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Statism: Warfare, Welfare + Cultural Violence

Wallstreetatheist
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5/3/2013 10:50:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The violence in our culture is appalling, heinous, tragic, entirely predictable and yet not uncommon. As an individualist, the use of words such as a "society" or "culture" must not be afforded the status or rights of an individual, but the concepts are necessary and can remain useful in discussing cultural ills. The "culture" referred to in this article is simply the amalgams of human values and tastes across the world. It is important not to focus simply on the blatantly forceful culture of the United States but to focus on the world large. The purpose of this article is to offer a simple thesis as to a contributing cause behind these acts of violence that we have become all too familiar with.

As is the case with many distorted and corrupted issues in our time, we can begin with the real meanings of certain terms as they are used to misconstrue one good idea after another. (See liberalism, capitalism, etc) The foreign policies of the U.S. and the majority of the Western world have since before WWII, dramatically shifted back towards the Mercantilist ideals of the late middle ages. The populace of any given nation has never been too fond of their overlord's imperial adventures, and they especially hate footing the bill. Serving to change public opinion the term "Isolationist" was dragged through the mud and defined as a derogatory label that Murray Rothbard referred to as meaning "If not actively pro-Nazi, "isolationists" at the very least were narrow-minded ignoramuses ignorant of the world around them."

Rothbard again pointed out that it was not enough to simply make up a word and ruin it, but that a word with positive connotations must be redefined. "Until the smear campaign of the 1930s, opponents of war were considered the true "internationalists", men who opposed the aggrandizement of the Nation State and favored peace, free trade, free migration and free cultural exchanges"

So here is where we have a shift in lexicon that allows entirely imperialistic exercises of government to be sold to the populace as acts of internationalism, multi-culturalism and all that other crap that doesn't have any meaning.

When the government acts on our behalf overseas it plays by no rules. They are bullying other kids on the playground of the world, and what happens to bullies? This is an oversimplification of the principle of blowback, but it can't be overlooked in terms of international/political violence. The same behavior that sparks the blowback we have experienced also sparks terror here at home.

In much of the West, and the United States in particular, the governments are over-the-top paternalistic. They treat the "citizenry" as if they are at best useful idiots, and at worse in the way of "collective progress". It is naive to think that people will react differently to governments doing the bullying than they would if it were anyone else. Of course it is not as easy to deal with the Leviathan that is the State as it is the playground bully. To punch Uncle Sam in the nose is a suicide wish. But it is equally naive to assume that the anguish and discontent created by the policies of the State will simply wash away unnoticed.

I do not have any extra knowledge as to what motivated the murderers in Blacksburg, Aurora, Newtown, Boston, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria. No matter the aggressor, be it the U.S., NATO, Iran, or foreign/domestic terrorists there is one commonality. Everyone alive on Earth today has grown up under the blanket of force that we call the state.

Whether it be through the foreign policy of any number of nation States, or the violent nature of the welfare state, violence is constant in our lives. There can be no effective discussion of cultural ills until the amount of violence and coercion in our lives is recognized. Statism is a kind of slow and painful torture. People react in a million different ways. Some develop a sort of "Stockholm Statism", and others submit peacefully so to protect their families. Others react violently and irrationally. Does that sound familiar?

A child grows up and imitates the bad habits of their parents. When kids of the paternal state grow up, do they see a problem with violence? Or do they see it as the answer?

http://thehumanecondition.com...
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Wallstreetatheist
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5/3/2013 11:15:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This thread is now about this video and your thought on the video.
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darkkermit
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5/3/2013 11:48:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It always amuses me that people seem to complain so much about police brutality, yet somehow I've nvr experienced that before yet have been physically attacked by non-police officers. I'd say my experience is not unlike others, since most people I know have been attacked by others but not by a police officers.
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Wallstreetatheist
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5/5/2013 1:48:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You and your group of friends are a representative sample for all 7,000,000,000 of us?

Look at this trouble maker drinking Arizona Iced Tea. Serves him right!
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Paradox_7
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5/5/2013 2:43:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 11:48:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
It always amuses me that people seem to complain so much about police brutality, yet somehow I've nvr experienced that before yet have been physically attacked by non-police officers. I'd say my experience is not unlike others, since most people I know have been attacked by others but not by a police officers.


I support our police, and definitely want them sticking around, but, I see them abusing their power quite often. They are human, and humans tend to suck.. so we can't expect them to be that much different... some are legit, and some are sh*t..

My wife has 4 uncles who are currently police officers, and they openly admit harassing and even beating people they just don't like.. especially non-whites.
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drhead
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5/5/2013 5:03:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 1:48:27 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
You and your group of friends are a representative sample for all 7,000,000,000 of us?

Look at this trouble maker drinking Arizona Iced Tea. Serves him right!


The fact that that video exists shows that things are working out exactly like they are supposed to. Since we don't live in a dictatorship, public officials HAVE to respond to incidents of power abuse like this. And because there is nobody besides that dumbass cop (and possibly other dumbasses) defending the other side, you can be 90% sure that that cop will lose his job.
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darkkermit
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5/5/2013 5:34:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 2:43:27 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 5/3/2013 11:48:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
It always amuses me that people seem to complain so much about police brutality, yet somehow I've nvr experienced that before yet have been physically attacked by non-police officers. I'd say my experience is not unlike others, since most people I know have been attacked by others but not by a police officers.


I support our police, and definitely want them sticking around, but, I see them abusing their power quite often. They are human, and humans tend to suck.. so we can't expect them to be that much different... some are legit, and some are sh*t..

Note what I said above. if they somehow sucked so much I don't see why the police hasn't beaten me up or other people i've known. And its not as if i haven't been beaten up before, just not by a police officer.

My wife has 4 uncles who are currently police officers, and they openly admit harassing and even beating people they just don't like.. especially non-whites.

Calling BS on this. Getting beat up w/out doing anything seems unlikely.
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cybertron1998
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5/5/2013 5:36:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 5:34:49 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/5/2013 2:43:27 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 5/3/2013 11:48:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
It always amuses me that people seem to complain so much about police brutality, yet somehow I've nvr experienced that before yet have been physically attacked by non-police officers. I'd say my experience is not unlike others, since most people I know have been attacked by others but not by a police officers.


I support our police, and definitely want them sticking around, but, I see them abusing their power quite often. They are human, and humans tend to suck.. so we can't expect them to be that much different... some are legit, and some are sh*t..

Note what I said above. if they somehow sucked so much I don't see why the police hasn't beaten me up or other people i've known. And its not as if i haven't been beaten up before, just not by a police officer.

My wife has 4 uncles who are currently police officers, and they openly admit harassing and even beating people they just don't like.. especially non-whites.

Calling BS on this. Getting beat up w/out doing anything seems unlikely.

oh it happens.
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Wallstreetatheist
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5/5/2013 5:43:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I see no problem with giving a group of angry, incompetent white men the "authority" of the right to rule without much repercussion for their actions.
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DetectableNinja
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5/5/2013 6:36:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 11:15:32 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
This thread is now about this video and your thought on the video.


I thought there was police brutality there, specifically from 3:23 to 3:40.

At the same time, some of the comments are VERY correct in that this video is set up to tell the specific story of police brutality. Some have said that these same people were damaging property, and throwing rocks and bottles at the police (which you can see in the video).

The last time I checked, that isn't peaceful protest. That's people acting stupid.

Do I think the police overreacted for some of the people? Yes. But honestly, this isn't a sign of a growing police state or anything. This video, although I'd say it does show some valid examples of excessive force, at the same time must be recognized as trying to set up a specific narrative.
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Wallstreetatheist
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5/5/2013 7:16:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 7:01:43 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
I'm a police officer. You can ask me anything instead of assuming I want to beat you.

I don't talk to cops. They have perverted their psychology through the myth of authority. For more information see the Stanford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment.
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Agent_Orange
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5/5/2013 7:21:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 7:16:13 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/5/2013 7:01:43 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
I'm a police officer. You can ask me anything instead of assuming I want to beat you.

I don't talk to cops. They have perverted their psychology through the myth of authority. For more information see the Stanford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment.

He says, while replying to me. Question: Who do you mean you say "They"?
#BlackLivesMatter
DetectableNinja
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5/5/2013 7:50:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 7:16:13 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/5/2013 7:01:43 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
I'm a police officer. You can ask me anything instead of assuming I want to beat you.

I don't talk to cops. They have perverted their psychology through the myth of authority. For more information see the Stanford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment.

Not sure how Milgram is relevant, as it only looks at how people respond to perceived authority OVER them, not how people are affected by being given authority.

SPE...well, can't argue with that. Totally relevant.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
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darkkermit
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5/5/2013 7:59:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 7:01:43 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
I'm a police officer. You can ask me anything instead of assuming I want to beat you.

I now have a new disrespect for police officers. thank you.
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Agent_Orange
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5/5/2013 8:21:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 7:50:38 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 5/5/2013 7:16:13 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/5/2013 7:01:43 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
I'm a police officer. You can ask me anything instead of assuming I want to beat you.

I don't talk to cops. They have perverted their psychology through the myth of authority. For more information see the Stanford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment.

Not sure how Milgram is relevant, as it only looks at how people respond to perceived authority OVER them, not how people are affected by being given authority.

SPE...well, can't argue with that. Totally relevant.

Oh! I can! For one the participants who portrayed the guards were literally instructed to be oppressive. Actually police officers and prison guards aren't. Also these experiments take place in a punishment free zone. The participants are willing to hurt other people because they realize that their is no consequence to their actions. Again that's not something I'm familiar with. They're are entire bureaus of Internal Affairs Officers. Basically cops for cops. Especially where I live. After the rampart scandal and the Rodney King riots, even today IAG is tough as nails and ready to to suspend,fire or arrest any police officer who steps put of line. Even something as small as not reporting that I discharged a round accidentally will get me reprimanded.
#BlackLivesMatter
Agent_Orange
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5/5/2013 8:22:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 7:59:48 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/5/2013 7:01:43 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
I'm a police officer. You can ask me anything instead of assuming I want to beat you.

I now have a new disrespect for police officers. thank you.

Oh snap! Allow me a couple minutes to search for a fvck to give!
#BlackLivesMatter
OberHerr
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5/5/2013 9:33:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 11:15:32 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
This thread is now about this video and your thought on the video.


Some @$$holes being told repeatedly to move, and in not doing of act all surprised when they are shoved, and have flash bangs and pepper spray used on them. The lady that gets knocked over was asking for it, and she clearly was struggling against their attempts to move her, since all she was trying to do was make a scene, so I think she got off pretty lightly in all honesty. I'm surprised they only pepper sprayed at the end as well.
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OberHerr
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5/5/2013 9:34:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 7:59:48 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/5/2013 7:01:43 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
I'm a police officer. You can ask me anything instead of assuming I want to beat you.

I now have a new disrespect for police officers. thank you.

Are you being serious?
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Wallstreetatheist
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5/6/2013 12:38:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 9:33:55 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Some @$$holes being told repeatedly to move, and in not doing of act all surprised when they are shoved, and have flash bangs and pepper spray used on them. The lady that gets knocked over was asking for it, and she clearly was struggling against their attempts to move her, since all she was trying to do was make a scene, so I think she got off pretty lightly in all honesty. I'm surprised they only pepper sprayed at the end as well.

Discussing anything with you is not worth the bytes used in storing the characters. If you want to be willfully ignorant and champion a police state, so be it. I'm not going to change your mind, psychological experiments will not change your mind, history will not change your mind, statistics will not change your mind, human integrity will not change your mind. Goodbye.
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Agent_Orange
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5/6/2013 11:13:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you post a video of police brutality, it only proves my point. Sometimes police commit crimes just like civilians. But we actually get in more trouble for it. You don't live in a police state, you're just a pvssy. All the freedom you have? You live in a country where the government fears it's people, and you feel like some victim? You wouldn't know real oppression if it dropped it nuts on your forehead.
#BlackLivesMatter
Wallstreetatheist
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5/6/2013 1:20:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 11:13:05 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
If you post a video of police brutality, it only proves my point.

No, it is categorically different because they are given the "right" to assault, abuse, and kidnap. Citizens are given the "obligation" to obey. Police violently assaulting a pot smoker and kidnapping him are "just doing their job," even though their job is violently kidnapping peaceful people. If psychology, statistics, history, logic, and integrity cannot convince you, how can I?

Sometimes police commit crimes just like civilians.

No, they commit crimes every single day, and they are compensated for it. Extortion, assault, battery, kidnapping, trespassing, and damaging property are all daily activities which police engage in. Most of these crimes are just "part of their job."

But we actually get in more trouble for it.

Bull. F*cking. Sh!t. If I did something that police officers do every day: violently assaulting people and kidnapping them, I'd be in placed in prison for years. If a cop does it, he's just "doing his job."

You don't live in a police state, you're just a pvssy.

United States has 1. Highest incarceration rate of any country, 2. Largest total prison population, 3. a "War on Drugs," 4. a massive surveillance program beyond your comprehension [http://tinyurl.com...], 5. The right to indefinitely detain American citizens, 6. An increasingly militarized police force [http://www.amazon.com...], 7. An increase in police raids

All the freedom you have? You live in a country where the government fears it's people, and you feel like some victim? You wouldn't know real oppression if it dropped it nuts on your forehead.

Perhaps you should ask people whose houses have been wrongfully raided by paramilitary police forces what it feels like. Or maybe ask any of the thousands of people who are wrongfully assaulted every day by police officers. Or maybe ask the people running legitimate marijuana businesses what it feels like to have the DEA break into their businesses, steal everything, and violently assault them. Your willful, almost prideful, violent ignorance is appalling.
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Agent_Orange
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5/6/2013 1:35:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 1:20:35 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/6/2013 11:13:05 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
If you post a video of police brutality, it only proves my point.

No, it is categorically different because they are given the "right" to assault, abuse, and kidnap. Citizens are given the "obligation" to obey. Police violently assaulting a pot smoker and kidnapping him are "just doing their job," even though their job is violently kidnapping peaceful people. If psychology, statistics, history, logic, and integrity cannot convince you, how can I?
So you think arresting people is tantamount to kidnapping? Show me your statistics, I've already debunked your experiment examples..

Sometimes police commit crimes just like civilians.

No, they commit crimes every single day, and they are compensated for it. Extortion, assault, battery, kidnapping, trespassing, and damaging property are all daily activities which police engage in. Most of these crimes are just "part of their job."

Wow. I can't tell if you're trolling or not. This is completely false. That's why internal affairs exist in the first place.

But we actually get in more trouble for it.

Bull. F*cking. Sh!t. If I did something that police officers do every day: violently assaulting people and kidnapping them, I'd be in placed in prison for years. If a cop does it, he's just "doing his job."
Well that's not true, you have a right to make a citizens arrest.

You don't live in a police state, you're just a pvssy.

United States has 1. Highest incarceration rate of any country, 2. Largest total prison population, 3. a "War on Drugs," 4. a massive surveillance program beyond your comprehension [http://tinyurl.com...], 5. The right to indefinitely detain American citizens, 6. An increasingly militarized police force [http://www.amazon.com...], 7. An increase in police raids
We also have one of the highest crime rates, top 30 at least, and we're one of the most populated at over 300 million.

All the freedom you have? You live in a country where the government fears it's people, and you feel like some victim? You wouldn't know real oppression if it dropped it nuts on your forehead.

Perhaps you should ask people whose houses have been wrongfully raided by paramilitary police forces what it feels like. Or maybe ask any of the thousands of people who are wrongfully assaulted every day by police officers. Or maybe ask the people running legitimate marijuana businesses what it feels like to have the DEA break into their businesses, steal everything, and violently assault them. Your willful, almost prideful, violent ignorance is appalling.

I wrote out a really lengthy response to this but it insulted you and your intelligence multiple times so I erased it. What I will do is challenge you to a debate. "America would be better off without The Justice system or Law and Order" You'll be pro. Bring your stats, I'll bring mine.
#BlackLivesMatter
Wallstreetatheist
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5/6/2013 2:08:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 1:35:37 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 5/6/2013 1:20:35 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/6/2013 11:13:05 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
If you post a video of police brutality, it only proves my point.

No, it is categorically different because they are given the "right" to assault, abuse, and kidnap. Citizens are given the "obligation" to obey. Police violently assaulting a pot smoker and kidnapping him are "just doing their job," even though their job is violently kidnapping peaceful people. If psychology, statistics, history, logic, and integrity cannot convince you, how can I?
So you think arresting people is tantamount to kidnapping? Show me your statistics, I've already debunked your experiment examples..

lol, debunking several of the most well-respected psychological studies. That's a good one!

Start with these two:
http://www.graphs.net...
http://www.copblock.org...

Sometimes police commit crimes just like civilians.

No, they commit crimes every single day, and they are compensated for it. Extortion, assault, battery, kidnapping, trespassing, and damaging property are all daily activities which police engage in. Most of these crimes are just "part of their job."

Wow. I can't tell if you're trolling or not. This is completely false. That's why internal affairs exist in the first place.

Do you have difficulty creating arguments? Is that why you resort to baseless assertions? The selection you're responding to goes back to the numerous psychological studies of "authority." If you disagree with the reality of the human brain, there's nothing I can do for you. Again, look at the statistics I posted above. 0.19% of complaints result in meaningful disciplinary action. Do you disagree with that reality? Again, there's nothing I can do for you. "If someone doesn"t value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide that proves they should value evidence. If someone doesn"t value logic, what logical argument would you invoke to prove they should value logic?" -Sam Harris

But we actually get in more trouble for it.

Bull. F*cking. Sh!t. If I did something that police officers do every day: violently assaulting people and kidnapping them, I'd be in placed in prison for years. If a cop does it, he's just "doing his job."
Well that's not true, you have a right to make a citizens arrest.

A citizen's arrest requires a public offense or felony to be committed by the person to be arrested, a police officer's arrest does not. Also going back to your original erroneous statement, as statistics show, police officers act with near impunity in their jobs.

You don't live in a police state, you're just a pvssy.

United States has 1. Highest incarceration rate of any country, 2. Largest total prison population, 3. a "War on Drugs," 4. a massive surveillance program beyond your comprehension [http://tinyurl.com...], 5. The right to indefinitely detain American citizens, 6. An increasingly militarized police force [http://www.amazon.com...], 7. An increase in police raids
We also have one of the highest crime rates, top 30 at least, and we're one of the most populated at over 300 million.

You implicitly conceded that the United States is a police state. Good, only an incredibly ignorant person would not concede that point. The problem is what the police and legislators consider crimes such as non-violent activities that have no victims like drug possession. These are labeled as "crimes," to feed the "private" prison system. Prison corporations get payed per prisoner per month by the government which gets kickbacks for putting these incompetent laws on the books, and the taxpayer is stuck with the bill.

All the freedom you have? You live in a country where the government fears it's people, and you feel like some victim? You wouldn't know real oppression if it dropped it nuts on your forehead.

Perhaps you should ask people whose houses have been wrongfully raided by paramilitary police forces what it feels like. Or maybe ask any of the thousands of people who are wrongfully assaulted every day by police officers. Or maybe ask the people running legitimate marijuana businesses what it feels like to have the DEA break into their businesses, steal everything, and violently assault them. Your willful, almost prideful, violent ignorance is appalling.

I wrote out a really lengthy response to this but it insulted you and your intelligence multiple times so I erased it. What I will do is challenge you to a debate. "America would be better off without The Justice system or Law and Order" You'll be pro. Bring your stats, I'll bring mine.

That's not what I believe at all. I believe in private law and private rights enforcement agencies. Both have financial incentives to be equitable and treat people with respect.

I'd debate you on private rights enforcement vs. public law enforcement though. Interested?
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Agent_Orange
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5/6/2013 2:40:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 2:08:38 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/6/2013 1:35:37 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 5/6/2013 1:20:35 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/6/2013 11:13:05 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
If you post a video of police brutality, it only proves my point.

No, it is categorically different because they are given the "right" to assault, abuse, and kidnap. Citizens are given the "obligation" to obey. Police violently assaulting a pot smoker and kidnapping him are "just doing their job," even though their job is violently kidnapping peaceful people. If psychology, statistics, history, logic, and integrity cannot convince you, how can I?
So you think arresting people is tantamount to kidnapping? Show me your statistics, I've already debunked your experiment examples..

lol, debunking several of the most well-respected psychological studies. That's a good one!

Start with these two:
http://www.graphs.net...
http://www.copblock.org...
Actually according to these, it would seem police brutality is extremely rare. And some of these cases shouldn't even considered police brutality. I know from experience. I got in trouble once because I was giving a guy a ticket for fare dodging and the retard punched me in the face and tried to run. I'm in pretty good shape and used to play football. A caught up to him and tackled him to the ground, then had to wrestle with him before putting him in the zipties. Me wrestling with him ended up on a website called worldstarhiphop and I got yelled at and almost lost my job, because this @sshole didn't pay $1.50 to ride the damn train.

But I never even said that police brutality doesn't happen. I've seen it happen. But I've seen those cops lose everything because of it.

Sometimes police commit crimes just like civilians.

No, they commit crimes every single day, and they are compensated for it. Extortion, assault, battery, kidnapping, trespassing, and damaging property are all daily activities which police engage in. Most of these crimes are just "part of their job."

Wow. I can't tell if you're trolling or not. This is completely false. That's why internal affairs exist in the first place.

Do you have difficulty creating arguments? Is that why you resort to baseless assertions? The selection you're responding to goes back to the numerous psychological studies of "authority." If you disagree with the reality of the human brain, there's nothing I can do for you. Again, look at the statistics I posted above. 0.19% of complaints result in meaningful disciplinary action. Do you disagree with that reality? Again, there's nothing I can do for you. "If someone doesn"t value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide that proves they should value evidence. If someone doesn"t value logic, what logical argument would you invoke to prove they should value logic?" -Sam Harris
Wait, what's your point exactly? That humans are bad or that cops are? Do you think that there is some video we watch in the academy that tell us to go beat people?

But we actually get in more trouble for it.

Bull. F*cking. Sh!t. If I did something that police officers do every day: violently assaulting people and kidnapping them, I'd be in placed in prison for years. If a cop does it, he's just "doing his job."
Well that's not true, you have a right to make a citizens arrest.

A citizen's arrest requires a public offense or felony to be committed by the person to be arrested, a police officer's arrest does not. Also going back to your original erroneous statement, as statistics show, police officers act with near impunity in their jobs.
False, we are not allowed to detain people unless they are under arrest, not even for questioning. Any half decent defense attorney would have our balls in a vice if we tried.

You don't live in a police state, you're just a pvssy.

United States has 1. Highest incarceration rate of any country, 2. Largest total prison population, 3. a "War on Drugs," 4. a massive surveillance program beyond your comprehension [http://tinyurl.com...], 5. The right to indefinitely detain American citizens, 6. An increasingly militarized police force [http://www.amazon.com...], 7. An increase in police raids
We also have one of the highest crime rates, top 30 at least, and we're one of the most populated at over 300 million.

You implicitly conceded that the United States is a police state. Good, only an incredibly ignorant person would not concede that point. The problem is what the police and legislators consider crimes such as non-violent activities that have no victims like drug possession. These are labeled as "crimes," to feed the "private" prison system. Prison corporations get payed per prisoner per month by the government which gets kickbacks for putting these incompetent laws on the books, and the taxpayer is stuck with the bill.
Lmao you're so out of touch. Come spend a few weeks in Watts, especially the Jordan Downs projects and then tell me drugs are victim-less crimes. Also we've been instructed, at least here in L.A to not go after people who only deal marijuana. Most of those dudes are snitches anyway. You don't live in a police state. You don't know struggle. You don't know oppression.

All the freedom you have? You live in a country where the government fears it's people, and you feel like some victim? You wouldn't know real oppression if it dropped it nuts on your forehead.

Perhaps you should ask people whose houses have been wrongfully raided by paramilitary police forces what it feels like. Or maybe ask any of the thousands of people who are wrongfully assaulted every day by police officers. Or maybe ask the people running legitimate marijuana businesses what it feels like to have the DEA break into their businesses, steal everything, and violently assault them. Your willful, almost prideful, violent ignorance is appalling.

I wrote out a really lengthy response to this but it insulted you and your intelligence multiple times so I erased it. What I will do is challenge you to a debate. "America would be better off without The Justice system or Law and Order" You'll be pro. Bring your stats, I'll bring mine.

That's not what I believe at all. I believe in private law and private rights enforcement agencies. Both have financial incentives to be equitable and treat people with respect.

I'd debate you on private rights enforcement vs. public law enforcement though. Interested?

Sure, let's tango. It will be interesting to see how you can prove that private law enforcers won't be as corrupt as public.

My main point isn't that they're are bad cops out there. It's that people are bad and people sometimes become cops. Thankfully we do have departments like IAG, who existence you keep ignoring.
#BlackLivesMatter
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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5/6/2013 3:05:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 5:34:49 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/5/2013 2:43:27 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 5/3/2013 11:48:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
It always amuses me that people seem to complain so much about police brutality, yet somehow I've nvr experienced that before yet have been physically attacked by non-police officers. I'd say my experience is not unlike others, since most people I know have been attacked by others but not by a police officers.


I support our police, and definitely want them sticking around, but, I see them abusing their power quite often. They are human, and humans tend to suck.. so we can't expect them to be that much different... some are legit, and some are sh*t..

Note what I said above. if they somehow sucked so much I don't see why the police hasn't beaten me up or other people i've known. And its not as if i haven't been beaten up before, just not by a police officer.

Most of this abuse takes place in ghettos, or lower class neighborhoods. If you live in one of these places, or tend to hang out in those areas, and haven't witnessed this, then I call BS. From my experience, people with half a brain can usually avoid being harassed. Most of those who are abused, usually can't keep their mouth shut, or just have no idea what their rights are.. they typically the police can do whatever they want, and there is nothing they can do about it..

My wife has 4 uncles who are currently police officers, and they openly admit harassing and even beating people they just don't like.. especially non-whites.

Calling BS on this. Getting beat up w/out doing anything seems unlikely.

Lol, so you agree its disgusting. When I moved to Orange county in 03, most of the kids couldn't imagine why some one could kill another person simply because they got into an argument (gang members, drug dealers, thugs, etc.), they pretty much mocked me for even suggesting that such a thing does happen. They figured it would be on the news..

But, I assure you, things like that do happen, and plenty of Cops, especially in LA county, do beat the sh*t out of people. You sound like these ignorant kids.

Check this video out, in case no one posted it yet.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Wallstreetatheist
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5/6/2013 3:10:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 2:40:43 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
Actually according to these, it would seem police brutality is extremely rare.

I'll have to add basic mathematics to the list of things that can't convince you.

Wait, what's your point exactly? That humans are bad or that cops are? Do you think that there is some video we watch in the academy that tell us to go beat people?

Human nature (predominantly male human nature) is inherently violent. It is my contention that giving certain people the right to rule people through assault, control, and kidnapping amplifies the use of such violence, which is what numerous psychological studies prove.

False, we are not allowed to detain people unless they are under arrest, not even for questioning. Any half decent defense attorney would have our balls in a vice if we tried.

There are thousands of complaints and videos that prove the opposite.

Come spend a few weeks in Watts, especially the Jordan Downs projects and then tell me drugs are victim-less crimes.

This sentence made no sense. If you aren't completely devoid of intelligence, you know that the preponderant majority of drug crime is prohibition-related, not use-related. "Jeffrey A. Miron has analyzed the relation between violent crime in the U.S., as measured by the murder rate, and the enforcement of drug prohibition (including alcohol prohibition) as measured by expenditures by the federal agencies in charge of enforcing prohibition, over the entire period for which murder rates are available on a national basis. His statistical results 'suggest the homicide rate is currently 25%-75% higher than it would be in the absence of drug prohibition.'"

Also we've been instructed, at least here in L.A to not go after people who only deal marijuana. Most of those dudes are snitches anyway.

Mind-numbingly dumb stuff, Agent. http://diamondbar-walnut.patch.com...

I'd debate you on private rights enforcement vs. public law enforcement though. Interested?
Sure, let's tango. It will be interesting to see how you can prove that private law enforcers won't be as corrupt as public.

Okay, my finals are done this Friday. Let's do it Saturday.
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