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Elitism

johngriswald
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11/23/2009 9:51:55 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Yes, liberal ones only wear cloaks at all times and speak in an elvish tongue.
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kelly224
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11/23/2009 10:21:20 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 9:51:55 AM, johngriswald wrote:
Yes, liberal ones only wear cloaks at all times and speak in an elvish tongue.

And what Sir are the characteristics of a Conservative one?....A few differences in not wanting government in your buisness,but you rely heavily on the government to help keep a seisure on wealth. They both monopolize, and are up tight snobs who have their faces stuck in their asses.
johngriswald
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11/23/2009 10:25:38 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 10:21:20 AM, kelly224 wrote:
rely heavily on the government to help keep a seisure on wealth.

Many conservatives like money, thus I don't think any of them would wish that money dies by a seizure, nor would they rely on the government to do so.

They both monopolize

I think you're referring to business, not conservatives.

and are up tight snobs who have their faces stuck in their asses.

Better than poor nonproductive citizens who take handouts...hmm who would they be again?
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kelly224
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11/23/2009 10:39:30 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 10:25:38 AM, johngriswald wrote:
At 11/23/2009 10:21:20 AM, kelly224 wrote:
rely heavily on the government to help keep a seisure on wealth.

Many conservatives like money, thus I don't think any of them would wish that money dies by a seizure, nor would they rely on the government to do so.

They both monopolize

I think you're referring to business, not conservatives.

and are up tight snobs who have their faces stuck in their asses.

Better than poor nonproductive citizens who take handouts...hmm who would they be again?

I guess you believe all that are poor want to be there, and that they love it. Do you also believe that folks don't wanna do better for themselves?.....I'm not gonna turn this into a race battle as I see you are. I'm stating my opinion, if you want to attack it with sarcasm,than so be it.

Better be poor, than to be up in a high place and have a lack of fundamental characer. I guess the ones with all the money ususally are the ones that go on shooting rampages when they loose their jobs. Or are the first to say they are for equality, but ignore there fellow man.

Also the ones that are so morally right have the biggest drug addictions. They have all the money, but can't enjoy it because they are empty inside. Thus, this is why the Rush Limbaughs, the Bill Clinton's and the likes are some of the biggect dopeheads in history, but claim to be morally right. Live your life, instead of acuqiring one in a text book .
johngriswald
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11/23/2009 10:50:21 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I guess you believe all that are poor want to be there, and that they love it. Do you also believe that folks don't wanna do better for themselves?

I believe some don't care, others made a mistake that impede them from ever bettering themselves (teenage pregnancy, dropped out of highschool, committ a serious crime) While others actually do care and are currently bettering themselves and are just facing a bad economy with a higher unemployment rate.

Typically poor people don't have a highschool education, or didn't bother to go to college. That's their own fault, as anyone can go to college, it will simply be more difficult and more of a struggle for some, but it isn't impossible. Others just refuse to move to a different state that would give them more opportunities, while others have experienced a shift in the demands of the economy (manufacturing) and refuse to adapt by retraining themselves.

.....I'm not gonna turn this into a race battle as I see you are. I'm stating my opinion, if you want to attack it with sarcasm,than so be it.
I believe you just did turn it into a race battle as you seem to bring up race quite a lot when no one else does. I never even hinted towards race nor does race have anything to do with liberalism or conservatism. Frankly I don't see why you feel inclined to bring up race every other sentence when it has nothing to do with anything.

Better be poor, than to be up in a high place and have a lack of fundamental characer. I guess the ones with all the money ususally are the ones that go on shooting rampages when they loose their jobs. Or are the first to say they are for equality, but ignore there fellow man.

It's easy to put a negative stimulus on the people with the most money, however you shouldn't demonize success or you yourself will never attain it.

Also the ones that are so morally right have the biggest drug addictions. They have all the money, but can't enjoy it because they are empty inside. Thus, this is why the Rush Limbaughs, the Bill Clinton's and the likes are some of the biggect dopeheads in history, but claim to be morally right. Live your life, instead of acuqiring one in a text book .

????
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kelly224
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11/23/2009 11:02:02 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 10:50:21 AM, johngriswald wrote:
I guess you believe all that are poor want to be there, and that they love it. Do you also believe that folks don't wanna do better for themselves?

I believe some don't care, others made a mistake that impede them from ever bettering themselves (teenage pregnancy, dropped out of highschool, committ a serious crime) While others actually do care and are currently bettering themselves and are just facing a bad economy with a higher unemployment rate.

Typically poor people don't have a highschool education, or didn't bother to go to college. That's their own fault, as anyone can go to college, it will simply be more difficult and more of a struggle for some, but it isn't impossible. Others just refuse to move to a different state that would give them more opportunities, while others have experienced a shift in the demands of the economy (manufacturing) and refuse to adapt by retraining themselves.

.....I'm not gonna turn this into a race battle as I see you are. I'm stating my opinion, if you want to attack it with sarcasm,than so be it.
I believe you just did turn it into a race battle as you seem to bring up race quite a lot when no one else does. I never even hinted towards race nor does race have anything to do with liberalism or conservatism. Frankly I don't see why you feel inclined to bring up race every other sentence when it has nothing to do with anything.

Better be poor, than to be up in a high place and have a lack of fundamental characer. I guess the ones with all the money ususally are the ones that go on shooting rampages when they loose their jobs. Or are the first to say they are for equality, but ignore there fellow man.

It's easy to put a negative stimulus on the people with the most money, however you shouldn't demonize success or you yourself will never attain it.

Also the ones that are so morally right have the biggest drug addictions. They have all the money, but can't enjoy it because they are empty inside. Thus, this is why the Rush Limbaughs, the Bill Clinton's and the likes are some of the biggect dopeheads in history, but claim to be morally right. Live your life, instead of acuqiring one in a text book .

????

Let me state something. I am in no way saying that success is something to be envied. I am fully aware of how opportunities abound, and I'm not life's proverbial victim. I am a young black male, but I am not ignorant of the fact that large proportions of us are illiterate, and could care less about school. At the same time, we are constantly harrassed for not being like everyone else. We are not like everyone else, and should not be forced to conform into some mode that doesn't fit us. We can all coexist, but mindsets that try to make it as though we are just plain lazy, and a waste get me heated.I can be a little hotheaded, but for the most part aam very level headed. The last commnent was made in accordance how many folks rely upon their intellect to govern all their lives decisions.
johngriswald
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11/23/2009 11:08:27 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 11:02:02 AM, kelly224 wrote:

Let me state something. I am in no way saying that success is something to be envied. I am fully aware of how opportunities abound, and I'm not life's proverbial victim. I am a young black male, but I am not ignorant of the fact that large proportions of us are illiterate, and could care less about school. At the same time, we are constantly harrassed for not being like everyone else. We are not like everyone else, and should not be forced to conform into some mode that doesn't fit us. We can all coexist, but mindsets that try to make it as though we are just plain lazy, and a waste get me heated.I can be a little hotheaded, but for the most part aam very level headed. The last commnent was made in accordance how many folks rely upon their intellect to govern all their lives decisions.

Intellect should govern all life decisions, also if you aren't literate and don't care about school, then don't expect to succeed. No one is forcing you to conform. However if you don't, then don't expect to ever succeed in the workplace, and don't call it racism when you don't.

If you "aren't like everybody else" meaning that you aren't literate and don't care about school, then don't expect to be like everybody else and have the same level of success as they do.

PS: It is laziness, and not culture.
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kelly224
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11/23/2009 11:23:18 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 11:08:27 AM, johngriswald wrote:
At 11/23/2009 11:02:02 AM, kelly224 wrote:

Let me state something. I am in no way saying that success is something to be envied. I am fully aware of how opportunities abound, and I'm not life's proverbial victim. I am a young black male, but I am not ignorant of the fact that large proportions of us are illiterate, and could care less about school. At the same time, we are constantly harrassed for not being like everyone else. We are not like everyone else, and should not be forced to conform into some mode that doesn't fit us. We can all coexist, but mindsets that try to make it as though we are just plain lazy, and a waste get me heated.I can be a little hotheaded, but for the most part aam very level headed. The last commnent was made in accordance how many folks rely upon their intellect to govern all their lives decisions.

Intellect should govern all life decisions, also if you aren't literate and don't care about school, then don't expect to succeed. No one is forcing you to conform. However if you don't, then don't expect to ever succeed in the workplace, and don't call it racism when you don't.

If you "aren't like everybody else" meaning that you aren't literate and don't care about school, then don't expect to be like everybody else and have the same level of success as they do.

PS: It is laziness, and not culture.

Intellect is not a solid grounds to make all lifes decisions. In my opinion. There are times when you have to use your heart. It is insane for me to think that I wont have to conform in some way, but conforming as a form of subservience is not what I am interested in.
johngriswald
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11/23/2009 11:39:27 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 11:23:18 AM, kelly224 wrote:
Intellect is not a solid grounds to make all lifes decisions. In my opinion. There are times when you have to use your heart.

You took that from a movie.

It is insane for me to think that I wont have to conform in some way, but conforming as a form of subservience is not what I am interested in.

Since when is subservience, becoming literate and trying hard in school to succeed? If you're not interested in that, then you're not interest in success, and are only using your race as an excuse for your laziness.
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Volkov
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11/23/2009 12:21:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 9:49:38 AM, kelly224 wrote:
Are there any differences making the liberal elitists different from their conservative counterpatrs?

Not really. Elitists are all about one thing - power. This isn't necessarily "power" in the authoritarian sense, where you control every aspect of another individual's life, but rather "power" is exercised through obtaining and wielding unique influence among societal peers, which gives you the power to change the way things run in society, basically on a whim.

In a way, all politicians are "elitists," but to simply define any group of people in a high position in society as "elitist" isn't correct; elitism doesn't necessarily describe your position in society, or the power you wield, but rather how you use it. If you use your position and power to make decisions that will affect others without their explicit input or choice, you are described as elitist. If you use your position and power to make decisions that will affect others with their input and choice, you're described as a populist.

Basically, an elitist makes decisions by themselves, and a populist makes decisions by others.

What the elitist's personal political ideology is, whether authoritarian, libertarian, conservative or liberal, isn't really dependent upon whether you're elitist or not. Elitism is actually within a different sphere; elitism is opposed to populism, as conservatism is opposed to progressivism. You can be a progressive populist, a conservative elitist, but not an elitist populist.

So, in essence, a liberal elitist isn't different from a conservative elitist if you're focusing only upon the "elitist" part.
kelly224
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11/23/2009 12:24:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 11:39:27 AM, johngriswald wrote:
At 11/23/2009 11:23:18 AM, kelly224 wrote:
Intellect is not a solid grounds to make all lifes decisions. In my opinion. There are times when you have to use your heart.

You took that from a movie.

It is insane for me to think that I wont have to conform in some way, but conforming as a form of subservience is not what I am interested in.

Since when is subservience, becoming literate and trying hard in school to succeed? If you're not interested in that, then you're not interest in success, and are only using your race as an excuse for your laziness.

If you think I am lazy, I can't change your opinion.

Not everyone travels the same path. We all want the same things in life, we think differently though. You want life, liberty, and to pursue happiness, and you don't think I don't?

Do you think I prefer coming from humble means?...The irony about life is that everyone is quick to pass their values, and morals on others, without first trying to UNDERSTAND that person. We are individuals, not robots. It gets taken as excuses because no one is accountable in this country. Many blacks make monumental excuses, but there are some who are just as upset about it as you are.

You are sitting where you are stating your opinion on things you just see from the outside. What is your issue with life, because we all have them.Oh, you stated that blacks are lazy, which is a total falsehood. Until you have lived in an inner city neighborhood, and tried to carry on with your studies when you are given out dated textbooks, your schooll budget is the first thing to get cut when the budget is low, the armed forces vehemently recruit you when they need to stimulate the ecnonmy from greed stricken egotisical barbarians who only serve self, who wont bother sending their kids first, or better yet at all. We are the excuse makers, but people like Bush and Cheney who dodged service get to start wars,and not be prosecuted.

It gets under my skin when people sit up high and mighty acting like they have all the solutions, when they can't possibly feel what another is feeling. I can't totally see where you are coming from with some of your views, but at any rate, I understand that we had two totally different upbringings. In my opinion, white folks have NO reason to complain about injustice, nor racism, but that is an opinion. If we all start engaging in some honest debates of race relations, maybe some things will change, but as long as some are swept under the rug, and the corporate elite keeps embezzling, and getting away with slaps on the wrist, than I guess we won't progress. I suppose you are a conservative by your statements ( you can't put a new face on the same old mess) I am aware of what conservatism is about, and that is to preserve life as it exists, and that includes excluding minorities.
kelly224
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11/23/2009 12:26:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 12:21:28 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 11/23/2009 9:49:38 AM, kelly224 wrote:
Are there any differences making the liberal elitists different from their conservative counterpatrs?

Not really. Elitists are all about one thing - power. This isn't necessarily "power" in the authoritarian sense, where you control every aspect of another individual's life, but rather "power" is exercised through obtaining and wielding unique influence among societal peers, which gives you the power to change the way things run in society, basically on a whim.

In a way, all politicians are "elitists," but to simply define any group of people in a high position in society as "elitist" isn't correct; elitism doesn't necessarily describe your position in society, or the power you wield, but rather how you use it. If you use your position and power to make decisions that will affect others without their explicit input or choice, you are described as elitist. If you use your position and power to make decisions that will affect others with their input and choice, you're described as a populist.

Basically, an elitist makes decisions by themselves, and a populist makes decisions by others.

What the elitist's personal political ideology is, whether authoritarian, libertarian, conservative or liberal, isn't really dependent upon whether you're elitist or not. Elitism is actually within a different sphere; elitism is opposed to populism, as conservatism is opposed to progressivism. You can be a progressive populist, a conservative elitist, but not an elitist populist.

So, in essence, a liberal elitist isn't different from a conservative elitist if you're focusing only upon the "elitist" part.

I am more focused on the power to the exclusion of others. I am not upset with people who have wealth, I am upset with those that seek to control others, and think they have a right to do so .
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/23/2009 12:32:17 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Race is an illusion and a concept used by the elites to divide and rule. To identify yourself by your race is like an astronaut who thinks he is his space suit.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
kelly224
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11/23/2009 12:38:54 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 11:39:27 AM, johngriswald wrote:
At 11/23/2009 11:23:18 AM, kelly224 wrote:
Intellect is not a solid grounds to make all lifes decisions. In my opinion. There are times when you have to use your heart.

You took that from a movie.

It is insane for me to think that I wont have to conform in some way, but conforming as a form of subservience is not what I am interested in.

Since when is subservience, becoming literate and trying hard in school to succeed? If you're not interested in that, then you're not interest in success, and are only using your race as an excuse for your laziness.

Who cares where I got it from? Are ALL of your thoughts original, or are you homogenized like others? Instead of attacking where I got something from, offer your opinion.
johngriswald
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11/23/2009 12:41:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
If you think I am lazy, I can't change your opinion.

I don't think your lazy, I think not trying hard in school and not becoming literate is a fine example of laziness. So if you exhibit those qualities, you exhibit laziness.

Not everyone travels the same path. We all want the same things in life, we think differently though. You want life, liberty, and to pursue happiness, and you don't think I don't?

Again, movie lines which say nothing.

Do you think I prefer coming from humble means?...The irony about life is that everyone is quick to pass their values, and morals on others, without first trying to UNDERSTAND that person. We are individuals, not robots. It gets taken as excuses because no one is accountable in this country. Many blacks make monumental excuses, but there are some who are just as upset about it as you are.

And a good reason for being upset when someone attributes laziness to ones culture.

You are sitting where you are stating your opinion on things you just see from the outside. What is your issue with life, because we all have them.Oh, you stated that blacks are lazy, which is a total falsehood.

No I'm stating my opinion from what you told me. It was you who said at it is a part of your culture not to try in school or learn to become literate. I'm simply attributing the quality of laziness to that fact and saying it has nothing to do with culture.

Here is my source: "I am a young black male, but I am not ignorant of the fact that large proportions of us are illiterate, and could care less about school. At the same time, we are constantly harrassed for not being like everyone else. We are not like everyone else, and should not be forced to conform into some mode that doesn't fit us."

Until you have lived in an inner city neighborhood, and tried to carry on with your studies when you are given out dated textbooks, your school budget is the first thing to get cut when the budget is low, the armed forces vehemently recruit you when they need to stimulate the ecnonmy from greed stricken egotisical barbarians who only serve self, who wont bother sending their kids first, or better yet at all.

That fact doesn't exist just in the inner city, but in any rural area that isn't wealthy. An area where I grew up in, where our school budget was nothing, we shared textbooks that were outdated, and a high portion of our graduating class is currently in the military to pay for college.

We are the excuse makers, but people like Bush and Cheney who dodged service get to start wars,and not be prosecuted.
I don't get how they have a place in this conversation

It gets under my skin when people sit up high and mighty acting like they have all the solutions, when they can't possibly feel what another is feeling. I can't totally see where you are coming from with some of your views, but at any rate, I understand that we had two totally different upbringings.

I really don't think they are that different. It gets under my skin when people make excuses for laziness.

In my opinion, white folks have NO reason to complain about injustice, nor racism, but that is an opinion.
Racism works both ways and it is present for everyone. I agree its definitely present to whites in a much smaller percentage (because whites consist of the bulk of the population), but that does not mean it doesn't exist. Especially as you have just showed us your stigma of whites being the reason for your lack of success.

If we all start engaging in some honest debates of race relations, maybe some things will change, but as long as some are swept under the rug, and the corporate elite keeps embezzling, and getting away with slaps on the wrist, than I guess we won't progress.

I agree,however I don't understand how "corporate elite" have anything to do with the debate

I suppose you are a conservative by your statements ( you can't put a new face on the same old mess) I am aware of what conservatism is about, and that is to preserve life as it exists, and that includes excluding minorities.

I'm not a conservative, but a capitalistic (economic) libertarian (socially) who believes that governments only purpose in business is to prevent market failures by taxation and subsidization of externalities.

Furthermore your perception of conservatism is inaccurate.
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johngriswald
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11/23/2009 12:42:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 12:38:54 PM, kelly224 wrote:
Who cares where I got it from? Are ALL of your thoughts original, or are you homogenized like others? Instead of attacking where I got something from, offer your opinion.

I care, my thoughts are generally original and have logic to support them.
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MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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11/23/2009 12:43:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
'Elitism' is just a smear given to intelligent politicians by their moronic 'populist' counterparts as a means of encouraging stupidity.

Case study; Barack Obama is an 'elitist' whereas Sarah Palin is 'genuine.'
Dede Scozzafava is an 'elitist' while Doug Hoffman is standing up for American values.

It's this hilarious and sadly effective doublespeak where being educated carries a negative connotation.

Any political office is inherently elitist. You are a member of a highly paid, exclusive and elite minority who effectuate policy for an entire country. I wold simply hope that the person who is in the all-important position, say, reads a daily media outlet other than NewsBusters.
kelly224
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11/23/2009 12:46:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 12:32:17 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Race is an illusion and a concept used by the elites to divide and rule. To identify yourself by your race is like an astronaut who thinks he is his space suit.

Thank you. and it is evident in how me and Mr.Griswald have been going back and forth over stuff that is perpertuated to keep us divided. Whomever the architect of divide and conquer was was brilliant.

It would be a lie if I said I did not see race, but I was not born to hate, not raised to hate, but ask anyone who has been discriminated against how it feels. How it feels to get blank stares when you walk into a room, white women clutch their purses when I get on an elevator. No cabbies stop for me, to be treated like the distant cousin who just takes up space.

With all that has happened in history, you would think that we as a human race would have grown, and learned, but as long as things are swept under the rug, and there is no honest dialouge on race, then it will only get worst. We will contiue going into being a policed state, and loose more and more of our civil liberties.Don't worry, big brother government will protect you, just claim them SAVIUOR
kelly224
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11/23/2009 12:51:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 12:42:10 PM, johngriswald wrote:
At 11/23/2009 12:38:54 PM, kelly224 wrote:
Who cares where I got it from? Are ALL of your thoughts original, or are you homogenized like others? Instead of attacking where I got something from, offer your opinion.

I care, my thoughts are generally original and have logic to support them.

I am not aware of it coming from a movie, but oh well if it did. You are not going to loose any sleep because you discovered a statement you saw before,are you?
kelly224
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11/23/2009 12:53:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 12:43:29 PM, MistahKurtz wrote:
'Elitism' is just a smear given to intelligent politicians by their moronic 'populist' counterparts as a means of encouraging stupidity.

Case study; Barack Obama is an 'elitist' whereas Sarah Palin is 'genuine.'
Dede Scozzafava is an 'elitist' while Doug Hoffman is standing up for American values.

It's this hilarious and sadly effective doublespeak where being educated carries a negative connotation.

Any political office is inherently elitist. You are a member of a highly paid, exclusive and elite minority who effectuate policy for an entire country. I wold simply hope that the person who is in the all-important position, say, reads a daily media outlet other than NewsBusters.

Our society is made out of labels, that how they classify people. A number, not a person. Just one more tally for the US census.
johngriswald
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11/23/2009 12:54:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
You are not going to loose any sleep because you discovered a statement you saw before,are you?

My sleep is not tight so i have no cause to loosen it.
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kelly224
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11/23/2009 1:16:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 12:54:52 PM, johngriswald wrote:
You are not going to loose any sleep because you discovered a statement you saw before,are you?

My sleep is not tight so i have no cause to loosen it.

lol, who said anything about sleeping tight?
johngriswald
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11/23/2009 1:18:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 1:16:00 PM, kelly224 wrote:
lol, who said anything about sleeping tight?

You did, you told me I wouldn't loose my sleep, and I agreed because it isn't tight.
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Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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11/23/2009 3:14:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 12:43:29 PM, MistahKurtz wrote:
Any political office is inherently elitist. You are a member of a highly paid, exclusive and elite minority who effectuate policy for an entire country. I wold simply hope that the person who is in the all-important position, say, reads a daily media outlet other than NewsBusters.

Or reads his own country's news media! :D

That concludes my Stephen Harper references for today.
MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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11/28/2009 10:56:51 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 12:53:57 PM, kelly224 wrote:
Our society is made out of labels, that how they classify people. A number, not a person. Just one more tally for the US census.

What in god's name are you talking about.
Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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11/28/2009 5:31:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 12:24:02 PM, kelly224 wrote:
The irony about life is that everyone is quick to pass their values, and morals on others, without first trying to UNDERSTAND that person.

If you want someone to understand you, I'm wiling to listen. I know what it's like to be misunderstood.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/28/2009 5:53:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/23/2009 11:02:02 AM, kelly224 wrote:
Let me state something. I am in no way saying that success is something to be envied. I am fully aware of how opportunities abound, and I'm not life's proverbial victim. I am a young black male, but I am not ignorant of the fact that large proportions of us are illiterate, and could care less about school. At the same time, we are constantly harrassed for not being like everyone else. We are not like everyone else, and should not be forced to conform into some mode that doesn't fit us. We can all coexist, but mindsets that try to make it as though we are just plain lazy, and a waste get me heated.I can be a little hotheaded, but for the most part aam very level headed. The last commnent was made in accordance how many folks rely upon their intellect to govern all their lives decisions.

Um, I have a theory that I'd like to bounce off of you since you're a young, intelligent black male.

It's now at the point where stating that Blacks in America are struggling with education etc. is not really politically incorrect. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to know that statistically, African Americans are not doing OK.

A lot of people blame laziness but frankly, I don't see that as the major reason. However, I also don't think it's due to anything like what you said:

"We are not like everyone else, and should not be forced to conform into some mode that doesn't fit us."

Yeah, I also think that's unfounded. You know who else has great difficulty conforming? Indians and East Asians. You know, the ones who are so overrepresented in the ivies that rich white college admins are enacting reverse affirmative action? The ones who consistently score in the top 1% of the country?

So no, the difficulty for blacks to break out of the poverty cycle isn't due to BEING poor, or being kept down, or not being able to assimilate, or language barriers, or standardized tests. No, immigrant success disproves all of that.

My theory is that blacks in general tend not to sacrifice life and limb towards the education of their children. Sure, they love their kids, but they focus less on education. And realistically, that's how you break out of the poverty cycle.

See the Indian Taxi driver, or the Korean orange salesman, or the Chinese deliveryman, who starves themselves and work 60 hours a week for 20 years. They refuse to take sick days, show up to all their parent teacher conferences, spend every penny they have on prep schools, tutoring schools, moving to better neighborhoods. They take extra jobs, night shifts, work holidays. Neither rain, shine, sleet, snow, heat of day, dark of night, etc. These people can finally retire in style after their children gets their Law degrees or Medical licenses or etc.

They don't have any reverends to speak on their behalf. They don't have anger or resentment. They don't point fingers at the people who were here before them. No national organizations. No race card to play. No affirmative action to tip the scales. Just sweat, blood, tears, and good family values.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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11/28/2009 6:07:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Not to burst Kleptin's bubble of Asian superiority, but there are quite a few Indians, Chinese and others that do exactly the same thing that he has accused blacks of doing. I know them personally.

It isn't necessarily that black parents don't force their kids to go to school, while Asian parents do. Such ideas are myths of race, perpetuated by those with little contact outside of their world of cliche conservative elitism. The poverty barrier stretches to all races, and the reasons for the existence of that barrier are also none different from race to race.

I don't know what is going on in the United States in concerns to blacks, simply because we don't have the same issue in Canada. In fact, there are more Asians and Hispanics/Caucasians in that situation than there is blacks, by virtue of our rather tiny African population.

But I don't think they're mired in poverty because, you know, Asians must have some sort of complex that keeps them there. Or Romanians. Or Sikhs. There is absolutely continued discrimination, not to mention a failure on the part of the government to allow opportunity to take root in immigrant and impoverished communities. Hell, its even because of growth patterns that these communities spring up.

Maybe rather than trying to focus on these faux-pas psychological issues that some claim pertain to race, try fixing the actual problems that are affecting all of these communities - not just one.