Total Posts:20|Showing Posts:1-20
Jump to topic:

Libertarianism/Anarchism/Voluntarism

TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 3:29:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I gotta ask, whats with the rise in these three philosophies? I'm noticing especially more anarchists than what I once was. Which to me is rather strange, that it use to be minimizing the state has now turned into a radical hatred of it. I find this interesting, yet at the same time, somewhat boring now too. Is it just me? Or are these ideas overrated?

This what all the cool kids rage about these days? ;)
Thank you for voting!
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 8:14:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Nah. All the cool kids nowadays are talking about having the importance of minority presidents.

Highly veiled insults ftw!
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 8:51:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 3:29:54 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
I gotta ask, whats with the rise in these three philosophies? I'm noticing especially more anarchists than what I once was. Which to me is rather strange, that it use to be minimizing the state has now turned into a radical hatred of it. I find this interesting, yet at the same time, somewhat boring now too. Is it just me? Or are these ideas overrated?

This what all the cool kids rage about these days? ;)

I was an individualist before it was cool... I got allot of heat from my highshool. (the school and its students were left wing collectivists; conservatives and libertarians were in the minority)
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 8:58:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 8:51:20 AM, DanT wrote:
At 5/9/2013 3:29:54 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
I gotta ask, whats with the rise in these three philosophies? I'm noticing especially more anarchists than what I once was. Which to me is rather strange, that it use to be minimizing the state has now turned into a radical hatred of it. I find this interesting, yet at the same time, somewhat boring now too. Is it just me? Or are these ideas overrated?

This what all the cool kids rage about these days? ;)

I was an individualist before it was cool... I got allot of heat from my highshool. (the school and its students were left wing collectivists; conservatives and libertarians were in the minority)

Sound rather communist, I am surprised that such thing existed in the US too.
leojm
Posts: 1,825
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 9:04:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
First of all I don't know if this is what you guys are talking about but anyway. When I was in high school it was really strange. I would be walking through a hallway to get to class, this is what I saw; Conservatives walked on one side and Liberals walked on the other. Same thing in class; Conservatives sat on the right and Liberals sat on the left. I think they did that to show who is who. I'm a Conservative myself by the way. I'm also in college now too.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 9:10:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 9:04:07 AM, leojm wrote:
First of all I don't know if this is what you guys are talking about but anyway. When I was in high school it was really strange. I would be walking through a hallway to get to class, this is what I saw; Conservatives walked on one side and Liberals walked on the other. Same thing in class; Conservatives sat on the right and Liberals sat on the left. I think they did that to show who is who. I'm a Conservative myself by the way. I'm also in college now too.

I know you're lying - liberals always walk down the middle of the hallway and sit in the middle of the class. That's the thing about liberals - there aren't any, they're always moderates and see both sides and are just generally better people than you and me. They're trying to save the planet while you just get a degree.
This space for rent.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 9:55:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anarchism cannot be reached without the absolute domination of one state. After all a nation state is formed exactly because the old regime of kingdom and empire (as in Holy Roman Empire and not Napoleonic imperial) do not have enough power to function effectively as a sovereign. If our regimes are to reverse back in to old medieval-style regime (with a bit of eve more chaotic democratic republic), the same concept of power struggle and widespread instability will return, that's why it cannot be done unless the use of force and violence is monopolized by a single player, super-state entity.

Without knowing that, anarchism may be a good place to spend excessive youth energy. They said a man who never engage in socialism even once when he is young, is a man without a hearth.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 10:47:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 3:29:54 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
I gotta ask, whats with the rise in these three philosophies? I'm noticing especially more anarchists than what I once was. Which to me is rather strange, that it use to be minimizing the state has now turned into a radical hatred of it. I find this interesting, yet at the same time, somewhat boring now too. Is it just me? Or are these ideas overrated?

This what all the cool kids rage about these days? ;)

Well, usually when you see a more oppressive government, people/intellectuals will lean towards libertarian ism

When you see an extremely libertarian government, all intellectuals will be authoritarian/totalitarian

i.e No one is ever happy.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 10:48:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 9:10:35 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/9/2013 9:04:07 AM, leojm wrote:
First of all I don't know if this is what you guys are talking about but anyway. When I was in high school it was really strange. I would be walking through a hallway to get to class, this is what I saw; Conservatives walked on one side and Liberals walked on the other. Same thing in class; Conservatives sat on the right and Liberals sat on the left. I think they did that to show who is who. I'm a Conservative myself by the way. I'm also in college now too.

I know you're lying - liberals always walk down the middle of the hallway and sit in the middle of the class. That's the thing about liberals - there aren't any, they're always moderates and see both sides and are just generally better people than you and me. They're trying to save the planet while you just get a degree.

Can't tell if you're extremely narcissistic or attempting satire, no offense.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 12:49:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 10:48:32 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 5/9/2013 9:10:35 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/9/2013 9:04:07 AM, leojm wrote:
First of all I don't know if this is what you guys are talking about but anyway. When I was in high school it was really strange. I would be walking through a hallway to get to class, this is what I saw; Conservatives walked on one side and Liberals walked on the other. Same thing in class; Conservatives sat on the right and Liberals sat on the left. I think they did that to show who is who. I'm a Conservative myself by the way. I'm also in college now too.

I know you're lying - liberals always walk down the middle of the hallway and sit in the middle of the class. That's the thing about liberals - there aren't any, they're always moderates and see both sides and are just generally better people than you and me. They're trying to save the planet while you just get a degree.

Can't tell if you're extremely narcissistic or attempting satire, no offense.

It's humor based on the observation that liberals rarely self identify as such. How would you get narcissistic out of that? And no offense taken - I'm conservative myself, I leave getting offended to the libs.
This space for rent.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 2:24:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 12:49:39 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/9/2013 10:48:32 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 5/9/2013 9:10:35 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/9/2013 9:04:07 AM, leojm wrote:
First of all I don't know if this is what you guys are talking about but anyway. When I was in high school it was really strange. I would be walking through a hallway to get to class, this is what I saw; Conservatives walked on one side and Liberals walked on the other. Same thing in class; Conservatives sat on the right and Liberals sat on the left. I think they did that to show who is who. I'm a Conservative myself by the way. I'm also in college now too.

I know you're lying - liberals always walk down the middle of the hallway and sit in the middle of the class. That's the thing about liberals - there aren't any, they're always moderates and see both sides and are just generally better people than you and me. They're trying to save the planet while you just get a degree.

Can't tell if you're extremely narcissistic or attempting satire, no offense.

It's humor based on the observation that liberals rarely self identify as such. How would you get narcissistic out of that? And no offense taken - I'm conservative myself, I leave getting offended to the libs.

I thought you were just a really narcissistic liberal, or being satirical. The point is, you apparently did your satire good enough that for a second I believed you were really a liberal, because liberals are in a lot of cases, narcissistic in the way you stated, that they claim their ideology should not be identified as 'liberal, just as 'common sense'.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 3:34:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 2:24:05 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 5/9/2013 12:49:39 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/9/2013 10:48:32 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 5/9/2013 9:10:35 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/9/2013 9:04:07 AM, leojm wrote:
First of all I don't know if this is what you guys are talking about but anyway. When I was in high school it was really strange. I would be walking through a hallway to get to class, this is what I saw; Conservatives walked on one side and Liberals walked on the other. Same thing in class; Conservatives sat on the right and Liberals sat on the left. I think they did that to show who is who. I'm a Conservative myself by the way. I'm also in college now too.

I know you're lying - liberals always walk down the middle of the hallway and sit in the middle of the class. That's the thing about liberals - there aren't any, they're always moderates and see both sides and are just generally better people than you and me. They're trying to save the planet while you just get a degree.

Can't tell if you're extremely narcissistic or attempting satire, no offense.

It's humor based on the observation that liberals rarely self identify as such. How would you get narcissistic out of that? And no offense taken - I'm conservative myself, I leave getting offended to the libs.


I thought you were just a really narcissistic liberal, or being satirical. The point is, you apparently did your satire good enough that for a second I believed you were really a liberal, because liberals are in a lot of cases, narcissistic in the way you stated, that they claim their ideology should not be identified as 'liberal, just as 'common sense'.

Yeah. Hard to read people across the internet.
This space for rent.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 3:54:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anarchists arise when big government gets increasingly invasive.

If a small government, a Constitutional Republic, minarchist system existed, there would be no Anarchists and if there were, they would be silent cause there's nothing to complain about.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 3:56:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 3:54:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Anarchists arise when big government gets increasingly invasive.

If a minarchist system existed, there would be no Anarchists and if there were, they would be silent cause there's nothing to complain about.

Do you advocate voluntaryist government in which people must consent to be ruled?r do you advocate a government (like the US) that doesn't require or request your consent to extort from you?
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 5:14:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 3:56:26 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/9/2013 3:54:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Anarchists arise when big government gets increasingly invasive.

If a minarchist system existed, there would be no Anarchists and if there were, they would be silent cause there's nothing to complain about.

Do you advocate voluntaryist government in which people must consent to be ruled?

A Minarchist government doesn't rule you, it prevents other groups from ruling you.

Government is like fire.

- A small campfire (small government) provides heat, warmth, comfort and cooking utility to those around it.
- A forest fire (big government) destroys everything it consumes in its proximity.

The Anarchist refuses to understand that fire has utility and isn't inherently bad. Sort of like a vaccine (no mercury) injects you with a small trace of the virus to make your body immune from actual big virus' that are a threat.

Or do you advocate a government (like the US) that doesn't require or request your consent to extort from you?

You're allowed to live off the grid.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 5:50:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 8:58:38 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 5/9/2013 8:51:20 AM, DanT wrote:
At 5/9/2013 3:29:54 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
I gotta ask, whats with the rise in these three philosophies? I'm noticing especially more anarchists than what I once was. Which to me is rather strange, that it use to be minimizing the state has now turned into a radical hatred of it. I find this interesting, yet at the same time, somewhat boring now too. Is it just me? Or are these ideas overrated?

This what all the cool kids rage about these days? ;)

I was an individualist before it was cool... I got allot of heat from my highshool. (the school and its students were left wing collectivists; conservatives and libertarians were in the minority)

Sound rather communist, I am surprised that such thing existed in the US too.

In my propaganda class, senior year, the teacher was openly Marxist; he was the head of the history department, and he tried to indoctrinate us. We did a mock election in his class, and we got to choose our own parties. The parties chosen was;
1.) Green Party
2.) Democratic Party
3.) Progressive Party
I chose the Libertarian party, but no-one else else wanted to join. Eventually 2 people decided to join. The two people who joined didn't know what libertarianism was. I tried to explain it to them, but they didn't get it. The person we chose to run as our president (he was more popular than me) asked what the stance on gay marriage was. I tried to explain to him that libertarians were against government intervention in marriage, but he didn't understand. He than decided to turn the party slogan into "because it feels good", based on gay rights. Needless to say, we ended up losing..>.<
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 6:24:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 3:29:54 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
I gotta ask, whats with the rise in these three philosophies? I'm noticing especially more anarchists than what I once was. Which to me is rather strange, that it use to be minimizing the state has now turned into a radical hatred of it.

Yer saying two things at once here. On the one hand yer saying libertarianism/anarchism/voluntaryism are expanding. On the other hand yer saying people who used to be for minimizing government now hate it (I can only assume you use the word "hate" here because of yer limited exposure to the respective philosophies). But these two propositions don't sit we'll with each other given that libertarianism favors minimizing government, not abolishing it (which is what voluntaryism and anarchism are for). Yer utilizing false equivalence.

I find this interesting, yet at the same time, somewhat boring now too. Is it just me? Or are these ideas overrated?

You can say they're flawed but given the minority rate o acceptance of these ideas calling then overrated is incredibly far fetched.

This what all the cool kids rage about these days? ;)

Is there any reason to think these philosophies (besides libertarianism) are increasing in number besides yer vague anecdotal recollection?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 6:46:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't see these philosophies rising, to be honest.

All I know is that I'm in in the extreme minority politically at my school, where the majority seem to be left wing, a minority is right wing, and an even smaller minority libertarian individualism. That minority consisting of basically me.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Contra
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2013 9:46:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't see these philosophies increasing in popularity much either. If they are, it is because of the prevalence of big government in our society.

And at my school, nobody talks about politics so there are rarely any political confrontations or "ideologies".
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan