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Obama is More Radical than Hollande

BigRat
Posts: 465
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4/4/2013 12:06:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is from the financial times:

"Mr Hollande himself has acknowledged that the state has got too big. "Public spending has reached 57 per cent of national wealth. It was 52 per cent five years ago. Do we live better for it? No," he said late last year."

Link here: http://marginalrevolution.com...

In the USA, Barack Obama has been obsessively defending the size and scope of the current state as well as the future trajectory of the state (which is on track to expand dramatically). Barack Obama has never and would never admit that the current state in the USA is too large. He has shown himself to be more of a committed and radical statist than even self described socialists like Hollande.

By the way, Hollande is proposing spending cuts as well. These aren't like the phony spending cuts that Obama uses accounting tricks to claim he is doing (and supporters ignorantly claim that he has cut spending). They are real spending cuts that reduce the amount the state is spending.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/4/2013 1:43:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Interesting post, Ratatouille! You may be interested in my initial debate on DDO: http://www.debate.org...
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
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Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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4/4/2013 12:24:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 12:23:11 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Your mother is more radical than Hollande...

Seriously, in our weekly anarchist meetings she suggests some pretty off the wall stuff. You should tell her to chill out once in a while, y'know?
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/4/2013 1:51:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm not a liberal, but we should put this in context. Washington's spending currently is responsible for I believe 21-23% of all GDP, and after including state and local governments I think it is a total of 30-40%.

Washington itself isn't spending nearly as much as the French central gov't, on a percentage of GDP basis.

I still do favor spending cuts though, absolutely.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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4/4/2013 3:12:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Radical compared to what? Compared to the country each president has been elected to, or radical compared to the rest of the world? If the former, then Obama is more radical, if the latter, France is more radical. Both are correct.

If a president is elected (lol) to North Korea, and upholds the policies already in place, he can't be called a radical to North Korea specifically, but he can be called a radical if one looks at the situation with a more... moderate lens.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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4/4/2013 3:34:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 3:12:50 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Radical compared to what? Compared to the country each president has been elected to, or radical compared to the rest of the world? If the former, then Obama is more radical, if the latter, France is more radical. Both are correct.

If a president is elected (lol) to North Korea, and upholds the policies already in place, he can't be called a radical to North Korea specifically, but he can be called a radical if one looks at the situation with a more... moderate lens.

Lol, by "France," I meant Hollande. Derp.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/4/2013 4:23:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 1:51:31 PM, Contra wrote:
I'm not a liberal, but we should put this in context. Washington's spending currently is responsible for I believe 21-23% of all GDP, and after including state and local governments I think it is a total of 30-40%.

And Washington, as well as the state and local governments and the thousands of regulatory agencies impose a thick and perverse web of regulations on the remaining economy that we have.

Washington itself isn't spending nearly as much as the French central gov't, on a percentage of GDP basis.

I still do favor spending cuts though, absolutely.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
BigRat
Posts: 465
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4/4/2013 5:46:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 1:51:31 PM, Contra wrote:
I'm not a liberal, but we should put this in context. Washington's spending currently is responsible for I believe 21-23% of all GDP, and after including state and local governments I think it is a total of 30-40%.

Washington itself isn't spending nearly as much as the French central gov't, on a percentage of GDP basis.

I still do favor spending cuts though, absolutely.

True. But, France is smaller, less diverse, less decentralized, and more collectivistic (in terms of culture) than the USA. This means that the optimal state would be larger in France than in the USA.

The state is too large in both places. I would argue that the optimal state is something like 20-25% of GDP in the USA (this is total government spending including local and state) and more like 25-30% in France.

So, a state that is, for example 50% of GDP is, IMO, radical in both countries but would be more radical in the USA than in France.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/4/2013 9:52:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 5:46:20 PM, BigRat wrote:
At 4/4/2013 1:51:31 PM, Contra wrote:
I'm not a liberal, but we should put this in context. Washington's spending currently is responsible for I believe 21-23% of all GDP, and after including state and local governments I think it is a total of 30-40%.

Washington itself isn't spending nearly as much as the French central gov't, on a percentage of GDP basis.

I still do favor spending cuts though, absolutely.


True. But, France is smaller, less diverse, less decentralized, and more collectivistic (in terms of culture) than the USA. This means that the optimal state would be larger in France than in the USA.

The state is too large in both places. I would argue that the optimal state is something like 20-25% of GDP in the USA (this is total government spending including local and state) and more like 25-30% in France.

So, a state that is, for example 50% of GDP is, IMO, radical in both countries but would be more radical in the USA than in France.

Ok, that is what I was looking for! :D

I hope Obama gets it right sometime; decides to lower corporate taxes, cut the spending and the red tape which is holding back our country.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan