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Is it really the Palestinians?

Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/10/2013 3:19:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Article by a Palestinian that I think accurately sums up this whole incessant insanity:

"More than 55,000 Palestinians have been forced to flee Syria to Lebanon and Jordan over the past two years, according to figures released by the United Nations Work and Relief Agency [UNRWA].

According to Palestinian sources, more than 2,000 Palestinians have been killed in Syria, most in recent months, by both the rebels and the Syrian army.

Most of the Palestinians who fled Syria have found shelter in neighboring Lebanon, where more than 500,000 Palestinians live in several refugee camps in different parts of the country.

It is worth noting that Palestinians in Lebanon are subjected to apartheid laws that deny them work, social and health benefits, and freedom of movement.

UNRWA now estimates that approximately 235,000 Palestinians have been displaced inside Syria since the beginning of the conflict two years ago.

Just two weeks ago, some 6,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes in Ein al-Tal, a refugee camp near Aleppo in northern Syria.

This was not the only UNRWA-run refugee camp in Syria to be targeted by both the opposition and forces loyal to President Bashar Assad.

"Ein al-Tal is the latest manifestation of a cycle of catastrophic violence in which the conduct of all parties has transformed refugee camps into theaters of conflict in which heavy weapons are used, resulting in severe suffering for Palestinian civilians," UNRWA said in a statement. "Palestinian refugees in Syria are being killed, injured and displaced in greater numbers than even before."

And what have the Palestinians' two governments " Hamas in the Gaza Strip and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank " done to help the displaced Palestinians? Almost nothing, according to the displaced families.

What have the Arab countries done to help the Palestinians fleeing Syria? Almost nothing.

Neither the Palestinian governments nor the Arab countries has even asked for an emergency UN Security Council session to discuss the new Palestinian tragedy.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is too busy touring the world and fighting with his prime minister, Salam Fayyad.

The Hamas government is too busy inciting Palestinians and preparing for the next wave of terror attacks against Israel.

As for the Arab countries, why should they care about Palestinians when hundreds of Syrians are being killed every day and no one in the Arab world seems to care?

It is no secret that most of the Arab governments despise the Palestinians and continue to treat them as third-class residents and a potential threat to Arabs' national security.

The Arab League foreign ministers who recently met with US Secretary of State John Kerry in Washington did not even bother to raise the issue of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who were forced out of their homes in Syria.

For these ministers and the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, construction in an Israeli settlement in the West Bank is more urgent than the lives of thousands of Palestinians and Syrians.

But it is not only the Arabs and the Palestinian governments who are turning a blind eye to the mass displacement of Palestinians. Human rights organizations and the mainstream media in the West are also ignoring the plight of the Palestinians. This is, after all, a story that lacks an anti-Israel angle."


-[http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org...]
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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5/10/2013 3:35:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 3:19:22 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Article by a Palestinian that I think accurately sums up this whole incessant insanity:

I think there might be some bias there.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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5/10/2013 5:19:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And the fact that Arabs have 14 seats in their 144 seat congress-like legislature, it's one of the only places where they are granted citizenship (Palestinians have been worse off in other areas), and they themselves are committing acts of atrocity seems to be ignored by this article.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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5/10/2013 5:21:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 5:19:19 PM, 16kadams wrote:
And the fact that Arabs have 14 seats in their 144 seat congress-like legislature, it's one of the only places where they are granted citizenship (Palestinians have been worse off in other areas), and they themselves are committing acts of atrocity seems to be ignored by this article.

I meant to comment this on another website/tab. Ignore. I left DDO on this tab and inadvertently posted.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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5/10/2013 9:47:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 3:19:22 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Article by a Palestinian that I think accurately sums up this whole incessant insanity:

"More than 55,000 Palestinians have been forced to flee Syria to Lebanon and Jordan over the past two years, according to figures released by the United Nations Work and Relief Agency [UNRWA].

According to Palestinian sources, more than 2,000 Palestinians have been killed in Syria, most in recent months, by both the rebels and the Syrian army.

Most of the Palestinians who fled Syria have found shelter in neighboring Lebanon, where more than 500,000 Palestinians live in several refugee camps in different parts of the country.

It is worth noting that Palestinians in Lebanon are subjected to apartheid laws that deny them work, social and health benefits, and freedom of movement.

UNRWA now estimates that approximately 235,000 Palestinians have been displaced inside Syria since the beginning of the conflict two years ago.

Just two weeks ago, some 6,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes in Ein al-Tal, a refugee camp near Aleppo in northern Syria.

This was not the only UNRWA-run refugee camp in Syria to be targeted by both the opposition and forces loyal to President Bashar Assad.

"Ein al-Tal is the latest manifestation of a cycle of catastrophic violence in which the conduct of all parties has transformed refugee camps into theaters of conflict in which heavy weapons are used, resulting in severe suffering for Palestinian civilians," UNRWA said in a statement. "Palestinian refugees in Syria are being killed, injured and displaced in greater numbers than even before."

And what have the Palestinians' two governments " Hamas in the Gaza Strip and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank " done to help the displaced Palestinians? Almost nothing, according to the displaced families.

What have the Arab countries done to help the Palestinians fleeing Syria? Almost nothing.

Neither the Palestinian governments nor the Arab countries has even asked for an emergency UN Security Council session to discuss the new Palestinian tragedy.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is too busy touring the world and fighting with his prime minister, Salam Fayyad.

The Hamas government is too busy inciting Palestinians and preparing for the next wave of terror attacks against Israel.

As for the Arab countries, why should they care about Palestinians when hundreds of Syrians are being killed every day and no one in the Arab world seems to care?

It is no secret that most of the Arab governments despise the Palestinians and continue to treat them as third-class residents and a potential threat to Arabs' national security.

The Arab League foreign ministers who recently met with US Secretary of State John Kerry in Washington did not even bother to raise the issue of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who were forced out of their homes in Syria.

For these ministers and the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, construction in an Israeli settlement in the West Bank is more urgent than the lives of thousands of Palestinians and Syrians.

But it is not only the Arabs and the Palestinian governments who are turning a blind eye to the mass displacement of Palestinians. Human rights organizations and the mainstream media in the West are also ignoring the plight of the Palestinians. This is, after all, a story that lacks an anti-Israel angle."


-[http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org...]

+1
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/11/2013 12:04:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 3:19:22 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Article by a Palestinian that I think accurately sums up this whole incessant insanity:

"More than 55,000 Palestinians have been forced to flee Syria to Lebanon and Jordan over the past two years, according to figures released by the United Nations Work and Relief Agency [UNRWA].

According to Palestinian sources, more than 2,000 Palestinians have been killed in Syria, most in recent months, by both the rebels and the Syrian army.

Most of the Palestinians who fled Syria have found shelter in neighboring Lebanon, where more than 500,000 Palestinians live in several refugee camps in different parts of the country.

It is worth noting that Palestinians in Lebanon are subjected to apartheid laws that deny them work, social and health benefits, and freedom of movement.

UNRWA now estimates that approximately 235,000 Palestinians have been displaced inside Syria since the beginning of the conflict two years ago.

Just two weeks ago, some 6,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes in Ein al-Tal, a refugee camp near Aleppo in northern Syria.

This was not the only UNRWA-run refugee camp in Syria to be targeted by both the opposition and forces loyal to President Bashar Assad.

"Ein al-Tal is the latest manifestation of a cycle of catastrophic violence in which the conduct of all parties has transformed refugee camps into theaters of conflict in which heavy weapons are used, resulting in severe suffering for Palestinian civilians," UNRWA said in a statement. "Palestinian refugees in Syria are being killed, injured and displaced in greater numbers than even before."

And what have the Palestinians' two governments " Hamas in the Gaza Strip and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank " done to help the displaced Palestinians? Almost nothing, according to the displaced families.

What have the Arab countries done to help the Palestinians fleeing Syria? Almost nothing.

Neither the Palestinian governments nor the Arab countries has even asked for an emergency UN Security Council session to discuss the new Palestinian tragedy.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is too busy touring the world and fighting with his prime minister, Salam Fayyad.

The Hamas government is too busy inciting Palestinians and preparing for the next wave of terror attacks against Israel.

As for the Arab countries, why should they care about Palestinians when hundreds of Syrians are being killed every day and no one in the Arab world seems to care?

It is no secret that most of the Arab governments despise the Palestinians and continue to treat them as third-class residents and a potential threat to Arabs' national security.

The Arab League foreign ministers who recently met with US Secretary of State John Kerry in Washington did not even bother to raise the issue of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who were forced out of their homes in Syria.

For these ministers and the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, construction in an Israeli settlement in the West Bank is more urgent than the lives of thousands of Palestinians and Syrians.

But it is not only the Arabs and the Palestinian governments who are turning a blind eye to the mass displacement of Palestinians. Human rights organizations and the mainstream media in the West are also ignoring the plight of the Palestinians. This is, after all, a story that lacks an anti-Israel angle."


-[http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org...]

To parrot a quote I see often from our esteemed breath freshener:

tl;dr. ;P

Seriously though, I'm surprised you're posting this. What would be your solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/11/2013 2:32:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 12:04:42 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/10/2013 3:19:22 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Article by a Palestinian that I think accurately sums up this whole incessant insanity:

"More than 55,000 Palestinians have been forced to flee Syria to Lebanon and Jordan over the past two years, according to figures released by the United Nations Work and Relief Agency [UNRWA].

According to Palestinian sources, more than 2,000 Palestinians have been killed in Syria, most in recent months, by both the rebels and the Syrian army.

Most of the Palestinians who fled Syria have found shelter in neighboring Lebanon, where more than 500,000 Palestinians live in several refugee camps in different parts of the country.

It is worth noting that Palestinians in Lebanon are subjected to apartheid laws that deny them work, social and health benefits, and freedom of movement.

UNRWA now estimates that approximately 235,000 Palestinians have been displaced inside Syria since the beginning of the conflict two years ago.

Just two weeks ago, some 6,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes in Ein al-Tal, a refugee camp near Aleppo in northern Syria.

This was not the only UNRWA-run refugee camp in Syria to be targeted by both the opposition and forces loyal to President Bashar Assad.

"Ein al-Tal is the latest manifestation of a cycle of catastrophic violence in which the conduct of all parties has transformed refugee camps into theaters of conflict in which heavy weapons are used, resulting in severe suffering for Palestinian civilians," UNRWA said in a statement. "Palestinian refugees in Syria are being killed, injured and displaced in greater numbers than even before."

And what have the Palestinians' two governments " Hamas in the Gaza Strip and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank " done to help the displaced Palestinians? Almost nothing, according to the displaced families.

What have the Arab countries done to help the Palestinians fleeing Syria? Almost nothing.

Neither the Palestinian governments nor the Arab countries has even asked for an emergency UN Security Council session to discuss the new Palestinian tragedy.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is too busy touring the world and fighting with his prime minister, Salam Fayyad.

The Hamas government is too busy inciting Palestinians and preparing for the next wave of terror attacks against Israel.

As for the Arab countries, why should they care about Palestinians when hundreds of Syrians are being killed every day and no one in the Arab world seems to care?

It is no secret that most of the Arab governments despise the Palestinians and continue to treat them as third-class residents and a potential threat to Arabs' national security.

The Arab League foreign ministers who recently met with US Secretary of State John Kerry in Washington did not even bother to raise the issue of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who were forced out of their homes in Syria.

For these ministers and the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, construction in an Israeli settlement in the West Bank is more urgent than the lives of thousands of Palestinians and Syrians.

But it is not only the Arabs and the Palestinian governments who are turning a blind eye to the mass displacement of Palestinians. Human rights organizations and the mainstream media in the West are also ignoring the plight of the Palestinians. This is, after all, a story that lacks an anti-Israel angle."


-[http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org...]

To parrot a quote I see often from our esteemed breath freshener:

tl;dr. ;P

Seriously though, I'm surprised you're posting this. What would be your solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

I just found it interesting. I'm not well-versed on Israel's strategic necessities. Of course there is no real "solution" in any meaningful sense of the word, only pragmatic buffers. Right now I'm torn between a two-state settlement (in which the Palestine would essentially be an Israeli vassal state) or Naftali Bennett's annexation scenario: http://www.onestateisrael.com...
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/11/2013 5:06:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 5:19:19 PM, 16kadams wrote:
And the fact that Arabs have 14 seats in their 144 seat congress-like legislature, it's one of the only places where they are granted citizenship (Palestinians have been worse off in other areas), and they themselves are committing acts of atrocity seems to be ignored by this article.

Palestinians are not Arabs. They are descendants of the Caananites; this has been proven through DNA analysis. This is why the Arab world does not care for them. Also, they are only attacking Israel in self-defense; their homes, land, and food have been taken, and Israel has set up a blockade and is cutting off water access, bulldozing the few homes that are left in the area, and chopping down the olive trees that belong to Palestinians to deprive them of their livelihood.
royalpaladin
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5/11/2013 5:08:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Since everyone is focusing on the rockets, the Palestinians should copy MLK and undercut all of the "justification" for bombing them.
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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5/11/2013 5:35:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 2:32:20 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/11/2013 12:04:42 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/10/2013 3:19:22 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Article by a Palestinian that I think accurately sums up this whole incessant insanity:

"More than 55,000 Palestinians have been forced to flee Syria to Lebanon and Jordan over the past two years, according to figures released by the United Nations Work and Relief Agency [UNRWA].

According to Palestinian sources, more than 2,000 Palestinians have been killed in Syria, most in recent months, by both the rebels and the Syrian army.

Most of the Palestinians who fled Syria have found shelter in neighboring Lebanon, where more than 500,000 Palestinians live in several refugee camps in different parts of the country.

It is worth noting that Palestinians in Lebanon are subjected to apartheid laws that deny them work, social and health benefits, and freedom of movement.

UNRWA now estimates that approximately 235,000 Palestinians have been displaced inside Syria since the beginning of the conflict two years ago.

Just two weeks ago, some 6,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes in Ein al-Tal, a refugee camp near Aleppo in northern Syria.

This was not the only UNRWA-run refugee camp in Syria to be targeted by both the opposition and forces loyal to President Bashar Assad.

"Ein al-Tal is the latest manifestation of a cycle of catastrophic violence in which the conduct of all parties has transformed refugee camps into theaters of conflict in which heavy weapons are used, resulting in severe suffering for Palestinian civilians," UNRWA said in a statement. "Palestinian refugees in Syria are being killed, injured and displaced in greater numbers than even before."

And what have the Palestinians' two governments " Hamas in the Gaza Strip and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank " done to help the displaced Palestinians? Almost nothing, according to the displaced families.

What have the Arab countries done to help the Palestinians fleeing Syria? Almost nothing.

Neither the Palestinian governments nor the Arab countries has even asked for an emergency UN Security Council session to discuss the new Palestinian tragedy.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is too busy touring the world and fighting with his prime minister, Salam Fayyad.

The Hamas government is too busy inciting Palestinians and preparing for the next wave of terror attacks against Israel.

As for the Arab countries, why should they care about Palestinians when hundreds of Syrians are being killed every day and no one in the Arab world seems to care?

It is no secret that most of the Arab governments despise the Palestinians and continue to treat them as third-class residents and a potential threat to Arabs' national security.

The Arab League foreign ministers who recently met with US Secretary of State John Kerry in Washington did not even bother to raise the issue of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who were forced out of their homes in Syria.

For these ministers and the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, construction in an Israeli settlement in the West Bank is more urgent than the lives of thousands of Palestinians and Syrians.

But it is not only the Arabs and the Palestinian governments who are turning a blind eye to the mass displacement of Palestinians. Human rights organizations and the mainstream media in the West are also ignoring the plight of the Palestinians. This is, after all, a story that lacks an anti-Israel angle."


-[http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org...]

To parrot a quote I see often from our esteemed breath freshener:

tl;dr. ;P

Seriously though, I'm surprised you're posting this. What would be your solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

I just found it interesting. I'm not well-versed on Israel's strategic necessities. Of course there is no real "solution" in any meaningful sense of the word, only pragmatic buffers. Right now I'm torn between a two-state settlement (in which the Palestine would essentially be an Israeli vassal state) or Naftali Bennett's annexation scenario: http://www.onestateisrael.com...

The Naftali Bennett's 'solution' would be illegal. I don't think its even possible. It's straight up populist. 'Palestinians don't have rights, it's sad. But that's the reality. Recognize it and we'll move forward. Let's 'annex' the area, but we wont call it annexation. That'll be the only way to provide stability.'

Yeah right.

I think the two state solution is the best possible alternate reality today. I was a little let down by the Israeli reaction to Palestinian acceptance into GA as an observer state. It was expected, granted, but still :/

They should just stick to their words, and see it through. But there's so much political mileage to be gained, on both sides, the political will to a solution is missing. Even the Palestinians make a lot of empty noise, but I kind of expect a little more from Israel.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/11/2013 1:04:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 5:06:01 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/10/2013 5:19:19 PM, 16kadams wrote:
And the fact that Arabs have 14 seats in their 144 seat congress-like legislature, it's one of the only places where they are granted citizenship (Palestinians have been worse off in other areas), and they themselves are committing acts of atrocity seems to be ignored by this article.

Palestinians are not Arabs. They are descendants of the Caananites; this has been proven through DNA analysis. This is why the Arab world does not care for them.

No, they are not. "Arab" is an ethnolinguistic group. They speak Arabic, look like Arabs, and have the same religion as all the other Arabs. My doctor was an Arab in Israel, so kindly don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. They are the descendents of the Jews and Samaritans who remained in Israel and converted to Islam.

inb4 you cite a fringe study that takes me two seconds to refute and claim it proves that the Palestinians have a united background despite zero historical or archaeological evidence in support of your position.

Stop inventing people out of thin air. You remind of the Nazis claiming that the Spartans had the purest "Aryan blood," and that is why Spartans were such effective fighters. Please give me even the slightest scrap of evidence, by any historian, anthropologist, or scholar, that the reason the Arabs don't like Palestinians is because they are Canaanites.

Also, they are only attacking Israel in self-defense; their homes, land, and food have been taken, and Israel has set up a blockade and is cutting off water access, bulldozing the few homes that are left in the area, and chopping down the olive trees that belong to Palestinians to deprive them of their livelihood.

No, they don't. You might notice that the economy and living standards of the West Bank was steadily increasing under Israeli rule until the Second Intifada (and that Israeli businesses are losing more money than the Palestinian ones because of the blockade).

Again, I don't need to go over all the evidence because you aren't interested in genuine debate. I'll just give you this line from Benny Morris, who is almost universally considered the most objective and impartial historian of the Israel-Palestine conflict: "I don't see the suicide bombings as isolated acts. They express the deep will of the Palestinian people. That is what the majority of the Palestinians want. They want what happened to the bus to happen to all of us."
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
1Devilsadvocate
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5/11/2013 11:10:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Zuheir Mohsen (1936 " 1979) a Palestinian leader of as-Sa'iqa faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO):

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
http://en.wikiquote.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.wnd.com...
http://books.google.com... - Page 390
http://www.americanthinker.com...
http://www.sodahead.com...
http://www.danielpipes.org...

"This fact is also clearly expressed in the covenant of Fatah,
the ruling faction of the PLO:
http://www.fateh.net...

The Movement's Essential Principles:
Article (1) Palestine is part of the Arab World, and the
Palestinian people are part of the Arab Nation, and their
struggle is part of its struggle."

http://www.danielpipes.org...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1835 Alphonse de Lamartine, wrote : "...a complete eternal silence reigns in the town, on the highways, in the country ... the tomb of a whole people" (Recollections of the East, Vol. I, p. 308)

A contemporary German encyclopedia (Brockhaus, "Allegmeine deutsche Real- Encyklopaidie", Vol. VIII, p. 206, Leipzig, 1827) calls Palestine "desolate and roamed through by Arab robber-bands."

In the 1860's Mark Twain wrote "Innocents Abroad". It was the best selling of Twain's works during his lifetime and one of the best selling travel books of all time. In it Twain writes about different places he visited including Israel. In CHAPTER XLVI- LVII he discusses Israel describing it as " unpeopled deserts, these rusty mounds of bareness", " A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action"

http://www.gutenberg.org...

"Desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds - a silent mournful expanse ... We reached Tabor safely ... We never saw a human being on the whole route" (p. 451, 480); "There is not a solitary village throughout its (the Jezreel Valley's) whole extent - not for thirty miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride ten miles, hereabouts, and not see ten human beings" (p. 448); "Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren ... the valleys are unsightly deserts... It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land... Palestine is desolate and unlovely... Palestine is no more of this workday world. It is sacred to poetry and tradition - it is dreamland" (pp. 564, 567)
http://www.conservapedia.com...

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org...

https://www.google.com...
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/11/2013 11:46:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 5:35:56 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/11/2013 2:32:20 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/11/2013 12:04:42 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/10/2013 3:19:22 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Article by a Palestinian that I think accurately sums up this whole incessant insanity:

"More than 55,000 Palestinians have been forced to flee Syria to Lebanon and Jordan over the past two years, according to figures released by the United Nations Work and Relief Agency [UNRWA].

According to Palestinian sources, more than 2,000 Palestinians have been killed in Syria, most in recent months, by both the rebels and the Syrian army.

Most of the Palestinians who fled Syria have found shelter in neighboring Lebanon, where more than 500,000 Palestinians live in several refugee camps in different parts of the country.

It is worth noting that Palestinians in Lebanon are subjected to apartheid laws that deny them work, social and health benefits, and freedom of movement.

UNRWA now estimates that approximately 235,000 Palestinians have been displaced inside Syria since the beginning of the conflict two years ago.

Just two weeks ago, some 6,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes in Ein al-Tal, a refugee camp near Aleppo in northern Syria.

This was not the only UNRWA-run refugee camp in Syria to be targeted by both the opposition and forces loyal to President Bashar Assad.

"Ein al-Tal is the latest manifestation of a cycle of catastrophic violence in which the conduct of all parties has transformed refugee camps into theaters of conflict in which heavy weapons are used, resulting in severe suffering for Palestinian civilians," UNRWA said in a statement. "Palestinian refugees in Syria are being killed, injured and displaced in greater numbers than even before."

And what have the Palestinians' two governments " Hamas in the Gaza Strip and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank " done to help the displaced Palestinians? Almost nothing, according to the displaced families.

What have the Arab countries done to help the Palestinians fleeing Syria? Almost nothing.

Neither the Palestinian governments nor the Arab countries has even asked for an emergency UN Security Council session to discuss the new Palestinian tragedy.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is too busy touring the world and fighting with his prime minister, Salam Fayyad.

The Hamas government is too busy inciting Palestinians and preparing for the next wave of terror attacks against Israel.

As for the Arab countries, why should they care about Palestinians when hundreds of Syrians are being killed every day and no one in the Arab world seems to care?

It is no secret that most of the Arab governments despise the Palestinians and continue to treat them as third-class residents and a potential threat to Arabs' national security.

The Arab League foreign ministers who recently met with US Secretary of State John Kerry in Washington did not even bother to raise the issue of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who were forced out of their homes in Syria.

For these ministers and the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, construction in an Israeli settlement in the West Bank is more urgent than the lives of thousands of Palestinians and Syrians.

But it is not only the Arabs and the Palestinian governments who are turning a blind eye to the mass displacement of Palestinians. Human rights organizations and the mainstream media in the West are also ignoring the plight of the Palestinians. This is, after all, a story that lacks an anti-Israel angle."


-[http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org...]

To parrot a quote I see often from our esteemed breath freshener:

tl;dr. ;P

Seriously though, I'm surprised you're posting this. What would be your solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

I just found it interesting. I'm not well-versed on Israel's strategic necessities. Of course there is no real "solution" in any meaningful sense of the word, only pragmatic buffers. Right now I'm torn between a two-state settlement (in which the Palestine would essentially be an Israeli vassal state) or Naftali Bennett's annexation scenario: http://www.onestateisrael.com...

The Naftali Bennett's 'solution' would be illegal.

Of course it would be. That doesn't imply that doing so wouldn't be the best and most effective way of controlling the conflict. Just law, by definition, conforms to moral imperatives. Taking the Golan Heights was illegal, yet it's pretty critical to Israel strategically. These laws are selectively applied- if Israel's occupation of the West Bank is illegal, why isn't anybody boycotting China for occupying the vastly larger Tibet? What about Russia's occupation of Chechnya or Indonesia's occupation of East Timur? It's pretty hard to defend the law when it is applied to such ridiculous things. I see them as diplomatic and political tools, not legitimate standards, and I don't expect proportionate enforcement from it.

I don't think its even possible. It's straight up populist. 'Palestinians don't have rights, it's sad. But that's the reality. Recognize it and we'll move forward. Let's 'annex' the area, but we wont call it annexation. That'll be the only way to provide stability.'

Did you read the proposal? I don't understand where this is coming from. He is proposing that they annex key portions of the West Bank and grant the Palestinians autonomy (they would have their own elections, judicial system, etc without any IDF checkpoints in their territory).

I think the two state solution is the best possible alternate reality today. I was a little let down by the Israeli reaction to Palestinian acceptance into GA as an observer state. It was expected, granted, but still :/

Israel should have voted for statehood. It wouldn't have changed the outcome, but it would have put a completely different spin on it.

They should just stick to their words, and see it through. But there's so much political mileage to be gained, on both sides, the political will to a solution is missing. Even the Palestinians make a lot of empty noise, but I kind of expect a little more from Israel.

Israel isn't anxious to disrupt the status quo. Imagine if they left the West Bank and a Hamas-type organization took over?

Anyway, the majority of the Palestinians are conditioned to resist the Israeli usurpers and they demand the right of return, which would demographically destroy Israel. Mahmoud Abbas knows that's impossible; he isn't stupid, and he tried to concede it to the Israelis, but he was forced to reiterate his position after there was public backlash against him. They simply don't want a fair agreement.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/11/2013 11:47:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 11:10:56 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Zuheir Mohsen (1936 " 1979) a Palestinian leader of as-Sa'iqa faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO):

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
http://en.wikiquote.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.wnd.com...
http://books.google.com... - Page 390
http://www.americanthinker.com...
http://www.sodahead.com...
http://www.danielpipes.org...

"This fact is also clearly expressed in the covenant of Fatah,
the ruling faction of the PLO:
http://www.fateh.net...

The Movement's Essential Principles:
Article (1) Palestine is part of the Arab World, and the
Palestinian people are part of the Arab Nation, and their
struggle is part of its struggle."

http://www.danielpipes.org...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1835 Alphonse de Lamartine, wrote : "...a complete eternal silence reigns in the town, on the highways, in the country ... the tomb of a whole people" (Recollections of the East, Vol. I, p. 308)

A contemporary German encyclopedia (Brockhaus, "Allegmeine deutsche Real- Encyklopaidie", Vol. VIII, p. 206, Leipzig, 1827) calls Palestine "desolate and roamed through by Arab robber-bands."

In the 1860's Mark Twain wrote "Innocents Abroad". It was the best selling of Twain's works during his lifetime and one of the best selling travel books of all time. In it Twain writes about different places he visited including Israel. In CHAPTER XLVI- LVII he discusses Israel describing it as " unpeopled deserts, these rusty mounds of bareness", " A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action"

http://www.gutenberg.org...

"Desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds - a silent mournful expanse ... We reached Tabor safely ... We never saw a human being on the whole route" (p. 451, 480); "There is not a solitary village throughout its (the Jezreel Valley's) whole extent - not for thirty miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride ten miles, hereabouts, and not see ten human beings" (p. 448); "Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren ... the valleys are unsightly deserts... It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land... Palestine is desolate and unlovely... Palestine is no more of this workday world. It is sacred to poetry and tradition - it is dreamland" (pp. 564, 567)
http://www.conservapedia.com...

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org...

https://www.google.com...

Ugh.. Conservapedia? Really?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Cermank
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5/12/2013 5:50:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 11:46:08 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/11/2013 5:35:56 AM, Cermank wrote:

The Naftali Bennett's 'solution' would be illegal.

Of course it would be. That doesn't imply that doing so wouldn't be the best and most effective way of controlling the conflict. Just law, by definition, conforms to moral imperatives. Taking the Golan Heights was illegal, yet it's pretty critical to Israel strategically. These laws are selectively applied- if Israel's occupation of the West Bank is illegal, why isn't anybody boycotting China for occupying the vastly larger Tibet? What about Russia's occupation of Chechnya or Indonesia's occupation of East Timur? It's pretty hard to defend the law when it is applied to such ridiculous things. I see them as diplomatic and political tools, not legitimate standards, and I don't expect proportionate enforcement from it.

I don't think its even possible. It's straight up populist. 'Palestinians don't have rights, it's sad. But that's the reality. Recognize it and we'll move forward. Let's 'annex' the area, but we wont call it annexation. That'll be the only way to provide stability.'

Did you read the proposal? I don't understand where this is coming from. He is proposing that they annex key portions of the West Bank and grant the Palestinians autonomy (they would have their own elections, judicial system, etc without any IDF checkpoints in their territory).

I was commenting on Naftali. His proposal completely disregards Palestine. This isn't a game, you have to consider various geopolitical players APART from yourself. Even disregarding the fact that this proposal would turn even the hardcore allies against Israel, this is completely against the policies he proposed himself. He said that he intends to move 'beyond the Israel Palestine issue, because the issue isn't going anywhere and is making a hostage out of Israel', and then comes around and lays this plan.

I mean, the proposal is a danger to the very legitimacy of its claims.

He knows its illegal. That's what the point is. If he's volunteering rushing into the area and annexing it, it's going to result in a lot of bloodshed, knowing the Palestinians. And that would not be uninitiated.


I think the two state solution is the best possible alternate reality today. I was a little let down by the Israeli reaction to Palestinian acceptance into GA as an observer state. It was expected, granted, but still :/

Israel should have voted for statehood. It wouldn't have changed the outcome, but it would have put a completely different spin on it.

I know.:/ This was one of the window I think Israel missed.

They should just stick to their words, and see it through. But there's so much political mileage to be gained, on both sides, the political will to a solution is missing. Even the Palestinians make a lot of empty noise, but I kind of expect a little more from Israel.

Israel isn't anxious to disrupt the status quo. Imagine if they left the West Bank and a Hamas-type organization took over?

Anyway, the majority of the Palestinians are conditioned to resist the Israeli usurpers and they demand the right of return, which would demographically destroy Israel. Mahmoud Abbas knows that's impossible; he isn't stupid, and he tried to concede it to the Israelis, but he was forced to reiterate his position after there was public backlash against him. They simply don't want a fair agreement.

This is true. But then there's the problem of Israel sending out mixed signals. One minute they are for the two state solution, the next minute they're not. I think they should first move beyond the conflict, estabilish some resemblance to some kind of a normal working relation, and then talk of Israel Palestine.

No solution would be reached when there's so much to be gained from not reaching a solution. Beating a dead horse is a classic political strategy, after all.
Cermank
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5/12/2013 5:55:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think this is Bennett summarised:

Anyway but you said: One settler we were having lunch with, in Eli I think, and she was telling us about the Palestinians, and I remember saying to her they would probably find it a little patronizing, what she was saying about liking them and I said they"d want them to have rights of their own. And you jumped in and said, "They can"t, unfortunately. It"s a tragedy."

Right.

Which was just: straight up.

Look. I"ll tell you. It"s just not going to happen. We"re now very near 400,000 Israelis in Judea and Samaria. I tell you, when I travel abroad or read a magazine" it"s obvious to me that it"s a fait accompli and there"s going to be a Palestinian state. But when I spend half a day in the field, it"s obvious there"s never going to be a Palestinian state. And this paradox is going to be the source of the friction. Whether you want it or not " I"m not even going into all the arguments why it"s good, why it"s not good " it"s just not going to happen. It"s not going to happen because we don"t have partner. It"s not going to happen because no one"s going to expel 200,000 Israelis, or 160,000, which is the most minimal plan. So it"s time to rethink. I"ve been meeting ambassadors of most of the Western countries over the last few months, and I tell them, "Listen, I"m not going to argue whether it"s good or bad, I"m just: assume for a moment, let"s hypothesize, let"s say it"s not going to happen. What do you do? Are we going to keep bashing our heads against the wall, or are we going to try to figure out some form of imperfect reality? But stable. Or do we try to enforce illusions on reality and bring about another round of violence?" Which is what happened already several times. I"m not suggesting that this plan is the only possible plan. There"s a few others. I"m open, we"re all open. But what I urge the West is to think openly about this. And I regret Netanyahu"s profound mistake in accepting a two-state or a Palestinian state" If you say you support a Palestinian state, then you can"t be surprised if everyone"s pressuring you to do it. In my experience, I lived in America quite a few years, it"s okay to disagree but be straight, say what you mean, and this I think increasingly represents the mainstream Israel. Very few Israelis think there"s going to be an agreement with the Palestinians. That"s why the left wing is so weak and miserable.

Read more: http://world.time.com...
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/12/2013 6:06:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 5:50:39 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/11/2013 11:46:08 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/11/2013 5:35:56 AM, Cermank wrote:

The Naftali Bennett's 'solution' would be illegal.

Of course it would be. That doesn't imply that doing so wouldn't be the best and most effective way of controlling the conflict. Just law, by definition, conforms to moral imperatives. Taking the Golan Heights was illegal, yet it's pretty critical to Israel strategically. These laws are selectively applied- if Israel's occupation of the West Bank is illegal, why isn't anybody boycotting China for occupying the vastly larger Tibet? What about Russia's occupation of Chechnya or Indonesia's occupation of East Timur? It's pretty hard to defend the law when it is applied to such ridiculous things. I see them as diplomatic and political tools, not legitimate standards, and I don't expect proportionate enforcement from it.

I don't think its even possible. It's straight up populist. 'Palestinians don't have rights, it's sad. But that's the reality. Recognize it and we'll move forward. Let's 'annex' the area, but we wont call it annexation. That'll be the only way to provide stability.'

Did you read the proposal? I don't understand where this is coming from. He is proposing that they annex key portions of the West Bank and grant the Palestinians autonomy (they would have their own elections, judicial system, etc without any IDF checkpoints in their territory).

I was commenting on Naftali. His proposal completely disregards Palestine. This isn't a game, you have to consider various geopolitical players APART from yourself. Even disregarding the fact that this proposal would turn even the hardcore allies against Israel, this is completely against the policies he proposed himself. He said that he intends to move 'beyond the Israel Palestine issue, because the issue isn't going anywhere and is making a hostage out of Israel', and then comes around and lays this plan.

Palestine is a divided and controlled geopolitical entity, and I doubt that this would seriously undermine support in America, who have thought of the West Bank and Jerusalem as part of Israel for decades.

I mean, the proposal is a danger to the very legitimacy of its claims.

He knows its illegal. That's what the point is. If he's volunteering rushing into the area and annexing it, it's going to result in a lot of bloodshed, knowing the Palestinians. And that would not be uninitiated.

Possibly, but again, the Palestinians who are part of the annexation will receive Israeli citizenship while those who aren't will be free of the occupation and checkpoints and will be contained. I sincerely doubt that they are a real strategic threat to Israel.


I think the two state solution is the best possible alternate reality today. I was a little let down by the Israeli reaction to Palestinian acceptance into GA as an observer state. It was expected, granted, but still :/

Israel should have voted for statehood. It wouldn't have changed the outcome, but it would have put a completely different spin on it.

I know.:/ This was one of the window I think Israel missed.

They should just stick to their words, and see it through. But there's so much political mileage to be gained, on both sides, the political will to a solution is missing. Even the Palestinians make a lot of empty noise, but I kind of expect a little more from Israel.

Israel isn't anxious to disrupt the status quo. Imagine if they left the West Bank and a Hamas-type organization took over?

Anyway, the majority of the Palestinians are conditioned to resist the Israeli usurpers and they demand the right of return, which would demographically destroy Israel. Mahmoud Abbas knows that's impossible; he isn't stupid, and he tried to concede it to the Israelis, but he was forced to reiterate his position after there was public backlash against him. They simply don't want a fair agreement.

This is true. But then there's the problem of Israel sending out mixed signals. One minute they are for the two state solution, the next minute they're not. I think they should first move beyond the conflict, estabilish some resemblance to some kind of a normal working relation, and then talk of Israel Palestine.

There is no working relation. The Palestinians are split between Hamas and Fatah, and Fatah's leaders are corrupt and illegitimate. The Arab world isn't really interested in the Palestinians.

No solution would be reached when there's so much to be gained from not reaching a solution. Beating a dead horse is a classic political strategy, after all.

Agreed. The Levant has always been a zero-game for survival. Israel's military leaders analogize Israel's frequent wars to "mowing the lawn."
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
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5/12/2013 6:09:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 5:55:38 AM, Cermank wrote:
I think this is Bennett summarised:

Anyway but you said: One settler we were having lunch with, in Eli I think, and she was telling us about the Palestinians, and I remember saying to her they would probably find it a little patronizing, what she was saying about liking them and I said they"d want them to have rights of their own. And you jumped in and said, "They can"t, unfortunately. It"s a tragedy."

Right.

Which was just: straight up.

Look. I"ll tell you. It"s just not going to happen. We"re now very near 400,000 Israelis in Judea and Samaria. I tell you, when I travel abroad or read a magazine" it"s obvious to me that it"s a fait accompli and there"s going to be a Palestinian state. But when I spend half a day in the field, it"s obvious there"s never going to be a Palestinian state. And this paradox is going to be the source of the friction. Whether you want it or not " I"m not even going into all the arguments why it"s good, why it"s not good " it"s just not going to happen. It"s not going to happen because we don"t have partner. It"s not going to happen because no one"s going to expel 200,000 Israelis, or 160,000, which is the most minimal plan. So it"s time to rethink. I"ve been meeting ambassadors of most of the Western countries over the last few months, and I tell them, "Listen, I"m not going to argue whether it"s good or bad, I"m just: assume for a moment, let"s hypothesize, let"s say it"s not going to happen. What do you do? Are we going to keep bashing our heads against the wall, or are we going to try to figure out some form of imperfect reality? But stable. Or do we try to enforce illusions on reality and bring about another round of violence?" Which is what happened already several times. I"m not suggesting that this plan is the only possible plan. There"s a few others. I"m open, we"re all open. But what I urge the West is to think openly about this. And I regret Netanyahu"s profound mistake in accepting a two-state or a Palestinian state" If you say you support a Palestinian state, then you can"t be surprised if everyone"s pressuring you to do it. In my experience, I lived in America quite a few years, it"s okay to disagree but be straight, say what you mean, and this I think increasingly represents the mainstream Israel. Very few Israelis think there"s going to be an agreement with the Palestinians. That"s why the left wing is so weak and miserable.



Read more: http://world.time.com...

No, did you read the link I gave which detailed the actual annexation plan?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
1Devilsadvocate
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5/12/2013 12:09:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 11:47:16 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/11/2013 11:10:56 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Zuheir Mohsen (1936 " 1979) a Palestinian leader of as-Sa'iqa faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO):

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
http://en.wikiquote.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.wnd.com...
http://books.google.com... - Page 390
http://www.americanthinker.com...
http://www.sodahead.com...
http://www.danielpipes.org...

"This fact is also clearly expressed in the covenant of Fatah,
the ruling faction of the PLO:
http://www.fateh.net...

The Movement's Essential Principles:
Article (1) Palestine is part of the Arab World, and the
Palestinian people are part of the Arab Nation, and their
struggle is part of its struggle."

http://www.danielpipes.org...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1835 Alphonse de Lamartine, wrote : "...a complete eternal silence reigns in the town, on the highways, in the country ... the tomb of a whole people" (Recollections of the East, Vol. I, p. 308)

A contemporary German encyclopedia (Brockhaus, "Allegmeine deutsche Real- Encyklopaidie", Vol. VIII, p. 206, Leipzig, 1827) calls Palestine "desolate and roamed through by Arab robber-bands."

In the 1860's Mark Twain wrote "Innocents Abroad". It was the best selling of Twain's works during his lifetime and one of the best selling travel books of all time. In it Twain writes about different places he visited including Israel. In CHAPTER XLVI- LVII he discusses Israel describing it as " unpeopled deserts, these rusty mounds of bareness", " A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action"

http://www.gutenberg.org...

"Desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds - a silent mournful expanse ... We reached Tabor safely ... We never saw a human being on the whole route" (p. 451, 480); "There is not a solitary village throughout its (the Jezreel Valley's) whole extent - not for thirty miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride ten miles, hereabouts, and not see ten human beings" (p. 448); "Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren ... the valleys are unsightly deserts... It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land... Palestine is desolate and unlovely... Palestine is no more of this workday world. It is sacred to poetry and tradition - it is dreamland" (pp. 564, 567)
http://www.conservapedia.com...

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org...

https://www.google.com...

Ugh.. Conservapedia? Really?

It's just quoting Twain, sorry for not making that clear.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Cermank
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5/12/2013 3:44:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 6:09:19 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/12/2013 5:55:38 AM, Cermank wrote:
I think this is Bennett summarised:

Anyway but you said: One settler we were having lunch with, in Eli I think, and she was telling us about the Palestinians, and I remember saying to her they would probably find it a little patronizing, what she was saying about liking them and I said they"d want them to have rights of their own. And you jumped in and said, "They can"t, unfortunately. It"s a tragedy."

Right.

Which was just: straight up.

Look. I"ll tell you. It"s just not going to happen. We"re now very near 400,000 Israelis in Judea and Samaria. I tell you, when I travel abroad or read a magazine" it"s obvious to me that it"s a fait accompli and there"s going to be a Palestinian state. But when I spend half a day in the field, it"s obvious there"s never going to be a Palestinian state. And this paradox is going to be the source of the friction. Whether you want it or not " I"m not even going into all the arguments why it"s good, why it"s not good " it"s just not going to happen. It"s not going to happen because we don"t have partner. It"s not going to happen because no one"s going to expel 200,000 Israelis, or 160,000, which is the most minimal plan. So it"s time to rethink. I"ve been meeting ambassadors of most of the Western countries over the last few months, and I tell them, "Listen, I"m not going to argue whether it"s good or bad, I"m just: assume for a moment, let"s hypothesize, let"s say it"s not going to happen. What do you do? Are we going to keep bashing our heads against the wall, or are we going to try to figure out some form of imperfect reality? But stable. Or do we try to enforce illusions on reality and bring about another round of violence?" Which is what happened already several times. I"m not suggesting that this plan is the only possible plan. There"s a few others. I"m open, we"re all open. But what I urge the West is to think openly about this. And I regret Netanyahu"s profound mistake in accepting a two-state or a Palestinian state" If you say you support a Palestinian state, then you can"t be surprised if everyone"s pressuring you to do it. In my experience, I lived in America quite a few years, it"s okay to disagree but be straight, say what you mean, and this I think increasingly represents the mainstream Israel. Very few Israelis think there"s going to be an agreement with the Palestinians. That"s why the left wing is so weak and miserable.



Read more: http://world.time.com...

No, did you read the link I gave which detailed the actual annexation plan?

Yes I did, Eitan. Believe it or not, Id actually heard about Bennett before you posted his plan on this obscure thread on the site.

I've read his plan before too.
Eitan_Zohar
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5/12/2013 3:50:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 12:09:13 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
It's just quoting Twain, sorry for not making that clear.

Oh, well, Twain was engaging in hyperbole, actually.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
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5/12/2013 3:52:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 3:44:36 PM, Cermank wrote:
Yes I did, Eitan. Believe it or not, Id actually heard about Bennett before you posted his plan on this obscure thread on the site.

I've read his plan before too.

I assumed you would have. But your argument doesn't seem to deal with anything he proposed.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
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5/12/2013 3:54:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anyway, I'm not totally on board with it. I'm just interested in whatever works. I don't care if we never have a 'Greater Israel.'
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Takwa
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5/13/2013 2:58:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 5:06:01 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/10/2013 5:19:19 PM, 16kadams wrote:
And the fact that Arabs have 14 seats in their 144 seat congress-like legislature, it's one of the only places where they are granted citizenship (Palestinians have been worse off in other areas), and they themselves are committing acts of atrocity seems to be ignored by this article.

Palestinians are not Arabs. They are descendants of the Caananites; this has been proven through DNA analysis. This is why the Arab world does not care for them. Also, they are only attacking Israel in self-defense; their homes, land, and food have been taken, and Israel has set up a blockade and is cutting off water access, bulldozing the few homes that are left in the area, and chopping down the olive trees that belong to Palestinians to deprive them of their livelihood.

u know.. Arabs don't care for any other Arabic country ,not because Palestinian are not Arabs....because Arabs now especially" Arab Gulf states" care for there money and oil wealth ..not brothers and sisters in Islam any where ..thats why
thats why they are weak and idiots ..they never have gather they never have gathered and united.
Palestinian people are brave and don't need Arabs help ..they can win and beat Israel with their beliefs of Allah(god) and his blessing.
and soon israel will be kicked out just like getting rid of disgusting rabish away from of our holy Aqsaa.
in sha Allah
Eitan_Zohar
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5/13/2013 7:25:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 2:58:36 AM, Takwa wrote:
At 5/11/2013 5:06:01 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/10/2013 5:19:19 PM, 16kadams wrote:
And the fact that Arabs have 14 seats in their 144 seat congress-like legislature, it's one of the only places where they are granted citizenship (Palestinians have been worse off in other areas), and they themselves are committing acts of atrocity seems to be ignored by this article.

Palestinians are not Arabs. They are descendants of the Caananites; this has been proven through DNA analysis. This is why the Arab world does not care for them. Also, they are only attacking Israel in self-defense; their homes, land, and food have been taken, and Israel has set up a blockade and is cutting off water access, bulldozing the few homes that are left in the area, and chopping down the olive trees that belong to Palestinians to deprive them of their livelihood.

u know.. Arabs don't care for any other Arabic country ,not because Palestinian are not Arabs....because Arabs now especially" Arab Gulf states" care for there money and oil wealth ..not brothers and sisters in Islam any where ..thats why
thats why they are weak and idiots ..they never have gather they never have gathered and united.
Palestinian people are brave and don't need Arabs help ..they can win and beat Israel with their beliefs of Allah(god) and his blessing.
and soon israel will be kicked out just like getting rid of disgusting rabish away from of our holy Aqsaa.
in sha Allah

royal, you've found your soulmate!
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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5/13/2013 7:27:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 5:06:01 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/10/2013 5:19:19 PM, 16kadams wrote:
And the fact that Arabs have 14 seats in their 144 seat congress-like legislature, it's one of the only places where they are granted citizenship (Palestinians have been worse off in other areas), and they themselves are committing acts of atrocity seems to be ignored by this article.

Palestinians are not Arabs. They are descendants of the Caananites; this has been proven through DNA analysis. This is why the Arab world does not care for them. Also, they are only attacking Israel in self-defense; their homes, land, and food have been taken, and Israel has set up a blockade and is cutting off water access, bulldozing the few homes that are left in the area, and chopping down the olive trees that belong to Palestinians to deprive them of their livelihood.

The palestinians put missile sites next to residential areas so they can win a public opinion war. This is why I don't feel sorry for them.

http://kleinonline.wnd.com...
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/13/2013 10:51:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 7:25:19 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/13/2013 2:58:36 AM, Takwa wrote:
At 5/11/2013 5:06:01 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/10/2013 5:19:19 PM, 16kadams wrote:
And the fact that Arabs have 14 seats in their 144 seat congress-like legislature, it's one of the only places where they are granted citizenship (Palestinians have been worse off in other areas), and they themselves are committing acts of atrocity seems to be ignored by this article.

Palestinians are not Arabs. They are descendants of the Caananites; this has been proven through DNA analysis. This is why the Arab world does not care for them. Also, they are only attacking Israel in self-defense; their homes, land, and food have been taken, and Israel has set up a blockade and is cutting off water access, bulldozing the few homes that are left in the area, and chopping down the olive trees that belong to Palestinians to deprive them of their livelihood.

u know.. Arabs don't care for any other Arabic country ,not because Palestinian are not Arabs....because Arabs now especially" Arab Gulf states" care for there money and oil wealth ..not brothers and sisters in Islam any where ..thats why
thats why they are weak and idiots ..they never have gather they never have gathered and united.
Palestinian people are brave and don't need Arabs help ..they can win and beat Israel with their beliefs of Allah(god) and his blessing.
and soon israel will be kicked out just like getting rid of disgusting rabish away from of our holy Aqsaa.
in sha Allah

royal, you've found your soulmate!

How? This guy thinks that Palestinians are Arabs, just that Arabs don't really care for each other. His opinion is much more in-line with your article and dismisses Royal's assertion off-hand.

I think his opinion makes a lot of sense. It's what underlies Saudi actions in the region, and succinctly explains conflicts like the Iran/Iraq war, and Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/13/2013 2:08:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 10:51:02 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/13/2013 7:25:19 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/13/2013 2:58:36 AM, Takwa wrote:
At 5/11/2013 5:06:01 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/10/2013 5:19:19 PM, 16kadams wrote:
And the fact that Arabs have 14 seats in their 144 seat congress-like legislature, it's one of the only places where they are granted citizenship (Palestinians have been worse off in other areas), and they themselves are committing acts of atrocity seems to be ignored by this article.

Palestinians are not Arabs. They are descendants of the Caananites; this has been proven through DNA analysis. This is why the Arab world does not care for them. Also, they are only attacking Israel in self-defense; their homes, land, and food have been taken, and Israel has set up a blockade and is cutting off water access, bulldozing the few homes that are left in the area, and chopping down the olive trees that belong to Palestinians to deprive them of their livelihood.

u know.. Arabs don't care for any other Arabic country ,not because Palestinian are not Arabs....because Arabs now especially" Arab Gulf states" care for there money and oil wealth ..not brothers and sisters in Islam any where ..thats why
thats why they are weak and idiots ..they never have gather they never have gathered and united.
Palestinian people are brave and don't need Arabs help ..they can win and beat Israel with their beliefs of Allah(god) and his blessing.
and soon israel will be kicked out just like getting rid of disgusting rabish away from of our holy Aqsaa.
in sha Allah

royal, you've found your soulmate!

How? This guy thinks that Palestinians are Arabs, just that Arabs don't really care for each other. His opinion is much more in-line with your article and dismisses Royal's assertion off-hand.

I think his opinion makes a lot of sense. It's what underlies Saudi actions in the region, and succinctly explains conflicts like the Iran/Iraq war, and Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

No, I was referring to her advocacy of Israeli genocide. I agree that the Arabs are disunited.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/13/2013 2:11:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, apparently it's a 'she,' and she comes from Jordan, where 60% of the population is Palestinian. So it's pretty obvious she would know that Palestinians are Arabs- even if she wasn't Palestinian herself, she was bound to have met them.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/13/2013 8:05:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 2:08:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/13/2013 10:51:02 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/13/2013 7:25:19 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/13/2013 2:58:36 AM, Takwa wrote:
At 5/11/2013 5:06:01 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/10/2013 5:19:19 PM, 16kadams wrote:
And the fact that Arabs have 14 seats in their 144 seat congress-like legislature, it's one of the only places where they are granted citizenship (Palestinians have been worse off in other areas), and they themselves are committing acts of atrocity seems to be ignored by this article.

Palestinians are not Arabs. They are descendants of the Caananites; this has been proven through DNA analysis. This is why the Arab world does not care for them. Also, they are only attacking Israel in self-defense; their homes, land, and food have been taken, and Israel has set up a blockade and is cutting off water access, bulldozing the few homes that are left in the area, and chopping down the olive trees that belong to Palestinians to deprive them of their livelihood.

u know.. Arabs don't care for any other Arabic country ,not because Palestinian are not Arabs....because Arabs now especially" Arab Gulf states" care for there money and oil wealth ..not brothers and sisters in Islam any where ..thats why
thats why they are weak and idiots ..they never have gather they never have gathered and united.
Palestinian people are brave and don't need Arabs help ..they can win and beat Israel with their beliefs of Allah(god) and his blessing.
and soon israel will be kicked out just like getting rid of disgusting rabish away from of our holy Aqsaa.
in sha Allah

royal, you've found your soulmate!

How? This guy thinks that Palestinians are Arabs, just that Arabs don't really care for each other. His opinion is much more in-line with your article and dismisses Royal's assertion off-hand.

I think his opinion makes a lot of sense. It's what underlies Saudi actions in the region, and succinctly explains conflicts like the Iran/Iraq war, and Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

No, I was referring to her advocacy of Israeli genocide. I agree that the Arabs are disunited.

This person is not advocating genocide. There's a gigantic difference between advocating the destruction of the state of Israel, and engaging in ethnic cleansing. I'm not saying that the two do not coincide, but this person makes it clear that she is not looking for Israeli blood, although she obviously views it as a holy war.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?