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A good argument against gun registration...

Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

I wanna hear them.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
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: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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4/18/2013 12:31:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I initially supported gun control but I am leaning more and more towards the conservative position of having guns. It would be pretty cool to have a gun with me so in case I get mugged. I can pull it out and shoot the mugger.

Do you have an argument against that?

As for gun registration, seems like a great idea. Why not? Guns should be registered and people need to have appropriate background checks and training before being allowed to buy a gun.
Oryus
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4/18/2013 12:35:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:31:00 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I initially supported gun control but I am leaning more and more towards the conservative position of having guns. It would be pretty cool to have a gun with me so in case I get mugged. I can pull it out and shoot the mugger.

Do you have an argument against that?

Um.. I'm not sure what you're asking. Do I have a good argument against citizens having guns? No. I don't think anybody has one.
As for gun registration, seems like a great idea. Why not? Guns should be registered and people need to have appropriate background checks and training before being allowed to buy a gun.

Yeah, that's kind of what I've been thinking. Generally, it sounds like a good idea in the current state of affairs politics-wise... but I'd like to hear why it shouldn't be had.

Hence mine thread stating thus. And so it is written.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/18/2013 12:36:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Inconvenience, though how much it is I don't know.
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bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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4/18/2013 12:36:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM, Oryus wrote:
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

No, it's no different from car registration.

Owning a gun doesn't harm anyone. Firing it at someone does. You cannot tell if someone is going to fire it at someone else just based on their criminal background or mental health. Therefore, you cannot deny guns to those people.

I wanna hear them.
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Oryus
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4/18/2013 12:38:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:36:46 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM, Oryus wrote:
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

No, it's no different from car registration.

How though?
Owning a gun doesn't harm anyone. Firing it at someone does. You cannot tell if someone is going to fire it at someone else just based on their criminal background or mental health. Therefore, you cannot deny guns to those people.

I wanna hear them.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
APB
Posts: 267
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4/18/2013 12:43:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM, Oryus wrote:
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

I wanna hear them.

I oppose gun registration because I will fail the background check (registration is why I don't own one now). It also makes it far easier for the police to convict me of murder.

I don't like car registration either. I don't like any sort of registration, because it's a waste of my time and it makes it harder for me to get away with crime.
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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4/18/2013 12:46:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:43:24 AM, APB wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM, Oryus wrote:
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

I wanna hear them.

I oppose gun registration because I will fail the background check (registration is why I don't own one now). It also makes it far easier for the police to convict me of murder.

I don't like car registration either. I don't like any sort of registration, because it's a waste of my time and it makes it harder for me to get away with crime.

If you buy your guns illegally, you won't have this problem.

I mean, what difference does it make if you plan on committing a crime with them anyway?
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/18/2013 12:48:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM, Oryus wrote:
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

I wanna hear them.

It is conspiritorial, I know, but if the government knows where the guns are, they know who must be neutralized first.
My work here is, finally, done.
APB
Posts: 267
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4/18/2013 12:51:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:46:36 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:43:24 AM, APB wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM, Oryus wrote:
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

I wanna hear them.

I oppose gun registration because I will fail the background check (registration is why I don't own one now). It also makes it far easier for the police to convict me of murder.

I don't like car registration either. I don't like any sort of registration, because it's a waste of my time and it makes it harder for me to get away with crime.

If you buy your guns illegally, you won't have this problem.

I mean, what difference does it make if you plan on committing a crime with them anyway?

I don't know where people get illegal guns in this country.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/18/2013 12:53:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:51:14 AM, APB wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:46:36 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:43:24 AM, APB wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM, Oryus wrote:
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

I wanna hear them.

I oppose gun registration because I will fail the background check (registration is why I don't own one now). It also makes it far easier for the police to convict me of murder.

I don't like car registration either. I don't like any sort of registration, because it's a waste of my time and it makes it harder for me to get away with crime.

If you buy your guns illegally, you won't have this problem.

I mean, what difference does it make if you plan on committing a crime with them anyway?

I don't know where people get illegal guns in this country.

Gun shows, or on the street, or steal them
My work here is, finally, done.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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4/18/2013 12:54:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:48:56 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM, Oryus wrote:
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

I wanna hear them.

It is conspiritorial, I know, but if the government knows where the guns are, they know who must be neutralized first.

haha yes.....

So the fear that if the government knows where the guns are, they'll come take the guns.... Is that a correct assessment of what you're saying?

If that is the case, wouldn't that mean that a tyrannical government is exercising power- if a government would do such a thing?

And if a tyrannical government is exercising power, then couldn't you just use your guns to overthrow them? Isn't that a large part of the purpose of citizens having guns in the first place?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/18/2013 1:01:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:54:48 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:48:56 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM, Oryus wrote:
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

I wanna hear them.

It is conspiritorial, I know, but if the government knows where the guns are, they know who must be neutralized first.

haha yes.....

So the fear that if the government knows where the guns are, they'll come take the guns.... Is that a correct assessment of what you're saying?
Not necessarily take the guns, but neutralize those with them (murder, jail, theft, etc.)

If that is the case, wouldn't that mean that a tyrannical government is exercising power- if a government would do such a thing?

And if a tyrannical government is exercising power, then couldn't you just use your guns to overthrow them? Isn't that a large part of the purpose of citizens having guns in the first place?

First, it is not necessarily what I believe, merely an answer to your question.
Second, a tyrannical government could use other means to neutrilize those with guns. For example, eminent domain, frame jobs, or drone strikes. Would they risk this? I don't know. I doubt it, but who really knows what goes on...
My work here is, finally, done.
APB
Posts: 267
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4/18/2013 1:20:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:53:37 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Gun shows, or on the street, or steal them

We don't have gun shows in my country, as the culture here is very anti-gun. I don't know where the arms dealers are. Stealing guns is impractical, as it's a legal requirement that they be kept in a safe when not in use.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/18/2013 1:22:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm all for people having guns, as long as there's some enforceable system to track where the guns go and their ballistic signatures.

I cannot fathom why someone would be against this, but apparently it's an attempt to destroy our freedom.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/18/2013 1:40:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:36:23 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Inconvenience, though how much it is I don't know.

Pretty much this. If its anything like car registration, then the whole process just sucks. Cars are cheaper then guns, so the added cost of registration of a car isn't as much compared to the added cost for registering a gun.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/18/2013 1:49:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 1:20:05 AM, APB wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:53:37 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Gun shows, or on the street, or steal them

We don't have gun shows in my country, as the culture here is very anti-gun. I don't know where the arms dealers are. Stealing guns is impractical, as it's a legal requirement that they be kept in a safe when not in use.

How am I supposed to know where you're from if you don't state your location?
My work here is, finally, done.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/18/2013 1:53:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
There's also the argument that if guns are registered it makes it easier for the government to take away your guns.

This argument isn't as insane as people make it out to be. If a certain firearm is outlawed, then its illegal to own that gun, and essence the government is taking away your gun. And certain firearms have been outlawed before so it isn't unprecedented.
Open borders debate:
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/18/2013 1:53:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 1:40:15 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:36:23 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Inconvenience, though how much it is I don't know.

Pretty much this. If its anything like car registration, then the whole process just sucks. Cars are cheaper then guns, so the added cost of registration of a car isn't as much compared to the added cost for registering a gun.

WTF?
I don't own guns, nor would I probably pass a background check for one, but how are cars cheaper than guns? Outside my first car, I have never paid less than $900 for a car, while guns are usually about $500, from what I have seen.

Are you saying the registration tax is cheaper? Are you not realizing that car registration is a yearly thing (tabs)? Is your state different than mine?
My work here is, finally, done.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/18/2013 1:55:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 1:53:29 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/18/2013 1:40:15 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:36:23 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Inconvenience, though how much it is I don't know.

Pretty much this. If its anything like car registration, then the whole process just sucks. Cars are cheaper then guns, so the added cost of registration of a car isn't as much compared to the added cost for registering a gun.

WTF?
I don't own guns, nor would I probably pass a background check for one, but how are cars cheaper than guns? Outside my first car, I have never paid less than $900 for a car, while guns are usually about $500, from what I have seen.

Are you saying the registration tax is cheaper? Are you not realizing that car registration is a yearly thing (tabs)? Is your state different than mine?

Error on my part. I meant to say the reverse, guns are cheaper then cars
Open borders debate:
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APB
Posts: 267
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4/18/2013 1:57:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 1:49:59 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/18/2013 1:20:05 AM, APB wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:53:37 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Gun shows, or on the street, or steal them

We don't have gun shows in my country, as the culture here is very anti-gun. I don't know where the arms dealers are. Stealing guns is impractical, as it's a legal requirement that they be kept in a safe when not in use.

How am I supposed to know where you're from if you don't state your location?

Oh, sorry. New Zealand.
Khaos_Mage
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4/18/2013 1:57:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 1:55:20 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/18/2013 1:53:29 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/18/2013 1:40:15 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:36:23 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Inconvenience, though how much it is I don't know.

Pretty much this. If its anything like car registration, then the whole process just sucks. Cars are cheaper then guns, so the added cost of registration of a car isn't as much compared to the added cost for registering a gun.

WTF?
I don't own guns, nor would I probably pass a background check for one, but how are cars cheaper than guns? Outside my first car, I have never paid less than $900 for a car, while guns are usually about $500, from what I have seen.

Are you saying the registration tax is cheaper? Are you not realizing that car registration is a yearly thing (tabs)? Is your state different than mine?

Error on my part. I meant to say the reverse, guns are cheaper then cars

That makes more sense.
Is gun registration a yearly thing, like tabs on a car? Or is it a one time thing?
My work here is, finally, done.
Citrakayah
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4/18/2013 3:30:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 12:48:56 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/18/2013 12:23:45 AM, Oryus wrote:
...do you have one?

Is it different from car registration? What are your beliefs about both?

I wanna hear them.

It is conspiritorial, I know, but if the government knows where the guns are, they know who must be neutralized first.

I don't think that one can really say that guns are safety against political tyranny, though. There isn't really a correlation (http://blog.foreignpolicy.com...).
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/18/2013 4:08:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Fear of confiscation is the reason.
If politicians decide in the future to do an outright assault weapons ban, it will be much easier for them to collect them all if they are all registered. Also I'm sure it would be just like car registration, extra costs. Which I think is just a by state thing, but I'm sure somehow there'd be an extra tax or fee to register your guns.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

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lewis20
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4/18/2013 4:10:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's a fear that sometime in the future Feinstein might get her 51 votes.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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4/18/2013 5:18:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
By what possible authority does the state force people to tell them what they own, and for what could they possibly do with this information? It may make it marginally easier to track criminals after a crime has been committed (although it could also provide misleading evidence if you kill someone using someone else's gun), but states everywhere have a long and ignoble history of growth and oppression. Call it paranoia, but I'd like to keep the state out of as much as possible
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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4/18/2013 5:23:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 5:18:39 PM, thett3 wrote:
By what possible authority does the state force people to tell them what they own, and for what could they possibly do with this information? It may make it marginally easier to track criminals after a crime has been committed (although it could also provide misleading evidence if you kill someone using someone else's gun), but states everywhere have a long and ignoble history of growth and oppression. Call it paranoia, but I'd like to keep the state out of as much as possible

And saying it's like car registration isn't a good argument because 1. It presumes car registration is good to begin with and 2. Roads are state owned, and while they may have acquired that property illegitimately I still don't have too much of a problem with some entity requiring some sort of registry before using their products (roads).
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/18/2013 5:23:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 5:18:39 PM, thett3 wrote:
By what possible authority does the state force people to tell them what they own, and for what could they possibly do with this information?
It is not an inherent problem with the state -- just the welfare state. A free society will be free from dictatorship because the individual is deemed an individual, and rightfully so. The consequences of what he eats will be marked on his own bills. Not so much in a welfare state. Got obese? There's the government to take care of you. And since it takes care of you, why not regulate your life as much as possible?
thett3
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4/18/2013 5:25:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 5:23:50 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/18/2013 5:18:39 PM, thett3 wrote:
By what possible authority does the state force people to tell them what they own, and for what could they possibly do with this information?
It is not an inherent problem with the state -- just the welfare state. A free society will be free from dictatorship because the individual is deemed an individual, and rightfully so. The consequences of what he eats will be marked on his own bills. Not so much in a welfare state. Got obese? There's the government to take care of you. And since it takes care of you, why not regulate your life as much as possible?

yeah, that's true. It's kind of scary how people dont take issue with relying on the state
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
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4/18/2013 5:41:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/18/2013 5:25:34 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/18/2013 5:23:50 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/18/2013 5:18:39 PM, thett3 wrote:
By what possible authority does the state force people to tell them what they own, and for what could they possibly do with this information?
It is not an inherent problem with the state -- just the welfare state. A free society will be free from dictatorship because the individual is deemed an individual, and rightfully so. The consequences of what he eats will be marked on his own bills. Not so much in a welfare state. Got obese? There's the government to take care of you. And since it takes care of you, why not regulate your life as much as possible?

yeah, that's true. It's kind of scary how people dont take issue with relying on the state

If we're going to be honest here, we should accept the capriciousness of everything and abandon the talk of "authority and rights and evil" and present our arguments for what they really are: "I like" and "I don't like".
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault