political philosophies: pro-freedom (libertarianism) and pro-slavery (non-libertarianism).
Make fun of liberals for worshiping Obama and the mantra of "Hope" and "Change", all the while worshiping Ron Paul and shouting "RON PAUL R3VOLUTION!".
Believe all the founding fathers agreed on everything and were of one political philosophy: libertarianism, of co
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/8/2013 10:15:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Just lump us all together, I guess you could expect that we would all follow the same ideology, because that is what the notorious chicken democrats do. We are independant and don't have to vote along party lines, you subscribe to all liberal dogma, we don't have to take either side, we are objective, liberals are subjective and would love to (legally or illegally, it doesn't really matter because they think they know what's best for everyone else anyways, right?....) impose their morals upon the populous.

You were saying?

Back to you OP
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/8/2013 10:41:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 10:15:06 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Just lump us all together, I guess you could expect that we would all follow the same ideology, because that is what the notorious chicken democrats do. We are independant and don't have to vote along party lines, you subscribe to all liberal dogma, we don't have to take either side, we are objective, liberals are subjective and would love to (legally or illegally, it doesn't really matter because they think they know what's best for everyone else anyways, right?....) impose their morals upon the populous.


You were saying?

Back to you OP

(see bold text above)

You realize that the economists who self-identify as Libertarian are the same ones who dismiss the use of mathematics in their chosen field of study, right, while the "liberal" ones are building models to try and enhance the accuracy of the various predictive models out there?

(and, seriously, Dark Kermit, since I know you're dying to show your monkey dartboard link, predicting economic shifts and predicting the stock market are two very different things. Stock Market prediction is not what economic models are about....that is the work of financial advisers, not economists.)

Saying that Libertarians are objective is like saying Ted Bundy leaned vegetarian.

What's next?
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/8/2013 10:46:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 10:41:20 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:15:06 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Just lump us all together, I guess you could expect that we would all follow the same ideology, because that is what the notorious chicken democrats do. We are independant and don't have to vote along party lines, you subscribe to all liberal dogma, we don't have to take either side, we are objective, liberals are subjective and would love to (legally or illegally, it doesn't really matter because they think they know what's best for everyone else anyways, right?....) impose their morals upon the populous.


You were saying?

Back to you OP

(see bold text above)

You realize that the economists who self-identify as Libertarian are the same ones who dismiss the use of mathematics in their chosen field of study, right, while the "liberal" ones are building models to try and enhance the accuracy of the various predictive models out there?

(and, seriously, Dark Kermit, since I know you're dying to show your monkey dartboard link, predicting economic shifts and predicting the stock market are two very different things. Stock Market prediction is not what economic models are about....that is the work of financial advisers, not economists.)

Saying that Libertarians are objective is like saying Ted Bundy leaned vegetarian.

What's next?

Flat tax math:

http://www.heritage.org...

http://www.polyconomics.com...

http://www.washingtontimes.com...

http://www.financialsamurai.com...

Flat tax is proportiniate compared to the subjective progressive tax

'Man making $1,000,000 gets taxed 15%, Pays $150,000, man making $50,000 gets taxed 15%, pays $7,500.

The rich man makes 20x more than the poor man, but also pays 20x more in taxes.

Yes, I totally have no clue what I am talking about and have no mathematical skills, all conservatives and libertarians must be puppets of fox news!!!1111
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/8/2013 10:54:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 10:46:42 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:41:20 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:15:06 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Just lump us all together, I guess you could expect that we would all follow the same ideology, because that is what the notorious chicken democrats do. We are independant and don't have to vote along party lines, you subscribe to all liberal dogma, we don't have to take either side, we are objective, liberals are subjective and would love to (legally or illegally, it doesn't really matter because they think they know what's best for everyone else anyways, right?....) impose their morals upon the populous.


You were saying?

Back to you OP

(see bold text above)

You realize that the economists who self-identify as Libertarian are the same ones who dismiss the use of mathematics in their chosen field of study, right, while the "liberal" ones are building models to try and enhance the accuracy of the various predictive models out there?

(and, seriously, Dark Kermit, since I know you're dying to show your monkey dartboard link, predicting economic shifts and predicting the stock market are two very different things. Stock Market prediction is not what economic models are about....that is the work of financial advisers, not economists.)

Saying that Libertarians are objective is like saying Ted Bundy leaned vegetarian.

What's next?

Flat tax math:

http://www.heritage.org...

http://www.polyconomics.com...

http://www.washingtontimes.com...

http://www.financialsamurai.com...

Flat tax is proportiniate compared to the subjective progressive tax

'Man making $1,000,000 gets taxed 15%, Pays $150,000, man making $50,000 gets taxed 15%, pays $7,500.

The rich man makes 20x more than the poor man, but also pays 20x more in taxes.

Yes, I totally have no clue what I am talking about and have no mathematical skills, all conservatives and libertarians must be puppets of fox news!!!1111

Please don't mistake the arithmetic of a flat tax proposal with math.

Also, this isn't economics. It's logistics.

Next.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/8/2013 11:05:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 10:54:13 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:46:42 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:41:20 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:15:06 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Just lump us all together, I guess you could expect that we would all follow the same ideology, because that is what the notorious chicken democrats do. We are independant and don't have to vote along party lines, you subscribe to all liberal dogma, we don't have to take either side, we are objective, liberals are subjective and would love to (legally or illegally, it doesn't really matter because they think they know what's best for everyone else anyways, right?....) impose their morals upon the populous.


You were saying?

Back to you OP

(see bold text above)

You realize that the economists who self-identify as Libertarian are the same ones who dismiss the use of mathematics in their chosen field of study, right, while the "liberal" ones are building models to try and enhance the accuracy of the various predictive models out there?

(and, seriously, Dark Kermit, since I know you're dying to show your monkey dartboard link, predicting economic shifts and predicting the stock market are two very different things. Stock Market prediction is not what economic models are about....that is the work of financial advisers, not economists.)

Saying that Libertarians are objective is like saying Ted Bundy leaned vegetarian.

What's next?

Flat tax math:

http://www.heritage.org...

http://www.polyconomics.com...

http://www.washingtontimes.com...

http://www.financialsamurai.com...

Flat tax is proportiniate compared to the subjective progressive tax

'Man making $1,000,000 gets taxed 15%, Pays $150,000, man making $50,000 gets taxed 15%, pays $7,500.

The rich man makes 20x more than the poor man, but also pays 20x more in taxes.

Yes, I totally have no clue what I am talking about and have no mathematical skills, all conservatives and libertarians must be puppets of fox news!!!1111

Please don't mistake the arithmetic of a flat tax proposal with math.

Also, this isn't economics. It's logistics.

Next.

I have a relatively unique view of economics.

I believe in a combination of Keynesian and Supply-Side economics (both are possible hand in hand when done properly).

-Government can make partial subsidies by buyng cheap stock from downturn businesses and helping give them a hand up

- Government can cut back regulations on business, do tax cuts on the wealthy and entrepenuers to spur private investment.

When you tax the populous in general too heavily, the private market fails while the government succeeds, this simply isn't how capitalism works.

If you minimize taxes and let the private market work on it's own (except for partial subsidies), then you will see the beauty of supply and demand kick in.

When people have more money to spend, the demand increases for tangible products. It has been proven that when people have excess amounts of money compared to what they had before, they will typically spend it and not just save it. The same goes for businesses, when the government creates in unstable economy and big business and shareholders start to see businesses close down throughout the nation, they stop spending that money and investing in the economy. They horde it away in bank accounts to secure their own personal finances and make sure they can keep what they already have. Shareholders aren't greedy, they are smart, would you invest your money in a downturn economy? That is why the government should do it, they should buy cheap stocks and help businesses with these cheap stocks, the government will then sell these stocks when the prices increase due to government help, and the government makes a profit without taxation! Wow!!!111
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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3/8/2013 11:12:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 10:46:42 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:

Flat tax math:

http://www.heritage.org...

http://www.polyconomics.com...

http://www.washingtontimes.com...

http://www.financialsamurai.com...

Flat tax is proportiniate compared to the subjective progressive tax

'Man making $1,000,000 gets taxed 15%, Pays $150,000, man making $50,000 gets taxed 15%, pays $7,500.

The rich man makes 20x more than the poor man, but also pays 20x more in taxes.

Yes, I totally have no clue what I am talking about and have no mathematical skills, all conservatives and libertarians must be puppets of fox news!!!1111

I don't suppose I could point to Tax Policy Center studies on some of those (Gingrich tax plan, the 9-9-9, Perry's plan, and the Heritage Foundation's plan), but I'm thinking that won't change your views.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/8/2013 4:00:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 11:05:35 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:54:13 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:46:42 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:41:20 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:15:06 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Just lump us all together, I guess you could expect that we would all follow the same ideology, because that is what the notorious chicken democrats do. We are independant and don't have to vote along party lines, you subscribe to all liberal dogma, we don't have to take either side, we are objective, liberals are subjective and would love to (legally or illegally, it doesn't really matter because they think they know what's best for everyone else anyways, right?....) impose their morals upon the populous.


You were saying?

Back to you OP

(see bold text above)

You realize that the economists who self-identify as Libertarian are the same ones who dismiss the use of mathematics in their chosen field of study, right, while the "liberal" ones are building models to try and enhance the accuracy of the various predictive models out there?

(and, seriously, Dark Kermit, since I know you're dying to show your monkey dartboard link, predicting economic shifts and predicting the stock market are two very different things. Stock Market prediction is not what economic models are about....that is the work of financial advisers, not economists.)

Saying that Libertarians are objective is like saying Ted Bundy leaned vegetarian.

What's next?

Flat tax math:

http://www.heritage.org...

http://www.polyconomics.com...

http://www.washingtontimes.com...

http://www.financialsamurai.com...

Flat tax is proportiniate compared to the subjective progressive tax

'Man making $1,000,000 gets taxed 15%, Pays $150,000, man making $50,000 gets taxed 15%, pays $7,500.

The rich man makes 20x more than the poor man, but also pays 20x more in taxes.

Yes, I totally have no clue what I am talking about and have no mathematical skills, all conservatives and libertarians must be puppets of fox news!!!1111

Please don't mistake the arithmetic of a flat tax proposal with math.

Also, this isn't economics. It's logistics.

Next.


I have a relatively unique view of economics.

I believe in a combination of Keynesian and Supply-Side economics (both are possible hand in hand when done properly).

-Government can make partial subsidies by buyng cheap stock from downturn businesses and helping give them a hand up

- Government can cut back regulations on business, do tax cuts on the wealthy and entrepenuers to spur private investment.

When you tax the populous in general too heavily, the private market fails while the government succeeds, this simply isn't how capitalism works.

If you minimize taxes and let the private market work on it's own (except for partial subsidies), then you will see the beauty of supply and demand kick in.

When people have more money to spend, the demand increases for tangible products. It has been proven that when people have excess amounts of money compared to what they had before, they will typically spend it and not just save it. The same goes for businesses, when the government creates in unstable economy and big business and shareholders start to see businesses close down throughout the nation, they stop spending that money and investing in the economy. They horde it away in bank accounts to secure their own personal finances and make sure they can keep what they already have. Shareholders aren't greedy, they are smart, would you invest your money in a downturn economy? That is why the government should do it, they should buy cheap stocks and help businesses with these cheap stocks, the government will then sell these stocks when the prices increase due to government help, and the government makes a profit without taxation! Wow!!!111

Individually, I agree with every statement you made. In total, it's a bit more complicated, in my estimate, though I do believe the corporate/business tax rate should be zero.

Corporate income tax is paid by the consumer in higher prices for goods and services, making it a de facto sales tax, which is regressive.

Other than that VERY flat tax, the graduated tax system is better for the government's keynesian side of the house when it needs to do its thing.
War is over, if you want it.

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ConservativeAmerican
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3/8/2013 4:20:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Individually, I agree with every statement you made. In total, it's a bit more complicated, in my estimate, though I do believe the corporate/business tax rate should be zero.

As do I.

Corporate income tax is paid by the consumer in higher prices for goods and services, making it a de facto sales tax, which is regressive.

Mhm

Other than that VERY flat tax, the graduated tax system is better for the government's keynesian side of the house when it needs to do its thing.

Well, if the 'gubmint' made profits like I just said, by taking downturn stocks that no one is buying, buy them, and use their funds to help the business, they would make a decent profit doing that.

Partial subsidies. I am in full support of Keynesian economics for downturn economies, but I think it can be accomplished via the flat tax.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/8/2013 4:23:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 12:35:16 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
All authority figures are good unless they are called "the government".

That's an issue with Anarchists, not my position.

Drugs are good.

Some are, some aren't.

Social security is bad.
Federal government is bad, State government is good.

Yes.

Pedophilia is good.

No.

Puppy mills are important facets of the American economy.
Guns are totally good, unless used by the government and its contractors.

No.

Homosexuality is good but gay marriage is not good because it'll be legalized by the evil, nasty government.

Sure.

The death penalty is bad (but only if it's carried out by the government)
The free market is the ultimate good.

Sure.

People who say they are conservative but are really Republicans are "theocratic" liars.
People who say they are liberal but are really Democrats are "socialist" liars.

No.

Privatization is good.
Unions are bad.

Sure.

Smoking is good. Tobacco companies are friends.

No.

Speculation is good. Question everything! That Newton guy couldn't have gotten everything right!
Ayn Rand is God (though she hated libertarians, but hey, who doesn't?)
Believe that Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a bloodthirsty tyrant but Calvin Coolidge was God.

Sure.

Somalia is the best country on earth

Better than dictatorships.

The mailman is a government employee and must be gunned down with an AK-47 for setting foot on your property.

No.

Ron Paul is god, Bob Barr is a fake libertarian fuckwit.

Kinda.

Wearing seatbelts is an affront to personal liberty!
Paying taxes is a sin, unless those taxes go in to making video games like America's Army.
Agnosticism is good because religions and atheism are too altruistic and therefore hamper capitalism.
The Democrats and Republicans don't have our best interest at heart, but conglomerates do!

No.

The only honorable way to die is in a shootout with the cops.
Paying taxes to the government is bad. Paying money to utility companies is sexy. (note: Taxpayer->Govt->Cmpny vs. Taxpayer->Cmpny)

No. Though Anarchists think that.

Traffic lights are bad because they're social engineering.

In sense, yes.

Health inspectors are bad because they allow people who are too stupid and lazy to investigate every restaurant and store they go to to survive.
Worship capitalism as the only freedom-loving philosophy but refuse to pay for stuff, because open source is the ONLY way!
No business would ever desire increased government power (unless they already had it). Halliburton who?
Police do not have the right to stop a parent from killing their kid, but the cops need to be involved when a baby boy is getting circumcised!
Outlawing spam e-mail is a grave threat to liberty.
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are infallible, but amendments are bad (especially the 16th, but also other ones that give voting power to citizens).
Democracy is evil because America is only a republic! That's why we don't vote for state representatives, and instead have a state representative assigned to each state with no input from its residents. Because that'd be a democratic republic, and that's bad!
The best way to respect individuality is to let those who are useless to society starve to death.
If you cast a shadow on someone else's lawn, you're trespassing.
If a plane flies over your house, they're trespassing. (Seriously, look it up).
It's okay to eat babies so long as they're your own kids.
Taxation is theft. Charging rent is not.
The genius of the free market is that both the rich and poor get the choice of paying for expensive health care or dying.
You must remain perfectly silent any time someone else is nearby because forcing someone else's eardrums to vibrate violates the non-aggression principle.
Price gouging and monopolies are awesome! Don't like it? Then move to Russia, you commie!... even though Russia has the highest population of millionaires.
Government sucks! ...Except when they're using their resources to protect my personal property, which THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BTW.
The Federal Reserve cannot be trusted to run a currency but some libertarian pothead called Bernard von NotHaus, the High Priest of "Free Marijuana Church of Honolulu" can. (Seriously.)
Laws against statutory rape aren't necessary - there's nothing creepy at all about some dirty old man f*cking a 13-year-old.
New Hampshire will become Heaven on Earth if enough libertarians move there.
Corporatism is evil... but so is government intervention!
It is mandatory that all libertarians jack off to pictures of Jew and/or Jew on a regular basis in order to remain healthy.
Herbert Hoover was a socialist.
Economic liberalism is great because anyone can become rich if they work hard. What are monopolies and monopsonies?
Critiques of Libertarianism are inherently invalid but conspiracy theories are legit.
The Industrial Revolution created utopias
Third-world countries should be allowed to have child labor because it accelerates societal development.
Socialism came out of nowhere one day.
Property, and the right thereto, are first-order realities and not social constructs at all.
Charity and selflessness are universally hailed as virtues. Therefore, Altruism is for sheeple!
END THE FED! It doesn't matter that the idea of a centralized bank was founded by the Founding Fathers and supported by the precursor to the Republican Party (known as the Federalists), or that most first world countries have a centralized bank.
End Social Security! People who are unemployed are just lazy! ...What? You can't work because you were hurt on the job? LOL SUX 2 B U!!1
Borders are stupid. Companies should be able to hire illegal immigrants so they don't have to pay minimum wage.
Believe business' rights trump people's rights. [1]
There are only two political philosophies: pro-freedom (libertarianism) and pro-slavery (non-libertarianism).
Make fun of liberals for worshiping Obama and the mantra of "Hope" and "Change", all the while worshiping Ron Paul and shouting "RON PAUL R3VOLUTION!".
Believe all the founding fathers agreed on everything and were of one political philosophy: libertarianism, of course!

Hahaha, ok I'm done.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/8/2013 4:39:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 4:23:41 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Psst. Guys. WSA is an anarchist-capitalist. He is fvcking with you.

I know, I debate him all the time. But he's Anarchist, not Libertarian.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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3/8/2013 4:58:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 12:35:16 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Pedophilia is good.:
Couldn't get past this one...Really?
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DoubtingDave
Posts: 380
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3/8/2013 5:15:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 4:58:10 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/8/2013 12:35:16 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Pedophilia is good.:
Couldn't get past this one...Really?

he's joking
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"Evolutionists think that people evolved from rocks" -Scotty

"And whats so bad about a Holy war? By Holy war, I mean a war which would aim to subdue others under Islam." -Ahmed.M

"The free market didn't create the massive wealth in the country, WW2 did." -malcomxy

"Independant federal regulators make our capitalist society possible." -Erik_Erikson
malcolmxy
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3/8/2013 8:11:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 4:20:08 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Individually, I agree with every statement you made. In total, it's a bit more complicated, in my estimate, though I do believe the corporate/business tax rate should be zero.

As do I.

Corporate income tax is paid by the consumer in higher prices for goods and services, making it a de facto sales tax, which is regressive.

Mhm

Other than that VERY flat tax, the graduated tax system is better for the government's keynesian side of the house when it needs to do its thing.

Well, if the 'gubmint' made profits like I just said, by taking downturn stocks that no one is buying, buy them, and use their funds to help the business, they would make a decent profit doing that.

Partial subsidies. I am in full support of Keynesian economics for downturn economies, but I think it can be accomplished via the flat tax.

Anyone can invest in down stocks. The government, because they are not beholden to quarterly profits (or any profits) is better suited to other investments like roads and such.

Not a directly profitable enterprise, but the additional economic activity of infrastructure benefits everyone, including government.
War is over, if you want it.

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DanT
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3/8/2013 8:12:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 12:35:16 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
All authority figures are good unless they are called "the government".
Not necessarily.
Drugs are good.
This is wrong.
Drug Prohibition is bad =/= drugs is good
Social security is bad.
This is true
Federal government is bad, State government is good.
Not necessarily. Too much federal government is bad.
Pedophilia is good.
This is false. Anti-statutory rape =/= pro pedophilia. Statutory rape laws as is is very flawed and arbitrary. Why do you support the redefinition of rape? Why do you support 16 year olds having to register as sex offenders for having sex with their 15 year old girlfriend/boyfriend?
Puppy mills are important facets of the American economy.
That's not true
Guns are totally good, unless used by the government and its contractors.
No, I support the military and contracted mercenaries.
Homosexuality is good but gay marriage is not good because it'll be legalized by the evil, nasty government.
The government should not be involved in marriage period. homosexuality is not a political issue.
The death penalty is bad (but only if it's carried out by the government)
Not true, I support the death penalty in certain cases. Also, Libertarians are against murder.
The free market is the ultimate good.
People who say they are conservative but are really Republicans are "theocratic" liars.
The two are not mutually exclusive
People who say they are liberal but are really Democrats are "socialist" liars.
The two are not mutually exclusive
Privatization is good.
This is true
Unions are bad.
This is true
Smoking is good. Tobacco companies are friends.
No. anti-Smoking bans =/= pro smoking. I am a teetotaler; I don't smoke, drink, or use drugs, but that does not mean I should force my beliefs on others. It's their body, they can poison it if they want to. Personally, I consider drugs and alcohol Darwin awards.
Speculation is good. Question everything! That Newton guy couldn't have gotten everything right!
You should question everything, but you should not refuse logical answers either.
Ayn Rand is God (though she hated libertarians, but hey, who doesn't?)
No he is not. Worshiping politicians is a sign of a statist
Believe that Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a bloodthirsty tyrant but Calvin Coolidge was God.
FDR was a tyrant.
Somalia is the best country on earth
No it's not. Somalia's main issue is the civil war between statist factions.
The mailman is a government employee and must be gunned down with an AK-47 for setting foot on your property.
My stepdad is a letter carrier. Mailmen are no longer federal employees, and they are constitutional.
Ron Paul is god, Bob Barr is a fake libertarian fuckwit.
ron Paul is a fake libertarian.
Wearing seatbelts is an affront to personal liberty!
I always wear my sealtelt, but I am against seatbelt laws.
Paying taxes is a sin, unless those taxes go in to making video games like America's Army.
I pay my taxes, but I am against the income tax, especially progressive income taxes. Direct taxes are one of the main reasons for the revolution, which is why the constitution originally stressed the importance of appropriation.
Agnosticism is good because religions and atheism are too altruistic and therefore hamper capitalism.
Way too generalize
The Democrats and Republicans don't have our best interest at heart, but conglomerates do!
The only honorable way to die is in a shootout with the cops.
Paying taxes to the government is bad. Paying money to utility companies is sexy. (note: Taxpayer->Govt->Cmpny vs. Taxpayer->Cmpny)
Traffic lights are bad because they're social engineering.
Health inspectors are bad because they allow people who are too stupid and lazy to investigate every restaurant and store they go to to survive.
Worship capitalism as the only freedom-loving philosophy but refuse to pay for stuff, because open source is the ONLY way!
No business would ever desire increased government power (unless they already had it). Halliburton who?
Police do not have the right to stop a parent from killing their kid, but the cops need to be involved when a baby boy is getting circumcised!
Outlawing spam e-mail is a grave threat to liberty.
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are infallible, but amendments are bad (especially the 16th, but also other ones that give voting power to citizens).
Democracy is evil because America is only a republic! That's why we don't vote for state representatives, and instead have a state representative assigned to each state with no input from its residents. Because that'd be a democratic republic, and that's bad!
The best way to respect individuality is to let those who are useless to society starve to death.
If you cast a shadow on someone else's lawn, you're trespassing.
If a plane flies over your house, they're trespassing. (Seriously, look it up).
It's okay to eat babies so long as they're your own kids.
Taxation is theft. Charging rent is not.
The genius of the free market is that both the rich and poor get the choice of paying for expensive health care or dying.
You must remain perfectly silent any time someone else is nearby because forcing someone else's eardrums to vibrate violates the non-aggression principle.
Price gouging and monopolies are awesome! Don't like it? Then move to Russia, you commie!... even though Russia has the highest population of millionaires.
Government sucks! ...Except when they're using their resources to protect my personal property, which THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BTW.
The Federal Reserve cannot be trusted to run a currency but some libertarian pothead called Bernard von NotHaus, the High Priest of "Free Marijuana Church of Honolulu" can. (Seriously.)
Laws against statutory rape aren't necessary - there's nothing creepy at all about some dirty old man f*cking a 13-year-old.
New Hampshire will become Heaven on Earth if enough libertarians move there.
Corporatism is evil... but so is government intervention!
It is mandatory that all libertarians jack off to pictures of Jew and/or Jew on a regular basis in order to remain healthy.
Herbert Hoover was a socialist.
Economic liberalism is great because anyone can become rich if they work hard. What are monopolies and monopsonies?
Critiques of Libertarianism are inherently invalid but conspiracy theories are legit.
The Industrial Revolution created utopias
Third-world countries should be allowed to have child labor because it accelerates societal development.
Socialism came out of nowhere one day.
Property, and the right thereto, are first-order realities and not social constructs at all.
Charity and selflessness are universally hailed as virtues. Therefore, Altruism is for sheeple!
END THE FED! It doesn't matter that the idea of a centralized bank was founded by the Founding Fathers and supported by the precursor to the Republican Party (known as the Federalists), or that most first world countries have a centralized bank.
End Social Security! People who are unemployed are just lazy! ...What? You can't work because you were hurt on the job? LOL SUX 2 B U!!1
Borders are stupid. Companies should be able to hire illegal immigrants so they don't have to pay minimum wage.
Believe business' rights trump people's rights. [1]
There are only two political philosophies: pro-freedom (libertarianism) and pro-slavery (non-libertarianism).
Make fun of liberals for worshiping Obama and the mantra of "Hope" and "Change", all the while worshiping Ron Paul and shouting "RON PAUL R3VOLUTION!".
Believe all the founding fathers agreed on everything and were of one political philosophy: libertarianism, of course!

This is jut a list of misconceptions and false generalizations. Not worth my time.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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3/8/2013 11:02:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 8:12:51 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/8/2013 12:35:16 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Ron Paul is god, Bob Barr is a fake libertarian fuckwit.
Ron Paul is a fake libertarian.

Why do you think so?
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Wallstreetatheist
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3/8/2013 11:03:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 4:39:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/8/2013 4:23:41 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Psst. Guys. WSA is an anarchist-capitalist. He is fvcking with you.

I know, I debate him all the time. But he's Anarchist, not Libertarian.

Why don't you think I'm a Libertarian?
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malcolmxy
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3/8/2013 11:11:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 11:03:25 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 3/8/2013 4:39:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/8/2013 4:23:41 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Psst. Guys. WSA is an anarchist-capitalist. He is fvcking with you.

I know, I debate him all the time. But he's Anarchist, not Libertarian.

Why don't you think I'm a Libertarian?

I'm gonna go with the fact that he doesn't understand the origins of Libertarianism to begin with.

I don't think you're one because you don't understand the roots of Anarchism, and have distorted it to fit with others of your beliefs which are in direct conflict with Anarchism.

Then again, I actually understand all this sh!t and read the foundational books from which the philosophies sprang.

I'm real funny like that, though.
War is over, if you want it.

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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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3/8/2013 11:23:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 11:11:56 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I don't think you're one because you don't understand the roots of Anarchism, and have distorted it to fit with others of your beliefs which are in direct conflict with Anarchism.

I prefer my anarchism without the coordination problem. If you have a society with many millions of people, doing anything requires the coordination of many numbers of those people. The AnCap version is merely expanding the price system to include things the government currently does. That makes much more sense than when the proponents of the leftist conceptions of anarchism say that somehow people in an unexplained way will coordinate their activity to produce everything right.

I understand that most anarchist traditions are anti-capitalist and/or anti-market; that doesn't mean that they're right. It's a blatant appeal to tradition to say so.
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Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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3/9/2013 2:19:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 11:23:54 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 3/8/2013 11:11:56 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I don't think you're one because you don't understand the roots of Anarchism, and have distorted it to fit with others of your beliefs which are in direct conflict with Anarchism.

I prefer my anarchism without the coordination problem. If you have a society with many millions of people, doing anything requires the coordination of many numbers of those people. The AnCap version is merely expanding the price system to include things the government currently does. That makes much more sense than when the proponents of the leftist conceptions of anarchism say that somehow people in an unexplained way will coordinate their activity to produce everything right.

I understand that most anarchist traditions are anti-capitalist and/or anti-market; that doesn't mean that they're right. It's a blatant appeal to tradition to say so.

Alright. I'm way too wasted to be doing this right now, but I'm going to try it anyway. So, I operate from a position according to which government is just an epiphenomenon of existing practices of power, right? So, it's not necessarily that government is a unique phenomenon in need of elimination. There are certainly things peculiar to it, like the coercive monopolization problem, but, even after its hypothetical abolition, there will inevitably be persisting cultural stuff to mess around with. The typical AnCap response, which seems to rely on abstention from patronizing whatever company, is sort of insufficient. Like, come on. For as many cases of "market pressure" on companies as one can cite, there's nevertheless the huge problem of less salient issues being left by the wayside as companies take clear advantage of gaps in either knowledge or empathy. Humans are prone to a multiplicity of cognitive biases whose operation distorts their behavior, and it's incredibly doubtful that collective action is a believable solution to that sort of thing. The only reason that many examples of functional protest are available is that their salience brings to public attention what otherwise would have been hidden from view.

All this said, my question concerns the transfer of government functions to the market. If, as I argue, the state is merely a consequence of existing techniques of power, why should we assuage statists' concern with the placation that government will become a competitive enterprise? If one considers the illustrative example of the prison industry, I'm unconvinced that privatized governance will do a great deal to address the problem of employing cages to deal with declared undesirables, or the problem of employees being treated like garbage, regardless of labor laws, much less skill level (where skilled employees are often debilitatingly overworked and less-skilled employees, e.g., food service workers, are treated like shit both by customers and employers), and it's obvious that "the market" has no reason/incentive to correct that kind of thing on the level of individual, in-the-moment, discretionary behavior.

This isn't to say "markets bad" or whatever, but I do think the anti-capitalist traditions have plenty of ground, not only in their explicit rejection of property rights (the ontological foundation of which is completely frivolous), but, more importantly, in their various (non-exhaustive) accounts of the experience of the marginalized, workaday person, something which market anarchists, in their focus on economics, tend often to neglect. I'm curious how one would deal with this from the perspective of the paradigm of privatization.

Also, most importantly, I took three more shots in the course of writing this. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssss.