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Allies Lose WW2, Fascist modernity.

A.WitherspoonVI
Posts: 2
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4/4/2013 10:44:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Lets just suppose the Axis powers won World War Two on the following circumstances:
England invaded and surrenders in 1941
Japan does not attack Pearl Harbor in 1941 but instead waits until 1942 to wage a successful war resulting in the Fascitization of the United States.
Soviet Union survives with concessions to the Germans.
Both in the late 1940's have Atomic bombs and Mutually Assured Destruction takes it's course causes a cold war between Fascism and Communism.
The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere is Built in Asia,
The Nazi's constructed the Greater Reich,
and Mussolini founded the 2nd Roman Empire.

Now here comes the fun part, in this new world what would Fascism have developed into? With Fascism as the inevitable course of Human history how would it have evolved? With Mutually assured destruction cooling of the possibility of another world war would Nazism collapsed to be replaced by another form of Fascism or would it's contradictions be too small?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/4/2013 11:02:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 10:44:03 PM, A.WitherspoonVI wrote:
Lets just suppose the Axis powers won World War Two on the following circumstances:
England invaded and surrenders in 1941
Japan does not attack Pearl Harbor in 1941 but instead waits until 1942 to wage a successful war resulting in the Fascitization of the United States.
Soviet Union survives with concessions to the Germans.
Both in the late 1940's have Atomic bombs and Mutually Assured Destruction takes it's course causes a cold war between Fascism and Communism.
The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere is Built in Asia,
The Nazi's constructed the Greater Reich,
and Mussolini founded the 2nd Roman Empire.

Now here comes the fun part, in this new world what would Fascism have developed into? With Fascism as the inevitable course of Human history how would it have evolved? With Mutually assured destruction cooling of the possibility of another world war would Nazism collapsed to be replaced by another form of Fascism or would it's contradictions be too small?

Like there was any threat of the US being taken over.
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/4/2013 11:49:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 10:44:03 PM, A.WitherspoonVI wrote:
Lets just suppose the Axis powers won World War Two on the following circumstances:
England invaded and surrenders in 1941
Japan does not attack Pearl Harbor in 1941 but instead waits until 1942 to wage a successful war resulting in the Fascitization of the United States.
Soviet Union survives with concessions to the Germans.
Both in the late 1940's have Atomic bombs and Mutually Assured Destruction takes it's course causes a cold war between Fascism and Communism.
The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere is Built in Asia,
The Nazi's constructed the Greater Reich,
and Mussolini founded the 2nd Roman Empire.

Now here comes the fun part, in this new world what would Fascism have developed into? With Fascism as the inevitable course of Human history how would it have evolved? With Mutually assured destruction cooling of the possibility of another world war would Nazism collapsed to be replaced by another form of Fascism or would it's contradictions be too small?

Oh dear. You are using "fascism" and "nazism" interchangeably. How pitiful.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/5/2013 11:45:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Fascism in fact didn't end by war. The United States and Francoist Spain, both practitioners of the Fascist system, continued to exist after WWII.

The United States' fascist programs stabilized through the 1950s, and got gutted in the 1980s, and though some still exist today, a program of consensus central planning between a united government, established business elites, established labor unions, and the other major "institutions" of society no longer quite dominates our system, much as some on the left would like to return it.

Franco loosened up his economic controls somewhat in 1959, which caused a boom until the stuff in the 70s screwed up pretty much every country. His social system lasted till his death, and now Spain is like any other Eurosocialist state, except with even more unemployment.

A high degree of fascism won't be sustained, whatever wars you win. It wears down on the economy until you change or die.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/6/2013 11:32:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 11:02:25 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/4/2013 10:44:03 PM, A.WitherspoonVI wrote:
Lets just suppose the Axis powers won World War Two on the following circumstances:
England invaded and surrenders in 1941
Japan does not attack Pearl Harbor in 1941 but instead waits until 1942 to wage a successful war resulting in the Fascitization of the United States.
Soviet Union survives with concessions to the Germans.
Both in the late 1940's have Atomic bombs and Mutually Assured Destruction takes it's course causes a cold war between Fascism and Communism.
The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere is Built in Asia,
The Nazi's constructed the Greater Reich,
and Mussolini founded the 2nd Roman Empire.

Now here comes the fun part, in this new world what would Fascism have developed into? With Fascism as the inevitable course of Human history how would it have evolved? With Mutually assured destruction cooling of the possibility of another world war would Nazism collapsed to be replaced by another form of Fascism or would it's contradictions be too small?

Like there was any threat of the US being taken over.

I think DK's point hits on the key determinant of WWII - what would the US have done?

The US supported both Churchill and Stalin against Hitler...they used them to balance against Nazi rule. Once all relevant parties were weak enough, the US came and "liberated" Europe.

To say that the US would have acted differently would require some sort of justification for such action.

Regarding the GEACPS (Japan), that would require that Japan somehow get the raw materials required to continue to wage their war. Either they would have had to attack Australia, or USSR. Had Hitler and Hirohito been able to cooperate on such an affair, then indeed history may have turned out very differently. It would have been interesting to see what would have occurred under such a scenario...would the US have declared war against the Axis on behalf of the USSR? Regardless, a 1942 scenario is wholly unrealistic. Even if conquering the USSR was successful (probably a decades long endeavor in itself), Japan would still have to consolidate the territory, and also somehow overcome the gigantic manpower advantage the US would have (assuming that the Sino-Japanese war also would take decades to resolve).

On Hitler and Mussolini cooperating, highly doubtful. The Nazis were the true power in Europe, Mussolini would have been nothing but a puppet emperor.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?