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Fair Tax

Cowboy0108
Posts: 420
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4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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4/26/2013 12:56:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A 23% sales tax? You do realize that sales taxes disproportionately fall on the poor, right? Let me just show an example:

Family A makes $15,000 a year and Family B makes $300,000 a year. Groceries for a year costs about $10,000. $2500 is used to pay bills for Family A, and $7500 for Family B. Family B makes about $8000 of luxury purchases per year, and spends the rest on investments.

With 23% sales tax:
Family A:
$10,000 of purchases + 23% tax = $12,300
$2,500 of bills
Total: $14,800 ($200 leftover)
Taxes paid: $2,300 (equivalent to 15.3% income tax)

Family B:
$10,000 of purchases + 23% tax = $12,300
$7,500 of bills (Total so far: $19,800)
$8,000 of luxury purchases + 23% tax = $9,840
Total: $27,340 before investments use the rest
Taxes paid: $4,140 (equivalent to 1.4% income tax)

This is before the deduction, of course. However, you must acknowledge that the top 1.3% income earners (typically making $400,000 or more per year) have about 20% of the combined annual income of the whole country. The bottom half's combined annual income also makes up 20%. What this does is it shifts a large amount of this tax burden down where it isn't needed.
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/26/2013 1:00:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's [government] revenue,

Why is that a good thing? As soon as they get more money, they use more, and spend more. More money to grow the police state, fund wars, and build up pernicious bureaucracies.

decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

I choose to pay 0%, as is the only moral way. I own myself, and no one has a higher claim on me, my liberty, or the product of my labor than I do.
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Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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4/26/2013 1:08:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 1:00:35 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
I choose to pay 0%, as is the only moral way. I own myself, and no one has a higher claim on me, my liberty, or the product of my labor than I do.

Why not? (That's not intended facetiously, for the record, it's a sincere question.)
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lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/26/2013 1:14:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 12:56:51 PM, drhead wrote:
A 23% sales tax? You do realize that sales taxes disproportionately fall on the poor, right? Let me just show an example:

Family A makes $15,000 a year and Family B makes $300,000 a year. Groceries for a year costs about $10,000. $2500 is used to pay bills for Family A, and $7500 for Family B. Family B makes about $8000 of luxury purchases per year, and spends the rest on investments.

With 23% sales tax:
Family A:
$10,000 of purchases + 23% tax = $12,300
$2,500 of bills
Total: $14,800 ($200 leftover)
Taxes paid: $2,300 (equivalent to 15.3% income tax)

Family B:
$10,000 of purchases + 23% tax = $12,300
$7,500 of bills (Total so far: $19,800)
$8,000 of luxury purchases + 23% tax = $9,840
Total: $27,340 before investments use the rest
Taxes paid: $4,140 (equivalent to 1.4% income tax)

This is before the deduction, of course. However, you must acknowledge that the top 1.3% income earners (typically making $400,000 or more per year) have about 20% of the combined annual income of the whole country. The bottom half's combined annual income also makes up 20%. What this does is it shifts a large amount of this tax burden down where it isn't needed.

I believe there is a prebate system where people below the poverty line don't end up paying any in taxes.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,333
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4/26/2013 1:25:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 12:56:51 PM, drhead wrote:
A 23% sales tax? You do realize that sales taxes disproportionately fall on the poor, right? Let me just show an example:

Family A makes $15,000 a year and Family B makes $300,000 a year. Groceries for a year costs about $10,000.....

holy food batman, about 1000 dollars of groceries per month? at 3 dollars a meal that's 300 meals per month... not to mention Obamastamps program gives around 200 dollars per person per month.... the poor don't spend nearly as much out of pocket as your heart bleeds.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.
http://www.fairtax.org...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/26/2013 2:42:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.
http://www.fairtax.org...

Okay that's better than I thought. There are other objections though that I have.

The 23% rate is too high.

How would this policy be carried out? Would families fill out a tax form and their expenditures, then pay a 23% tax on all consumption?

The tax would apply to all of those who are unable to vote.

Steep hikes in the price of gasoline. I know that the existing taxes on gasoline would be repealed though, so there's a bonus.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/26/2013 4:07:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 2:42:04 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.

I don't think it's that high, but the idea is that the poor pay nothing in taxes, based on poverty lines.
For example, poverty lines is $20K and tax is 23%.
Every house in America (or every American, not sure how children work on this plan) would recieve a check for $383/month.
This way, if you were at the poverty line, this check would cover all your taxes to be paid on your income ($20K x 23% = $4,600). If you were below the poverty line, you would get free money (like the current EIC).
http://www.fairtax.org...

Okay that's better than I thought. There are other objections though that I have.

The 23% rate is too high.

How would this policy be carried out? Would families fill out a tax form and their expenditures, then pay a 23% tax on all consumption?

To my understanding, businesses collect the tax at point of sale. It is no different than sales or excise taxes. So, a TV that costs $1,000 would cost about $1,300 due to state sales and the fair (federal sales) taxes.:

Families fill out nothing, as there is no voluntary aspect to it (except on the businesses for paying it, I suppose). The pre-bate, as it is known, would be sent by the government to every home in America every month. It is enough to cover the taxes based on the poverty rate. I do not know how it works for families, if the children get their own check or what.
The tax would apply to all of those who are unable to vote.
Sales taxes, and even income taxes, already do. It is not a valid point.

Steep hikes in the price of gasoline. I know that the existing taxes on gasoline would be repealed though, so there's a bonus.
The gas tax is about 50 cents, so a 23% tax would actually be less in taxes, if the excise tax is repealed.
My work here is, finally, done.
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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4/26/2013 5:06:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

How is that mathematically possible?
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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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4/26/2013 5:10:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.
http://www.fairtax.org...

I dont understand, isnt the fairtax just a sales tax? If this is the case (I could be wrong) how on Earth does one tell if a family makes under 31k when they go buy something at Costco or whatever?
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/26/2013 5:14:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 5:10:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.
http://www.fairtax.org...

I dont understand, isnt the fairtax just a sales tax? If this is the case (I could be wrong) how on Earth does one tell if a family makes under 31k when they go buy something at Costco or whatever?

Govt prebates them 7k or whatever a year, then they pay the tax
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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4/26/2013 5:15:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 5:14:39 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:10:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.
http://www.fairtax.org...

I dont understand, isnt the fairtax just a sales tax? If this is the case (I could be wrong) how on Earth does one tell if a family makes under 31k when they go buy something at Costco or whatever?

Govt prebates them 7k or whatever a year, then they pay the tax

Can you elaborate exactly on what you mean? I am utterly uneducated here
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/26/2013 5:20:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 5:15:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:14:39 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:10:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.
http://www.fairtax.org...

I dont understand, isnt the fairtax just a sales tax? If this is the case (I could be wrong) how on Earth does one tell if a family makes under 31k when they go buy something at Costco or whatever?

Govt prebates them 7k or whatever a year, then they pay the tax

Can you elaborate exactly on what you mean? I am utterly uneducated here

They'll get a tax refund check at the beginning of each month for 23% of what they will earn? Earned the previous month maybe? Not sure exactly but up to 7k, the graph shows in better detail. the jist of it is that instead of a rebate after they paid the tax they'll get a pre bate before they pay it.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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4/26/2013 5:25:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 5:20:13 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:15:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:14:39 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:10:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.
http://www.fairtax.org...

I dont understand, isnt the fairtax just a sales tax? If this is the case (I could be wrong) how on Earth does one tell if a family makes under 31k when they go buy something at Costco or whatever?

Govt prebates them 7k or whatever a year, then they pay the tax

Can you elaborate exactly on what you mean? I am utterly uneducated here

They'll get a tax refund check at the beginning of each month for 23% of what they will earn? Earned the previous month maybe? Not sure exactly but up to 7k, the graph shows in better detail. the jist of it is that instead of a rebate after they paid the tax they'll get a pre bate before they pay it.

But how on Earth does the government know what their income will be before the year ends?
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/26/2013 5:29:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 5:25:01 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:20:13 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:15:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:14:39 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:10:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.
http://www.fairtax.org...

I dont understand, isnt the fairtax just a sales tax? If this is the case (I could be wrong) how on Earth does one tell if a family makes under 31k when they go buy something at Costco or whatever?

Govt prebates them 7k or whatever a year, then they pay the tax

Can you elaborate exactly on what you mean? I am utterly uneducated here

They'll get a tax refund check at the beginning of each month for 23% of what they will earn? Earned the previous month maybe? Not sure exactly but up to 7k, the graph shows in better detail. the jist of it is that instead of a rebate after they paid the tax they'll get a pre bate before they pay it.

But how on Earth does the government know what their income will be before the year ends?

I was wrong, everyone gets the same amount, 7k a year.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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4/26/2013 5:30:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 5:29:07 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:25:01 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:20:13 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:15:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:14:39 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:10:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.
http://www.fairtax.org...

I dont understand, isnt the fairtax just a sales tax? If this is the case (I could be wrong) how on Earth does one tell if a family makes under 31k when they go buy something at Costco or whatever?

Govt prebates them 7k or whatever a year, then they pay the tax

Can you elaborate exactly on what you mean? I am utterly uneducated here

They'll get a tax refund check at the beginning of each month for 23% of what they will earn? Earned the previous month maybe? Not sure exactly but up to 7k, the graph shows in better detail. the jist of it is that instead of a rebate after they paid the tax they'll get a pre bate before they pay it.

But how on Earth does the government know what their income will be before the year ends?

I was wrong, everyone gets the same amount, 7k a year.

ohhh ok
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/26/2013 5:31:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
7k a year For a family of 4, if they don't earn any money they just get 7k.
If they earn 31k, the 7k they are prebated works out to 23%. Then above 31k the 7k just goes to lowering their effective tax rate.
http://www.fairtax.org...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/26/2013 6:05:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 5:31:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
7k a year For a family of 4, if they don't earn any money they just get 7k.
If they earn 31k, the 7k they are prebated works out to 23%. Then above 31k the 7k just goes to lowering their effective tax rate.
http://www.fairtax.org...

So it's redistribution I see.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/26/2013 6:14:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 6:05:03 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:31:40 PM, lewis20 wrote:
7k a year For a family of 4, if they don't earn any money they just get 7k.
If they earn 31k, the 7k they are prebated works out to 23%. Then above 31k the 7k just goes to lowering their effective tax rate.
http://www.fairtax.org...

So it's redistribution I see.

Our government redistributes? and will continue to redistribute? Say it aint so
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

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Cowboy0108
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4/26/2013 7:01:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 5:30:17 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:29:07 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:25:01 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:20:13 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:15:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:14:39 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 5:10:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:35:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 2:29:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/26/2013 10:39:45 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
FairTax will raise America's revenue, decrease the amount people pay in taxes, provides freedom to choose how much to pay, and is simpler than the current tax system.

As drhead has said, the national sales tax would be a regressive tax on the poor.

Raising the revenue the gov't gets is equivalent to more theft, in a less direct form, while enhancing the welfare state with its crony capitalism.

Instead of a national sales tax, a flat tax should be more preferable.

I mentioned it earlier, I believe it's a progressive fair tax which families under 31k a year pay nothing in taxes.
http://www.fairtax.org...

I dont understand, isnt the fairtax just a sales tax? If this is the case (I could be wrong) how on Earth does one tell if a family makes under 31k when they go buy something at Costco or whatever?

Govt prebates them 7k or whatever a year, then they pay the tax

Can you elaborate exactly on what you mean? I am utterly uneducated here

They'll get a tax refund check at the beginning of each month for 23% of what they will earn? Earned the previous month maybe? Not sure exactly but up to 7k, the graph shows in better detail. the jist of it is that instead of a rebate after they paid the tax they'll get a pre bate before they pay it.

But how on Earth does the government know what their income will be before the year ends?

I was wrong, everyone gets the same amount, 7k a year.

ohhh ok

Technicall speakig,you are both wrong. The prebate is calculated by your size family only. It has nothing to do with income.
Equation:
Poverty level spending for your size family X 23% =Prebate in one year
Poverty people only buy what is the absolute necessity. Therefore, the prebate would ensure that the taxes on life's necessities would cancel out. Therefore, the tax burden does not shift on the poor and it is, as the name sugests, fair.
Cowboy0108
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4/26/2013 7:02:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The reply directly above is crucial for this forum. Apparently, there is much confusion with the prebate and a misconeption that this tax system puts a burden on the poor.
lewis20
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4/26/2013 7:06:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 7:01:17 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
Poverty level spending for your size family X 23% =Prebate in one year

Right, so a family of 4 gets .92 a year
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
drhead
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4/26/2013 8:47:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 7:02:35 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
The reply directly above is crucial for this forum. Apparently, there is much confusion with the prebate and a misconeption that this tax system puts a burden on the poor.

However, more wealthy people would spend more money on investments and less on buying stuff, so it still is effectively regressive.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
lewis20
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4/26/2013 8:49:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 8:47:29 PM, drhead wrote:
At 4/26/2013 7:02:35 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
The reply directly above is crucial for this forum. Apparently, there is much confusion with the prebate and a misconeption that this tax system puts a burden on the poor.

However, more wealthy people would spend more money on investments and less on buying stuff, so it still is effectively regressive.

Spending and investing are different things, it might not nail them when they use money to make money, but any time they spend their money on a good or service, they're hit with the tax.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
drhead
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4/27/2013 2:35:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 8:49:22 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 8:47:29 PM, drhead wrote:
At 4/26/2013 7:02:35 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
The reply directly above is crucial for this forum. Apparently, there is much confusion with the prebate and a misconeption that this tax system puts a burden on the poor.

However, more wealthy people would spend more money on investments and less on buying stuff, so it still is effectively regressive.

Spending and investing are different things, it might not nail them when they use money to make money, but any time they spend their money on a good or service, they're hit with the tax.

But lower-income families naturally spend a larger percentage of their income by buying goods and services. Even with the prebate, it still puts a large amount of the tax burden on the lower and middle class. This is why a flat or slightly progressive tax (one that peaks off at perhaps about 1.5x-2x the poverty line) is the only "fair" tax. Whether you spend your money, save your money, invest your money, or use your money to roll up a joint, you still pay your fair share.

It also fails to account for the aversion to buying caused by a large sales tax. While the total at the end might be the same, actually being able to see the amount of tax you are paying separately from the price of the product itself is enough to make people less likely to buy something. If you look at a pricetag where there is no sales tax, you just think "that's the price". If you look at a pricetag where there is a large sales tax, you think "that's the price, plus there's a large sales tax". The fact that you see an item at a lower price than what you'll actually pay, and that you know you'll be paying 23% more, might be enough to make you hold off on a purchase.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Khaos_Mage
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4/27/2013 3:45:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 7:06:44 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 7:01:17 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
Poverty level spending for your size family X 23% =Prebate in one year

Right, so a family of 4 gets .92 a year

No.
The poverty line, last I checked, is around $14K, plus about $3500/additional member of the household. So, the poverty line for a family of four is $24,500. This means that a family of four would recieve a monthly prebate check of $469 ($24,500 x 23% / 12 months).

While a single person (one person household) would recieve a prebate of only $268.

It has nothing to do with their income. It is fair because everyone household will receive a check, and everyone pays taxes on their purchases.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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4/27/2013 3:50:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2013 2:35:53 AM, drhead wrote:
At 4/26/2013 8:49:22 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/26/2013 8:47:29 PM, drhead wrote:
At 4/26/2013 7:02:35 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
The reply directly above is crucial for this forum. Apparently, there is much confusion with the prebate and a misconeption that this tax system puts a burden on the poor.

However, more wealthy people would spend more money on investments and less on buying stuff, so it still is effectively regressive.

Spending and investing are different things, it might not nail them when they use money to make money, but any time they spend their money on a good or service, they're hit with the tax.

But lower-income families naturally spend a larger percentage of their income by buying goods and services. Even with the prebate, it still puts a large amount of the tax burden on the lower and middle class. This is why a flat or slightly progressive tax (one that peaks off at perhaps about 1.5x-2x the poverty line) is the only "fair" tax. Whether you spend your money, save your money, invest your money, or use your money to roll up a joint, you still pay your fair share.

Because of the prebate, the fair tax actually is progressive.
Those below the poverty line have a negative tax liability, those at the poverty line pay no tax, those above pay a percent in taxes, and those making more will pay a higher percentage. It is still progressive.

It also fails to account for the aversion to buying caused by a large sales tax. While the total at the end might be the same, actually being able to see the amount of tax you are paying separately from the price of the product itself is enough to make people less likely to buy something. If you look at a pricetag where there is no sales tax, you just think "that's the price". If you look at a pricetag where there is a large sales tax, you think "that's the price, plus there's a large sales tax". The fact that you see an item at a lower price than what you'll actually pay, and that you know you'll be paying 23% more, might be enough to make you hold off on a purchase.

This lowering of purchases is off-set by those that cheat on their taxes currently. For example, servers who don't claim their tips or illegals (or others) who are paid under the table. They may have avoided income taxes, but they can't avoid the sales tax.

Or course, this may lead to a black market of sorts...
My work here is, finally, done.