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Fighting the jihadists

DoubtingDave
Posts: 380
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4/25/2013 6:47:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
From last night's talking points:



It is now becoming clear that the Homeland Security Department let all Americans down by not flagging the slain terrorist Tamerlan Tsarnaev. When Russian intelligence alerts American Homeland Security people about an individual, you mark that individual forever.

The Russians are busy. They don't have time for small ball. The fact that this guy was selected for scrutiny by Russian intelligence is huge. And then he travels from the USA to Russia, returning six months later and U.S. intelligence doesn't watch him? What a massive screw up. Massive!

In addition, the guy was posting jihad garbage on the Internet. And still, he was not being watched. We simply can't have it. That's a mistake that cost four people their lives and more than 200 others their health. We cannot afford mistakes like that.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com...

I think O'Reilly hit the nail on the head. We got to give the FBI credit for solving the crime and getting them off the streets within five days, though we should still wonder what went wrong.

Also, the survivor is being tried as a civilian. I believe this is a terrible mistake. He should be tried for treason against the United States as a terrorist/enemy combatant.

On a final note, MOST MUSLIMS ARE PEACEFUL. We should NOT categorize all Muslims as terrorists because of what happened on 9/11 or Boston. What we need to be weary of is radical Islam. Be careful not to make the association fallacy.
The Great Wall of Fail

"I have doubts that anti-semitism even exists" -GeoLaureate8

"Evolutionists think that people evolved from rocks" -Scotty

"And whats so bad about a Holy war? By Holy war, I mean a war which would aim to subdue others under Islam." -Ahmed.M

"The free market didn't create the massive wealth in the country, WW2 did." -malcomxy

"Independant federal regulators make our capitalist society possible." -Erik_Erikson
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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4/25/2013 7:32:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 6:47:20 AM, DoubtingDave wrote:
From last night's talking points:



It is now becoming clear that the Homeland Security Department let all Americans down by not flagging the slain terrorist Tamerlan Tsarnaev. When Russian intelligence alerts American Homeland Security people about an individual, you mark that individual forever.


The Russians are busy. They don't have time for small ball. The fact that this guy was selected for scrutiny by Russian intelligence is huge. And then he travels from the USA to Russia, returning six months later and U.S. intelligence doesn't watch him? What a massive screw up. Massive!

In addition, the guy was posting jihad garbage on the Internet. And still, he was not being watched. We simply can't have it. That's a mistake that cost four people their lives and more than 200 others their health. We cannot afford mistakes like that.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com...

I think O'Reilly hit the nail on the head. We got to give the FBI credit for solving the crime and getting them off the streets within five days, though we should still wonder what went wrong.

Also, the survivor is being tried as a civilian. I believe this is a terrible mistake. He should be tried for treason against the United States as a terrorist/enemy combatant.

On a final note, MOST MUSLIMS ARE PEACEFUL. We should NOT categorize all Muslims as terrorists because of what happened on 9/11 or Boston. What we need to be weary of is radical Islam. Be careful not to make the association fallacy.

Prosectors wanted him to be tried in civilian court so that they can seek death penalty. Besides, many high profile terrorists were tried in civilian courts, although no specific reasons were given. (continue the pattern)
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/25/2013 8:03:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I love how Ann Coulter said that the wife should be imprisoned for wearing a hijab.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DoubtingDave
Posts: 380
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4/25/2013 10:07:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 8:03:00 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
I love how Ann Coulter said that the wife should be imprisoned for wearing a hijab.

LOL. I hate Ann Coulter - she is dispicable. Her wife should be imprisoned for wearing clothes that she wants to wear? WTF is wrong with her!
The Great Wall of Fail

"I have doubts that anti-semitism even exists" -GeoLaureate8

"Evolutionists think that people evolved from rocks" -Scotty

"And whats so bad about a Holy war? By Holy war, I mean a war which would aim to subdue others under Islam." -Ahmed.M

"The free market didn't create the massive wealth in the country, WW2 did." -malcomxy

"Independant federal regulators make our capitalist society possible." -Erik_Erikson
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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4/25/2013 10:24:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 6:47:20 AM, DoubtingDave wrote:
Also, the survivor is being tried as a civilian.

Because he is one.

I believe this is a terrible mistake. He should be tried for treason against the United States as a terrorist/enemy combatant.

On what grounds could he reasonably be considered an enemy combatant that wouldn't also apply to any other criminal. People who think like you are what's wrong with the world.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Anti-atheist
Posts: 213
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4/25/2013 10:41:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
A Christian would never do something like this, they all been muslims!
Anti-atheist

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DoubtingDave
Posts: 380
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4/25/2013 11:33:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 10:41:48 AM, Anti-atheist wrote:
A Christian would never do something like this, they all been muslims!

This is why I love you, Anti-Atheist. You made my day.
The Great Wall of Fail

"I have doubts that anti-semitism even exists" -GeoLaureate8

"Evolutionists think that people evolved from rocks" -Scotty

"And whats so bad about a Holy war? By Holy war, I mean a war which would aim to subdue others under Islam." -Ahmed.M

"The free market didn't create the massive wealth in the country, WW2 did." -malcomxy

"Independant federal regulators make our capitalist society possible." -Erik_Erikson
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/25/2013 11:34:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 6:47:20 AM, DoubtingDave wrote:
Also, the survivor is being tried as a civilian. I believe this is a terrible mistake. He should be tried for treason against the United States as a terrorist/enemy combatant.

I know, if only we'd send him to Abu Ghraib, because killing him isn't going to be enough.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Mustachero
Posts: 84
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4/25/2013 12:01:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 11:34:27 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/25/2013 6:47:20 AM, DoubtingDave wrote:
Also, the survivor is being tried as a civilian. I believe this is a terrible mistake. He should be tried for treason against the United States as a terrorist/enemy combatant.

I know, if only we'd send him to Abu Ghraib, because killing him isn't going to be enough.

Hopefully they abuse him like they did last time. Why should the type of crime affect how well you are treated? As long as the crime is commited on American Soil, I do believe that all their rights should be upheld.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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4/25/2013 2:00:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 6:47:20 AM, DoubtingDave wrote:
Also, the survivor is being tried as a civilian. I believe this is a terrible mistake. He should be tried for treason against the United States as a terrorist/enemy combatant.
Surely this is up for the prosecution to decide; if the charges brought against him are significant enough him to be tried federally as a terrorist then I'm sure they would attempt to do so.

I'm fairly sure domestic terrorists are usually tried as civilians in criminal courts anyway.

At 4/25/2013 10:41:48 AM, Anti-atheist wrote:
A Christian would never do something like this, they all been muslims!
Well, the only global religious terrorist movement of the 21st Century is Sunni Islamism.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/25/2013 2:11:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Seriously, what the heck was the FBI supposed to do?

Stop an american citizen from entering the country because they had evidence that the geographical region the citizen visited is also inhabited by certain jihadist groups?

You think the "no-fly" list was bad? The way people are talking, we'll have a "no-come-back-in-country list" which gets triggered if you visit the wrong region.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/25/2013 2:14:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I really wish I could force people into a FBI or CIA intelligence analysts room, show them the mountains of information, names, dates, possiblities, leads, all which have be tracked down, and then yell at them when it turns out one of 100 names in boston that got tagged does an attack.

Signal analysis is quite easy in retrospect.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/25/2013 2:25:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If it means keeping us safe without losing our civil liberties I really have no problem with not allowing immigrants from countries known to harbor terrorists.
I'd prefer the FBI, CIA etc. do their jobs to the best of their ability and we take the few inevitable attacks on the chin,
but if we as a country insist something has to be done for the sake of doing something, I'd prefer we simply adopt a xenophobic immigration policy with certain countries, rather than continue things like our drone policy which I believe hurts more than it helps.
Long story short I'd prefer a 'xenophobic' immigration policy to signature strikes in Yemen.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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4/25/2013 2:41:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 2:25:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
If it means keeping us safe without losing our civil liberties I really have no problem with not allowing immigrants from countries known to harbor terrorists.
I'd prefer the FBI, CIA etc. do their jobs to the best of their ability and we take the few inevitable attacks on the chin,
but if we as a country insist something has to be done for the sake of doing something, I'd prefer we simply adopt a xenophobic immigration policy with certain countries, rather than continue things like our drone policy which I believe hurts more than it helps.
Long story short I'd prefer a 'xenophobic' immigration policy to signature strikes in Yemen.
But Dagestan/Chechnya isn't a country. Somalia doesn't harbor terrorists but the Somali Emirate, which de facto controls 30% of the area Somalia claims, does. Should we block all flights from Iran?

So many flaws.

Also, for the sake of argument if the only problem with asylum was terrorism the peaceful subjects of that country lose out peace of our suspicions. Also, the Boston bombers were 'radicalised' after long term residency; immigration wouldn't change a thing in regards to 'homegrown' or 'holiday' terrorism.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/25/2013 2:43:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 2:25:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
If it means keeping us safe without losing our civil liberties I really have no problem with not allowing immigrants from countries known to harbor terrorists.
I'd prefer the FBI, CIA etc. do their jobs to the best of their ability and we take the few inevitable attacks on the chin,
but if we as a country insist something has to be done for the sake of doing something, I'd prefer we simply adopt a xenophobic immigration policy with certain countries, rather than continue things like our drone policy which I believe hurts more than it helps.
Long story short I'd prefer a 'xenophobic' immigration policy to signature strikes in Yemen.

Um....the bros were American citizens a long time ago. The "flag" from Russia came during a six month trip.

The kids were born in the middle of a Chechnyan warzone to parents involved in the separatist movement. Of course Russia would keep tabs on them.

The Chechnyan movement wasn't even related to jihadism until they made a rhetorical move in alliance with al-qaeda and others to access millions of dollars in funds.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/25/2013 2:46:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 2:43:27 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/25/2013 2:25:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
If it means keeping us safe without losing our civil liberties I really have no problem with not allowing immigrants from countries known to harbor terrorists.
I'd prefer the FBI, CIA etc. do their jobs to the best of their ability and we take the few inevitable attacks on the chin,
but if we as a country insist something has to be done for the sake of doing something, I'd prefer we simply adopt a xenophobic immigration policy with certain countries, rather than continue things like our drone policy which I believe hurts more than it helps.
Long story short I'd prefer a 'xenophobic' immigration policy to signature strikes in Yemen.

Um....the bros were American citizens a long time ago. The "flag" from Russia came during a six month trip.

The kids were born in the middle of a Chechnyan warzone to parents involved in the separatist movement. Of course Russia would keep tabs on them.

The Chechnyan movement wasn't even related to jihadism until they made a rhetorical move in alliance with al-qaeda and others to access millions of dollars in funds.

I'm pretty sure the Chechnyan Separatists are pissed as all hell at those Bros. They've singlehandedly destroyed any rhetorical distinction between the "American-hating jihadists" and the Chechnyan separatist movement.

Granted, they didn't exactly have our goodwill before it, but it was more of a "one of those rebel groups we don't like but at least they kill other people." Now it's a "one of those rebel groups we don't like and they'retrying to kill us."
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/25/2013 2:48:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 2:41:08 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 4/25/2013 2:25:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
If it means keeping us safe without losing our civil liberties I really have no problem with not allowing immigrants from countries known to harbor terrorists.
I'd prefer the FBI, CIA etc. do their jobs to the best of their ability and we take the few inevitable attacks on the chin,
but if we as a country insist something has to be done for the sake of doing something, I'd prefer we simply adopt a xenophobic immigration policy with certain countries, rather than continue things like our drone policy which I believe hurts more than it helps.
Long story short I'd prefer a 'xenophobic' immigration policy to signature strikes in Yemen.
But Dagestan/Chechnya isn't a country. Somalia doesn't harbor terrorists but the Somali Emirate, which de facto controls 30% of the area Somalia claims, does. Should we block all flights from Iran?

So many flaws.

Also, for the sake of argument if the only problem with asylum was terrorism the peaceful subjects of that country lose out peace of our suspicions. Also, the Boston bombers were 'radicalised' after long term residency; immigration wouldn't change a thing in regards to 'homegrown' or 'holiday' terrorism.

Apparently you didn't read what I said, I'm not for it but when the country insists something be done for the sake of doing something, I'd prefer Bob Beckels proposal to a new Patriot act, or any legislation that further degrades American liberties.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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4/25/2013 3:28:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 2:48:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
If know you presented it as an alternative, if anything, policy. The point is insisting on policy regardless of it's counter-intuitivity. The reactionary belief that something has to be done for the sake of appearing to do something must be eliminated from politics. It's a product of party democracy and it's utter BS.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/25/2013 3:53:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 3:28:38 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 4/25/2013 2:48:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
If know you presented it as an alternative, if anything, policy. The point is insisting on policy regardless of it's counter-intuitivity. The reactionary belief that something has to be done for the sake of appearing to do something must be eliminated from politics. It's a product of party democracy and it's utter BS.

All that's well and good but it doesn't change the reality of the country we live in. Everyone insists something be done. After Newtown, it was a completely unrelated gun bill. After 911, it was Patriot act, despite there already being more that sufficient means to have stopped the terrorists. People insist on doing something for the sake of doing something, I'm putting forward the least harmful of actions.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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4/25/2013 4:47:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 10:41:48 AM, Anti-atheist wrote:
A Christian would never do something like this, they all been muslims!

http://en.wikipedia.org...
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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4/25/2013 4:54:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 3:53:43 PM, lewis20 wrote:
All that's well and good but it doesn't change the reality of the country we live in. Everyone insists something be done. After Newtown, it was a completely unrelated gun bill. After 911, it was Patriot act, despite there already being more that sufficient means to have stopped the terrorists. People insist on doing something for the sake of doing something, I'm putting forward the least harmful of actions.
Curse of our time. I respect your sentiment.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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4/25/2013 5:34:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 2:43:27 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/25/2013 2:25:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
If it means keeping us safe without losing our civil liberties I really have no problem with not allowing immigrants from countries known to harbor terrorists.
I'd prefer the FBI, CIA etc. do their jobs to the best of their ability and we take the few inevitable attacks on the chin,
but if we as a country insist something has to be done for the sake of doing something, I'd prefer we simply adopt a xenophobic immigration policy with certain countries, rather than continue things like our drone policy which I believe hurts more than it helps.
Long story short I'd prefer a 'xenophobic' immigration policy to signature strikes in Yemen.

Um....the bros were American citizens a long time ago. The "flag" from Russia came during a six month trip.

I thought that the older one never became a citizen, he tried once, but was rejected. &The younger one only became a citizen less than a year ago.

The kids were born in the middle of a Chechnyan warzone to parents involved in the separatist movement. Of course Russia would keep tabs on them.

The Chechnyan movement wasn't even related to jihadism until they made a rhetorical move in alliance with al-qaeda and others to access millions of dollars in funds.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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4/26/2013 10:16:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 10:41:48 AM, Anti-atheist wrote:
A Christian would never do something like this, they all been muslims!

retard alert
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
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imabench
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4/26/2013 10:16:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 12:06:41 AM, jimtimmy2 wrote:
Most Muslims are peaceful in the same way that most Nazis were peaceful...

retard alert number 2
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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4/26/2013 12:28:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 4:47:12 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 4/25/2013 10:41:48 AM, Anti-atheist wrote:
A Christian would never do something like this, they all been muslims!

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"The manifesto states its author is "100 percent Christian",[3] but he is not "excessively religious"[3] and considers himself a "cultural Christian" and a "modern-day crusader".[2][3] His manifesto states "I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person, as that would be a lie", calls religion a crutch and a source for drawing mental strength, and says "I've always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment." Regarding the term cultural Christian, which he says means preserving European culture, he notes, "It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy...)"[2][184] Furthermore, Breivik stated that "myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God."[2][194] Nevertheless, he stated that he planned to pray to God seeking for his help during his attacks.[195]"