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North Korea - State of War

Lordknukle
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3/30/2013 1:04:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Getting into a battle with ideologists, no matter how small of a force they posses, is always worse than getting into a fight with people who are simply patriotic or nationalistic i.e., Taliban.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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3/30/2013 1:30:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

I would like to see Obama order B2's to fly directly over Pyongyang, and drop leaflets saying "next time, we'll drop bombs."
Tsar of DDO
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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3/30/2013 7:14:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 1:30:38 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

I would like to see Obama order B2's to fly directly over Pyongyang, and drop leaflets saying "next time, we'll drop bombs."

That would be great, I think that was the message and it got through loud and clear, but still, I'd like to see that.

I'd also like to see Kim Jong-un start wearing big floppy shoes and a red Styrofoam nose as a matter on integrity if he's going to keep making these clownish statements. The fact that they now have a nuclear capability makes this nonsense much more serious, we have to keep him and his regime in our crosshairs for a moments notice now, I don't think clownboy realizes just how dangerous this 60 year old game has become. One false step and Dennis Rodman is going to have to find a new friend.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/30/2013 11:10:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 1:30:38 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

I would like to see Obama order B2's to fly directly over Pyongyang, and drop leaflets saying "next time, we'll drop bombs."

Yes please. That would be amazing.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/30/2013 11:11:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

Well... they can't back up the striking US targets threats but they certainly can make war.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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3/30/2013 11:51:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 11:11:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

Well... they can't back up the striking US targets threats but they certainly can make war.

They can start one, but within hours the Korean People's Army (KPA) would have a new acronym (SHG), standing for Smoking Hole in the Ground.

Tactically speaking, that's not a very good reason to start a war.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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3/30/2013 12:09:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 1:04:03 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Getting into a battle with ideologists, no matter how small of a force they posses, is always worse than getting into a fight with people who are simply patriotic or nationalistic i.e., Taliban.

I don't think they're ideologists. They want to give the impression that they're unstable, but that's just to scare Westerners and South Koreans. It's wrong to assume that they just want a fight because they feel like it. You have to look at this from their perspective.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/30/2013 12:12:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 11:51:35 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:11:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

Well... they can't back up the striking US targets threats but they certainly can make war.

They can start one, but within hours the Korean People's Army (KPA) would have a new acronym (SHG), standing for Smoking Hole in the Ground.

Tactically speaking, that's not a very good reason to start a war.

I don't know about that, I think they'd make it a bloody conflict. Killing people isn't as easy as you think (just look at our War on Terror). Their military is the only thing they care about (at the expense of health, food and power).
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/30/2013 12:19:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 12:12:25 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:51:35 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:11:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

Well... they can't back up the striking US targets threats but they certainly can make war.

They can start one, but within hours the Korean People's Army (KPA) would have a new acronym (SHG), standing for Smoking Hole in the Ground.

Tactically speaking, that's not a very good reason to start a war.

I don't know about that, I think they'd make it a bloody conflict. Killing people isn't as easy as you think (just look at our War on Terror). Their military is the only thing they care about (at the expense of health, food and power).

In guerrilla warfare it isn't. However, this would hardly be guerrilla warfare.
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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/30/2013 12:20:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 12:19:08 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/30/2013 12:12:25 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:51:35 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:11:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

Well... they can't back up the striking US targets threats but they certainly can make war.

They can start one, but within hours the Korean People's Army (KPA) would have a new acronym (SHG), standing for Smoking Hole in the Ground.

Tactically speaking, that's not a very good reason to start a war.

I don't know about that, I think they'd make it a bloody conflict. Killing people isn't as easy as you think (just look at our War on Terror). Their military is the only thing they care about (at the expense of health, food and power).

In guerrilla warfare it isn't. However, this would hardly be guerrilla warfare.

We couldn't beat them in the First Korean "Conflict" why do you think it'd be that much easier now?
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/30/2013 12:22:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 12:20:20 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/30/2013 12:19:08 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/30/2013 12:12:25 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:51:35 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:11:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

Well... they can't back up the striking US targets threats but they certainly can make war.

They can start one, but within hours the Korean People's Army (KPA) would have a new acronym (SHG), standing for Smoking Hole in the Ground.

Tactically speaking, that's not a very good reason to start a war.

I don't know about that, I think they'd make it a bloody conflict. Killing people isn't as easy as you think (just look at our War on Terror). Their military is the only thing they care about (at the expense of health, food and power).

In guerrilla warfare it isn't. However, this would hardly be guerrilla warfare.


We couldn't beat them in the First Korean "Conflict" why do you think it'd be that much easier now?

Are you serious?

Back then we were equal in tech, training, and armaments, thanks to the Russians. Now, it would be like us, a modern superpower, against a rag-tag WWII army. It's hilarious how much we could crush them.

And thats seriously how high tech their army is. It's WWII equivalent.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/30/2013 12:28:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 12:22:54 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/30/2013 12:20:20 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/30/2013 12:19:08 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/30/2013 12:12:25 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:51:35 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:11:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

Well... they can't back up the striking US targets threats but they certainly can make war.

They can start one, but within hours the Korean People's Army (KPA) would have a new acronym (SHG), standing for Smoking Hole in the Ground.

Tactically speaking, that's not a very good reason to start a war.

I don't know about that, I think they'd make it a bloody conflict. Killing people isn't as easy as you think (just look at our War on Terror). Their military is the only thing they care about (at the expense of health, food and power).

In guerrilla warfare it isn't. However, this would hardly be guerrilla warfare.


We couldn't beat them in the First Korean "Conflict" why do you think it'd be that much easier now?

Are you serious?

Back then we were equal in tech, training, and armaments, thanks to the Russians. Now, it would be like us, a modern superpower, against a rag-tag WWII army. It's hilarious how much we could crush them.

And thats seriously how high tech their army is. It's WWII equivalent.

It's a little better than that. I'm not saying we wouldn't win, I'm saying its silly and arrogant to say we'd crush them in mere days.

"and a vast array of chemical and biological weapons.[32] The Korean People's Army also operates ZM-87 anti-personnel lasers, which are banned under the United Nations Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons.[33]"

They've got interesting weapons, tunnels galore, millions of people willing to fight.

It would not be as easy as you think, that's all I'm saying. Besides, we just signed a limited engagement agreement meaning the full power of the US would not be behind South Korea.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/30/2013 12:32:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The whole engagement would depend on whether or not we could win the people over, which is up in the air at this moment. We could probably take the army out easily enough, if we could get some decisive blows in, but whether or not the people are faking their fanatical love for him, or if their serious....
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"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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lannan13
Posts: 23,107
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3/30/2013 7:27:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If we got into a war with north Korea all is they would do is come out of their huts and throw spears at us.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

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DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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3/30/2013 7:34:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I really am more concerned for the Korean people than anyone else. If this escalates into war, the Korean peninsula will essentially be destroyed by the US--the North directly, and the South from all the spillover.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
lannan13
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3/30/2013 7:38:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You realize North Korea is like that kid that is crying in the store. They're crying because they want food because they can't feed their own people and this is the first time the us is laying down the hammer and saying no.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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3/30/2013 7:40:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
NK is going to team up with China and Iran and take over the American Mainland with their laser-armed ninjas.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
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YYW
Posts: 36,391
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3/30/2013 7:47:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 7:40:28 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
NK is going to team up with China and Iran and take over the American Mainland with their laser-armed ninjas.

You is one dumb@ss motha' fucka'
Tsar of DDO
lannan13
Posts: 23,107
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3/30/2013 7:50:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 7:47:46 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/30/2013 7:40:28 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
NK is going to team up with China and Iran and take over the American Mainland with their laser-armed ninjas.

You is one dumb@ss motha' fucka'
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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3/30/2013 9:37:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Better wear your sunglasses.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
DetectableNinja
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3/30/2013 9:42:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 7:38:33 PM, lannan13 wrote:
You realize North Korea is like that kid that is crying in the store. They're crying because they want food because they can't feed their own people and this is the first time the us is laying down the hammer and saying no.

Did you just describing hundreds of thousands of people starving as being akin to whining like a child? Really?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
lannan13
Posts: 23,107
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3/30/2013 9:48:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 9:42:01 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 3/30/2013 7:38:33 PM, lannan13 wrote:
You realize North Korea is like that kid that is crying in the store. They're crying because they want food because they can't feed their own people and this is the first time the us is laying down the hammer and saying no.

Did you just describing hundreds of thousands of people starving as being akin to whining like a child? Really?

How North Korea acts, I didn't say north Koreans. (Notice the noun isn't singular.)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Cermank
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3/31/2013 10:40:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Another development here:

North Korea vowed on Sunday to strengthen its nuclear weapons, a day after announcing it is in a "state of war" with South Korea, and said it would never trade its atomic deterrent for aid.

Tensions have risen sharply since the United Nations tightened sanctions in response to the North's nuclear and missile tests, and since the United States and South Korea launched military drills south of the border.

On Saturday the North declared it was in a "state of war" with the South and warned Seoul and Washington that any provocation would swiftly escalate into an all-out nuclear conflict.

A meeting on Sunday of the central committee of the ruling Workers' Party, chaired by leader Kim Jong-un, decided that the country's possession of nuclear weapons "should be fixed by law", the official KCNA news agency reported without elaborating.

The nuclear armed forces "should be expanded and beefed up qualitatively and quantitatively until the denuclearization of the world is realized", it added.

Members also decided to develop a light-water reactor as part of a civilian nuclear power industry to ease electricity shortages, KCNA said.

The North in 2010 disclosed the existence of a uranium enrichment facility and a light water reactor, purportedly to generate power.

Experts said it could easily be reconfigured to make fuel for nuclear weapons, supplementing the existing plutonium weapons programme.

The North in April 2009 formally abandoned six-party talks which offered it economic and security benefits in return for denuclearization.

On Sunday it reiterated that its atomic weapons are not a bargaining chip.

"They are a treasure of a reunified country which can never be traded with billions of dollars," KCNA quoted the central committee members as saying.
Cermank
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3/31/2013 10:42:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Tl;dr NK vows to strengthen their nuclear capability, and says they won't trade the nuclear weapons for any amount of money.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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3/31/2013 11:01:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I actually did some interesting math a while back.

Look at the nuclear stockpiles of all countries:
http://www.wolframalpha.com...
As you can see, we have 9400 and NK has 5 to 10 nukes.

Now, look at the properties of a nuclear explosion:
http://www.wolframalpha.com...
An airblast would have widespread destruction in a radius of 4.5 miles, for a 1 megaton bomb. I'll assume that all of our nukes are 1 megaton.

Now for North Korea's surface area:
http://www.wolframalpha.com...
46,540 mi^2

And the area that would be affected by a nuclear explosion, using our previous numbers:
http://www.wolframalpha.com...
63.62 mi^2

Now, how many nukes does it take to annihilate North Korea?
http://www.wolframalpha.com...
Rounding up, that's 732 nukes. That's about 7.8% of our nuclear stockpile.

The difference between us and North Korea is that, while both can make threats, we can back ours up. And we can keep the power on in our main cities. And we can launch a satellite into geosynchronous/controlled orbit successfully. And we could probably make propaganda videos without stealing the theme from The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. I don't see why we are considering them a threat at all - even if they start using exotic weapons, that'll only mean that pretty much every UN member nation with backbone will declare war on them. I am also certain they won't be able to make a plutonium bomb, since it takes some skill to get them not to fizzle (something NK has done a good job of proving that they don't have).
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Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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3/31/2013 7:25:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 12:28:14 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/30/2013 12:22:54 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/30/2013 12:20:20 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/30/2013 12:19:08 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/30/2013 12:12:25 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:51:35 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 3/30/2013 11:11:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/29/2013 8:30:55 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
More threats from a country that can't back them up.
http://www.cnn.com...

Well... they can't back up the striking US targets threats but they certainly can make war.

They can start one, but within hours the Korean People's Army (KPA) would have a new acronym (SHG), standing for Smoking Hole in the Ground.

Tactically speaking, that's not a very good reason to start a war.

I don't know about that, I think they'd make it a bloody conflict. Killing people isn't as easy as you think (just look at our War on Terror). Their military is the only thing they care about (at the expense of health, food and power).

In guerrilla warfare it isn't. However, this would hardly be guerrilla warfare.


We couldn't beat them in the First Korean "Conflict" why do you think it'd be that much easier now?

Are you serious?

Back then we were equal in tech, training, and armaments, thanks to the Russians. Now, it would be like us, a modern superpower, against a rag-tag WWII army. It's hilarious how much we could crush them.

And thats seriously how high tech their army is. It's WWII equivalent.

It's a little better than that. I'm not saying we wouldn't win, I'm saying its silly and arrogant to say we'd crush them in mere days.

Nope, it's factual.

"and a vast array of chemical and biological weapons.[32] The Korean People's Army also operates ZM-87 anti-personnel lasers, which are banned under the United Nations Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons.[33]"

They've got interesting weapons, tunnels galore, millions of people willing to fight.

They are the most opprossive miltary regime in the world, thier people are starving, 200,000 of them are in prison camps, most would appreciate us liberating them from this regime.

It would not be as easy as you think, that's all I'm saying.

Piece of cake, they have a lot less than they say they do, and we have more, we put the B-52s and B-2s in the air to demonstrate that we are serious, maybe they didn't get the message, you should have. They are threatening a nuclear attack, we have a nuclear response planned, if it goues there they would be toast in a matter of hours.

Besides, we just signed a limited engagement agreement meaning the full power of the US would not be behind South Korea.

No, we signed an agreement that reduced the requirements for US engagement, committing US support in th event of a low level action, it is a guarantee of US support against any NK agression, and it provides for Seoul to request and get any US military force they deem necessary.

It means the full power of the US is behind South Korea upon request for any NK agression.

It means KJU and every military installation in NK is in our crosshairs, it means if he invokes a nuclear option it will be suicide.

It means he better not make a mistake.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
DanT
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3/31/2013 9:56:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 11:01:33 AM, drhead wrote:
I actually did some interesting math a while back.

Look at the nuclear stockpiles of all countries:
http://www.wolframalpha.com...
As you can see, we have 9400 and NK has 5 to 10 nukes.

That's unreliable. Israel has no confirmed nuclear weapons. So far it is just speculation. As far as India, Pakistan, and North Korea, they have confirmed nuclear weapons, but it is unknown how much they actually have stockpiled. Other than espionage, there is no way to confirm the actual number without their governments making military records available to the public.

Now, look at the properties of a nuclear explosion:
http://www.wolframalpha.com...
An airblast would have widespread destruction in a radius of 4.5 miles, for a 1 megaton bomb. I'll assume that all of our nukes are 1 megaton.

Now for North Korea's surface area:
http://www.wolframalpha.com...
46,540 mi^2

And the area that would be affected by a nuclear explosion, using our previous numbers:
http://www.wolframalpha.com...
63.62 mi^2

Now, how many nukes does it take to annihilate North Korea?
http://www.wolframalpha.com...
Rounding up, that's 732 nukes. That's about 7.8% of our nuclear stockpile.

The difference between us and North Korea is that, while both can make threats, we can back ours up.
Can =/= will
NK is run by fanatics and paranoid schizophrenics who suffer delusions of grandeur. They would not hesitate to use nukes, even if they are faced with total annihilation.

The US government on the other hand would be much more hesitant to wipe an entire nation off the map; especially a bleeding heart.
And we can keep the power on in our main cities. And we can launch a satellite into geosynchronous/controlled orbit successfully. And we could probably make propaganda videos without stealing the theme from The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. I don't see why we are considering them a threat at all - even if they start using exotic weapons, that'll only mean that pretty much every UN member nation with backbone will declare war on them.
We consider them a threat because of their indoctrinations. A major issue in defeating the Japanese was their unwillingness to surrender; they were more willing to die than to surrender. Lt. Hiroo Onoda didn't surrender until 29 years after the Japanese Emperor declared their surrendered.

It's hard fighting against a people who would volunteer execution by their CO for the sake of a mission. And no, volunteering execution by your CO is not the same as throwing yourself in front of the president or running a suicide mission. They are volunteering to be executed by their own team, when it is not necessary, in order to increase the odds of the mission. You don't get that kind of dedication without some serious brainwashing.

I am also certain they won't be able to make a plutonium bomb, since it takes some skill to get them not to fizzle (something NK has done a good job of proving that they don't have).

I would be more worried about biological warfare.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle