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Irena Sendler

DanT
Posts: 5,693
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3/23/2013 5:36:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Remember this lady? I didn't either.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net...
Irena Sendler

Died: May 12, 2008 (aged 98)
Warsaw, Poland

During WWII, Irena, got permission to work in the Warsaw ghetto, as a Plumbing/Sewer specialist. She had an ulterior motive.

Irena smuggled Jewish infants out in the bottom of the tool box she carried. She also carried a burlap sack in the back of her truck, for larger kids.

Irena kept a dog in the back that she trained to bark when the Nazi soldiers let her in and out of the ghetto.

The soldiers, of course, wanted nothing to do with the dog and the barking covered the kids/infants noises.

During her time of doing this, she managed to smuggle out and save 2500 kids/infants.

Ultimately, she was caught, however, and the Nazi's broke both of her legs and arms and beat her severely.

Irena kept a record of the names of all the kids she had smuggled out, In a glass jar that she buried under a tree in her back yard. After the war, she tried to locate any parents that may have survived and tried to reunite the family. Most had been gassed. Those kids she helped got placed into foster family homes or adopted.

In 2007 Irena was up for the Nobel Peace Prize.
She was not selected.
Al Gore won, for a slide show on Global Warming.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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3/23/2013 6:33:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
woooow.

That. is. nuts.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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3/23/2013 8:26:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A heroic woman, had never heard of her, thanks for the post.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/23/2013 8:44:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yeah, that was when I started to see the Nobel peace prize as a farce. It also made me hate Al Gore even more, which I didn't think was possible.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/23/2013 8:51:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So why post about this lady now? She died 5 years ago. Any reason?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,313
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3/23/2013 8:57:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 8:44:07 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Yeah, that was when I started to see the Nobel peace prize as a farce. It also made me hate Al Gore even more, which I didn't think was possible.

Ghandhi didn't do it for you?
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/23/2013 8:58:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 5:36:38 PM, DanT wrote:
Remember this lady? I didn't either.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net...
Irena Sendler

Died: May 12, 2008 (aged 98)
Warsaw, Poland

During WWII, Irena, got permission to work in the Warsaw ghetto, as a Plumbing/Sewer specialist. She had an ulterior motive.

Irena smuggled Jewish infants out in the bottom of the tool box she carried. She also carried a burlap sack in the back of her truck, for larger kids.

Irena kept a dog in the back that she trained to bark when the Nazi soldiers let her in and out of the ghetto.

The soldiers, of course, wanted nothing to do with the dog and the barking covered the kids/infants noises.

During her time of doing this, she managed to smuggle out and save 2500 kids/infants.

Ultimately, she was caught, however, and the Nazi's broke both of her legs and arms and beat her severely.

Irena kept a record of the names of all the kids she had smuggled out, In a glass jar that she buried under a tree in her back yard. After the war, she tried to locate any parents that may have survived and tried to reunite the family. Most had been gassed. Those kids she helped got placed into foster family homes or adopted.

In 2007 Irena was up for the Nobel Peace Prize.
She was not selected.
Al Gore won, for a slide show on Global Warming.

pphh, was probably a lame Ted Talk.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/23/2013 9:05:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
pphh, was probably a lame Ted Talk.

You don't like TED?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/23/2013 9:09:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

Al Gore stopped climate change? Because in order for that comparison to hold valid, that's what he'd have had to do...
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/23/2013 9:30:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 9:05:59 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
pphh, was probably a lame Ted Talk.

You don't like TED?

Onion ruined for me man.

Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/23/2013 9:37:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

I'm a geophysicist and I assume the truth of AGW daily, but I'm sorry but at best we have weak correlations of human harm with AGW, NOT causations of AGW on human harms... On the other hand, we know with near certitude that Nazi's caused harm on humans (far more than just ~2500), this lady not only did her part in trying to cease that harm, but did it out of no benefit for herself, it was wholly altruistic.

Gore? ... How many millions of dollars did he make on his campaign again?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/23/2013 9:39:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 9:09:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

Al Gore stopped climate change? Because in order for that comparison to hold valid, that's what he'd have had to do...

Yes, Al Gore flies around in a private jet telling people who are struggling to survive that they need to learn to live with less, then retires to relax in his multimillion dollar mansion. What a martyr.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/23/2013 9:44:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 8:57:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/23/2013 8:44:07 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Yeah, that was when I started to see the Nobel peace prize as a farce. It also made me hate Al Gore even more, which I didn't think was possible.

Ghandhi didn't do it for you?

I meant that it started to become a complete joke at that point. Doling one out to the leader of the world's largest military power, who picks people to assassinate on a regular basis, was just the cherry on top of the cake. Things like this are an insult to people like Gandhi, who was actually dedicated to nonviolence.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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3/23/2013 9:55:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 9:09:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

Al Gore stopped climate change? Because in order for that comparison to hold valid, that's what he'd have had to do...

Nay. Al Gore did not stop climate change. But he did increase the awareness about the global warming, a remarkable contribution to the mankind. So in order for Al Gore to hold an equal footing with Ms.Sendler, he does not have to be the one who prevents the global warming from happening.
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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3/23/2013 9:57:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 9:39:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:09:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

Al Gore stopped climate change? Because in order for that comparison to hold valid, that's what he'd have had to do...

Yes, Al Gore flies around in a private jet telling people who are struggling to survive that they need to learn to live with less, then retires to relax in his multimillion dollar mansion. What a martyr.

Attacking his character wouldn't do you much good.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/23/2013 10:01:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 9:57:13 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:39:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:09:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

Al Gore stopped climate change? Because in order for that comparison to hold valid, that's what he'd have had to do...

Yes, Al Gore flies around in a private jet telling people who are struggling to survive that they need to learn to live with less, then retires to relax in his multimillion dollar mansion. What a martyr.

Attacking his character wouldn't do you much good.

Clearly not as morally rich as the that beautiful soul this thread is about... Al Gore who? That modernized westernized politician who struck gold on a "global crisis"?
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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3/23/2013 10:04:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 9:37:14 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

I'm a geophysicist and I assume the truth of AGW daily, but I'm sorry but at best we have weak correlations of human harm with AGW, NOT causations of AGW on human harms... On the other hand, we know with near certitude that Nazi's caused harm on humans (far more than just ~2500), this lady not only did her part in trying to cease that harm, but did it out of no benefit for herself, it was wholly altruistic.

Gore? ... How many millions of dollars did he make on his campaign again?

You suggested t "certainty" should trump "uncertainty" in this case, and I would respectfully disagree with assessment. What Al Gore had done was to increase the awareness about human factors in the ensuing Global warming. He had done something remarkable by attempting to prevent the devastating events from happening. Ms.Sendler's story has a very strong emotional appeal primarily due to the fact that we are dealing with infants and children. Yet if one presents evidence concerning the human suffering under the human made global warming, it may help tip the balance toward Al Gore. The man may have a weak character, but he has done a heck of good job.
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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3/23/2013 10:08:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 10:01:49 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:57:13 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:39:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:09:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

Al Gore stopped climate change? Because in order for that comparison to hold valid, that's what he'd have had to do...

Yes, Al Gore flies around in a private jet telling people who are struggling to survive that they need to learn to live with less, then retires to relax in his multimillion dollar mansion. What a martyr.

Attacking his character wouldn't do you much good.

Clearly not as morally rich as the that beautiful soul this thread is about... Al Gore who? That modernized westernized politician who struck gold on a "global crisis"?

How can you be so sure that the lady herself has yet done such thing? Wouldn't self-redemption also serve a strong reason for one to save infants from the grasp of he Nazis?
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/23/2013 10:12:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 10:04:44 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:37:14 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

I'm a geophysicist and I assume the truth of AGW daily, but I'm sorry but at best we have weak correlations of human harm with AGW, NOT causations of AGW on human harms... On the other hand, we know with near certitude that Nazi's caused harm on humans (far more than just ~2500), this lady not only did her part in trying to cease that harm, but did it out of no benefit for herself, it was wholly altruistic.

Gore? ... How many millions of dollars did he make on his campaign again?

You suggested t "certainty" should trump "uncertainty" in this case, and I would respectfully disagree with assessment. What Al Gore had done was to increase the awareness about human factors in the ensuing Global warming. He had done something remarkable by attempting to prevent the devastating events from happening.

Ms.Sendler's story has a very strong emotional appeal primarily due to the fact that we are dealing with infants and children. Yet if one presents evidence concerning the human suffering under the human made global warming, it may help tip the balance toward Al Gore. The man may have a weak character, but he has done a heck of good job.

What evidence of human suffering DUE to AGW exists? Like I said all that's in the literature are correlations (and weak ones at that), NOT causations.

I'm not giving an argument from emotion here bud. I'm saying this woman prevented the cause of harm to people at the risk of her life and the cost of her bones. Gore's not even in the same playing field as this woman.

And you'll have to clarify what you mean about my supposed point that certainty should trump uncertainty. I think you're missing what I'm getting at here.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/23/2013 10:17:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 10:08:26 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 10:01:49 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:57:13 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:39:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:09:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

Al Gore stopped climate change? Because in order for that comparison to hold valid, that's what he'd have had to do...

Yes, Al Gore flies around in a private jet telling people who are struggling to survive that they need to learn to live with less, then retires to relax in his multimillion dollar mansion. What a martyr.

Attacking his character wouldn't do you much good.

Clearly not as morally rich as the that beautiful soul this thread is about... Al Gore who? That modernized westernized politician who struck gold on a "global crisis"?

How can you be so sure that the lady herself has yet done such thing? Wouldn't self-redemption also serve a strong reason for one to save infants from the grasp of he Nazis?

I'm saying IF she did such things. That's clearly the assumption. But we've no reason to think, in this story, that this wasn't an act of genuine altruism, it would be reading your own agenda into the story otherwise. Gore on the other hand we've great reason to think this wasn't an act of genuine altruism, first we've no firm report of AGW actually CAUSING human suffering, only weak correlations based on statistical science. Second, Gore has all the signs that point away from genuine altruism, monetary benefit, a history of his desire for recognition (he invented the internet after all), etc. None of these motivations are obvious for Miss. Sendler.
Apeiron
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3/23/2013 10:22:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 10:08:26 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 10:01:49 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:57:13 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:39:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:09:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

Al Gore stopped climate change? Because in order for that comparison to hold valid, that's what he'd have had to do...

Yes, Al Gore flies around in a private jet telling people who are struggling to survive that they need to learn to live with less, then retires to relax in his multimillion dollar mansion. What a martyr.

Attacking his character wouldn't do you much good.

Clearly not as morally rich as the that beautiful soul this thread is about... Al Gore who? That modernized westernized politician who struck gold on a "global crisis"?

How can you be so sure that the lady herself has yet done such thing? Wouldn't self-redemption also serve a strong reason for one to save infants from the grasp of he Nazis?

I appreciate your role of devils advocate here but I just can't take serious the thought that these two folks are on a par with on another, let alone Gore being more worthy of a recently tarnished prize that was once taken seriously.

Moreover, you use the catch-all phrase, "raise awareness"... there's just too many probalems to go into over this catch-all, but leave that aside, raising awareness is one thing, it's a popularization thing if that, whereas risking your bones and life against a brutal 3rd reign war machine far outweighs any awareness you can raise about climate concerns.
Greyparrot
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3/23/2013 10:32:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 10:04:44 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:37:14 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:07:40 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
Although this may sound heartless, but one should acknowledge that global warming and climate change (if you believe in it) affect far more people than 2,500 infants. The sheer volume among would suggest that Al Gore should win.

A heroic woman of course. Everyone should salute to her.

I'm a geophysicist and I assume the truth of AGW daily, but I'm sorry but at best we have weak correlations of human harm with AGW, NOT causations of AGW on human harms... On the other hand, we know with near certitude that Nazi's caused harm on humans (far more than just ~2500), this lady not only did her part in trying to cease that harm, but did it out of no benefit for herself, it was wholly altruistic.

Gore? ... How many millions of dollars did he make on his campaign again?

You suggested t "certainty" should trump "uncertainty" in this case, and I would respectfully disagree with assessment. What Al Gore had done was to increase the awareness about human factors in the ensuing Global warming. He had done something remarkable by attempting to prevent the devastating events from happening. Ms.Sendler's story has a very strong emotional appeal primarily due to the fact that we are dealing with infants and children. Yet if one presents evidence concerning the human suffering under the human made global warming, it may help tip the balance toward Al Gore. The man may have a weak character, but he has done a heck of good job.

If the prize is awarded for making predictions, then Miss Cleo will logically be the next recipient.
TheElderScroll
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3/23/2013 10:42:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
How can you be so sure that the lady herself has yet done such thing? Wouldn't self-redemption also serve a strong reason for one to save infants from the grasp of he Nazis?

I'm saying IF she did such things. That's clearly the assumption. But we've no reason to think, in this story, that this wasn't an act of genuine altruism, it would be reading your own agenda into the story otherwise. Gore on the other hand we've great reason to think this wasn't an act of genuine altruism, first we've no firm report of AGW actually CAUSING human suffering, only weak correlations based on statistical science. Second, Gore has all the signs that point away from genuine altruism, monetary benefit, a history of his desire for recognition (he invented the internet after all), etc. None of these motivations are obvious for Miss. Sendler.

There lies our difference. OP merely represents one side of the story thereby suggesting that her action was an act of genuine altruism. It may or may not be true. Al Gore was pained in such a unfavourable light largely because media said so. It is not a fair assessment of a man who once held the national office.

As for the causal relation that you have mentioned, I cannot really say much about it largely because many scientists support the idea while some do not. The formula that they are using is so complicate that it is completely beyond comprehension. Yet from what I have learnt from the Statistics, causal relation may never be proved, nor is it required to be proved to reject a hypothesis.

Besides, I am experiencing some difficulty of understanding you argument that "Gore has all the signs that point away from genuine altruism." Just because he went after monetary benefits and had an insatiable appetite for recognition, then this man must be "away from genuine altruism?" Can't those two characters coexist?
TheElderScroll
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3/23/2013 10:44:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 10:32:18 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
If the prize is awarded for making predictions, then Miss Cleo will logically be the next recipient.

Making rational and reasonable predictions, that how I will put it.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,313
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3/23/2013 10:46:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 10:44:02 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 10:32:18 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
If the prize is awarded for making predictions, then Miss Cleo will logically be the next recipient.

Making rational and reasonable predictions, that how I will put it.

Thanks.
Apeiron
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3/23/2013 10:49:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 10:44:02 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 10:32:18 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
If the prize is awarded for making predictions, then Miss Cleo will logically be the next recipient.

Making rational and reasonable predictions, that how I will put it.

Based on? ... Right, weak correlations. These predictions logically CAN'T be reasonable since they're statistical in origin, reasonable has to do with plausibility and probability. But modern utility theory stays away from those claims!
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/23/2013 10:52:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 9:30:39 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:05:59 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
pphh, was probably a lame Ted Talk.

You don't like TED?

Onion ruined for me man.





Haha that killed me, can't believe I hadn't seen that before.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler