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How free is your state?

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/28/2013 2:24:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yeah, this chart is extremely misleading.

The more rural and dispersed the society of a state, the less the demand for law and regulation. Wide separation precludes the chaos and crime of urban settlements.

That's why America's most metropolitan states (i.e California, New York, New Jersey) are less free, and the south and midwest, with its rural majority, more free.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/28/2013 2:35:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not really surprised.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/28/2013 2:54:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 2:24:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
Yeah, this chart is extremely misleading.

The more rural and dispersed the society of a state, the less the demand for law and regulation. Wide separation precludes the chaos and crime of urban settlements.

That's why America's most metropolitan states (i.e California, New York, New Jersey) are less free, and the south and midwest, with its rural majority, more free.

False. I live in Las Vegas and we have lots of freedom. Population of 2,000,000.

My state has the overall lowest tax rate in the nation and a 0% Income Tax.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
My-Self
Posts: 92
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3/28/2013 2:56:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ohio - #33
"Genesis could be compatible with anything. Theologians are great at mental gymnastics." ~ phantom
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/28/2013 3:00:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 2:54:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/28/2013 2:24:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
Yeah, this chart is extremely misleading.

The more rural and dispersed the society of a state, the less the demand for law and regulation. Wide separation precludes the chaos and crime of urban settlements.

That's why America's most metropolitan states (i.e California, New York, New Jersey) are less free, and the south and midwest, with its rural majority, more free.

False. I live in Las Vegas and we have lots of freedom. Population of 2,000,000.

My state has the overall lowest tax rate in the nation and a 0% Income Tax.

Wrong. Nevada is 35th most populous in the country, which makes its laws perfectly consistent with the explanation above.

How many true things have you foolishly dismissed as false in your lifetime? I think you should keep a tally.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/28/2013 3:15:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 3:00:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/28/2013 2:54:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/28/2013 2:24:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
Yeah, this chart is extremely misleading.

The more rural and dispersed the society of a state, the less the demand for law and regulation. Wide separation precludes the chaos and crime of urban settlements.

That's why America's most metropolitan states (i.e California, New York, New Jersey) are less free, and the south and midwest, with its rural majority, more free.

False. I live in Las Vegas and we have lots of freedom. Population of 2,000,000.

My state has the overall lowest tax rate in the nation and a 0% Income Tax.

Wrong. Nevada is 35th most populous in the country, which makes its laws perfectly consistent with the explanation above.

How many true things have you foolishly dismissed as false in your lifetime? I think you should keep a tally.

You said dense population will have higher demand for laws and regulation compared to rural areas. Ok, compare Las Vegas to New York City and Chicago. "Bbbut those aren't states." Yeah I get that.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/28/2013 3:18:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh yeah, don't get much more totalitarian than California. The real freedom is in Texas now that you won't get arrested for sodomy.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/28/2013 3:19:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Notice how Republican states are more free than Democrat states.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/28/2013 3:24:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 3:15:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/28/2013 3:00:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/28/2013 2:54:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/28/2013 2:24:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
Yeah, this chart is extremely misleading.

The more rural and dispersed the society of a state, the less the demand for law and regulation. Wide separation precludes the chaos and crime of urban settlements.

That's why America's most metropolitan states (i.e California, New York, New Jersey) are less free, and the south and midwest, with its rural majority, more free.

False. I live in Las Vegas and we have lots of freedom. Population of 2,000,000.

My state has the overall lowest tax rate in the nation and a 0% Income Tax.

Wrong. Nevada is 35th most populous in the country, which makes its laws perfectly consistent with the explanation above.

How many true things have you foolishly dismissed as false in your lifetime? I think you should keep a tally.

You said dense population will have higher demand for laws and regulation compared to rural areas. Ok, compare Las Vegas to New York City and Chicago. "Bbbut those aren't states." Yeah I get that.

No I did not. I used the words "rural and dispersed." Small population across large space of land = dispersed, even though Nevada isn't particularly rural. The point is that urban and even suburban life DEMANDS regulation. It has nothing to do with political philosophy or national parties, it's just an inexorable fact of our regionalized states.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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3/28/2013 3:26:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 3:24:53 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/28/2013 3:15:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/28/2013 3:00:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/28/2013 2:54:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/28/2013 2:24:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
Yeah, this chart is extremely misleading.

The more rural and dispersed the society of a state, the less the demand for law and regulation. Wide separation precludes the chaos and crime of urban settlements.

That's why America's most metropolitan states (i.e California, New York, New Jersey) are less free, and the south and midwest, with its rural majority, more free.

False. I live in Las Vegas and we have lots of freedom. Population of 2,000,000.

My state has the overall lowest tax rate in the nation and a 0% Income Tax.

Wrong. Nevada is 35th most populous in the country, which makes its laws perfectly consistent with the explanation above.

How many true things have you foolishly dismissed as false in your lifetime? I think you should keep a tally.

You said dense population will have higher demand for laws and regulation compared to rural areas. Ok, compare Las Vegas to New York City and Chicago. "Bbbut those aren't states." Yeah I get that.

No I did not. I used the words "rural and dispersed." Small population across large space of land = dispersed, even though Nevada isn't particularly rural. The point is that urban and even suburban life DEMANDS regulation. It has nothing to do with political philosophy or national parties, it's just an inexorable fact of our regionalized states.

I think it's a loop: urban areas require more regulation, so people more okay with regulation move there. Then they vote for more regulation and so on.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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3/28/2013 3:30:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 2:11:27 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
Look at this map and find out just how much liberty you have:

http://freedominthe50states.org...

No surprise there with Cali and York

There is something messed up about their stats though. Florida is ranked #1 for education. Florida's school system is segregated, so I find that hard to believe.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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3/28/2013 3:32:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 3:30:24 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/28/2013 2:11:27 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
Look at this map and find out just how much liberty you have:

http://freedominthe50states.org...

No surprise there with Cali and York


There is something messed up about their stats though. Florida is ranked #1 for education. Florida's school system is segregated, so I find that hard to believe.

The study is very questionable: Washington is ranked higher than Oregon in education, and I know for a fact that that contradicts with many other rankings, and my personal experience in the Oregon educational system.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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3/28/2013 3:34:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 3:32:52 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/28/2013 3:30:24 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/28/2013 2:11:27 PM, jzonda415 wrote:
Look at this map and find out just how much liberty you have:

http://freedominthe50states.org...

No surprise there with Cali and York


There is something messed up about their stats though. Florida is ranked #1 for education. Florida's school system is segregated, so I find that hard to believe.

The study is very questionable: Washington is ranked higher than Oregon in education, and I know for a fact that that contradicts with many other rankings, and my personal experience in the Oregon educational system.

Edit: I mean ranked lower
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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3/28/2013 3:34:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 2:24:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
Yeah, this chart is extremely misleading.

The more rural and dispersed the society of a state, the less the demand for law and regulation. Wide separation precludes the chaos and crime of urban settlements.

That's why America's most metropolitan states (i.e California, New York, New Jersey) are less free, and the south and midwest, with its rural majority, more free.

"I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man. True, they nourish some of the elegant arts, but the useful ones can thrive elsewhere, and less perfection in the others, with more health, virtue and freedom, would be my choice." ~ Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sep. 23, 1800
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/28/2013 4:01:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So why exactly should we give this any more credibility than a map of the US filled out by a weighted random number generator?
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/28/2013 4:57:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 4:01:48 PM, Wnope wrote:
So why exactly should we give this any more credibility than a map of the US filled out by a weighted random number generator?

Let's read how the numbers were calculated... that's a good place to start.

http://freedominthe50states.org...
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/28/2013 6:53:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 4:57:05 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/28/2013 4:01:48 PM, Wnope wrote:
So why exactly should we give this any more credibility than a map of the US filled out by a weighted random number generator?

Let's read how the numbers were calculated... that's a good place to start.

http://freedominthe50states.org...

Have you looked at how they weight it? Kansas during segregation would get a much better Freedom score than modern day California.

Tax burden is 28.6%

Freedom for tort abuse 11.5%

Property Rights Protection 7.6%

Gun control 6.6%

Tobacco Freedom 4.1%

Marriage freedom 3.8%

Labor Market Freedom 3.8%

Government Spending 1.9%

Government Debt 1.2%

Civil liberties is 0.6%

Beer-related Alcohol Freedom 0.4%

Campaign Finance 0.02%
lannan13
Posts: 23,111
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3/28/2013 9:50:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Kansas 26 no surprise.
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Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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3/28/2013 9:59:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, I of course don't agree with their definition of freedom. For instance, I wonder about the freedom to, say, not starve if you are kicked out of your home, or the freedom to not be kicked out of your home in the first place because you're gay and there aren't nondiscrimination protections.
locke58
Posts: 5
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3/28/2013 10:47:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 3:19:34 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Notice how Republican states are more free than Democrat states.

No surprise there!
"I won't let you beat me unfairly, I'll beat you unfairly first."
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/29/2013 10:09:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 9:59:10 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
Well, I of course don't agree with their definition of freedom. For instance, I wonder about the freedom to, say, not starve if you are kicked out of your home, or the freedom to not be kicked out of your home in the first place because you're gay and there aren't nondiscrimination protections.

According to the above test, all of those above issues together account for less than 10%.