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Indiana Senate Passes NDAA Nullification

lewis20
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3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/21/2013 4:29:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's good for rhetorical and political purposes (getting the ball rolling on serious legislation) but the Supremacy Clause would squash this like a bug.

Again, as a political move I think it was very good. If Obama uses the Supremacy Clause, he all but admits the NDAA breaks the Constitution.

It's like the state saying "The Federal government can't rape our children" and the Federal Government says "You can't tell us what to do!"
Wnope
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3/21/2013 4:41:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The tactic is actually somewhat similar to the state legalization of marijuana tactic.

Even though American opinion may be leaning against legalization of marijuana, they are extremely against the Federal government forcing a state government to criminalize after legalization.

Similarly, while a Senate or House challenge to the NDAA may be seen as "weak on terror" on a state level it will be viewed as "the little guy fighting to protect the people from Big Government."

My guess is Obama will treat this the way he's treating weed legalization: remaining silent as long as possible and leaving federal/state agencies in the dark.
jzonda415
Posts: 151
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3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/22/2013 3:11:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Case in point.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
jzonda415
Posts: 151
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3/22/2013 5:38:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.

It is not a farce, it still is a threat to the US and making ourselves weaker is not a solution. Also, why do you think that terrorists can't do anything in this country?
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/22/2013 5:46:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 5:38:34 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.

It is not a farce, it still is a threat to the US and making ourselves weaker is not a solution. Also, why do you think that terrorists can't do anything in this country?

Terrorism is absolutely not a threat. Your chance of being killed by a terrorist is far far less than a thousandth of a percent. You shouldn't give up a single liberty to protect yourself from a threat as minuscule as terrorism.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
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3/22/2013 5:48:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 5:38:34 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.

It is not a farce, it still is a threat to the US and making ourselves weaker is not a solution. Also, why do you think that terrorists can't do anything in this country?

You are statistically more likely to be killed by a falling vending machine than a terrorist.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/22/2013 5:59:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 5:48:01 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:38:34 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.

It is not a farce, it still is a threat to the US and making ourselves weaker is not a solution. Also, why do you think that terrorists can't do anything in this country?

You are statistically more likely to be killed by a falling vending machine than a terrorist.

A falling vending machine! Sorry I looked at that statement and it puzzled me.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/22/2013 6:00:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 5:59:30 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:48:01 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:38:34 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.

It is not a farce, it still is a threat to the US and making ourselves weaker is not a solution. Also, why do you think that terrorists can't do anything in this country?

You are statistically more likely to be killed by a falling vending machine than a terrorist.

A falling vending machine? Sorry I looked at that statement and it puzzled me. Damn wrong punctuation.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
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3/22/2013 6:03:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 5:59:30 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:48:01 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:38:34 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.

It is not a farce, it still is a threat to the US and making ourselves weaker is not a solution. Also, why do you think that terrorists can't do anything in this country?

You are statistically more likely to be killed by a falling vending machine than a terrorist.

A falling vending machine! Sorry I looked at that statement and it puzzled me.

You are more likely to, at some point during your life, inadvertently knock a vending machine onto yourself whilst shaking loose some purchased, yet tragically denied, bit of merchandise than you are to be killed by an angry man in a turban.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/22/2013 6:06:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
More people have had their faces eaten off by monkeys than have been killed by terrorists in the US in the last decade.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
jzonda415
Posts: 151
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3/22/2013 9:18:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 5:46:21 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:38:34 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.

It is not a farce, it still is a threat to the US and making ourselves weaker is not a solution. Also, why do you think that terrorists can't do anything in this country?

Terrorism is absolutely not a threat. Your chance of being killed by a terrorist is far far less than a thousandth of a percent. You shouldn't give up a single liberty to protect yourself from a threat as minuscule as terrorism.

Well of course the chance of being KILLED by terrorism is low, we are fighting it. You are saying that because not many die from it, it is not a threat. But you aren't taking into account the attempts at terrorism. Just because they don't kill you doesn't mean they don't want to or they don't try to.

Here are few cases of attempts over the years: http://politicalscience.osu.edu...

This is why law enforcement needs the NDAA, so they can fight a war on the attempts at terrorism so they don't become acts of terrorism.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/22/2013 9:28:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 9:18:15 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:46:21 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:38:34 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.

It is not a farce, it still is a threat to the US and making ourselves weaker is not a solution. Also, why do you think that terrorists can't do anything in this country?

Terrorism is absolutely not a threat. Your chance of being killed by a terrorist is far far less than a thousandth of a percent. You shouldn't give up a single liberty to protect yourself from a threat as minuscule as terrorism.

Well of course the chance of being KILLED by terrorism is low, we are fighting it. You are saying that because not many die from it, it is not a threat. But you aren't taking into account the attempts at terrorism. Just because they don't kill you doesn't mean they don't want to or they don't try to.

Here are few cases of attempts over the years: http://politicalscience.osu.edu...

This is why law enforcement needs the NDAA, so they can fight a war on the attempts at terrorism so they don't become acts of terrorism.

That's the cost of freedom, that there exists a list of some 50 odd half a.s attempts at terrorism, most FBI sting operations. Great thing about the Constitution is that it's supposed to protect us from people like you. People so scared of their own shadow that they'll sign away every right and freedom to keep them safe from a made up boogie man.

Law enforcement doesn't need to shred due process anymore than they need a camera in every house and a tap on every phone. You can argue that we might be safer but freedom and due process are many times more important than security.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/22/2013 9:52:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 9:18:15 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
Here are few cases of attempts over the years: http://politicalscience.osu.edu...

I mean really just read some of these, absolutely ridiculous.
"Drawn by the violent jihadist emails and internet postings composed by an unemployed and apparently retarded 18-year-old Egyptian-American who felt the US was at war with Islam, FBI agents gain his confidence, supply him with a fake bomb which he parks outside a Chicago bar he said was filled with "the evilest people," and then arrest him when he attempts to detonate it from a nearby alley"

A retarded 18 year old Egyptian is recruited by FBI agents to fake bomb a Chicago night club? There are your American tax dollars hard at work.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
jzonda415
Posts: 151
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3/22/2013 10:38:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 9:28:01 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 9:18:15 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:46:21 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:38:34 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.

It is not a farce, it still is a threat to the US and making ourselves weaker is not a solution. Also, why do you think that terrorists can't do anything in this country?

Terrorism is absolutely not a threat. Your chance of being killed by a terrorist is far far less than a thousandth of a percent. You shouldn't give up a single liberty to protect yourself from a threat as minuscule as terrorism.

Well of course the chance of being KILLED by terrorism is low, we are fighting it. You are saying that because not many die from it, it is not a threat. But you aren't taking into account the attempts at terrorism. Just because they don't kill you doesn't mean they don't want to or they don't try to.

Here are few cases of attempts over the years: http://politicalscience.osu.edu...

This is why law enforcement needs the NDAA, so they can fight a war on the attempts at terrorism so they don't become acts of terrorism.

That's the cost of freedom, that there exists a list of some 50 odd half a.s attempts at terrorism, most FBI sting operations. Great thing about the Constitution is that it's supposed to protect us from people like you. People so scared of their own shadow that they'll sign away every right and freedom to keep them safe from a made up boogie man.

Law enforcement doesn't need to shred due process anymore than they need a camera in every house and a tap on every phone. You can argue that we might be safer but freedom and due process are many times more important than security.

You are completely taking my argument to the absurd. You infer that because I believe in fighting terrorism, I must want absolute military tyranny with no individual rights; that I must want "a camera in every home and a tap on every phone." I don't. I want a society that can actually have some common sense, and can defend itself from a serious threat. If we had it your way, there would be no breathalyzers for drunk drivers, no drug sniffing dogs and no metal detectors. Those are all so called "Civil liberty violations," so why are they allowed? Because anyone can realize that they give us protection.

I believe that due process is important and that freedom is one of the greatest gifts ever invented, but there needs to be a line drawn at everything. It is important to be free, but it is just as, if not more, important to be safe. For if we aren't safe, you aren't going to be free; you're going to be dead. Law enforcement is there to keep us protected, not intentionally deteriorate our liberties.
jzonda415
Posts: 151
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3/22/2013 10:46:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 9:52:22 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 9:18:15 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
Here are few cases of attempts over the years: http://politicalscience.osu.edu...


I mean really just read some of these, absolutely ridiculous.
"Drawn by the violent jihadist emails and internet postings composed by an unemployed and apparently retarded 18-year-old Egyptian-American who felt the US was at war with Islam, FBI agents gain his confidence, supply him with a fake bomb which he parks outside a Chicago bar he said was filled with "the evilest people," and then arrest him when he attempts to detonate it from a nearby alley"

A retarded 18 year old Egyptian is recruited by FBI agents to fake bomb a Chicago night club? There are your American tax dollars hard at work.

Some are ridiculous, some aren't. For Instance:
" Small group in London, under intense police surveillance from the beginning, plots to explode liquid bombs on US-bound airliners"
"Afghan-American and two friends travel to Pakistan to join Taliban, but are recruited by al-Qaeda to plant bombs on NY subways instead, and are under surveillance throughout"
"A US marine reservist with jihadist literature shoots at military buildings in the DC area and is arrested as he seeks to desecrate the graves of veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan"
"New York man travels to Pakistan, is accepted into al-Qaeda, and plots to plant a bomb in the US, but is being watched and talks after being arrested"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/22/2013 10:52:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 10:38:15 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
I believe that due process is important and that freedom is one of the greatest gifts ever invented, but there needs to be a line drawn at everything. It is important to be free, but it is just as, if not more, important to be safe. For if we aren't safe, you aren't going to be free; you're going to be dead. Law enforcement is there to keep us protected, not intentionally deteriorate our liberties.

The but is where you went wrong, security isn't more important than liberty, due process is protected in the Constitution and we aren't going to throw out the Constitution so that you'll feel safe. If you want to be safe, carry a gun as you're much more likely to be gunned down in a movie theater than killed by a terrorist.

You can't justify indefinite detention of Americans without due process. Its against the ultimate law of the land. Indiana did the right thing in nullifying it.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
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3/22/2013 10:52:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 10:38:15 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 9:28:01 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 9:18:15 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:46:21 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 5:38:34 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 3:36:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/22/2013 12:31:31 AM, jzonda415 wrote:
At 3/21/2013 2:39:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The Indiana Senate passed a bill that would block any attempts to detain people on Indiana soil without due process Thursday afternoon.'
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...

Love my state

Why is this a good thing? Besides making America weaker in fighting a war on terror?

Due process and the rule of law are good things, the war on terror is a farce. Fear mongering through and through, terrorists can't do sht in this country.

It is not a farce, it still is a threat to the US and making ourselves weaker is not a solution. Also, why do you think that terrorists can't do anything in this country?

Terrorism is absolutely not a threat. Your chance of being killed by a terrorist is far far less than a thousandth of a percent. You shouldn't give up a single liberty to protect yourself from a threat as minuscule as terrorism.

Well of course the chance of being KILLED by terrorism is low, we are fighting it. You are saying that because not many die from it, it is not a threat. But you aren't taking into account the attempts at terrorism. Just because they don't kill you doesn't mean they don't want to or they don't try to.

Here are few cases of attempts over the years: http://politicalscience.osu.edu...

This is why law enforcement needs the NDAA, so they can fight a war on the attempts at terrorism so they don't become acts of terrorism.

That's the cost of freedom, that there exists a list of some 50 odd half a.s attempts at terrorism, most FBI sting operations. Great thing about the Constitution is that it's supposed to protect us from people like you. People so scared of their own shadow that they'll sign away every right and freedom to keep them safe from a made up boogie man.

Law enforcement doesn't need to shred due process anymore than they need a camera in every house and a tap on every phone. You can argue that we might be safer but freedom and due process are many times more important than security.

You are completely taking my argument to the absurd. You infer that because I believe in fighting terrorism, I must want absolute military tyranny with no individual rights; that I must want "a camera in every home and a tap on every phone." I don't. I want a society that can actually have some common sense, and can defend itself from a serious threat. If we had it your way, there would be no breathalyzers for drunk drivers, no drug sniffing dogs and no metal detectors. Those are all so called "Civil liberty violations," so why are they allowed? Because anyone can realize that they give us protection.

I believe that due process is important and that freedom is one of the greatest gifts ever invented, but there needs to be a line drawn at everything. It is important to be free, but it is just as, if not more, important to be safe. For if we aren't safe, you aren't going to be free; you're going to be dead. Law enforcement is there to keep us protected, not intentionally deteriorate our liberties.

The problem is that you cannot, by definition, have 'a little less due process'. You either have it, or your don't. And if you're willing to tear down that pillar of society out of fear then you're a bigger existential threat this country than any terrorist. People are going to die regardless, for many reasons. That doesn't mean you start denying people habeas corpus or trusting the government with every bit of detailed information that they want. A line has already been drawn, and if you set the precedent that the government doesn't need a warrant to obtain such information then, guess what, you just erased the line.

And you haven't responded to the point that in many of these cases of 'foiled terrorism' law enforcement egged the terrorists on and supplied them with materials in order to get a conviction. Meaning that, without government help, these terrorists would have been in no position to carry out their attacks to begin with.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/22/2013 10:56:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 10:46:21 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
Some are ridiculous, some aren't. For Instance:
" Small group in London, under intense police surveillance from the beginning, plots to explode liquid bombs on US-bound airliners"
"Afghan-American and two friends travel to Pakistan to join Taliban, but are recruited by al-Qaeda to plant bombs on NY subways instead, and are under surveillance throughout"
"A US marine reservist with jihadist literature shoots at military buildings in the DC area and is arrested as he seeks to desecrate the graves of veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan"
"New York man travels to Pakistan, is accepted into al-Qaeda, and plots to plant a bomb in the US, but is being watched and talks after being arrested"

Right, in all of those cases the intelligence was watching their every move. None of that justifies doing away with due process.
None of those case gave any reason at all why we should trash the rule of law.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler