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Fair Tax of 2011

lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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3/12/2013 4:50:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The best tax is one in which individuals can choose on their tax return where to allocate their tax money. This demands responsibility, accountability, and creates representation. Furthermore, it pretty much automatically defunds the military and many other small programs.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?
lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).
lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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3/12/2013 5:19:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Wouldn't that hurt the Middle Class?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,207
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3/12/2013 5:27:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:19:55 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Wouldn't that hurt the Middle Class?

Politicians and the rich people that purchase politicians want absolutely nothing to do with a national sales tax that would strip politicians of the power to borrow and spend by holding them accountable to the poor.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/12/2013 5:29:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Would be regressive.

Instead America should use a 15% flat tax. This will easily reduce the national debt after spending cuts take effect.

End payroll taxation by phasing out entitlements.

The flat tax is simple, fair, and is truly equal. It is a pro-growth tax plan that would increase savings and investment. More economic growth and higher job creation.

The regressive part of the sales tax is its biggest downfall, and the disastrous effect on gas prices, housing prices, et cetera.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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3/12/2013 5:31:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:29:17 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Would be regressive.

Instead America should use a 15% flat tax. This will easily reduce the national debt after spending cuts take effect.

End payroll taxation by phasing out entitlements.

The flat tax is simple, fair, and is truly equal. It is a pro-growth tax plan that would increase savings and investment. More economic growth and higher job creation.

The regressive part of the sales tax is its biggest downfall, and the disastrous effect on gas prices, housing prices, et cetera.

I agree that the flatt tax is probably the best tax system.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 5:42:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:19:55 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Wouldn't that hurt the Middle Class?

No.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 5:46:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:29:17 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Would be regressive.

Instead America should use a 15% flat tax. This will easily reduce the national debt after spending cuts take effect.

End payroll taxation by phasing out entitlements.

The flat tax is simple, fair, and is truly equal. It is a pro-growth tax plan that would increase savings and investment. More economic growth and higher job creation.

The regressive part of the sales tax is its biggest downfall, and the disastrous effect on gas prices, housing prices, et cetera.

I am more for the flat tax, but I think the sales tax is a better alternative to what we have now.
lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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3/12/2013 5:46:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:42:27 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:19:55 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Wouldn't that hurt the Middle Class?

No.

But you would have a car that is normal worth 20,000 it would be worth 26000. The boost looks like it would definately hurt the economy.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 5:50:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:29:17 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Would be regressive.

Instead America should use a 15% flat tax. This will easily reduce the national debt after spending cuts take effect.

End payroll taxation by phasing out entitlements.

The flat tax is simple, fair, and is truly equal. It is a pro-growth tax plan that would increase savings and investment. More economic growth and higher job creation.

: The regressive part of the sales tax is its biggest downfall, and the disastrous effect on gas prices, housing prices, et cetera.


The prices will increase, but people will get 100% of their income back, so the blow will be cushioned by the extra income people receive, it should balance out by the time it's said and done.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 5:51:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:46:48 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:42:27 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:19:55 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Wouldn't that hurt the Middle Class?

No.

But you would have a car that is normal worth 20,000 it would be worth 26000. The boost looks like it would definately hurt the economy.

Not when people get 100% of their paycheck, the extra income cushions the blow, if not completely eradicates it.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/12/2013 5:59:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:50:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:29:17 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Would be regressive.

Instead America should use a 15% flat tax. This will easily reduce the national debt after spending cuts take effect.

End payroll taxation by phasing out entitlements.

The flat tax is simple, fair, and is truly equal. It is a pro-growth tax plan that would increase savings and investment. More economic growth and higher job creation.

: The regressive part of the sales tax is its biggest downfall, and the disastrous effect on gas prices, housing prices, et cetera.


The prices will increase, but people will get 100% of their income back, so the blow will be cushioned by the extra income people receive, it should balance out by the time it's said and done.

Except "extra income back" diminishes as you talk about lower and lower payscales. If you're under the poverty line and not taxed, you'll only experience a major tax increase.

The people who gain most from receiving their income back will be those who make well over the amount needed to comfortably sustain themselves and having savings/investments.

It'd be absolutely devastating to the lower class and those who can't afford to save or invest large portions of their income.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 6:01:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:59:51 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:50:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:29:17 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Would be regressive.

Instead America should use a 15% flat tax. This will easily reduce the national debt after spending cuts take effect.

End payroll taxation by phasing out entitlements.

The flat tax is simple, fair, and is truly equal. It is a pro-growth tax plan that would increase savings and investment. More economic growth and higher job creation.

: The regressive part of the sales tax is its biggest downfall, and the disastrous effect on gas prices, housing prices, et cetera.


The prices will increase, but people will get 100% of their income back, so the blow will be cushioned by the extra income people receive, it should balance out by the time it's said and done.

Except "extra income back" diminishes as you talk about lower and lower payscales. If you're under the poverty line and not taxed, you'll only experience a major tax increase.

The people who gain most from receiving their income back will be those who make well over the amount needed to comfortably sustain themselves and having savings/investments.

It'd be absolutely devastating to the lower class and those who can't afford to save or invest large portions of their income.

You're terribly right, but most of us on this nice little website don't agree with the redistribution of wealth, so that doesn't change my stance at all. :)
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/12/2013 6:02:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 6:01:37 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:59:51 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:50:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:29:17 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:02:31 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:54:47 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:50:43 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 4:45:59 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What is the Fair tax of 2011? Do you support it or oppose it? What's your views? Discuss.

It would abolish the income tax and allow only sales taxes.

I support it.

It would eliminate the childish basis of class warfare, it would give people their full income back (so it wouldn't discourage investment and purchases as liberals and 'progressives' try to claim it would, instead of getting the money taken out of your paycheck, it will be taken out of your purchases, so it would even itself out), and it would ultimately only allow the government to be as large as the economy. If the economy is weak, the government will no longer by taking excessive amounts of money from people in a poor economy, if it is doing good, the government will be reaping the benefits and will be able to put aside some surplus money for harder times.

Any objections, my leftist amigos?

What would be the increase in the sales tax?

With a 15-16 trillion dollar economy, a 15% sales tax would be fine. (Generates 2-2.2 trillion in revenue).

Would be regressive.

Instead America should use a 15% flat tax. This will easily reduce the national debt after spending cuts take effect.

End payroll taxation by phasing out entitlements.

The flat tax is simple, fair, and is truly equal. It is a pro-growth tax plan that would increase savings and investment. More economic growth and higher job creation.

: The regressive part of the sales tax is its biggest downfall, and the disastrous effect on gas prices, housing prices, et cetera.


The prices will increase, but people will get 100% of their income back, so the blow will be cushioned by the extra income people receive, it should balance out by the time it's said and done.

Except "extra income back" diminishes as you talk about lower and lower payscales. If you're under the poverty line and not taxed, you'll only experience a major tax increase.

The people who gain most from receiving their income back will be those who make well over the amount needed to comfortably sustain themselves and having savings/investments.

It'd be absolutely devastating to the lower class and those who can't afford to save or invest large portions of their income.

You're terribly right, but most of us on this nice little website don't agree with the redistribution of wealth, so that doesn't change my stance at all. :)

Do you care about the American economy? We are a consumer nation with most jobs based in the domestic service industry.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/12/2013 6:03:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The middle class pay effective tax rates probably about 8-14%. It would probably be a tax increase on the middle class.

With the flat tax, I think a tax credit (nonrefundable) for saving in one's health savings account would be a good policy (it should only be about $2500 though).
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/12/2013 6:04:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, you can bet your @ss you're going to create a major black market for all goods when you artificially increase prices of legal goods. Black market money will get sucked up to suppliers and distributors from other countries or who won't pay taxes on their goods.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 6:05:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 6:03:58 PM, Contra wrote:
The middle class pay effective tax rates probably about 8-14%. It would probably be a tax increase on the middle class.

With the flat tax, I think a tax credit (nonrefundable) for saving in one's health savings account would be a good policy (it should only be about $2500 though).

So, you don't agree w/ a minimum taxable income?
ConservativeAmerican
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3/12/2013 6:06:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 6:04:46 PM, Wnope wrote:
Also, you can bet your @ss you're going to create a major black market for all goods when you artificially increase prices of legal goods. Black market money will get sucked up to suppliers and distributors from other countries or who won't pay taxes on their goods.

Cigarettes are taxed up the arse, there isn't some booming black market for them. What makes other items any different?
Contra
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3/12/2013 6:09:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 6:05:56 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 6:03:58 PM, Contra wrote:
The middle class pay effective tax rates probably about 8-14%. It would probably be a tax increase on the middle class.

With the flat tax, I think a tax credit (nonrefundable) for saving in one's health savings account would be a good policy (it should only be about $2500 though).

So, you don't agree w/ a minimum taxable income?

No I think that allowing individuals/ families to set aside $2500 pretax into a personal health savings account would be a good idea.

That would actually be a tax deduction I guess, so I messed up on the terminology.

So, if a family made $50,000, and there was that one tax deduction worth say $4500, they could put that much in their HSA, and their taxable income would drop to $45,000.

So basically all people should pay the flat tax. The vast majority of people would.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/12/2013 6:11:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 6:09:13 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/12/2013 6:05:56 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 6:03:58 PM, Contra wrote:
The middle class pay effective tax rates probably about 8-14%. It would probably be a tax increase on the middle class.

With the flat tax, I think a tax credit (nonrefundable) for saving in one's health savings account would be a good policy (it should only be about $2500 though).

So, you don't agree w/ a minimum taxable income?

No I think that allowing individuals/ families to set aside $2500 pretax into a personal health savings account would be a good idea.

That would actually be a tax deduction I guess, so I messed up on the terminology.

So, if a family made $50,000, and there was that one tax deduction worth say $4500, they could put that much in their HSA, and their taxable income would drop to $45,000.

So basically all people should pay the flat tax. The vast majority of people would.

So you want the marginal tax rates to be 15%, you still haven't directly answered my question, I will be more precise. Do you want a minimum effective taxable income?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,207
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3/12/2013 6:12:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 6:04:46 PM, Wnope wrote:
Also, you can bet your @ss you're going to create a major black market for all goods when you artificially increase prices of legal goods. Black market money will get sucked up to suppliers and distributors from other countries or who won't pay taxes on their goods.

Like there isn't already a black market on labor to avoid income tax? Getting paid under the table, migrant workers, tax shelters...?

Do you really think the poor will never feel the effects of an economy that has reached a cap on national loans? It's just degrees of suffering we are talking about here. The voting poor are the only demographic standing in the way of unaccountable politicians.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/12/2013 6:18:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 6:11:55 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 6:09:13 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/12/2013 6:05:56 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 6:03:58 PM, Contra wrote:
The middle class pay effective tax rates probably about 8-14%. It would probably be a tax increase on the middle class.

With the flat tax, I think a tax credit (nonrefundable) for saving in one's health savings account would be a good policy (it should only be about $2500 though).

So, you don't agree w/ a minimum taxable income?

No I think that allowing individuals/ families to set aside $2500 pretax into a personal health savings account would be a good idea.

That would actually be a tax deduction I guess, so I messed up on the terminology.

So, if a family made $50,000, and there was that one tax deduction worth say $4500, they could put that much in their HSA, and their taxable income would drop to $45,000.

So basically all people should pay the flat tax. The vast majority of people would.

So you want the marginal tax rates to be 15%, you still haven't directly answered my question, I will be more precise. Do you want a minimum effective taxable income?

I think I understand your question. Do I support a minimum effective taxable income? Yes. Anything over $2500 I guess, anything over the value of the HSA tax deduction.

Your income should be taxed at the 15% flat tax rate -- always, regardless of where you are on the income ladder. However, the tax deduction should reduce your taxable income.

If you put none of your income into your personal HSA, you would pay the full 15%. Most people would pay close to that 15% rate, maybe somewhat less (using the earlier example, that $50K family would pay about 13.5% tax rate).
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/13/2013 2:58:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 6:06:53 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 6:04:46 PM, Wnope wrote:
Also, you can bet your @ss you're going to create a major black market for all goods when you artificially increase prices of legal goods. Black market money will get sucked up to suppliers and distributors from other countries or who won't pay taxes on their goods.

Cigarettes are taxed up the arse, there isn't some booming black market for them. What makes other items any different?

Well....not quite.

http://money.cnn.com...

60% of cigs sold in NY are smuggled, and that's JUST with normal tax + sin tax. Imagine what happens when you odd on that national sales tax.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/13/2013 3:02:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 2:58:15 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 3/12/2013 6:06:53 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 3/12/2013 6:04:46 PM, Wnope wrote:
Also, you can bet your @ss you're going to create a major black market for all goods when you artificially increase prices of legal goods. Black market money will get sucked up to suppliers and distributors from other countries or who won't pay taxes on their goods.

Cigarettes are taxed up the arse, there isn't some booming black market for them. What makes other items any different?

Well....not quite.

http://money.cnn.com...

60% of cigs sold in NY are smuggled, and that's JUST with normal tax + sin tax. Imagine what happens when you odd on that national sales tax.

Fair enough, but this isn't seen in states where the cigarattes are moderately taxed. NY taxes their cigarattes at like $4.50 per pack, 15% of a 4 dollar pack of cigarettes is like 60 cents per pack.