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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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3/24/2013 11:05:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Abortion isn't murder. It's the denial of resources.
#UnbanTheMadman

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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/24/2013 11:11:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:10:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Because everything in politics is an emotional reaction.

No, I'm being serious. This really doesn't make sense to me...
imabench
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3/24/2013 11:16:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Because f*ck logic, thats why
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FREEDO
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3/24/2013 11:21:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:11:39 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:10:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Because everything in politics is an emotional reaction.

No, I'm being serious. This really doesn't make sense to me...

That was my actual answer.
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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/24/2013 11:31:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:11:39 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:10:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Because everything in politics is an emotional reaction.

No, I'm being serious. This really doesn't make sense to me...

I read a very good debate about this.

Basically, there is some leeway in how a person is defined, irrespective of the 14th amendment. Some states classify killing a fetus in the 3rd trimester as murder, and thus what you describe would be a double homicide in those states.

In the debate, this leeway was called "persons of convenience".

http://www.debate.org...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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3/25/2013 12:02:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.

Because that woman planned to have a child.
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/25/2013 12:04:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I wonder if a lawyer could argue that its not a double homicide in court.....using abortion....
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OberHerr
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3/25/2013 12:05:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:05:08 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Abortion isn't murder. It's the denial of resources.

Nope, a denial of resources would be just removing it.

With abortion, they dissovle it, suck it up, poison it, ect.
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bossyburrito
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3/25/2013 12:11:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:05:31 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:05:08 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Abortion isn't murder. It's the denial of resources.

Nope, a denial of resources would be just removing it.

With abortion, they dissovle it, suck it up, poison it, ect.

If you removed it, what would happen?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

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OberHerr
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3/25/2013 12:16:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:11:15 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 3/25/2013 12:05:31 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:05:08 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Abortion isn't murder. It's the denial of resources.

Nope, a denial of resources would be just removing it.

With abortion, they dissovle it, suck it up, poison it, ect.

If you removed it, what would happen?

Would probably die without some sort of life support, but thats irrelevant. If I take away your source of food, and you die, that isn't the same as poisoning or dissolving you.
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YYW
Posts: 36,316
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3/25/2013 12:19:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

Because it cannot be established that the woman did or did not have plans to not carry the pregnancy to term. It's one of those "clusterfuck" moments in the judicial system.

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.
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RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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3/25/2013 12:20:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.

Because it's a potential life, duh.

wait... OH SH*T!
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/25/2013 12:22:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:20:36 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.

Because it's a potential life, duh.

*puts chloroform rag over mouth*

SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......shhhhhh......shhhhhh.....

*drags body away*
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/25/2013 12:24:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:23:18 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Sooooo should this not be a double homicide?

Or is this a good example of what abortion really is?

Well, if we go by Roe v. Wade, it shouldn't.

I personally think it should.
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bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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3/25/2013 12:26:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:16:43 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/25/2013 12:11:15 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 3/25/2013 12:05:31 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:05:08 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Abortion isn't murder. It's the denial of resources.

Nope, a denial of resources would be just removing it.

With abortion, they dissovle it, suck it up, poison it, ect.

If you removed it, what would happen?

Would probably die without some sort of life support, but thats irrelevant. If I take away your source of food, and you die, that isn't the same as poisoning or dissolving you.

If it was guarrenteed that I would die, then it wouldn't matter. Would you be OK with abortion if you just left the fetus on the table until it died or something?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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3/25/2013 12:26:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:23:18 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Sooooo should this not be a double homicide?

Or is this a good example of what abortion really is?

It should be.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/25/2013 12:30:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:22:31 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/25/2013 12:20:36 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.

Because it's a potential life, duh.

*puts chloroform rag over mouth*

SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......shhhhhh......shhhhhh.....

*drags body away*

The shh's made me almost pee myself.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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3/25/2013 12:31:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:30:06 AM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/25/2013 12:22:31 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/25/2013 12:20:36 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.

Because it's a potential life, duh.

*puts chloroform rag over mouth*

SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......shhhhhh......shhhhhh.....

*drags body away*

The shh's made me almost pee myself.

Me too, but probably for very different reasons.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/25/2013 12:32:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:31:21 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 3/25/2013 12:30:06 AM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/25/2013 12:22:31 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/25/2013 12:20:36 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.

Because it's a potential life, duh.

*puts chloroform rag over mouth*

SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......shhhhhh......shhhhhh.....

*drags body away*

The shh's made me almost pee myself.

Me too, but probably for very different reasons.

DDO is really killing it today.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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3/25/2013 1:24:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:02:58 AM, drhead wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.

Because that woman planned to have a child.

^This.
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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3/25/2013 1:46:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:05:08 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Abortion isn't murder. It's the denial of resources.

So deliberately starving your infant child isn't murder?
What about putting a new born in a dumpster?

The unborn child is killed before it is evicted, so would you support slitting a child's throat to avoid taking care of it?
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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3/25/2013 1:49:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 1:24:28 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 3/25/2013 12:02:58 AM, drhead wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.

Because that woman planned to have a child.

^This.

If you have sex, you must accept the consequences.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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3/25/2013 1:51:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 1:46:54 AM, DanT wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:05:08 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Abortion isn't murder. It's the denial of resources.

So deliberately starving your infant child isn't murder?
If you are not allowing him to get food from other sources, it is. If not, it isn't.
What about putting a new born in a dumpster?
Does the baby consent to this?
The unborn child is killed before it is evicted, so would you support slitting a child's throat to avoid taking care of it?
No.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/25/2013 2:00:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.

The reason is because the woman has the right to abort her pregnency; however, her murderer does not. Therefore, the murderer took two lives (when this law is usable, as I don't think it applies to someone two weeks pregnant).

It is akin to me going to throw something away, but before I do (as I may change my mind) I am mugged, and the mugger takes what I was going to throw away from me. He still robbed me, just like the murderer took two lives.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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3/25/2013 2:06:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 12:04:47 AM, OberHerr wrote:
I wonder if a lawyer could argue that its not a double homicide in court.....using abortion....

I may misunderstand your question, but...

I imagine a lawyer may try to avoid the double homicide by establishing that the woman was going to have an abortion, therefore, the fetus was doomed either way. The prosecutor would likely respond by saying "since it didn't happen, we will never know", as the woman may have changed her mind before the operation.

It would be hard to prove the woman's intent, plus it wouldn't matter much, as she could have changed her mind. But, if a lawyer thinks they could overcome these hurdles, it's worth a shot.
My work here is, finally, done.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/25/2013 10:44:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 2:00:46 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:03:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Why is it considered double homicide when a man kills a pregnant woman yet abortion is legal?

This literally makes no logical sense. I could kill a pregnant woman in her second trimester and get double homicide but if I didn't that same woman could abort her baby.

The reason is because the woman has the right to abort her pregnency; however, her murderer does not. Therefore, the murderer took two lives (when this law is usable, as I don't think it applies to someone two weeks pregnant).

It is akin to me going to throw something away, but before I do (as I may change my mind) I am mugged, and the mugger takes what I was going to throw away from me. He still robbed me, just like the murderer took two lives.

I think that's sick, you basically just said a woman has a right to murder her child. I really don't understand pro-choice logic...