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Greatest Leaders of Past 200 Years

BigRat
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3/18/2013 4:20:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Who are your favorite political leaders (I mean from the USA or the UK) in the past 200 or so years and why?

Here are mine (not necessarily in this order):

1.) Ronald Reagan- Helped end the Cold War and finally take down the "Evil Empire". He also supported a return to free market economic policies which worked very well in ending the stagflation of the late 1970s and allowing the USA to achieve two decades of strong and stable growth. He wasn't an anti statist or libertarian, but his rhetorical opposition to statist economic policies helped lead to more public support for sound, market based economic policies.

2.) Winston Churchill- A great UK leader who helped take down Nazism. He was also a virulent anti communist before it was cool to be. His famous wit and rhetorical skills were put to good use in defending Western values as well as opposing socialist ideologies.

3.) Calvin Coolidge- Perhaps one of the most forgotten of the great leaders. He was a truly good man who's calm, quiet intellect and opposition to state interference contributed to nearly eight years of incredible economic growth and prosperity (not to mention surpluses).

4.) Thomas Jefferson (technically not in the last 200 years but close enough)- A man who fought against state power (as well as the corporations who wanted to take advantage of this). He was a fan of Adam Smith and liberty in general. His time in office saw a shrinking of the state. He was able to cut taxes, run surpluses, and still oversaw the Louisiana Purchase (which was not free).

5.) George Washington- Philisophically, Washington was not distinct. However, his incredible character and humility set precedents for the office of the presidency that would lift the esteem of the office and, perhaps, save the USA from falling into tyranny.

6.) Margaret Thatcher- The Iron Lady oversaw some much needed economic reforms that really did save UK's economy from the brink.

7.) William Gladstone- A champion of (classical) liberalism and markets against the nobility of the time. It's too bad that liberalism has descended into its modern, statist manifestation. Once upon a time, liberalism was a well informed and logical ideology that endorsed freedom and rational market based thinking.

8.) Bill Clinton- Bill Clinton wasn't incredible in any sense. But, he was a great politician who's willingness to compromise to enact pragmatic legislation led to some much needed reforms (NAFTA, welfare reform, and spending restraint).

9.) Dwight Eisenhower- Another leader who was not incredible. However, he, like Clinton, oversaw eight years of strong economic growth and sound public finances.

10.) Grover Cleveland- Yet another solid leader who defended fiscal and monetary sanity against very strong (and misinformed) opposition from populists like William Jennings Bryant.
BigRat
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3/18/2013 4:20:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, George Washington isn't technically in the last 200 years either but he is close enough.
YYW
Posts: 36,240
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3/18/2013 4:38:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 4:20:05 PM, BigRat wrote:
Who are your favorite political leaders (I mean from the USA or the UK) in the past 200 or so years and why?

Here are mine (not necessarily in this order):

1.) Ronald Reagan- Helped end the Cold War and finally take down the "Evil Empire". He also supported a return to free market economic policies which worked very well in ending the stagflation of the late 1970s and allowing the USA to achieve two decades of strong and stable growth. He wasn't an anti statist or libertarian, but his rhetorical opposition to statist economic policies helped lead to more public support for sound, market based economic policies.

There were many positive qualities about Reagan. There were several negative attributes to his presidential tenure as well. It's amusing to me how the "myth of Reagan" is the public memory of his service rather than the breadth of his accomplishments/shortcomings.

2.) Winston Churchill- A great UK leader who helped take down Nazism. He was also a virulent anti communist before it was cool to be. His famous wit and rhetorical skills were put to good use in defending Western values as well as opposing socialist ideologies.

Churchill probably had the sharpest tongue of any statesman in his time.

3.) Calvin Coolidge- Perhaps one of the most forgotten of the great leaders. He was a truly good man who's calm, quiet intellect and opposition to state interference contributed to nearly eight years of incredible economic growth and prosperity (not to mention surpluses).

I enjoy the libertarian fetish for Coolidge.

4.) Thomas Jefferson (technically not in the last 200 years but close enough)- A man who fought against state power (as well as the corporations who wanted to take advantage of this). He was a fan of Adam Smith and liberty in general. His time in office saw a shrinking of the state. He was able to cut taxes, run surpluses, and still oversaw the Louisiana Purchase (which was not free).

Do we judge him by his writing before he was president or his presidency -perhaps both? I'd say both, for reasons that a diligent student of jeffersonian history would find amusing.

5.) George Washington- Philisophically, Washington was not distinct. However, his incredible character and humility set precedents for the office of the presidency that would lift the esteem of the office and, perhaps, save the USA from falling into tyranny.

It would have been more likely that the colonies after the end of the Revolutionary War would have fallen into disorganized chaos, not tyranny -but whatever.

6.) Margaret Thatcher- The Iron Lady oversaw some much needed economic reforms that really did save UK's economy from the brink.

Gotta love the Iron Lady.

7.) William Gladstone- A champion of (classical) liberalism and markets against the nobility of the time. It's too bad that liberalism has descended into its modern, statist manifestation. Once upon a time, liberalism was a well informed and logical ideology that endorsed freedom and rational market based thinking.

So, liberalism is now neither well informed, logical or based on rational market thinking? Oh, great political philosophe, do share with us your wisdom!

8.) Bill Clinton- Bill Clinton wasn't incredible in any sense. But, he was a great politician who's willingness to compromise to enact pragmatic legislation led to some much needed reforms (NAFTA, welfare reform, and spending restraint).

My favorite president... probably.

9.) Dwight Eisenhower- Another leader who was not incredible. However, he, like Clinton, oversaw eight years of strong economic growth and sound public finances.

Ike wasn't bad.

10.) Grover Cleveland- Yet another solid leader who defended fiscal and monetary sanity against very strong (and misinformed) opposition from populists like William Jennings Bryant.

Bah.
YYW
Posts: 36,240
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3/18/2013 4:39:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 4:20:53 PM, BigRat wrote:
Also, George Washington isn't technically in the last 200 years either but he is close enough.

lol whatever... you were the OP.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/18/2013 4:44:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Bill Clinton was also willing to fire a cruise missile into a third world country's main medical production facility, probably in order to distract the public from an inconvenient blowjob. Combine that with his ambivalence towards things like the Indonesian occupation of East Timor and his popularity says more about Americans than it does about him.

I think that scientists and artists bring about every positive accomplishment in the world, despite the best efforts of most politicians. When politicians do 'good' it usually involves foiling the aims of worse men than themselves, not the creation any real benefit.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/18/2013 5:02:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ronald Reagan was a good president, and his economic policies were favorable towards markets and economic growth. His great ability to communicate, his charisma and nostalgia make him a great leader.

Bill Clinton, was for the most part one of the *best* Democratic presidents. Hillary would also probably be a tolerable Democrat, if she was open to compromise and was a pragmatist.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
MichaelGonzales
Posts: 211
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3/18/2013 5:57:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 4:44:38 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
probably in order to distract the public from an inconvenient blowjob.

Inconvenient for who? :P

I've always been of the philosophy that if you produce the greatest decade of economic growth, you get a blowjob. It's just kind of the least we can do.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/18/2013 6:01:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I haven't any. This is because individuals of authentic enlightenment and integrity don't rise to the level of national leaders in our polity.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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3/18/2013 6:03:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 5:57:34 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 3/18/2013 4:44:38 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
probably in order to distract the public from an inconvenient blowjob.

Inconvenient for who? :P

I've always been of the philosophy that if you produce the greatest decade of economic growth, you get a blowjob. It's just kind of the least we can do.

My, what credit you give Bill Clinton for something that he deserves zero credit for.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Contra
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3/18/2013 6:07:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 6:03:12 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/18/2013 5:57:34 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 3/18/2013 4:44:38 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
probably in order to distract the public from an inconvenient blowjob.

Inconvenient for who? :P

I've always been of the philosophy that if you produce the greatest decade of economic growth, you get a blowjob. It's just kind of the least we can do.

My, what credit you give Bill Clinton for something that he deserves zero credit for.

+1
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/18/2013 6:12:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 5:57:34 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
At 3/18/2013 4:44:38 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
probably in order to distract the public from an inconvenient blowjob.

Inconvenient for who? :P

I've always been of the philosophy that if you produce the greatest decade of economic growth, you get a blowjob. It's just kind of the least we can do.

The president has little control over the economy, and he certainly didn't do anything which contributed to real innovation and production. Al Gore didn't invent the internet, and neither did Bill Clinton. What the president does have control over is foreign policy, and the over 100,000 deaths due to drug shortages in a country plagued by malaria brought about by a moment of trigger-happy 'presidentiality' reflects poorly on Mr. Clinton, as does his silent consent as Suharto's butchers slaughtered and starved innocents with weapons purchased with our taxpayer dollars.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
charleslb
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3/18/2013 6:17:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 5:02:08 PM, Contra wrote:
Ronald Reagan was a good president, and his economic policies were favorable towards markets and economic growth. His great ability to communicate, his charisma and nostalgia make him a great leader.

Ronald Reagan was an ethically bad president and man. His economic policies were favorable to the economic elite and the devolution of our economic system into what James K. Galbraith has termed a predator state, one in which financial power players are sufficiently deregulated to cause global crises like the one we currently find ourselves coping with. And as for his charisma and communication skills, well, such gifts are merely a matter of style, which, yes, is one component of being a great leader, but not without substance, which Reagan utterly lacked.

Bill Clinton, was for the most part one of the *best* Democratic presidents. Hillary would also probably be a tolerable Democrat, if she was open to compromise and was a pragmatist.

Clinton, as conservatives are wont to point out, plagiarized most of their platform, ripped off their reckless deregulating and cruel social safety net-dismantling agenda. Except for not being anti-choice and anti-gay, he really belonged in the GOP. In short, he was a quite dismal excuse for an allegedly liberal Democrat.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
OMGJustinBieber
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3/18/2013 6:26:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 5:56:23 PM, MichaelGonzales wrote:
No mention of FDR? *sad face*

Oh come on, where would you have put him? Did I hear replace Coolidge? Madman.
Contra
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3/18/2013 7:12:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 6:17:06 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/18/2013 5:02:08 PM, Contra wrote:
Ronald Reagan was a good president, and his economic policies were favorable towards markets and economic growth. His great ability to communicate, his charisma and nostalgia make him a great leader.

Ronald Reagan was an ethically bad president and man.

This is not true. He had a good values system. One time, he met this man, and the man said that he was broke and desperate. So Reagan gave him $1000 (this was during the 1980s). Later, Reagan heard from this man again, who said that he was still suffering, because he had put the $1000 Reagan gave him on the wall because -- heck it was from the President! So the President gave the guy another $1000 but told him to use the cash this time.

His economic policies were favorable to the economic elite and the devolution of our economic system into what James K. Galbraith has termed a predator state, one in which financial power players are sufficiently deregulated to cause global crises like the one we currently find ourselves coping with.

Millions of new jobs, middle class incomes rose by over $4,000 (have fallen by the same amount in the Obama years), inflation drastically fell, and the economy thrived.

Poverty rates fell, and the Soviet Union crumbled trying to match the American defense buildup.

It was a time of economic prosperity, and while yes the income gap did increase, the rich got richer, but the poor also got richer by a good size.

And as for his charisma and communication skills, well, such gifts are merely a matter of style, which, yes, is one component of being a great leader, but not without substance, which Reagan utterly lacked.

He had substance, his promises of tax cuts and a stronger national defense were fulfilled. Sure, he did increase the drug war, but economically, he was in the right direction.

Bill Clinton, was for the most part one of the *best* Democratic presidents. Hillary would also probably be a tolerable Democrat, if she was open to compromise and was a pragmatist.

Clinton, as conservatives are wont to point out, plagiarized most of their platform, ripped off their reckless deregulating and cruel social safety net-dismantling agenda. Except for not being anti-choice and anti-gay, he really belonged in the GOP. In short, he was a quite dismal excuse for an allegedly liberal Democrat.

Clinton pursued national health insurance, and created SCHIP. Clinton also increased federal spending on schools. Otherwise you are mostly correct.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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3/18/2013 8:02:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There are too good leaders to list, so I'll just post a few:

Abigail Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Joan of Arc, Rachel Carson, Hatshepsut, Betty Friedan, Rosalind Franklin, Maria Montessori (education work), Rosa Parks, Friedrich Engels (for his feminist writings), Karl Marx, John Brown, Nat Turner, Nestor Makhno, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Sojourner Truth
drhead
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3/18/2013 10:22:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think that, while not technically a leader, Gandhi should at least have some sort of honorable mention in this. As a peace activist, he has had more influence over modern-day politics than any other one person, not just in his own country, but everywhere.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
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BigRat
Posts: 465
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3/18/2013 10:56:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 4:38:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/18/2013 4:20:05 PM, BigRat wrote:
Who are your favorite political leaders (I mean from the USA or the UK) in the past 200 or so years and why?

Here are mine (not necessarily in this order):

1.) Ronald Reagan- Helped end the Cold War and finally take down the "Evil Empire". He also supported a return to free market economic policies which worked very well in ending the stagflation of the late 1970s and allowing the USA to achieve two decades of strong and stable growth. He wasn't an anti statist or libertarian, but his rhetorical opposition to statist economic policies helped lead to more public support for sound, market based economic policies.

There were many positive qualities about Reagan. There were several negative attributes to his presidential tenure as well. It's amusing to me how the "myth of Reagan" is the public memory of his service rather than the breadth of his accomplishments/shortcomings.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "myth of Reagan".


2.) Winston Churchill- A great UK leader who helped take down Nazism. He was also a virulent anti communist before it was cool to be. His famous wit and rhetorical skills were put to good use in defending Western values as well as opposing socialist ideologies.

Churchill probably had the sharpest tongue of any statesman in his time.

3.) Calvin Coolidge- Perhaps one of the most forgotten of the great leaders. He was a truly good man who's calm, quiet intellect and opposition to state interference contributed to nearly eight years of incredible economic growth and prosperity (not to mention surpluses).

I enjoy the libertarian fetish for Coolidge.

Not so much a libertarian fetish. He was an excellent president. The only critique of him is "he didn't do anything!" which turned out to be a good thing.


4.) Thomas Jefferson (technically not in the last 200 years but close enough)- A man who fought against state power (as well as the corporations who wanted to take advantage of this). He was a fan of Adam Smith and liberty in general. His time in office saw a shrinking of the state. He was able to cut taxes, run surpluses, and still oversaw the Louisiana Purchase (which was not free).

Do we judge him by his writing before he was president or his presidency -perhaps both? I'd say both, for reasons that a diligent student of jeffersonian history would find amusing.


How so?

5.) George Washington- Philisophically, Washington was not distinct. However, his incredible character and humility set precedents for the office of the presidency that would lift the esteem of the office and, perhaps, save the USA from falling into tyranny.

It would have been more likely that the colonies after the end of the Revolutionary War would have fallen into disorganized chaos, not tyranny -but whatever.

Not really. Tyranny was quite a real risk.


6.) Margaret Thatcher- The Iron Lady oversaw some much needed economic reforms that really did save UK's economy from the brink.

Gotta love the Iron Lady.

7.) William Gladstone- A champion of (classical) liberalism and markets against the nobility of the time. It's too bad that liberalism has descended into its modern, statist manifestation. Once upon a time, liberalism was a well informed and logical ideology that endorsed freedom and rational market based thinking.

So, liberalism is now neither well informed, logical or based on rational market thinking? Oh, great political philosophe, do share with us your wisdom!

The philosophy we call modern liberalism is anti market and, therefore, both ill informed and irrational.


8.) Bill Clinton- Bill Clinton wasn't incredible in any sense. But, he was a great politician who's willingness to compromise to enact pragmatic legislation led to some much needed reforms (NAFTA, welfare reform, and spending restraint).

My favorite president... probably.

I included Clinton on this list. But, come on, he really isn't a favorite...


9.) Dwight Eisenhower- Another leader who was not incredible. However, he, like Clinton, oversaw eight years of strong economic growth and sound public finances.

Ike wasn't bad.

10.) Grover Cleveland- Yet another solid leader who defended fiscal and monetary sanity against very strong (and misinformed) opposition from populists like William Jennings Bryant.

Bah.
BigRat
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3/18/2013 10:57:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 8:02:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are too good leaders to list, so I'll just post a few:

Abigail Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Joan of Arc, Rachel Carson, Hatshepsut, Betty Friedan, Rosalind Franklin, Maria Montessori (education work), Rosa Parks, Friedrich Engels (for his feminist writings), Karl Marx, John Brown, Nat Turner, Nestor Makhno, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Sojourner Truth

Not many good leaders here. Karl Marx is (partially) responsible for the most destructive ideology to ever exist.

These just seem like a bunch of anti market, irrational "thinkers" who did more to hurt the world than help.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/18/2013 11:25:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 5:02:08 PM, Contra wrote:
Ronald Reagan was a good president, and his economic policies were favorable towards markets and economic growth. His great ability to communicate, his charisma and nostalgia make him a great leader.

So, you're a fan of higher Federal Taxes? Reagan instituted 6 of the top 10 highest tax increases in US history as either measured in constant dollars or as a percentage of GDP.

http://www.factcheck.org...

Even with those tax increases, the deficit tripled in Reagan's tenure and thus began the era of the fiscal cliff.

Reagan was the Tax and Spend MASTER. Everyone's total US Federal Taxes increased after Reagan's stint in office, except the top bracket, who saw a massive cut in taxes.

It's the whole reason Bush had to do the whole "Read My Lips" stuff.

Bill Clinton, was for the most part one of the *best* Democratic presidents. Hillary would also probably be a tolerable Democrat, if she was open to compromise and was a pragmatist.

All Hilary was in the senate was compromise. I wish she would have gotten the DNP nod in '08 instead of Obama.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
charleslb
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3/19/2013 1:21:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 8:02:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are too good leaders to list, so I'll just post a few:

Abigail Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Joan of Arc, Rachel Carson, Hatshepsut, Betty Friedan, Rosalind Franklin, Maria Montessori (education work), Rosa Parks, Friedrich Engels (for his feminist writings), Karl Marx, John Brown, Nat Turner, Nestor Makhno, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Sojourner Truth

I certainly agree with all of these nominees (especially John Brown and Marx, they both had substantially more radical enlightenment than their fellow abolitionists and socialists); and would add a few names, such as Angela Davis, Ralph Nader, and Noam Chomsky, etc. However, BigRat lists only presidents & prime ministers of the US and UK as examples, so within his parameters of Anglo-American Establishment figures I would still maintain that there are no authentically great leaders.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
1Percenter
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3/19/2013 1:54:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 11:25:47 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/18/2013 5:02:08 PM, Contra wrote:
Ronald Reagan was a good president, and his economic policies were favorable towards markets and economic growth. His great ability to communicate, his charisma and nostalgia make him a great leader.

So, you're a fan of higher Federal Taxes? Reagan instituted 6 of the top 10 highest tax increases in US history as either measured in constant dollars or as a percentage of GDP.

http://www.factcheck.org...

Even with those tax increases, the deficit tripled in Reagan's tenure and thus began the era of the fiscal cliff.
Many of those so-called tax increases are actually examples of ending deductions. Any tax increases pale in comparison to the cuts made to corporate and income taxes. A large part of the deficit was due to monetary policy cutting back rampant inflation from the Carter Administration. And defense spending.
According to Wiki: "...the major tax bills enacted under Reagan, in the short term, increased total tax revenue and reduced the tax burden on the economy (~-1% of GDP)"

Reagan was the Tax and Spend MASTER. Everyone's total US Federal Taxes increased after Reagan's stint in office, except the top bracket, who saw a massive cut in taxes.

That's only because the top income tax rate was slashed from a whopping 70% to 28%. Following the tax cuts, poverty rates fell, employment grew and the tax system was much flatter.
It's the whole reason Bush had to do the whole "Read My Lips" stuff.

Bill Clinton, was for the most part one of the *best* Democratic presidents. Hillary would also probably be a tolerable Democrat, if she was open to compromise and was a pragmatist.

All Hilary was in the senate was compromise. I wish she would have gotten the DNP nod in '08 instead of Obama.
BigRat
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3/19/2013 6:56:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/19/2013 1:21:27 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/18/2013 8:02:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are too good leaders to list, so I'll just post a few:

Abigail Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Joan of Arc, Rachel Carson, Hatshepsut, Betty Friedan, Rosalind Franklin, Maria Montessori (education work), Rosa Parks, Friedrich Engels (for his feminist writings), Karl Marx, John Brown, Nat Turner, Nestor Makhno, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Sojourner Truth

I certainly agree with all of these nominees (especially John Brown and Marx, they both had substantially more radical enlightenment than their fellow abolitionists and socialists); and would add a few names, such as Angela Davis, Ralph Nader, and Noam Chomsky, etc. However, BigRat lists only presidents & prime ministers of the US and UK as examples, so within his parameters of Anglo-American Establishment figures I would still maintain that there are no authentically great leaders.

We are all free to have our opinions, but what did Karl Marx do?

I mean, he was pretty much wrong about everything he said, he had no understanding of economics, and didn't even understand human nature or how cultures formed.

Most of the people listed here are pseudointellecual writers with ideas that have been shown to be wrong over and over again or attention whoring populists (Nader). All they seem to have in common is the wrongness of their ideas and their cheerleading for statism.
malcolmxy
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3/20/2013 1:25:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 8:02:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are too good leaders to list, so I'll just post a few:

Abigail Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Joan of Arc, Rachel Carson, Hatshepsut, Betty Friedan, Rosalind Franklin, Maria Montessori (education work), Rosa Parks, Friedrich Engels (for his feminist writings), Karl Marx, John Brown, Nat Turner, Nestor Makhno, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Sojourner Truth

Susan B. Anthony's speech to the Illinois Congress which was trying to prosecute her after she voted is my favorite American speech of all time.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
royalpaladin
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3/20/2013 5:16:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 10:57:59 PM, BigRat wrote:
At 3/18/2013 8:02:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are too good leaders to list, so I'll just post a few:

Abigail Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Joan of Arc, Rachel Carson, Hatshepsut, Betty Friedan, Rosalind Franklin, Maria Montessori (education work), Rosa Parks, Friedrich Engels (for his feminist writings), Karl Marx, John Brown, Nat Turner, Nestor Makhno, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Sojourner Truth


Not many good leaders here. Karl Marx is (partially) responsible for the most destructive ideology to ever exist.

No, Karl Marx is not any more responsible for fake communism than Jesus is for fake, fascist Christianity, which has killed more people and cost more lives throughout history than Communism ever has (meaning it is more destructive than fake Communism).

These people were all brilliant leaders.
These just seem like a bunch of anti market, irrational "thinkers" who did more to hurt the world than help.

You obviously don't even know who most of these people are. Very few of them were anti-market, lol.
royalpaladin
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3/20/2013 5:18:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
In fact, the majority of the people I listed were womens' rights advocates and anti-slavery and minority activists. They defended equality and freedom. Is that why you dislike them? How dare they advocate for freedom for women or campaign for the end of slavery! Those destructive rats!
royalpaladin
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3/20/2013 5:19:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/19/2013 1:21:27 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/18/2013 8:02:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are too good leaders to list, so I'll just post a few:

Abigail Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Joan of Arc, Rachel Carson, Hatshepsut, Betty Friedan, Rosalind Franklin, Maria Montessori (education work), Rosa Parks, Friedrich Engels (for his feminist writings), Karl Marx, John Brown, Nat Turner, Nestor Makhno, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Sojourner Truth

I certainly agree with all of these nominees (especially John Brown and Marx, they both had substantially more radical enlightenment than their fellow abolitionists and socialists); and would add a few names, such as Angela Davis, Ralph Nader, and Noam Chomsky, etc. However, BigRat lists only presidents & prime ministers of the US and UK as examples, so within his parameters of Anglo-American Establishment figures I would still maintain that there are no authentically great leaders.

I agree. He seems to think leaders are people who support destruction and enslavement.
Eitan_Zohar
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3/20/2013 8:41:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 8:02:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are too good leaders to list, so I'll just post a few:

Abigail Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Joan of Arc, Rachel Carson, Hatshepsut, Betty Friedan, Rosalind Franklin, Maria Montessori (education work), Rosa Parks, Friedrich Engels (for his feminist writings), Karl Marx, John Brown, Nat Turner, Nestor Makhno, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Sojourner Truth

Listing notable people who agreed with you or did things that coincide with your ideology does not count. Hatshepsut did not live in the last 200 years (but she was a woman, so f*ck it).
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."