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N. Korea Approves Nuclear Attack on U.S.

GeoLaureate8
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4/3/2013 3:27:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"The United States sees a "real and clear" danger from North Korea, given its nuclear and missile capabilities and bellicose rhetoric, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said earlier Wednesday, shortly before the Pentagon's statement.

North Korea has recently threatened to target US and South Korea following new UN sanctions and joint military drills by the two allies."

http://rt.com...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
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4/3/2013 3:31:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
- Will they nuke our Guam base?
- China allegedly condemned N. Korea's recent actions, will China attack or lay off?
- Is N. Korea capable of anything significant?
- Will we send troops to S. Korea and fight a war against the North and will the Chinese jump in?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/3/2013 3:33:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Its a big "No sh!t Sherlock" that they are perfectly fine with us being nuked. The issue is no one else is willing to do it, and they can't.
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/3/2013 3:39:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't understand what the entire deal is with NK getting nuclear weapons. They are more or less surrounded by hostile nations that would not think twice about obliterating their entire population if given the chance. Developing nuclear weapons is simply a matter of self-defence in the face of neighbourly aggression.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
OberHerr
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4/3/2013 3:39:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 3:36:58 PM, Mirza wrote:
It's time for the US to drop breast milk on their Baby Leader. He needs a little more brain development.

Understatement.
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Mirza
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4/3/2013 3:43:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 3:39:24 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I don't understand what the entire deal is with NK getting nuclear weapons. They are more or less surrounded by hostile nations that would not think twice about obliterating their entire population if given the chance.
Given what chance? All their neighbours have the chance to wipe them out. China could possibly remain unpunished, especially if aligned with Russia to deal with them.

Developing nuclear weapons is simply a matter of self-defence in the face of neighbourly aggression.
The self-defence argument goes to South Korea. The war rhetoric comes from the North.
Lordknukle
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4/3/2013 3:46:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 3:43:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/3/2013 3:39:24 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I don't understand what the entire deal is with NK getting nuclear weapons. They are more or less surrounded by hostile nations that would not think twice about obliterating their entire population if given the chance.
Given what chance? All their neighbours have the chance to wipe them out. China could possibly remain unpunished, especially if aligned with Russia to deal with them.

"Given the chance" was more of a general rhetorical statement rather than a specific argument for a series of events. It seems as if we agree on this point.

Developing nuclear weapons is simply a matter of self-defence in the face of neighbourly aggression.
The self-defence argument goes to South Korea. The war rhetoric comes from the North.

The self-defence argument does not only go to the side that the U.S. thinks is "good." If self-defence applies to one side, then it should apply to the other side to protect against this self-defence ad infinitum. Ergo, both sides should have self-defence capabilities.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/3/2013 3:51:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 3:46:34 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The self-defence argument does not only go to the side that the U.S. thinks is "good." If self-defence applies to one side, then it should apply to the other side to protect against this self-defence ad infinitum. Ergo, both sides should have self-defence capabilities.
South Korea does not have nukes. If the US provides for them, there is China - and possibly Russia - to provide for the NK.
OberHerr
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4/3/2013 3:53:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 3:46:34 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The self-defence argument does not only go to the side that the U.S. thinks is "good." If self-defence applies to one side, then it should apply to the other side to protect against this self-defence ad infinitum. Ergo, both sides should have self-defence capabilities.

Except NK has repeatedly said that they would love to blow us and everyone else all to hell, so we get the self-defense argument.
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Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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4/3/2013 4:02:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It was just clownboy Kim Jung-un flapping his gums in a vain attempt to consolidate power internally until now, as long as the Kaesong industrial complex remained open nobody thought he'd really do anything. But he looks to be closing it now, and that is very worrisome, if he is insane enough to provoke a cconfrontation that regime is toast. We are taking him seriously and he and his military are in our crosshairs, he makes one a wrong move and the Korean People's Army will be nothing but a smoking hole in the ground tomorrow.

The real problem is he's created an explosive situation he can't control, there are a million soldiers that he has convinced that an attack from the US and South Korea is imminent, all it takes is a missunderstanding and a soldier with a quick trigger finger to ignite this situation, a couple shots fired, a cannon shot, somebody panics and fires a rocket at Seoul, and we will obliterate the KPA. KJU is no threat to the US, what they are a threat to is the global economy which is tenuous at best, an attack on Seoul brings down the global economy and his only ally, China doesn't want that, this guy is all alone in his insanity right now. He makes the wrong move and China will take him out if we don't.

Clownboy is walking a tightrope and one false step and he and his antiquated army will be a thing of the past.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/3/2013 4:04:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 4:02:09 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
It was just clownboy Kim Jung-un flapping his gums in a vain attempt to consolidate power internally until now, as long as the Kaesong industrial complex remained open nobody thought he'd really do anything. But he looks to be closing it now, and that is very worrisome, if he is insane enough to provoke a cconfrontation that regime is toast. We are taking him seriously and he and his military are in our crosshairs, he makes one a wrong move and the Korean People's Army will be nothing but a smoking hole in the ground tomorrow.

The real problem is he's created an explosive situation he can't control, there are a million soldiers that he has convinced that an attack from the US and South Korea is imminent, all it takes is a missunderstanding and a soldier with a quick trigger finger to ignite this situation, a couple shots fired, a cannon shot, somebody panics and fires a rocket at Seoul, and we will obliterate the KPA. KJU is no threat to the US, what they are a threat to is the global economy which is tenuous at best, an attack on Seoul brings down the global economy and his only ally, China doesn't want that, this guy is all alone in his insanity right now. He makes the wrong move and China will take him out if we don't.

Clownboy is walking a tightrope and one false step and he and his antiquated army will be a thing of the past.

I'm hoping one day we will remember those silly days of the North Korea........

Hopefully we will eventually see a united Korea. And not a KPA one either.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/3/2013 4:51:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 3:51:13 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/3/2013 3:46:34 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The self-defence argument does not only go to the side that the U.S. thinks is "good." If self-defence applies to one side, then it should apply to the other side to protect against this self-defence ad infinitum. Ergo, both sides should have self-defence capabilities.
South Korea does not have nukes.

South Korea essentially has access to the U.S.' virtually infinite supply of nukes in case of a war.

If the US provides for them, there is China - and possibly Russia - to provide for the NK.

Unlikely. NK has expressed threats to bomb the United States and that is not in China or Russia's best interests.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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4/3/2013 4:52:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 3:53:11 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/3/2013 3:46:34 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The self-defence argument does not only go to the side that the U.S. thinks is "good." If self-defence applies to one side, then it should apply to the other side to protect against this self-defence ad infinitum. Ergo, both sides should have self-defence capabilities.

Except NK has repeatedly said that they would love to blow us and everyone else all to hell, so we get the self-defense argument.

Actually, if you read my argument, everybody gets the self- defence argument. Even accepting your erroneous premise that the United States gets it first, NK gets the self-defence argument in response to the U.S.' self-defence argument.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/3/2013 4:53:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 4:39:21 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I saw this thread and was alarmed for a minute. Then I saw who wrote it and was relieved. I've never been happier to see you geo.

U.S. Defense Secretary, Chuck Hagel wrote it, not me.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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4/3/2013 5:05:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 3:31:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
- Will they nuke our Guam base?

I don't think that NK would nuke the mainland, but I think there is a legitimate possibility that they could nuke our base in Guam (which, btw. we should be equipping with a missile defense system sooner rather than later). Right now, the "usual signs" of militarization that NK usually takes -like massing troops on the NK/SK border- aren't taking place, but the reason for that could be that they have bolder plans or that they're just bluffing as usual. In any case, it's not a risk the Obama administration can afford to take.

- China allegedly condemned N. Korea's recent actions, will China attack or lay off?

The answer to that question would depend on what the Obama administration handles the emergent crisis. If we bombed Pyongyang, they would probably condemn the act but do nothing further. If we mounted a ground invasion, who knows.... I think, though, that the Obama administration has probably been in contact with Beijing since the beginning of this and that Obama won't do anything without at least first letting them know what we're going to do.

- Is N. Korea capable of anything significant?

Yes (which is what's especially disconcerting).

- Will we send troops to S. Korea and fight a war against the North and will the Chinese jump in?

I don't think it's likely that troops will be put on the ground unless doing so is indispensable to the defense of South Korea. I don't think, though, that if North Korea first attacked South Korea that Beijing would come to NK's aid.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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4/3/2013 5:06:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 4:53:22 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/3/2013 4:39:21 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I saw this thread and was alarmed for a minute. Then I saw who wrote it and was relieved. I've never been happier to see you geo.

U.S. Defense Secretary, Chuck Hagel wrote it, not me.

And this is a very legitimate concern.
Tsar of DDO
DanT
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4/3/2013 5:29:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 4:56:05 PM, Wnope wrote:
I'm interested in seeing how China reacts. They don't seem fond of NK attacking SK anymore than we are.
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"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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4/3/2013 5:43:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 3:27:41 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"The United States sees a "real and clear" danger from North Korea, given its nuclear and missile capabilities and bellicose rhetoric, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said earlier Wednesday, shortly before the Pentagon's statement.

North Korea has recently threatened to target US and South Korea following new UN sanctions and joint military drills by the two allies."

http://rt.com...

They have also threatened to nuke Okinawa.

Troops on both sides have been mobilizing since march. Starting in March the Chinese have been massing troops on the Korean border. I know Marines stationed in Okinawa who had been mobilizing in March, and I haven't heard from them since.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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4/3/2013 7:04:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 4:04:12 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/3/2013 4:02:09 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
It was just clownboy Kim Jung-un flapping his gums in a vain attempt to consolidate power internally until now, as long as the Kaesong industrial complex remained open nobody thought he'd really do anything. But he looks to be closing it now, and that is very worrisome, if he is insane enough to provoke a confrontation that regime is toast. We are taking him seriously and he and his military are in our crosshairs, he makes one a wrong move and the Korean People's Army will be nothing but a smoking hole in the ground tomorrow.

The real problem is he's created an explosive situation he can't control, there are a million soldiers that he has convinced that an attack from the US and South Korea is imminent, all it takes is a misunderstanding and a soldier with a quick trigger finger to ignite this situation, a couple shots fired, a cannon shot, somebody panics and fires a rocket at Seoul, and we will obliterate the KPA. KJU is no threat to the US, what they are a threat to is the global economy which is tenuous at best, an attack on Seoul brings down the global economy and his only ally, China doesn't want that, this guy is all alone in his insanity right now. He makes the wrong move and China will take him out if we don't.

Clownboy is walking a tightrope and one false step and he and his antiquated army will be a thing of the past.

I'm hoping one day we will remember those silly days of the North Korea........

Hopefully we will eventually see a united Korea. And not a KPA one either.

Nobody wants a united KPA Korea, not even the North Koreans, they are one of the most oppressive regimes on earth. The median household income in NK is $1,800, compared to $32,000 in the south, their entire GDP is only 13.7 Billion, SK's is 35 times higher. Over 200,000 North Koreans are in prison camps, most of the citizens are starving, the average North Korean is 2 inches shorter than the average South Korean because of malnourishment, the infant mortality rate is six times higher than in the south. There are no trees in North Korea because they have all been cut down for firewood by a cold starving population. All of this in a country that if it was unified, would be roughly the size of Utah. This is about as failed of a regime as you can get.

This country needs to be liberated from this psycho military dictatorship, we'd be doing everybody a favor if we vaporize the KPA tomorrow.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
APB
Posts: 267
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4/3/2013 9:32:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Whether North Korea has a "right" to have nukes is irrelevant. The fact that they're controlled by some kid with a short temper is a good enough reason for the United Nations to take action against them.

I just hope this conflict stays in Korea. And if the US does invade, they'd better deliver the country to the South Korean government instead of leaving it as another terrorist breeding ground.
CiRrK
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4/3/2013 9:55:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Time for the US to use preventative and preemptive action. China and Russia will remain neutral; US can destroy most if not all North Korean missile threats; end of the regime.
dylancatlow
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4/3/2013 9:57:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 9:55:12 PM, CiRrK wrote:
Time for the US to use preventative and preemptive action. China and Russia will remain neutral; US can destroy most if not all North Korean missile threats; end of the regime.

As much as I'd love to see that, it's far too risky in my opinion.
lewis20
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4/3/2013 10:28:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 9:32:08 PM, APB wrote:
Whether North Korea has a "right" to have nukes is irrelevant. The fact that they're controlled by some kid with a short temper is a good enough reason for the United Nations to take action against them.

I just hope this conflict stays in Korea. And if the US does invade, they'd better deliver the country to the South Korean government instead of leaving it as another terrorist breeding ground.

Deliver it to South Korea? The problem isn't the North Korean Regime, it's the millions of mal-nourished brain washed North Korean refugees who no one wants to deal with.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
dylancatlow
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4/3/2013 10:29:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 10:28:45 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/3/2013 9:32:08 PM, APB wrote:
Whether North Korea has a "right" to have nukes is irrelevant. The fact that they're controlled by some kid with a short temper is a good enough reason for the United Nations to take action against them.

I just hope this conflict stays in Korea. And if the US does invade, they'd better deliver the country to the South Korean government instead of leaving it as another terrorist breeding ground.

Deliver it to South Korea? The problem isn't the North Korean Regime, it's the millions of mal-nourished brain washed North Korean refugees who no one wants to deal with.

They wouldn't accept it, anyhow. Who would? It's icky.
lewis20
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4/3/2013 10:36:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't understand why we can't re establish diplomatic relations, at least try to talk to them. Dear leader was educated in the west, he has to have at least a semi-balanced view of world politics. They are like a child, you have to treat them like such. Even the best case scenario of armed conflict will be multitudes worse than if we somehow got them on a trajectory toward becoming a normal state actor.
I mean for shts sake, the kid is infatuated with Dennis Rodman, You're telling me our state department isn't smart enough to parlay some basketball diplomacy into a productive dialogue?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
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4/3/2013 10:40:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 9:55:12 PM, CiRrK wrote:
Time for the US to use preventative and preemptive action. China and Russia will remain neutral; US can destroy most if not all North Korean missile threats; end of the regime.

Then what, we're plenty good at blowing stuff up, not so good at the picking up the pieces.
As long as they don't pose a direct military threat (they won't for the next century at least) I don't think there's any reason to initiate a military conflict with them.
If they hit first, which I highly doubt they ever would, then by all means blow the regime off the map.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/4/2013 3:58:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 4:51:34 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
South Korea essentially has access to the U.S.' virtually infinite supply of nukes in case of a war.
China provides the majority of resources for North Korea. Why assume they would
not help NK if they were attacked without provoking? Both the North and South have allies with nukes. It is balanced out.

Unlikely. NK has expressed threats to bomb the United States and that is not in China or Russia's best interests.
That's exactly the point - the one who threatens is the one who should be kept away from the most powerful weapons. What we're discussing is whether there is a balance of power between the North and South in terms of atomic weapons. You're saying, "Uh but NK wants to be the aggressor" - that just means they should be kept further away from obtaining nuclear missiles.