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Ron Paul: I Am Not An Anarcho-Capitalist

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/26/2013 1:27:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Anarcho means Anarchist and they essentially would have no government. All government would be private. I haven't gotten to that point yet.
...
I don't accept that, but I'll certainly accept the minimalist approach to government with the sole purpose of protecting liberty, property, and contract.
...
I am not an Anarcho-Capitalist."

Ron Paul
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/26/2013 1:36:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not that I care what Ron Paul believes at this point. Libertarianism is about principle, and does not have leaders. Ron Paul has done a magnificent job of spreading the word to people, but that comes at a cost: he has to appear slightly more centrist.
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Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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4/26/2013 1:48:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I have to agree with Wallstreet- Ron Paul is an An-cap. And I think Rand Paul is, too. Both of them will fade away like the America First party did once the war weariness starts wearing off and the financial crisis dies down, whittling away their fanbases. Rand Paul might take longer because he purports to be Republican, but I doubt he'll do it forever.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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4/26/2013 12:59:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think the video posted only shows that Ron Paul is unconsciously an anarchist or would be an anarchist if he logically extended his political principles. I genuinely don't think he thinks he's one though.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Eitan_Zohar
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4/26/2013 1:09:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 12:59:33 PM, Noumena wrote:
I think the video posted only shows that Ron Paul is unconsciously an anarchist or would be an anarchist if he logically extended his political principles. I genuinely don't think he thinks he's one though.

He is. I know.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/26/2013 2:32:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 1:36:05 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Not that I care what Ron Paul believes at this point. Libertarianism is about principle, and does not have leaders. Ron Paul has done a magnificent job of spreading the word to people, but that comes at a cost: he has to appear slightly more centrist.

Whenever I say we should legalize all drugs, people don't think I'm centrist.

Rand Paul hopefully is the future of the GOP.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
YYW
Posts: 36,286
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4/26/2013 2:55:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 2:32:17 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 1:36:05 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Not that I care what Ron Paul believes at this point. Libertarianism is about principle, and does not have leaders. Ron Paul has done a magnificent job of spreading the word to people, but that comes at a cost: he has to appear slightly more centrist.

Whenever I say we should legalize all drugs, people don't think I'm centrist.

Rand Paul hopefully is the future of the GOP.

When parties experience an enduring period of loss (which the GOP has) they try to restructure themselves in a way that broadens their appeal to generate a higher likelihood of electoral successes. Parties are incredibly resilient, when they are as entrenched as the GOP is. I think its possible that Rand Paul might have a future in the GOP, but not likely -though only because even though he is more of a "team player" than his father, he continues to be abrasive to the power structure that actually controls the GOP.

The problem is that the GOP has focused on licking its wounds more than leading the country, and their actions (like killing gun control legislation) are alienating to a majority of Americans. Right now, the NRA has a tremendous amount of control in the GOP but that will change in time as the present generation of Republicans fade into nonexistence. The reason for that change will come when a new generation of republicans becomes politically active, which will probably happen about 2020; at which time authentic libertarians (like Gary Johnson) rather than the Paul family will enjoy a much higher degree of electoral prominence.

Libertarianism is the future of the GOP, but that won't come without a struggle. There are, especially in the American south, a tremendous number of very socially conservative republicans who will vote on social issues and will presumably continue to do so for the rest of their lives. They are the legacy of Barry Goldwater's homogenizing economic and social conservatism into a driving force that eclipsed the more moderate conservatism which preceded it, and just as Rockefeller republicanism began to fade in 1964, so will neoconservatism give way to libertarian conservatism in the coming decades.

Really, Bush -even though I love the man- was instrumental in this shift because of what happened after 9/11 and because of the popular understanding of what caused the crisis in 2008. Then, in 2012 when far-right zealots (like Santorum and Aiken) made headlines throughout the primary process by resurrecting social-issue debates not argued in the arena of American political discourse since the 1960s and 70s, a new generation of Republicans witnessed the implications of social conservatism and formed a judgement of it. The ongoing social division about gay marriage only exacerbated this issue. The "moral majority" type republican is going to become a thing silenced, and relegated to the past. That is because the value structure of the majority of young "conservatives" is fundamentally different from that of their parents, but that's nothing new. All generations seek to form their own identity by distinguishing themselves from the present; that is the bedrock of what people believe it means to be "independent."

Granted, I could be wrong but I don't think I am. Change over time is a complicated thing and doesn't fit into a clean narrative, but the signs of shifting tides are there and their force is growing. In some ways it gives me hope, because social issues will become more a thing we can all agree to disagree about, but at the same time real economic debates about the role of government will return to prominence. Socioculturally, the United States will appear to be as liberal as it has ever been, but economically, it will be the libertarian-model v. the social welfare model.
Tsar of DDO
1Percenter
Posts: 781
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4/26/2013 2:58:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 1:09:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 4/26/2013 12:59:33 PM, Noumena wrote:
I think the video posted only shows that Ron Paul is unconsciously an anarchist or would be an anarchist if he logically extended his political principles. I genuinely don't think he thinks he's one though.

He is. I know.
Uh-huh. How can he be a politician and an anarchist at the same time? What exactly is an "anarchist policy"? It's an oxymoron.

The fact that Ron Paul has supported and sponsored hundreds of bills throughout his career as a legislator proves he is NOT an anarchist, as you allege.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/26/2013 4:12:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 1:27:17 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"Anarcho means Anarchist and they essentially would have no government. All government would be private. I haven't gotten to that point yet.
...
I don't accept that, but I'll certainly accept the minimalist approach to government with the sole purpose of protecting liberty, property, and contract.
...
I am not an Anarcho-Capitalist."

Ron Paul



So....no one else get automatically raised eyebrows at the bolded?

Not actually a denunciation.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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4/26/2013 4:26:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 4:12:05 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/26/2013 1:27:17 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"Anarcho means Anarchist and they essentially would have no government. All government would be private. I haven't gotten to that point yet.
...
I don't accept that, but I'll certainly accept the minimalist approach to government with the sole purpose of protecting liberty, property, and contract.
...
I am not an Anarcho-Capitalist."

Ron Paul



So....no one else get automatically raised eyebrows at the bolded?

Not actually a denunciation.

Plus there's no practical difference between a private government and what anarcho-capitalists advocate.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/26/2013 4:46:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You can't be a Constitutional crusader and praise the Founders while being an Anarchist. Anarchists think that Thomas Jefferson is rotten statist. Ron Paul praises Thomas Jefferson.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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4/26/2013 4:53:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 4:46:34 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You can't be a Constitutional crusader and praise the Founders while being an Anarchist. Anarchists think that Thomas Jefferson is rotten statist. Ron Paul praises Thomas Jefferson.

Ron Paul also says he doesn't believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy. Your beliefs are refuted!
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/26/2013 6:07:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think that you are right YYW. But I have no hope for third parties.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/26/2013 9:22:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ron Paul: I am not an Anarcho-Capitalist.

DDO: Yes you are.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
lewis20
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4/26/2013 9:48:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not that hard to believe he's not an ancap is it? He thinks the Constitution is the perfect balance of power.
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Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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4/27/2013 12:34:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 9:22:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ron Paul: I am not an Anarcho-Capitalist.

DDO: Yes you are.

Why do we have the slightest incentive to believe Ron Paul? He's no idiot, he likely knows that anarchy is the logical extension of his beliefs. And, of course, there's the fact that he would have had literally zero support from anybody, anywhere, if he went right out and said that the entire gubmint is thieves. He prefers to preach his garbage to the uneducated masses and hopes that they'll come to the conclusion of no government.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/27/2013 1:37:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2013 12:34:29 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Why do we have the slightest incentive to believe Ron Paul? He's no idiot, he likely knows that anarchy is the logical extension of his beliefs. And, of course, there's the fact that he would have had literally zero support from anybody, anywhere, if he went right out and said that the entire gubmint is thieves. He prefers to preach his garbage to the uneducated masses and hopes that they'll come to the conclusion of no government.

Ron Paul probably supports what Thomas Paine noted.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
-- Thomas Paine
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Aned
Posts: 53
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4/27/2013 4:25:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ron Paul is an honest politician and a great American. He had no other choice than align himself with republicans due to the democrat-republican monopoly in Congress.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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4/27/2013 11:52:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 4:46:34 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You can't be a Constitutional crusader and praise the Founders while being an Anarchist. Anarchists think that Thomas Jefferson is rotten statist. Ron Paul praises Thomas Jefferson.

Didn't I already explain to you why anarchists don't think this?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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4/29/2013 10:30:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 4:46:34 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You can't be a Constitutional crusader and praise the Founders while being an Anarchist. Anarchists think that Thomas Jefferson is rotten statist. Ron Paul praises Thomas Jefferson.

Ron Paul said in his 1988 presidential run that Reagan was a failure. In his 2012 presidential run, he touted Reagan's support of his congressional bid. In the 90s he ran or wrote a paper that belittled gays, blacks, and Jews, and he defended it in his congressional run. In the 00s, when the papers were public again, he denied everything.

To be quite frank, Ron Paul is not a 'Constitutional crusader'. He is a politician, and like most politicians he has a tendency to lie.
YYW
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4/29/2013 10:34:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 6:07:02 PM, Contra wrote:
I think that you are right YYW. But I have no hope for third parties.

It's a collective action problem, but there is space for third parties as the GOP continues to wane.
Tsar of DDO