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To all the enemies of Israel.

suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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5/4/2013 11:53:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
To all the enemies of Israel - I would like to challenge you in to providing a realistic solution to this ongoing Israel-Arab conflict which include the question of:

1.The future of the existence of the State of Israel.
2. The status of the stateless Palestinian refugee.
3. The future of the middle east interstate politic.

. Note that I am talking about solution that can be realistically implement, suppose that your solution to the destiny of Israel is its abolition, you should provide detail on how its foundation - American interest, can permit it.

As an OP I will start with my own case which is in fact, pro-Israel (to serve as an opposing case to whatever solution you are going to provide).

The pro-Israel solution for this conflict is:

Assimilation of the Palestinian state and its homeless refugee in to a new Israel-Palestinian State loosely governed by federal government with both state maintain strong degree of autonomy. The federation will have no right to interfere with domestic issue of both state, thus the Jew can not vote for the Arab or Palestinian member to be expelled or arrested without the authorization from the local government and vise versa. The federal state body will practically act more like European Union rather than United States or Federal State of Germany. the two nations will share defense policy (read: Israel cannot go to war without Palestinian consent), monetary policy (and depending on the economic situation, currency), and they will have completely free flow of labour, investment, and trade just like the EU.

The idea behind this solution is that Israel and Palestinian state has been more or less depend on each other economically already. Many of the newly created Israel settlement had been a very good source of income for many Palestinian refugee who often works in its labour sector. The creation of this interstate union will allow both of its population to capitalize this benefit which in turn could reduce political tension between two races (or one as some source already claim that Palestinian is in fact an original Jew of Jerusalem who convert to Islam).

The creation of this new union will be processed through a referendum in both of the Palestinian states whether they would like to participate in this contract or not. Note that the interstate union will effectively provide solution to the right of return of Palestinian who lost their home during Israel Independent. They can now return to their home which is occupied by the Jew . Although, they will have to buy back the land if it had already been claimed by other owner and depend on the decision of Israeli government, they can be re-integrated as a citizen of Israel as well. The same can also be reversed. The Israeli or Palestinian who commit crime within the jurisdiction of other state will be tried and judged by the local law.

This idea is likely to be accepted by both the Arab and American. After all, it eliminate the need for hostility toward Israel and endless demand of Palestinian refugee . It is also help limit the Israel aggression by having the Palestine sitting on the federal government. Iran might be less please, however, if the Iranian intention is to use nuclear weapon against Israel, this would ultimately involved Palestine and other Arab nations as well. So it is within the interest of every parties to guard against Iranian nuclear threat.

so to sum up, my answers to the three principal question which is stated above are

1. Maintain the existence of the State of Israel, altogether with the Palestinian independent through friendly political union.

2. The right of return shall be granted to the stateless Palestinian refugee, to the degree that will not affect the sovereignty of both Israel and Palestine.

3. the future middle east interstate politic will be moved toward local cooperative with the inclusion of the State of Israel. American, Russia, and other superpower will be reduced, but also in turn, free up their resources to be used else where.

I am awaiting a counter case from anybody who are interested.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/4/2013 7:14:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
No, no, don't you understand? The Jews are living on property that isn't theirs. They need to be eradicated from Palestine and collectively put in mass prisons. The Middle East will never know peace until it is Judenrein.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Thaddeus
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5/4/2013 7:20:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 7:14:04 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
No, no, don't you understand? The Jews are living on property that isn't theirs. They need to be eradicated from Palestine and collectively put in mass prisons. The Middle East will never know peace until it is Judenrein.

After this we can deal with the patriarchy. amiright?
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?
Also, that the Hamas salute is the same as the Nazi salute?

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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5/4/2013 7:42:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 7:14:04 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
No, no, don't you understand? The Jews are living on property that isn't theirs. They need to be eradicated from Germany and collectively put in mass prisons. Europe will never know peace until it is Judenrein.

Fixed.....

By the way "Judenrein" is a term invented by the Nazis during the Holocaust. It means "clean of Jews".
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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5/4/2013 7:50:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Actually, I'm against a lot of the sh!t parts of Israel seem to be pulling, and your solution is a pretty decent one. Ideally, since the United States was so big on it, they'd simply give over part of Montana as an international refugee state, but barring time travel that's kind of impossible now.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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5/4/2013 8:20:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
How about this:

The Holy Land becomes a UN-controlled territory, to be ruled by a council of 3 members of each of the major Abrahamic religions that lay claim over it (Islam, Judaism, Christianity) for a total of 9 members.

Of course, this will never happen, since either side seems to want an "all or nothing" solution.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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5/4/2013 8:21:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?

^ I duno why, but that really strikes me as a brilliant & interesting observation.
Also, that the Hamas salute is the same as the Nazi salute?

No surprise, that's where they got it from.
"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/4/2013 10:05:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 7:50:46 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
Actually, I'm against a lot of the sh!t parts of Israel seem to be pulling, and your solution is a pretty decent one. Ideally, since the United States was so big on it, they'd simply give over part of Montana as an international refugee state, but barring time travel that's kind of impossible now.

You are aware I was being sarcastic, correct?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/4/2013 10:06:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?
Also, that the Hamas salute is the same as the Nazi salute?

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology

The word "Jihad" is much older than Mein Kampf.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/4/2013 10:46:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?

"Jihad" dates back to Muhammad. I'm fairly certain that Islam was invented long before Nazism was.
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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5/4/2013 11:03:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 10:05:14 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/4/2013 7:50:46 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
Actually, I'm against a lot of the sh!t parts of Israel seem to be pulling, and your solution is a pretty decent one. Ideally, since the United States was so big on it, they'd simply give over part of Montana as an international refugee state, but barring time travel that's kind of impossible now.

You are aware I was being sarcastic, correct?

Yes. I'm not. You'll notice I'm not making sweeping generalizations about an entire country, but rather pointing out that it isn't spotless.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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5/4/2013 11:30:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 10:06:31 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?
Also, that the Hamas salute is the same as the Nazi salute?

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology

The word "Jihad" is much older than Mein Kampf.

Never said Mein Kampf came first.....

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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5/4/2013 11:31:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 10:46:04 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?

"Jihad" dates back to Muhammad. I'm fairly certain that Islam was invented long before Nazism was.

Never said Mein Kampf came first.....

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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5/5/2013 1:20:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 8:20:17 PM, drhead wrote:
How about this:

The Holy Land becomes a UN-controlled territory, to be ruled by a council of 3 members of each of the major Abrahamic religions that lay claim over it (Islam, Judaism, Christianity) for a total of 9 members.

Of course, this will never happen, since either side seems to want an "all or nothing" solution.

Assume that they will accept that US control territory solution, how do you think the council member be selected?

And actually religion is a poor criteria for government selection though. Country like Israel is ruled by a secular government, as so the Palestinian Authority, Iran and the rest of the Arab world.. well I don't think they are involved enough to be consider on par with the actual resident of the Israel and Palestine.

I would rather have the council member directly elected or selected from the government in each state to form a ruling council.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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5/6/2013 7:58:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?
Also, that the Hamas salute is the same as the Nazi salute?

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology

+1
slo1
Posts: 4,320
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5/6/2013 11:15:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 11:53:47 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
To all the enemies of Israel - I would like to challenge you in to providing a realistic solution to this ongoing Israel-Arab conflict which include the question of:

1.The future of the existence of the State of Israel.
2. The status of the stateless Palestinian refugee.
3. The future of the middle east interstate politic.

. Note that I am talking about solution that can be realistically implement, suppose that your solution to the destiny of Israel is its abolition, you should provide detail on how its foundation - American interest, can permit it.



As an OP I will start with my own case which is in fact, pro-Israel (to serve as an opposing case to whatever solution you are going to provide).

The pro-Israel solution for this conflict is:

Assimilation of the Palestinian state and its homeless refugee in to a new Israel-Palestinian State loosely governed by federal government with both state maintain strong degree of autonomy. The federation will have no right to interfere with domestic issue of both state, thus the Jew can not vote for the Arab or Palestinian member to be expelled or arrested without the authorization from the local government and vise versa. The federal state body will practically act more like European Union rather than United States or Federal State of Germany. the two nations will share defense policy (read: Israel cannot go to war without Palestinian consent), monetary policy (and depending on the economic situation, currency), and they will have completely free flow of labour, investment, and trade just like the EU.

The idea behind this solution is that Israel and Palestinian state has been more or less depend on each other economically already. Many of the newly created Israel settlement had been a very good source of income for many Palestinian refugee who often works in its labour sector. The creation of this interstate union will allow both of its population to capitalize this benefit which in turn could reduce political tension between two races (or one as some source already claim that Palestinian is in fact an original Jew of Jerusalem who convert to Islam).

The creation of this new union will be processed through a referendum in both of the Palestinian states whether they would like to participate in this contract or not. Note that the interstate union will effectively provide solution to the right of return of Palestinian who lost their home during Israel Independent. They can now return to their home which is occupied by the Jew . Although, they will have to buy back the land if it had already been claimed by other owner and depend on the decision of Israeli government, they can be re-integrated as a citizen of Israel as well. The same can also be reversed. The Israeli or Palestinian who commit crime within the jurisdiction of other state will be tried and judged by the local law.

This idea is likely to be accepted by both the Arab and American. After all, it eliminate the need for hostility toward Israel and endless demand of Palestinian refugee . It is also help limit the Israel aggression by having the Palestine sitting on the federal government. Iran might be less please, however, if the Iranian intention is to use nuclear weapon against Israel, this would ultimately involved Palestine and other Arab nations as well. So it is within the interest of every parties to guard against Iranian nuclear threat.

so to sum up, my answers to the three principal question which is stated above are

1. Maintain the existence of the State of Israel, altogether with the Palestinian independent through friendly political union.

2. The right of return shall be granted to the stateless Palestinian refugee, to the degree that will not affect the sovereignty of both Israel and Palestine.

3. the future middle east interstate politic will be moved toward local cooperative with the inclusion of the State of Israel. American, Russia, and other superpower will be reduced, but also in turn, free up their resources to be used else where.

I am awaiting a counter case from anybody who are interested.

There is no way that Israel or even Palestine would agree to join a Federal union. Their entire existence is dependent upon having a Jewish majority. Also they would never cede the decisions to go to war or defend themselves to a Federal gov where Palestinians are the majority.

I think we have a better shot of having the US be the bad cop and secretly move all religious sites in the region to Somalia, and force Palestinians and Jewish Israeli's to interbreed. Only then may we have peace.
drhead
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5/6/2013 12:15:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 1:20:28 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 5/4/2013 8:20:17 PM, drhead wrote:
How about this:

The Holy Land becomes a UN-controlled territory, to be ruled by a council of 3 members of each of the major Abrahamic religions that lay claim over it (Islam, Judaism, Christianity) for a total of 9 members.

Of course, this will never happen, since either side seems to want an "all or nothing" solution.

Assume that they will accept that US control territory solution, how do you think the council member be selected?

And actually religion is a poor criteria for government selection though. Country like Israel is ruled by a secular government, as so the Palestinian Authority, Iran and the rest of the Arab world.. well I don't think they are involved enough to be consider on par with the actual resident of the Israel and Palestine.

I would rather have the council member directly elected or selected from the government in each state to form a ruling council.

It doesn't have to be religion that is the qualifier, it just has to give people from the different nationalities who claim the holy land some representation.

A better solution might be to make a federation that is more loosely knit than the US, for example, where the capital city would belong to all states equally, and where free travel would be permitted between states for those who have sworn an oath of loyalty to the federation. Draw out specific guidelines for what the federal government can and can't do to prevent any internal conflicts.

The free travel guidelines and the sharing of Jerusalem would be the main things here. After that, there isn't much to fight about.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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5/6/2013 12:21:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 12:15:21 PM, drhead wrote:
At 5/5/2013 1:20:28 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 5/4/2013 8:20:17 PM, drhead wrote:
How about this:

The Holy Land becomes a UN-controlled territory, to be ruled by a council of 3 members of each of the major Abrahamic religions that lay claim over it (Islam, Judaism, Christianity) for a total of 9 members.

Of course, this will never happen, since either side seems to want an "all or nothing" solution.

Assume that they will accept that US control territory solution, how do you think the council member be selected?

And actually religion is a poor criteria for government selection though. Country like Israel is ruled by a secular government, as so the Palestinian Authority, Iran and the rest of the Arab world.. well I don't think they are involved enough to be consider on par with the actual resident of the Israel and Palestine.

I would rather have the council member directly elected or selected from the government in each state to form a ruling council.

It doesn't have to be religion that is the qualifier, it just has to give people from the different nationalities who claim the holy land some representation.

A better solution might be to make a federation that is more loosely knit than the US, for example, where the capital city would belong to all states equally, and where free travel would be permitted between states for those who have sworn an oath of loyalty to the federation. Draw out specific guidelines for what the federal government can and can't do to prevent any internal conflicts.

The free travel guidelines and the sharing of Jerusalem would be the main things here. After that, there isn't much to fight about.

isn't that effectively what I proposed :D
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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5/6/2013 1:06:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 12:15:21 PM, drhead wrote:
At 5/5/2013 1:20:28 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 5/4/2013 8:20:17 PM, drhead wrote:
How about this:

The Holy Land becomes a UN-controlled territory, to be ruled by a council of 3 members of each of the major Abrahamic religions that lay claim over it (Islam, Judaism, Christianity) for a total of 9 members.

Of course, this will never happen, since either side seems to want an "all or nothing" solution.

Assume that they will accept that US control territory solution, how do you think the council member be selected?

And actually religion is a poor criteria for government selection though. Country like Israel is ruled by a secular government, as so the Palestinian Authority, Iran and the rest of the Arab world.. well I don't think they are involved enough to be consider on par with the actual resident of the Israel and Palestine.

I would rather have the council member directly elected or selected from the government in each state to form a ruling council.

It doesn't have to be religion that is the qualifier, it just has to give people from the different nationalities who claim the holy land some representation.

A better solution might be to make a federation that is more loosely knit than the US, for example, where the capital city would belong to all states equally, and where free travel would be permitted between states for those who have sworn an oath of loyalty to the federation. Draw out specific guidelines for what the federal government can and can't do to prevent any internal conflicts.

The free travel guidelines and the sharing of Jerusalem would be the main things here. After that, there isn't much to fight about.

That would be oversimplifying the complexity of the conflict, as there are many other issues such as; mutual recognition, borders, security, water rights, etc.

In fact, before the 6 day war in 1967, East Jerusalem, which is the location of; the western (wailing) wall, Dome of the Rock, al-Aqsa mosque, etc. was in total control of the Lebanese. This did not stop Lebanon (as well as several other Arab countries) from attacking Israel.

A reading of the Hamas charter indicates peace in the middle east will not be a simple task: http://www.mideastweb.org... http://www.investigativeproject.org...
http://www.politics.ie...
http://archive.adl.org...
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/6/2013 4:23:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?
Also, that the Hamas salute is the same as the Nazi salute?
You have a point to make, Ma'am?

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology
Sounds like an introduction to a messed up sci-fi story. Share some more any time.
AtheistGhostbuster07
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5/6/2013 6:40:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm not sure why the choice of title, but it seems you are of the ilk that believe anyone who is critical of Israel is either "anti-semitic" and or an "enemy" of the state?

That aside, you should be commended for your thoughtful and sincere proposal. While I would much prefer to see one state, one vote and equal rights for all, I don't think your ideas are entirely implausible.

In the end it will ultimately be up to the people themselves to get tired of hating and killing each other. I am always the eternal optimist, so I still believe that no matter how long it takes, people eventually evolve to a position that allows for peace. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a real earth shattering event for this evolution to take place...nonetheless it will!

Again, your proposal is both interesting and thoughtful. Thank you for sharing, but please change the title so as not to appear antagonistic.

Sincerely,
GB
DanT
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5/6/2013 7:06:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 4:23:56 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?
Also, that the Hamas salute is the same as the Nazi salute?
You have a point to make, Ma'am?

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology
Sounds like an introduction to a messed up sci-fi story. Share some more any time.

" Participation in this life, according to it the only worthy and blessed life, is what National Socialism, as a political experiment, promises to those who will of their own accord share in this experiment. And now it becomes understandable why, at the point where it meets with resistance, it can only crush and kill"with the might and right which belongs to Divinity! Islam of old as we know proceeded in this way. It is impossible to understand National Socialism unless we see it in fact as a new Islam, its myth as a new Allah, and Hitler as this new Allah"s Prophet." ~ Karl Barth, 1939

"It became clear to me why the average Egyptian worshipped the use of force. Terror was synonymous with power! This was one reason why most Egyptians, regardless of class or calling had admired Nazi Germany. It helped explain the sensational growth of the Ikhwan el Muslimin [Muslim Brotherhood]" ~ John Roy Carlson after interviewing Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna

"I myself have embraced Islam and accepted the new forename Omar Amin, Omar according to the great Caliph Omar who was a grim enemy of the Jews, Amin in honor of my friend Hajj Amin el Husseini, the Grand Mufti." Nazi Propagandist Johannes von Leers, in a 1957 letter to American Nazi H. Keith Thompson
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/6/2013 7:35:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:06:31 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/6/2013 4:23:56 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?
Also, that the Hamas salute is the same as the Nazi salute?
You have a point to make, Ma'am?

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology
Sounds like an introduction to a messed up sci-fi story. Share some more any time.

" Participation in this life, according to it the only worthy and blessed life, is what National Socialism, as a political experiment, promises to those who will of their own accord share in this experiment. And now it becomes understandable why, at the point where it meets with resistance, it can only crush and kill"with the might and right which belongs to Divinity! Islam of old as we know proceeded in this way. It is impossible to understand National Socialism unless we see it in fact as a new Islam, its myth as a new Allah, and Hitler as this new Allah"s Prophet." ~ Karl Barth, 1939


"It became clear to me why the average Egyptian worshipped the use of force. Terror was synonymous with power! This was one reason why most Egyptians, regardless of class or calling had admired Nazi Germany. It helped explain the sensational growth of the Ikhwan el Muslimin [Muslim Brotherhood]" ~ John Roy Carlson after interviewing Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna

"I myself have embraced Islam and accepted the new forename Omar Amin, Omar according to the great Caliph Omar who was a grim enemy of the Jews, Amin in honor of my friend Hajj Amin el Husseini, the Grand Mufti." Nazi Propagandist Johannes von Leers, in a 1957 letter to American Nazi H. Keith Thompson

It is true that quite a bit of the anti-semitic literature and arguments we see in recent decades in the middle-east was most likely imported from nazi sources.

For instance, I don't believe the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were known in those communities until Hitler brought it over.

However, the literature was almost entirely used to channel anti-Zionist/Israeli frustration as opposed to specifically anti-Jewish.
R0b1Billion
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5/7/2013 9:49:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Send the Sham-wow guy over there to use his marketing skills to convince them all to relinquish rights to their land. We can't do this all day, people.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
suttichart.denpruektham
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5/7/2013 10:18:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:06:31 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/6/2013 4:23:56 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?
Also, that the Hamas salute is the same as the Nazi salute?
You have a point to make, Ma'am?

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology
Sounds like an introduction to a messed up sci-fi story. Share some more any time.

" Participation in this life, according to it the only worthy and blessed life, is what National Socialism, as a political experiment, promises to those who will of their own accord share in this experiment. And now it becomes understandable why, at the point where it meets with resistance, it can only crush and kill"with the might and right which belongs to Divinity! Islam of old as we know proceeded in this way. It is impossible to understand National Socialism unless we see it in fact as a new Islam, its myth as a new Allah, and Hitler as this new Allah"s Prophet." ~ Karl Barth, 1939


"It became clear to me why the average Egyptian worshipped the use of force. Terror was synonymous with power! This was one reason why most Egyptians, regardless of class or calling had admired Nazi Germany. It helped explain the sensational growth of the Ikhwan el Muslimin [Muslim Brotherhood]" ~ John Roy Carlson after interviewing Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna

"I myself have embraced Islam and accepted the new forename Omar Amin, Omar according to the great Caliph Omar who was a grim enemy of the Jews, Amin in honor of my friend Hajj Amin el Husseini, the Grand Mufti." Nazi Propagandist Johannes von Leers, in a 1957 letter to American Nazi H. Keith Thompson

Well, Jew is currently an enemy of Arab countries anyway, it came to no surprise if they would come to consider an enemies of their enemies as their friend. I doubt though if this is due to religion foundation or political environment (may be both).
suttichart.denpruektham
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5/7/2013 10:19:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anyway doesn't anybody has any kind of rebuttal or alternate model to offer? Guest I should really put this on a debate instead of forum after all.
DanT
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5/7/2013 10:57:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:35:07 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:06:31 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/6/2013 4:23:56 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/4/2013 7:38:50 PM, DanT wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that "Mein Kampf" translates to "My Struggle", and "Jihad" translates to "Struggle"?
Also, that the Hamas salute is the same as the Nazi salute?
You have a point to make, Ma'am?

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Mohammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future." ~ Carl Jung, founder of analytical psychology
Sounds like an introduction to a messed up sci-fi story. Share some more any time.

" Participation in this life, according to it the only worthy and blessed life, is what National Socialism, as a political experiment, promises to those who will of their own accord share in this experiment. And now it becomes understandable why, at the point where it meets with resistance, it can only crush and kill"with the might and right which belongs to Divinity! Islam of old as we know proceeded in this way. It is impossible to understand National Socialism unless we see it in fact as a new Islam, its myth as a new Allah, and Hitler as this new Allah"s Prophet." ~ Karl Barth, 1939


"It became clear to me why the average Egyptian worshipped the use of force. Terror was synonymous with power! This was one reason why most Egyptians, regardless of class or calling had admired Nazi Germany. It helped explain the sensational growth of the Ikhwan el Muslimin [Muslim Brotherhood]" ~ John Roy Carlson after interviewing Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna

"I myself have embraced Islam and accepted the new forename Omar Amin, Omar according to the great Caliph Omar who was a grim enemy of the Jews, Amin in honor of my friend Hajj Amin el Husseini, the Grand Mufti." Nazi Propagandist Johannes von Leers, in a 1957 letter to American Nazi H. Keith Thompson

It is true that quite a bit of the anti-semitic literature and arguments we see in recent decades in the middle-east was most likely imported from nazi sources.

For instance, I don't believe the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were known in those communities until Hitler brought it over.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion were created by the Russian Secret Police, so technically it was recycled Russian propaganda.
However, the literature was almost entirely used to channel anti-Zionist/Israeli frustration as opposed to specifically anti-Jewish.
I'm getting sick of people using that excuse. "It's not antisemitic it's antizionist"... BS!

The term "Zionism" has lost all meaning, because it is so frequently misused as a front for antisemitic remarks. I've heard people claim "Zionist bankers control wall st", which is just Nazi propaganda with the term "Jew" replaced with "Zionist". The Term "Zionist" has become an ambiguous front for antisemitism, and it is very rarely use correctly anymore.

"Zionism" and "Rothschild" are both terms antisemitic use to hide their antisemitism. I've heard people negatively refer to Jews as "branch members of the Rothschild family", when they have no relation to the Rothschild family. This is why I hate newspeak.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle