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Tomas Young's0 dying letter to Bush/Cheney

Wallstreetatheist
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3/21/2013 1:47:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Full Letter: http://www.truthdig.com...

To: George W. Bush and Dick Cheney
From: Tomas Young


I write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War on behalf of my fellow Iraq War veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in Sadr City. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care.

I write this letter on behalf of husbands and wives who have lost spouses, on behalf of children who have lost a parent, on behalf of the fathers and mothers who have lost sons and daughters and on behalf of those who care for the many thousands of my fellow veterans who have brain injuries. I write this letter on behalf of those veterans whose trauma and self-revulsion for what they have witnessed, endured and done in Iraq have led to suicide and on behalf of the active-duty soldiers and Marines who commit, on average, a suicide a day. I write this letter on behalf of the some 1 million Iraqi dead and on behalf of the countless Iraqi wounded. I write this letter on behalf of us all"the human detritus your war has left behind, those who will spend their lives in unending pain and grief.

You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans"my fellow veterans"whose future you stole.
I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans"my fellow veterans"whose future you stole.

Your positions of authority, your millions of dollars of personal wealth, your public relations consultants, your privilege and your power cannot mask the hollowness of your character. You sent us to fight and die in Iraq after you, Mr. Cheney, dodged the draft in Vietnam, and you, Mr. Bush, went AWOL from your National Guard unit. Your cowardice and selfishness were established decades ago. You were not willing to risk yourselves for our nation but you sent hundreds of thousands of young men and women to be sacrificed in a senseless war with no more thought than it takes to put out the garbage.

I joined the Army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the Army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I did not join the Army to go to Iraq, a country that had no part in the September 2001 attacks and did not pose a threat to its neighbors, much less to the United States. I did not join the Army to "liberate" Iraqis or to shut down mythical weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities or to implant what you cynically called "democracy" in Baghdad and the Middle East. I did not join the Army to rebuild Iraq, which at the time you told us could be paid for by Iraq"s oil revenues. Instead, this war has cost the United States over $3 trillion. I especially did not join the Army to carry out pre-emptive war. Pre-emptive war is illegal under international law. And as a soldier in Iraq I was, I now know, abetting your idiocy and your crimes. The Iraq War is the largest strategic blunder in U.S. history. It obliterated the balance of power in the Middle East. It installed a corrupt and brutal pro-Iranian government in Baghdad, one cemented in power through the use of torture, death squads and terror. And it has left Iran as the dominant force in the region. On every level"moral, strategic, military and economic"Iraq was a failure. And it was you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, who started this war. It is you who should pay the consequences.

To read Chris Hedges" recent interview with Tomas Young, click here.

I would not be writing this letter if I had been wounded fighting in Afghanistan against those forces that carried out the attacks of 9/11. Had I been wounded there I would still be miserable because of my physical deterioration and imminent death, but I would at least have the comfort of knowing that my injuries were a consequence of my own decision to defend the country I love. I would not have to lie in my bed, my body filled with painkillers, my life ebbing away, and deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of human beings, including children, including myself, were sacrificed by you for little more than the greed of oil companies, for your alliance with the oil sheiks in Saudi Arabia, and your insane visions of empire.

I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the Veterans Administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician. We were used. We were betrayed. And we have been abandoned. You, Mr. Bush, make much pretense of being a Christian. But isn"t lying a sin? Isn"t murder a sin? Aren"t theft and selfish ambition sins? I am not a Christian. But I believe in the Christian ideal. I believe that what you do to the least of your brothers you finally do to yourself, to your own soul.

My day of reckoning is upon me. Yours will come. I hope you will be put on trial. But mostly I hope, for your sakes, that you find the moral courage to face what you have done to me and to many, many others who deserved to live. I hope that before your time on earth ends, as mine is now ending, you will find the strength of character to stand before the American public and the world, and in particular the Iraqi people, and beg for forgiveness.
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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3/21/2013 6:42:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Wow, I just read about this on the news. This is so sad :( I understand his frustration, but why did he sign up to fight in the first place?
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/21/2013 10:29:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?

Was there any point to this question whatsoever? It's an interesting story. That suffices enough.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
slo1
Posts: 4,351
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3/21/2013 10:59:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?

Fundamentally, the entire point of the fiasco:

1. The invasion/occupation of Iraq was a grave error.

2. Many will try to describe that error as intentional deceit for profits or other nefarious motives, however they really don't know that. At best the error is one formed from an unyielding ideological mindset and the constraints of people not accurately being able to weight their opinion's against reality.

3. This letter demonstrates the reality that arises when leaders take countries to war.

4. Hopefully this shows future leaders that reality so that they understand that certain thresholds MUST be broken before going to war because the human costs to our citizens who don't and do return from war is too great.

Anyone who thinks the return on the Iraqi occupation was worth the financial and human toll is delusional and remains in an ideological box. Don't tell me that the intel was bad. There were more than enough people still saying with that intell the thresholds were not enough to go to war, not enough to justify pre-emption. Like I said it was an ideological decision and it was a very bad decision.

I am embarrassed to say I supported it at the time, but have long since come to see the light.

Now let's get our arses out of Afghanistan, at least boots on the ground out, drones in.
Eitan_Zohar
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3/21/2013 11:21:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 10:29:19 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?

Was there any point to this question whatsoever? It's an interesting story. That suffices enough.

No, it is propaganda. It is propaganda by definition, and not worth looking at.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/21/2013 11:55:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 11:21:02 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 3/21/2013 10:29:19 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?

Was there any point to this question whatsoever? It's an interesting story. That suffices enough.

No, it is propaganda. It is propaganda by definition, and not worth looking at.

How? Even if it was it'd still be worth looking at.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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3/21/2013 12:06:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 10:59:38 AM, slo1 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?

Fundamentally, the entire point of the fiasco:

1. The invasion/occupation of Iraq was a grave error.

No, it wasn't.

2. Many will try to describe that error as intentional deceit for profits or other nefarious motives, however they really don't know that. At best the error is one formed from an unyielding ideological mindset and the constraints of people not accurately being able to weight their opinion's against reality.

Whatever.

3. This letter demonstrates the reality that arises when leaders take countries to war.

No, it demonstrates what happens when war occurs and people don't like it.

4. Hopefully this shows future leaders that reality so that they understand that certain thresholds MUST be broken before going to war because the human costs to our citizens who don't and do return from war is too great.

No, it won't have any affect.

Anyone who thinks the return on the Iraqi occupation was worth the financial and human toll is delusional and remains in an ideological box.

Incorrect.

Don't tell me that the intel was bad. There were more than enough people still saying with that intell the thresholds were not enough to go to war, not enough to justify pre-emption. Like I said it was an ideological decision and it was a very bad decision.

The claim that Iraq posed an imminent threat to the US was false. Governments lie during wartime. Still not seeing how it was a mistake.

I am embarrassed to say I supported it at the time, but have long since come to see the light.

Now let's get our arses out of Afghanistan, at least boots on the ground out, drones in.

No.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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3/21/2013 12:07:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 11:55:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 11:21:02 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 3/21/2013 10:29:19 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?

Was there any point to this question whatsoever? It's an interesting story. That suffices enough.

No, it is propaganda. It is propaganda by definition, and not worth looking at.

How? Even if it was it'd still be worth looking at.

Is it constructive in any way whatsoever?

No, it isn't.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/21/2013 2:16:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 12:07:03 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 3/21/2013 11:55:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 11:21:02 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 3/21/2013 10:29:19 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?

Was there any point to this question whatsoever? It's an interesting story. That suffices enough.

No, it is propaganda. It is propaganda by definition, and not worth looking at.

How? Even if it was it'd still be worth looking at.

Is it constructive in any way whatsoever?

No, it isn't.

It is absolutely constructive, if one person gains a greater understanding of the true cost of war. It could help prevent history from repeating itself.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/21/2013 2:16:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Video of him reading the letter on Democracy Now.

http://www.democracynow.org...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/21/2013 2:17:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 6:42:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Wow, I just read about this on the news. This is so sad :( I understand his frustration, but why did he sign up to fight in the first place?

It was just after 911 and he wanted to go after those responsible.
He ended up being deployed to Iraq instead.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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3/21/2013 2:18:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 2:16:17 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 12:07:03 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 3/21/2013 11:55:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 11:21:02 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 3/21/2013 10:29:19 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?

Was there any point to this question whatsoever? It's an interesting story. That suffices enough.

No, it is propaganda. It is propaganda by definition, and not worth looking at.

How? Even if it was it'd still be worth looking at.

Is it constructive in any way whatsoever?

No, it isn't.

It is absolutely constructive, if one person gains a greater understanding of the true cost of war. It could help prevent history from repeating itself.

I'm just going to point out that you are an idiot and that you should feel bad.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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3/21/2013 2:41:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 6:42:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Wow, I just read about this on the news. This is so sad :( I understand his frustration, but why did he sign up to fight in the first place?

I agree. He sees to be one of those easily influenced people who join the military to fight a specific war than holds resentment towards his superiors for being deployed somewhere else. The same type of people are just as inclined to believe antiwar propaganda, as they are war propaganda.

If you enlist, you become the property of the US government. As long as you wear that uniform, you have no opinion. Your body and life belongs to the government; you signed it away when you enlisted.

When I read articles like this, I get more frustrated with the soldiers than the President. If you don't want to be put in harms way, don't enlist. Don't complain when you get injured in combat, and certainly don't use your injuries for political gain.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/21/2013 2:49:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 2:41:39 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/21/2013 6:42:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Wow, I just read about this on the news. This is so sad :( I understand his frustration, but why did he sign up to fight in the first place?

I agree. He sees to be one of those easily influenced people who join the military to fight a specific war than holds resentment towards his superiors for being deployed somewhere else. The same type of people are just as inclined to believe antiwar propaganda, as they are war propaganda.

If you enlist, you become the property of the US government. As long as you wear that uniform, you have no opinion. Your body and life belongs to the government; you signed it away when you enlisted.

When I read articles like this, I get more frustrated with the soldiers than the President. If you don't want to be put in harms way, don't enlist. Don't complain when you get injured in combat, and certainly don't use your injuries for political gain.

Ya, how dare that dying paraplegic voice his opinion on the Iraq war. He made a mistake signing up and needs to die quietly without making a fuss.
So I have to assume you have a problem when a soldier voices an opinion on any subject at any time?
Your statement so completely and objectively false. A soldier can't have an opinion? C'mon
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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3/21/2013 4:00:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
While I am certainly no supporter of the iraq war, I feel using the dead soldiers is a bit dishonest. Its not the reason I'm against the war - hell I don't really care about soldiers deaths. They agreed to be there.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,294
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3/21/2013 6:01:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 2:49:07 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:41:39 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/21/2013 6:42:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Wow, I just read about this on the news. This is so sad :( I understand his frustration, but why did he sign up to fight in the first place?

I agree. He sees to be one of those easily influenced people who join the military to fight a specific war than holds resentment towards his superiors for being deployed somewhere else. The same type of people are just as inclined to believe antiwar propaganda, as they are war propaganda.

If you enlist, you become the property of the US government. As long as you wear that uniform, you have no opinion. Your body and life belongs to the government; you signed it away when you enlisted.

When I read articles like this, I get more frustrated with the soldiers than the President. If you don't want to be put in harms way, don't enlist. Don't complain when you get injured in combat, and certainly don't use your injuries for political gain.

Ya, how dare that dying paraplegic voice his opinion on the Iraq war. He made a mistake signing up and needs to die quietly without making a fuss.
So I have to assume you have a problem when a soldier voices an opinion on any subject at any time?
Your statement so completely and objectively false. A soldier can't have an opinion? C'mon

Yah, like a Doctor can't have an opinion on abortions. (BUT THEY SIGNED UP AS A DOCTOR TO DO OPERATIONS!)
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/21/2013 6:09:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 6:42:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Wow, I just read about this on the news. This is so sad :( I understand his frustration, but why did he sign up to fight in the first place?

The idea is that as an American, you are part of a community. Part of your community got attacked. So, you sign up to defend your community.

He signed up 2 days after 9/11.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
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3/21/2013 6:10:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 11:21:02 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 3/21/2013 10:29:19 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?

Was there any point to this question whatsoever? It's an interesting story. That suffices enough.

No, it is propaganda. It is propaganda by definition, and not worth looking at.

It's one man's opinion. Apparently you disagree with it.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/21/2013 6:13:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 2:41:39 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/21/2013 6:42:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Wow, I just read about this on the news. This is so sad :( I understand his frustration, but why did he sign up to fight in the first place?

I agree. He sees to be one of those easily influenced people who join the military to fight a specific war than holds resentment towards his superiors for being deployed somewhere else. The same type of people are just as inclined to believe antiwar propaganda, as they are war propaganda.

If you enlist, you become the property of the US government. As long as you wear that uniform, you have no opinion. Your body and life belongs to the government; you signed it away when you enlisted.

When I read articles like this, I get more frustrated with the soldiers than the President. If you don't want to be put in harms way, don't enlist. Don't complain when you get injured in combat, and certainly don't use your injuries for political gain.


I fully agree with the bolded. My name is wrichcirw, and I approve this message.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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3/21/2013 6:15:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 2:41:39 PM, DanT wrote:
If you enlist, you become the property of the US government.

I was under the impression that slavery had been abolished in the United States. Guess I was misinformed.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/21/2013 6:16:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 2:16:17 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 12:07:03 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 3/21/2013 11:55:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 11:21:02 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 3/21/2013 10:29:19 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/21/2013 7:56:59 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm sorry, was there any point in this thread whatsoever?

Was there any point to this question whatsoever? It's an interesting story. That suffices enough.

No, it is propaganda. It is propaganda by definition, and not worth looking at.

How? Even if it was it'd still be worth looking at.

Is it constructive in any way whatsoever?

No, it isn't.

It is absolutely constructive, if one person gains a greater understanding of the true cost of war. It could help prevent history from repeating itself.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/21/2013 6:19:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 6:13:56 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:41:39 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/21/2013 6:42:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Wow, I just read about this on the news. This is so sad :( I understand his frustration, but why did he sign up to fight in the first place?

I agree. He sees to be one of those easily influenced people who join the military to fight a specific war than holds resentment towards his superiors for being deployed somewhere else. The same type of people are just as inclined to believe antiwar propaganda, as they are war propaganda.

If you enlist, you become the property of the US government. As long as you wear that uniform, you have no opinion. Your body and life belongs to the government; you signed it away when you enlisted.

When I read articles like this, I get more frustrated with the soldiers than the President. If you don't want to be put in harms way, don't enlist. Don't complain when you get injured in combat, and certainly don't use your injuries for political gain.


I fully agree with the bolded. My name is wrichcirw, and I approve this message.

Actually, I take this back.

Anyone is entitled to change their mind. This soldier had a change of heart. He did not disobey orders by doing what he did. He has the right to complain, just like you have the right to complain about him.

Regardless, your point about choice vs consequence is duly noted.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/21/2013 6:19:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Meh. You signed up for it. You pulled the trigger. You have yourself to blame.

There's nothing honorable about the military.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,294
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3/21/2013 6:24:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 6:19:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Meh. You signed up for it. You pulled the trigger. You have yourself to blame.

There's nothing honorable about the military.

Thanks Royalpaladin.
FREEDO
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3/21/2013 6:26:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 6:24:14 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Thanks Royalpaladin.

The fruitfulness of your remark has added considerably to my living experience.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/21/2013 6:34:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 6:15:15 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:41:39 PM, DanT wrote:
If you enlist, you become the property of the US government.

I was under the impression that slavery had been abolished in the United States. Guess I was misinformed.

I really like you. Did you know that?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/21/2013 6:37:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 6:15:15 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:41:39 PM, DanT wrote:
If you enlist, you become the property of the US government.

I was under the impression that slavery had been abolished in the United States. Guess I was misinformed.

Perhaps you were misinformed.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?