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Abortion - How to solve the issue?

StephTheStudent
Posts: 1
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3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hello everyone, this is for a college project that I have to write on online deliberation - so please participate and help me out!

As everyone knows abortion is a very controversial issue in the United States, and it does not appear to be going away any time soon. Many people tend to be rather polarized on this issue, but there are also the gray areas where it becomes confusing - maybe abortion is acceptable in these circumstances, maybe it should be regulated like this, etc.

-Should abortion be completely legal, or completely illegal?
-Or what are certain regulations or circumstances in which possible laws could/should have exceptions? Age restrictions, health reasons, rape cases, insurance policies, cost, etc?
-Is making abortions illegal a violation of the woman's rights? Or is maybe allowing abortions a violation of the unborn child's life?
-How could this debate be solved?
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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3/12/2013 4:26:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM, StephTheStudent wrote:
Hello everyone, this is for a college project that I have to write on online deliberation - so please participate and help me out!

As everyone knows abortion is a very controversial issue in the United States, and it does not appear to be going away any time soon. Many people tend to be rather polarized on this issue, but there are also the gray areas where it becomes confusing - maybe abortion is acceptable in these circumstances, maybe it should be regulated like this, etc.



-Should abortion be completely legal, or completely illegal?
-Or what are certain regulations or circumstances in which possible laws could/should have exceptions? Age restrictions, health reasons, rape cases, insurance policies, cost, etc?
If the baby could not survive outside the womb, abortion is justified. If not, then it is not justified.
-Is making abortions illegal a violation of the woman's rights?
Yes, until a certain point.
Or is maybe allowing abortions a violation of the unborn child's life?
It's simply the denial of goods. Nothing wrong with that.
-How could this debate be solved?
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malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/12/2013 5:03:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM, StephTheStudent wrote:
Hello everyone, this is for a college project that I have to write on online
-How could this debate be solved?

by shifting the question to a privacy rights issue and noting that no one wants the government to have the power to make a medical procedure illegal.
War is over, if you want it.

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ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 5:05:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:03:27 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM, StephTheStudent wrote:
Hello everyone, this is for a college project that I have to write on online
-How could this debate be solved?

by shifting the question to a privacy rights issue and noting that no one wants the government to have the power to make a medical procedure illegal.

But they can have the power to stop whole pipelines from being built to protect a few forests and animals?

Mind you the same pipeline that would increase economic activity in hard times.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 5:05:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Both sides want the government to have power, the hypocrisy stands at where the power should be allocated.

In other words, you are preaching to the choir Malcolm.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/12/2013 5:31:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM, StephTheStudent wrote:
Hello everyone, this is for a college project that I have to write on online deliberation - so please participate and help me out!

As everyone knows abortion is a very controversial issue in the United States, and it does not appear to be going away any time soon. Many people tend to be rather polarized on this issue, but there are also the gray areas where it becomes confusing - maybe abortion is acceptable in these circumstances, maybe it should be regulated like this, etc.



-Should abortion be completely legal, or completely illegal?
-Or what are certain regulations or circumstances in which possible laws could/should have exceptions? Age restrictions, health reasons, rape cases, insurance policies, cost, etc?
-Is making abortions illegal a violation of the woman's rights? Or is maybe allowing abortions a violation of the unborn child's life?
-How could this debate be solved?

Allow abortion when it threatens the mother's life, and in cases of rape or incest.

Allow abortions to occur in the first and second trimesters. Ban late term abortion (3rd trimester).

That's mostly pro choice, but has some appeal to those who are pro life. A fetus more closely resembles a baby in the 3rd trimester.
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RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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3/12/2013 5:37:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM, StephTheStudent wrote:
Hello everyone, this is for a college project that I have to write on online deliberation - so please participate and help me out!

As everyone knows abortion is a very controversial issue in the United States, and it does not appear to be going away any time soon. Many people tend to be rather polarized on this issue, but there are also the gray areas where it becomes confusing - maybe abortion is acceptable in these circumstances, maybe it should be regulated like this, etc.



-Should abortion be completely legal, or completely illegal?
-Or what are certain regulations or circumstances in which possible laws could/should have exceptions? Age restrictions, health reasons, rape cases, insurance policies, cost, etc?
-Is making abortions illegal a violation of the woman's rights? Or is maybe allowing abortions a violation of the unborn child's life?
-How could this debate be solved?

Abortion kills fetuses. There's no getting around that. However, I look at it from a "lesser of two evils" angle. It's better to abort an unwanted fetus than raise an unwanted child.

Of course, everyone's situation is unique and so it shouldn't be my call, but the mother's.
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burge176
Posts: 1
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3/12/2013 5:42:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am very pro-life and truly feel that everyone deserves a chance to live. Some of the only exceptions I have is that rape victims should be allowed to abort that baby due to the trauma and violent memories of the rape when they birth that baby. That being said just because you "made a mistake" or chose later that you don't want your child who or what gives you the right to abort it? I'll take this two different ways: Religious and scientific. On a religious note, those who believe in Jesus Christ know that god decides who lives and who dies and the days each of us will live to. No human deserves nor is allowed to take the right to life of another. On the other hand taking a scientific approach, think of it this way. Why is fire hot and not cold. Why do rainbows form after rainstorms. Simple questions that have scientific explanations, but the underlying fact is that no one questions these events because they are natural. Set god aside, and just ask...why does a human get the right to decide who lives and who dies. Do mammals, not just humans, but other mammals get the right to abort their young? In theory yes, through leaving them after birth. But, they don't get the opportunity to abort them in the womb. If we bring it back to humans, understand that each sperm & egg that combine at conception give the potential to produce an engineer, scientist, president, actress, singer, the list goes on. Protect life...for everyone.

-Should abortion be completely legal, or completely illegal?
Illegal
-Or what are certain regulations or circumstances in which possible laws could/should have exceptions? Age restrictions, health reasons, rape cases, insurance policies, cost, etc?
Abortions should not be funded by health care and only should apply to rape victims. There should be a limit to how far a long a woman should be able to abort.
-Is making abortions illegal a violation of the woman's rights? Or is maybe allowing abortions a violation of the unborn child's life?
A violation of an unborn child's life. These children could grow to be the new Steve Jobs or create the cure for cancer. How is it your right to limit them that?
-How could this debate be solved?
Understand the right to life. Question why it is okay for life to be taken at the hand of another human and not let either (science) or (religion) be the judge? Always question how even an unborn baby no matter how far along could still not grow to do great things.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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3/12/2013 6:27:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM, StephTheStudent wrote:
Hello everyone, this is for a college project that I have to write on online deliberation - so please participate and help me out!

As everyone knows abortion is a very controversial issue in the United States, and it does not appear to be going away any time soon. Many people tend to be rather polarized on this issue, but there are also the gray areas where it becomes confusing - maybe abortion is acceptable in these circumstances, maybe it should be regulated like this, etc.



-Should abortion be completely legal, or completely illegal?
-Or what are certain regulations or circumstances in which possible laws could/should have exceptions? Age restrictions, health reasons, rape cases, insurance policies, cost, etc?
-Is making abortions illegal a violation of the woman's rights? Or is maybe allowing abortions a violation of the unborn child's life?
-How could this debate be solved?

Outlaw pregnancy.
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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3/12/2013 10:18:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't have a dog in this fight. I pretty much agree with Contra, minus one point. Late-term abortions should be illegal UNLESS the mother's life is in danger. If there exists such complications, then a late-term abortion is okay.
BigSky
Posts: 141
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3/12/2013 10:55:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 4:26:07 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM, StephTheStudent wrote:
Hello everyone, this is for a college project that I have to write on online deliberation - so please participate and help me out!

As everyone knows abortion is a very controversial issue in the United States, and it does not appear to be going away any time soon. Many people tend to be rather polarized on this issue, but there are also the gray areas where it becomes confusing - maybe abortion is acceptable in these circumstances, maybe it should be regulated like this, etc.



-Should abortion be completely legal, or completely illegal?
-Or what are certain regulations or circumstances in which possible laws could/should have exceptions? Age restrictions, health reasons, rape cases, insurance policies, cost, etc?
If the baby could not survive outside the womb, abortion is justified. If not, then it is not justified.
-Is making abortions illegal a violation of the woman's rights?
Yes, until a certain point.
Or is maybe allowing abortions a violation of the unborn child's life?
It's simply the denial of goods. Nothing wrong with that.
-How could this debate be solved?

That is a highly opinionated and biased claim. This needs to be left up to the state, for people decide. That is how the issue shpuld be solved. Personally I believe abortion is bad, why does the child suffer for the mistakes of others, and if the mother is raped, blame the rapist, but don't punish the child for the parent's wrongdoing. It really isn't that hard to simply have the child, and them put it up for adoption. If the mother's life is in true danger, only then can it justified.
BigSky
Posts: 141
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3/12/2013 10:56:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 10:22:24 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Abort them all. Controversy won't last for long.

That's sick.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/12/2013 11:23:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:05:07 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:03:27 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM, StephTheStudent wrote:
Hello everyone, this is for a college project that I have to write on online
-How could this debate be solved?

by shifting the question to a privacy rights issue and noting that no one wants the government to have the power to make a medical procedure illegal.

But they can have the power to stop whole pipelines from being built to protect a few forests and animals?

Mind you the same pipeline that would increase economic activity in hard times.

And this has what to do with privacy rights or abortion?

If you believe some other injustice is being done, start a thread. Your pointless rhetoric serves no purpose here.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/13/2013 12:47:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM, StephTheStudent wrote:
Hello everyone, this is for a college project that I have to write on online deliberation - so please participate and help me out!

As everyone knows abortion is a very controversial issue in the United States, and it does not appear to be going away any time soon. Many people tend to be rather polarized on this issue, but there are also the gray areas where it becomes confusing - maybe abortion is acceptable in these circumstances, maybe it should be regulated like this, etc.



-Should abortion be completely legal, or completely illegal?
-Or what are certain regulations or circumstances in which possible laws could/should have exceptions? Age restrictions, health reasons, rape cases, insurance policies, cost, etc?
If the child cannot reasonably be expected to survive outside the womb, an abortion should be allowed for any reason (outside of coersion). After this point, an abortion should not be allowed for any reason, except when the life of the mother is in jeopardy (and even this is debateable).
-Is making abortions illegal a violation of the woman's rights?
Up to the point when the child absolutely needs the mother to survive, yes. After that, no.
Or is maybe allowing abortions a violation of the unborn child's life?
The fetus has no right to life if it is solely dependant upon the womb; it is a parasite at this point. After it can survive on its own, it has the right to life.
-How could this debate be solved?
By realizing the following:
1. Morality should not be legislated. Personally, I abhor abortions and consider them murder (though not the legal definition of murder), but think they should be legal avenues, up to that point (about five months or so).

2. By saying the unborn has rights, it opens up a legal quagmire. If I punch a woman who is one-month pregnant, is that assualt on a minor? If the mother miscarries due to foreseen circumstances (stress, history of them, drinking) is this not manslaughter? If the baby kills the mother, is this a crime?

3. Making abortions illegal, except in rape cases, it will increase the likelihood of false rape accusations.

4. If the claim is the unborn child has a right to life, it is hypocritical to deny that right for ANY reason. There should be zero exceptions to abortion, if the fetus has a right to live. (Again, the mother's endangerment is debateable)

And by enacting the following:
By allowing the fathers to terminate the baby's custody. By this, I mean since the mother ultimately has the right to keep or abort the child, why does the father have no recourse? He should be able to sign something saying he is not liable for any support of any kind (i.e. a metphorical abortion), and in kind, he has no rights to visitation, child-rearing decisions, future earnings, tax credits, etc.
My work here is, finally, done.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/13/2013 12:52:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 12:47:02 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

[lot of stuff]

So, the privacy issues that have dominated the abortion question, legally, since Roe v Wade don't matter...it's all about the life of the baby?

I believe what you're saying is that women have a right to an abortion, until they don't.

This may be true, but I fail to see where this argument can be supported, legally.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/13/2013 4:09:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 12:52:21 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/13/2013 12:47:02 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

[lot of stuff]

So, the privacy issues that have dominated the abortion question, legally, since Roe v Wade don't matter...
I consider this largely moot, as if the child is alive (by legal standards), it, too, has rights, which would trump the privacy exercised in killing the child.

For example, the doctor would be murdering the child, at the behest of the mother. Doctor/patient privelige shouldn't apply, since there was a third party involved (the baby), which negates expectation of privacy (possibly).

More to the point, your right to privacy is trumped if you are committing a crime (see: old-school non-Patriot Act wiretaps).

it's all about the life of the baby?
It is about whether the baby is "alive", yes.

I believe what you're saying is that women have a right to an abortion, until they don't.
I do believe this is what the Court ruled. Don't they mention the age of viability? Regardless, they did say that the state can regulate/consider the stage of pregnency? If not, how can "late-term" abortions be illegal where they are illegal?

This may be true, but I fail to see where this argument can be supported, legally.
In Gonzales v. Carhart, SCOTUS held that late-term abortions bans can be enacted. (i.e. a woman can have an abortion until she can't).
If you don't like my rationale, then try theirs.
My work here is, finally, done.
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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3/13/2013 4:57:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:31:47 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:16:18 PM, StephTheStudent wrote:
re regulations or circumstances in which possible laws could/should have exceptions? Age restrictions, health reasons, rape cases, insurance policies, cost, etc?
-Is making abortions illegal a violation of the woman's rights? Or is maybe allowing abortions a violation of the unborn child's life?
-How could this debate be solved?

Allow abortion when it threatens the mother's life, and in cases of rape or incest.

I never got this argument. If you're pro choice, what difference does it make how the baby was conceived? Life is life. Doesn't matter if it was conceived violently or consensually.

In fact, I find this one sexist. The sublime message is against pleasurable sex, the child is to be the layered punishment to a women daring to have consensual sex. When its rape, the woman isn't at fault, hence its 'allowed'.
Allow abortions to occur in the first and second trimesters. Ban late term abortion (3rd trimester).

That's mostly pro choice, but has some appeal to those who are pro life. A fetus more closely resembles a baby in the 3rd trimester.