Total Posts:45|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

a murderer bought a gun today

yoman82
Posts: 9
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 7:51:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A murderer bought a gun today...It took him less than 20 minutes...It came loaded ...with no numbers....anyone can do the same with a little effort......none of the guns used at Sandy Hook were procured legally...most weapons used in crimes are not...........how is the current gun legislation going to solve this?
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 8:10:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 7:51:51 PM, yoman82 wrote:
A murderer bought a gun today...It took him less than 20 minutes...It came loaded ...with no numbers....anyone can do the same with a little effort......none of the guns used at Sandy Hook were procured legally...most weapons used in crimes are not...........how is the current gun legislation going to solve this?

ok...wrong...wrong...wrong...wrong...wrong...right...current legislation wouldn't have prevented any of the recent mass shootings.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
glassplotful
Posts: 52
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 8:12:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, it's the belief of many Americans, including myself that gun control legislation does not attack the root problem. I don't believe it will solve anything- rather, it will allocate more resources to the more crime-ridden facets of our society (namely gangs, mobs, organized crime).
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,730
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 8:12:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Lewis was the murderer who bought the gun...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 8:14:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 8:12:29 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Lewis was the murderer who bought the gun...

How do you think I knew all that...
But in reality murderers can't afford guns at these inflated prices...ridiculous.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Izayah003
Posts: 369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 8:25:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Finally someone brought up guns..lmao

yes even with gun legislation gun violence will still happen. wrong the guns were legal since his mother owned them. But again there is nothing unconstitutional about the gun legislation. the gun ban purposed would not ban anyone from owning those weapons, or even using them. The gun ban proposed is the reinstatement of the gun ban that was law from 1994-2004, which in that law it even said that prior to the gun ban any weapons purchased could be used, sold and owned. the only thing the ban actually does is limits manufacturing of any new weapons under that ban, so the ones being effected by this gun ban are the manufacturers and the NRA.

Now it is true, it does not target the issue, we need universal background checks, as well as better mental health structure, which is also being addressed as well.
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 8:27:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 8:25:19 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
Finally someone brought up guns..lmao

yes even with gun legislation gun violence will still happen. wrong the guns were legal since his mother owned them. But again there is nothing unconstitutional about the gun legislation. the gun ban purposed would not ban anyone from owning those weapons, or even using them. The gun ban proposed is the reinstatement of the gun ban that was law from 1994-2004, which in that law it even said that prior to the gun ban any weapons purchased could be used, sold and owned. the only thing the ban actually does is limits manufacturing of any new weapons under that ban, so the ones being effected by this gun ban are the manufacturers and the NRA.

Now it is true, it does not target the issue, we need universal background checks, as well as better mental health structure, which is also being addressed as well.

I think you're a little behind on the gun legislation, Feinsteins assault weapons band was excluded from the main bill and doesn't have a chance of passing in the Senate as an amendment. In other words it's not happening.
The debate is over expanding universal background checks to include personal sales.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 8:31:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I also can't say enough bad things about Diane Feinstein, possibly one of the worst politicians in Washington.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Izayah003
Posts: 369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 8:38:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 8:27:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 8:25:19 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
Finally someone brought up guns..lmao

yes even with gun legislation gun violence will still happen. wrong the guns were legal since his mother owned them. But again there is nothing unconstitutional about the gun legislation. the gun ban purposed would not ban anyone from owning those weapons, or even using them. The gun ban proposed is the reinstatement of the gun ban that was law from 1994-2004, which in that law it even said that prior to the gun ban any weapons purchased could be used, sold and owned. the only thing the ban actually does is limits manufacturing of any new weapons under that ban, so the ones being effected by this gun ban are the manufacturers and the NRA.

Now it is true, it does not target the issue, we need universal background checks, as well as better mental health structure, which is also being addressed as well.

I think you're a little behind on the gun legislation, Feinsteins assault weapons band was excluded from the main bill and doesn't have a chance of passing in the Senate as an amendment. In other words it's not happening.
The debate is over expanding universal background checks to include personal sales.

ah ok so you don't agree with that?
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 8:48:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 8:38:12 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 8:27:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 8:25:19 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
Finally someone brought up guns..lmao

yes even with gun legislation gun violence will still happen. wrong the guns were legal since his mother owned them. But again there is nothing unconstitutional about the gun legislation. the gun ban purposed would not ban anyone from owning those weapons, or even using them. The gun ban proposed is the reinstatement of the gun ban that was law from 1994-2004, which in that law it even said that prior to the gun ban any weapons purchased could be used, sold and owned. the only thing the ban actually does is limits manufacturing of any new weapons under that ban, so the ones being effected by this gun ban are the manufacturers and the NRA.

Now it is true, it does not target the issue, we need universal background checks, as well as better mental health structure, which is also being addressed as well.

I think you're a little behind on the gun legislation, Feinsteins assault weapons band was excluded from the main bill and doesn't have a chance of passing in the Senate as an amendment. In other words it's not happening.
The debate is over expanding universal background checks to include personal sales.

ah ok so you don't agree with that?

As it stands now I can find someone on Indiana gun owners forums looking to sell a gun and I can buy it from them. I'd show them my drivers license and license to carry handgun and then buy it with cash. I like that.
If the legislation passes we'll have to go find a Federal Firearm Licensed dealer and fill out paperwork, submit to a background check everytime (despite the fact that the license to carry handgun proves you've been fignerprinted, have a clear background and are registered with the local law enforcement agency) and pay their fee, every time I want to buy or trade a gun with someone, which is fairly often.
That'd be a royal pain. If you think that 'anything to save just one life' is a valid argument, then you probably wouldn't care about my inconvenience and extra costs. But in the end the tragedies being used to force this legislation through would have in no way thwarted the attacks.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Izayah003
Posts: 369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 8:54:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 8:48:42 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 8:38:12 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 8:27:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 8:25:19 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
Finally someone brought up guns..lmao

yes even with gun legislation gun violence will still happen. wrong the guns were legal since his mother owned them. But again there is nothing unconstitutional about the gun legislation. the gun ban purposed would not ban anyone from owning those weapons, or even using them. The gun ban proposed is the reinstatement of the gun ban that was law from 1994-2004, which in that law it even said that prior to the gun ban any weapons purchased could be used, sold and owned. the only thing the ban actually does is limits manufacturing of any new weapons under that ban, so the ones being effected by this gun ban are the manufacturers and the NRA.

Now it is true, it does not target the issue, we need universal background checks, as well as better mental health structure, which is also being addressed as well.

I think you're a little behind on the gun legislation, Feinsteins assault weapons band was excluded from the main bill and doesn't have a chance of passing in the Senate as an amendment. In other words it's not happening.
The debate is over expanding universal background checks to include personal sales.

ah ok so you don't agree with that?

As it stands now I can find someone on Indiana gun owners forums looking to sell a gun and I can buy it from them. I'd show them my drivers license and license to carry handgun and then buy it with cash. I like that.
If the legislation passes we'll have to go find a Federal Firearm Licensed dealer and fill out paperwork, submit to a background check everytime (despite the fact that the license to carry handgun proves you've been fignerprinted, have a clear background and are registered with the local law enforcement agency) and pay their fee, every time I want to buy or trade a gun with someone, which is fairly often.
That'd be a royal pain. If you think that 'anything to save just one life' is a valid argument, then you probably wouldn't care about my inconvenience and extra costs. But in the end the tragedies being used to force this legislation through would have in no way thwarted the attacks.

so because it would be a royal pain to you, that must mean that it's going against someones rights, or unconstitutional? sorry if i have that mistaken since so far that's all i keep hearing is how unconstitutional it is. but I think it was what, around 40% of all guns purchased is not granted a background check? so lets say that I get my permit, and then something happens i lose my mind and i want to buy a gun, well now i'm nuts, "but hey i have my card, i can have a gun, whats the worst that can happen" the vast majority of this country is in favor of it, and ending Strawman purchases.
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 9:02:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 8:54:57 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
so because it would be a royal pain to you, that must mean that it's going against someones rights, or unconstitutional? sorry if i have that mistaken since so far that's all i keep hearing is how unconstitutional it is. but I think it was what, around 40% of all guns purchased is not granted a background check? so lets say that I get my permit, and then something happens i lose my mind and i want to buy a gun, well now i'm nuts, "but hey i have my card, i can have a gun, whats the worst that can happen" the vast majority of this country is in favor of it, and ending Strawman purchases.

strawman purchases are already illegal, that hasn't prevented them.
Old legislation:
If I want a gun but won't pass a background check, I'll let you buy it from an FFL and then illegally sell it to me. Breaking the law.
With this new legislation:
If I want a gun but won't pass a background check, I'll let you buy it from an FFL and then illegally sell it to me without a background check. Breaking the law.

Why would criminals obtaining guns through illegal strawman purchases all of the sudden start abiding by a new law that says they must now go through an FFL to buy the gun?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
yoman82
Posts: 9
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 9:20:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
They need to see the fact that they are not solving the current problem with the new legislation. ..that is why it will never pass..what they need to do is focus on illegal firearms distribution laws, illegal firearm possession laws, increase gun buyback programs, and increase penalties for multiple offenders for those forementioned...
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 9:25:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Gun buyback programs are rather ineffective, they get relatively few guns off the street and as long as manufactures are still making guns and people are still buying them, it's like trying to bail water out of a sinking boat with a cup, there will continue to be more put into circulation than taken out.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
yoman82
Posts: 9
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 9:37:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes this is true.. but it does help...you said another problem yourself...why are we making all these guns? ...the supply obviously exceeds the demand
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 9:40:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 9:37:33 PM, yoman82 wrote:
Yes this is true.. but it does help...you said another problem yourself...why are we making all these guns? ...the supply obviously exceeds the demand

Right now, with the gun scare, demand far, far exceeds the supply. You can't find a semi auto weapon nor magazines nor centerfire bullets in any stores.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Cowboy0108
Posts: 420
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 9:50:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The problem is not guns, it is the violence. Either make people too scared to commit violent acts or change society to correct our current problems. Don't ask how to do this, just do it. Gun legislation will not fix any of the important problems and will only make things worse.
yoman82
Posts: 9
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 9:52:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 9:40:13 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 9:37:33 PM, yoman82 wrote:
Yes this is true.. but it does help...you said another problem yourself...why are we making all these guns? ...the supply obviously exceeds the demand

Right now, with the gun scare, demand far, far exceeds the supply. You can't find a semi auto weapon nor magazines nor centerfire bullets in any stores.

Yes...I've noticed that...yet there are millions of illegal guns on the streets..couldn't we confiscate and re-register and resell?...the arms manfufacturing companies could be the solution...taking illegal guns off the streets and redistributing them as registered legal firearms. ..
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 10:02:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 9:50:32 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
The problem is not guns, it is the violence. Either make people too scared to commit violent acts or change society to correct our current problems. Don't ask how to do this, just do it. Gun legislation will not fix any of the important problems and will only make things worse.

The solution the NRA has come up with is doing away with gun free zones, the idea is that if a shooter is afraid his victims could potentially shoot back, he might be less likely to commit the crime.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 10:06:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 9:52:47 PM, yoman82 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 9:40:13 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 9:37:33 PM, yoman82 wrote:
Yes this is true.. but it does help...you said another problem yourself...why are we making all these guns? ...the supply obviously exceeds the demand

Right now, with the gun scare, demand far, far exceeds the supply. You can't find a semi auto weapon nor magazines nor centerfire bullets in any stores.

Yes...I've noticed that...yet there are millions of illegal guns on the streets..couldn't we confiscate and re-register and resell?...the arms manfufacturing companies could be the solution...taking illegal guns off the streets and redistributing them as registered legal firearms. ..

Guns aren't registered, so called 'illegal' guns themselves aren't illegal, they are just regular guns owned by people who can't legally own them.

That's why it doesn't make sense to destroy guns bought in gun buyback programs. As demand will be met by the manufacture of new guns, gun buybacks really only help in getting guns out of the hands of those who, for whatever reason, don't want them. The destroying of the gun doesn't put a dent in net firearms in circulation.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Izayah003
Posts: 369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 10:31:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 10:02:01 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 9:50:32 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
The problem is not guns, it is the violence. Either make people too scared to commit violent acts or change society to correct our current problems. Don't ask how to do this, just do it. Gun legislation will not fix any of the important problems and will only make things worse.

The solution the NRA has come up with is doing away with gun free zones, the idea is that if a shooter is afraid his victims could potentially shoot back, he might be less likely to commit the crime.

yes! let's stop gun violence by adding more guns to the mix! because it's worked out so well for us thus far!
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 10:38:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 10:31:27 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 10:02:01 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 9:50:32 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
The problem is not guns, it is the violence. Either make people too scared to commit violent acts or change society to correct our current problems. Don't ask how to do this, just do it. Gun legislation will not fix any of the important problems and will only make things worse.

The solution the NRA has come up with is doing away with gun free zones, the idea is that if a shooter is afraid his victims could potentially shoot back, he might be less likely to commit the crime.

yes! let's stop gun violence by adding more guns to the mix! because it's worked out so well for us thus far!

No one said add more guns, they said don't make gun free shooting zones for criminals to have a field day with absolutely no chance of opposition.

Also, places with higher gun ownership tend to have lower gun crime rates than areas that ban firearms.
http://www.justfacts.com...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Izayah003
Posts: 369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 10:45:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 10:38:30 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 10:31:27 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 10:02:01 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 9:50:32 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
The problem is not guns, it is the violence. Either make people too scared to commit violent acts or change society to correct our current problems. Don't ask how to do this, just do it. Gun legislation will not fix any of the important problems and will only make things worse.

The solution the NRA has come up with is doing away with gun free zones, the idea is that if a shooter is afraid his victims could potentially shoot back, he might be less likely to commit the crime.

yes! let's stop gun violence by adding more guns to the mix! because it's worked out so well for us thus far!

No one said add more guns, they said don't make gun free shooting zones for criminals to have a field day with absolutely no chance of opposition.

Also, places with higher gun ownership tend to have lower gun crime rates than areas that ban firearms.
http://www.justfacts.com...

while this may be true, the problem is all the NRA cares about is making sure guns continue to be sold, so every time there is talk of gun violance their answer is "more guns" that's just as absurd as "ban certain types of guns". The NRA does not give a damn about what is constitutional or not, the more people who have guns, the more money they make. it's all profits and margins to them. to think otherwise is also absurd.
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 10:54:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 10:45:17 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
while this may be true, the problem is all the NRA cares about is making sure guns continue to be sold, so every time there is talk of gun violance their answer is "more guns" that's just as absurd as "ban certain types of guns". The NRA does not give a damn about what is constitutional or not, the more people who have guns, the more money they make. it's all profits and margins to them. to think otherwise is also absurd.

That is absolutely not true, the media and politicians have done more to boost gun sales in the past few months than the NRA could ever dream. The NRA is actively fighting the current legislation which wouldn't hurt sales of new guns, but would actually be a help to gun stores and brokers who would now be in charge of all firearm transactions. This extra cost and inconvenience would also serve to make firearms sold from said stores more competitive with private sales.

Also the NRA doesn't sell guns and doesn't make money off firearm sales, so it's not profit, or margins to them. They make more money when they get new members and when they stir up interest become firearm owners and collectors.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 11:00:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Also, places with higher gun ownership tend to have lower gun crime rates than areas that ban firearms.
http://www.justfacts.com...;

I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but couldn't stricter gun control policies be in response to higher gun crime rates, not cause them?
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 11:03:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 10:45:17 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 10:38:30 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 10:31:27 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 10:02:01 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 9:50:32 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
The problem is not guns, it is the violence. Either make people too scared to commit violent acts or change society to correct our current problems. Don't ask how to do this, just do it. Gun legislation will not fix any of the important problems and will only make things worse.

The solution the NRA has come up with is doing away with gun free zones, the idea is that if a shooter is afraid his victims could potentially shoot back, he might be less likely to commit the crime.

yes! let's stop gun violence by adding more guns to the mix! because it's worked out so well for us thus far!

No one said add more guns, they said don't make gun free shooting zones for criminals to have a field day with absolutely no chance of opposition.

Also, places with higher gun ownership tend to have lower gun crime rates than areas that ban firearms.
http://www.justfacts.com...

while this may be true, the problem is all the NRA cares about is making sure guns continue to be sold, so every time there is talk of gun violance their answer is "more guns" that's just as absurd as "ban certain types of guns". The NRA does not give a damn about what is constitutional or not, the more people who have guns, the more money they make. it's all profits and margins to them. to think otherwise is also absurd.

That's dodging the point. He gets you pinned on crime so you have to switch to the NRA (a debatable organization). Refute his argument, not the NRA. He didnt even mention the NRA. Even if the NRA is what you describe it to be, that's irrelevant to the gun topic. Do gun laws work? The answer is no.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 11:04:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 11:00:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
"Also, places with higher gun ownership tend to have lower gun crime rates than areas that ban firearms.
http://www.justfacts.com...;

I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but couldn't stricter gun control policies be in response to higher gun crime rates, not cause them?

The charts show murder rates both before and after stricter gun control legislation.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 11:10:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 11:04:43 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 11:00:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
"Also, places with higher gun ownership tend to have lower gun crime rates than areas that ban firearms.
http://www.justfacts.com...;

I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but couldn't stricter gun control policies be in response to higher gun crime rates, not cause them?

The charts show murder rates both before and after stricter gun control legislation.

Frankly, the charts aren't all that convincing.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 11:11:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 8:54:57 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 8:48:42 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 8:38:12 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 8:27:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 8:25:19 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
Finally someone brought up guns..lmao

yes even with gun legislation gun violence will still happen. wrong the guns were legal since his mother owned them. But again there is nothing unconstitutional about the gun legislation. the gun ban purposed would not ban anyone from owning those weapons, or even using them. The gun ban proposed is the reinstatement of the gun ban that was law from 1994-2004, which in that law it even said that prior to the gun ban any weapons purchased could be used, sold and owned. the only thing the ban actually does is limits manufacturing of any new weapons under that ban, so the ones being effected by this gun ban are the manufacturers and the NRA.

Now it is true, it does not target the issue, we need universal background checks, as well as better mental health structure, which is also being addressed as well.

I think you're a little behind on the gun legislation, Feinsteins assault weapons band was excluded from the main bill and doesn't have a chance of passing in the Senate as an amendment. In other words it's not happening.
The debate is over expanding universal background checks to include personal sales.

ah ok so you don't agree with that?

As it stands now I can find someone on Indiana gun owners forums looking to sell a gun and I can buy it from them. I'd show them my drivers license and license to carry handgun and then buy it with cash. I like that.
If the legislation passes we'll have to go find a Federal Firearm Licensed dealer and fill out paperwork, submit to a background check everytime (despite the fact that the license to carry handgun proves you've been fignerprinted, have a clear background and are registered with the local law enforcement agency) and pay their fee, every time I want to buy or trade a gun with someone, which is fairly often.
That'd be a royal pain. If you think that 'anything to save just one life' is a valid argument, then you probably wouldn't care about my inconvenience and extra costs. But in the end the tragedies being used to force this legislation through would have in no way thwarted the attacks.

so because it would be a royal pain to you, that must mean that it's going against someones rights, or unconstitutional? sorry if i have that mistaken since so far that's all i keep hearing is how unconstitutional it is. but I think it was what, around 40% of all guns purchased is not granted a background check? so lets say that I get my permit, and then something happens i lose my mind and i want to buy a gun, well now i'm nuts, "but hey i have my card, i can have a gun, whats the worst that can happen" the vast majority of this country is in favor of it, and ending Strawman purchases.

--the 40% number is a myth pushed by gun control groups. First, the reported number is 36% -- already showing an exaggeration. But the number was taken in a small 251 member survey... Twenty years ago. k, seems legit.
--ignoring the small sample and date, the study is weak. It asked respondents what they THOUGHT. Often times licensed dealers work out if their homes. It seems like a straw purchase, when the dealer actually contacted the FBI during the transaction.

The list goes on. The 40% number is bull.
http://www.nationalreview.com...

Also, you have this idea that guns have no benefit. Guns hurt people, but they make it easier for people to defend themselves. You must weigh the pros-and-cons instead of rare, stupid, hypotheticals and the idea that guns don't ever help.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Izayah003
Posts: 369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/14/2013 11:13:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 11:03:16 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 4/14/2013 10:45:17 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 10:38:30 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 10:31:27 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 10:02:01 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/14/2013 9:50:32 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
The problem is not guns, it is the violence. Either make people too scared to commit violent acts or change society to correct our current problems. Don't ask how to do this, just do it. Gun legislation will not fix any of the important problems and will only make things worse.

The solution the NRA has come up with is doing away with gun free zones, the idea is that if a shooter is afraid his victims could potentially shoot back, he might be less likely to commit the crime.

yes! let's stop gun violence by adding more guns to the mix! because it's worked out so well for us thus far!

No one said add more guns, they said don't make gun free shooting zones for criminals to have a field day with absolutely no chance of opposition.

Also, places with higher gun ownership tend to have lower gun crime rates than areas that ban firearms.
http://www.justfacts.com...

while this may be true, the problem is all the NRA cares about is making sure guns continue to be sold, so every time there is talk of gun violance their answer is "more guns" that's just as absurd as "ban certain types of guns". The NRA does not give a damn about what is constitutional or not, the more people who have guns, the more money they make. it's all profits and margins to them. to think otherwise is also absurd.

That's dodging the point. He gets you pinned on crime so you have to switch to the NRA (a debatable organization). Refute his argument, not the NRA. He didnt even mention the NRA. Even if the NRA is what you describe it to be, that's irrelevant to the gun topic. Do gun laws work? The answer is no.

No they do not work the way we would like, but it did decrease the loss of life taken in mass shootings, since the ban was lifted in 2004, the number of deaths shot up almost double. Look at any statistic that shows the number of mass shootings since 1982-2012, then add up from 94-2004, stop, then add up the number from 2004-2012 and you will see the difference. now that may seem small to you, but to those who have lost people to mass shootings, that number could have been lower should the gun ban law have been kept.

And yes i know the statistics of gun-free zones, and yes i do see the point. but to add more guns into the mix is just stupid. and also want to add for those who think this is a great saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people" that's like saying "fast food doesn't make me fat, the person who served it does"
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln