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copper29
Posts: 2
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6/1/2013 11:45:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I just wanted to start talking about the national debt and why I think that the US economy is in for a collapse that will dwarf the great recession of '08. Our debt is too big to pay off at this point and we only keep adding more. What I don't understand is why people think that the economy is great and that all the problems from the recession are gone. Think for a second, what happened in '08? The economy crashed and the housing market collapsed, investors lost money and banks were on the outs. Private debts skyrocketed and the economy was looking like it would ruin us. But in swooped the federal government. (This is where the thinking comes into play) Where did all those debts go? Did the government pay them off with that great excess of money that they had? No, foreign investors gave the US govt money which then proceeded to absorb those private debts through bailouts. Now were in a hole too big to get out of and we will have to default on our loans and the dollar will plummet which will cause inflation which will make everyone poorer.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/2/2013 12:47:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2013 11:45:08 PM, copper29 wrote:
I just wanted to start talking about the national debt and why I think that the US economy is in for a collapse that will dwarf the great recession of '08. Our debt is too big to pay off at this point and we only keep adding more. What I don't understand is why people think that the economy is great and that all the problems from the recession are gone. Think for a second, what happened in '08? The economy crashed and the housing market collapsed, investors lost money and banks were on the outs. Private debts skyrocketed and the economy was looking like it would ruin us. But in swooped the federal government. (This is where the thinking comes into play) Where did all those debts go? Did the government pay them off with that great excess of money that they had? No, foreign investors gave the US govt money which then proceeded to absorb those private debts through bailouts. Now were in a hole too big to get out of and we will have to default on our loans and the dollar will plummet which will cause inflation which will make everyone poorer.

Why do you think that the loan is too great to pay out? Why is it too great now, but wasn't before the 2008 collapse?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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6/2/2013 7:21:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
So long as we have credit we will be fine. The key issue is to not let it get that bad. The larger the debt, the harder it will be to pay off. Also, the larger the debt the greater share of the budget is reserved for interest.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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6/2/2013 10:54:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2013 11:45:08 PM, copper29 wrote:
I just wanted to start talking about the national debt and why I think that the US economy is in for a collapse that will dwarf the great recession of '08. Our debt is too big to pay off at this point and we only keep adding more. What I don't understand is why people think that the economy is great and that all the problems from the recession are gone. Think for a second, what happened in '08? The economy crashed and the housing market collapsed, investors lost money and banks were on the outs. Private debts skyrocketed and the economy was looking like it would ruin us. But in swooped the federal government. (This is where the thinking comes into play) Where did all those debts go? Did the government pay them off with that great excess of money that they had? No, foreign investors gave the US govt money which then proceeded to absorb those private debts through bailouts. Now were in a hole too big to get out of and we will have to default on our loans and the dollar will plummet which will cause inflation which will make everyone poorer.

You realize that the bailout is only a small part of the national debt, right? The majority of it can be accounted for by decreased tax revenue, not increased spending. Obama has a very low record of increased spending compared to other presidents.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/2/2013 11:56:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 10:54:37 AM, drhead wrote:
At 6/1/2013 11:45:08 PM, copper29 wrote:
I just wanted to start talking about the national debt and why I think that the US economy is in for a collapse that will dwarf the great recession of '08. Our debt is too big to pay off at this point and we only keep adding more. What I don't understand is why people think that the economy is great and that all the problems from the recession are gone. Think for a second, what happened in '08? The economy crashed and the housing market collapsed, investors lost money and banks were on the outs. Private debts skyrocketed and the economy was looking like it would ruin us. But in swooped the federal government. (This is where the thinking comes into play) Where did all those debts go? Did the government pay them off with that great excess of money that they had? No, foreign investors gave the US govt money which then proceeded to absorb those private debts through bailouts. Now were in a hole too big to get out of and we will have to default on our loans and the dollar will plummet which will cause inflation which will make everyone poorer.

You realize that the bailout is only a small part of the national debt, right? The majority of it can be accounted for by decreased tax revenue, not increased spending. Obama has a very low record of increased spending compared to other presidents.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com...

Here is a link to support said claim.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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6/2/2013 11:59:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't think that we will have to pay back the principal on all of the national debt all at once. And even though Washington D.C. is a fiscal mess with an unsustainable future, the deficit is falling, which is good.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
copper29
Posts: 2
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6/2/2013 12:34:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 12:47:04 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/1/2013 11:45:08 PM, copper29 wrote:
I just wanted to start talking about the national debt and why I think that the US economy is in for a collapse that will dwarf the great recession of '08. Our debt is too big to pay off at this point and we only keep adding more. What I don't understand is why people think that the economy is great and that all the problems from the recession are gone. Think for a second, what happened in '08? The economy crashed and the housing market collapsed, investors lost money and banks were on the outs. Private debts skyrocketed and the economy was looking like it would ruin us. But in swooped the federal government. (This is where the thinking comes into play) Where did all those debts go? Did the government pay them off with that great excess of money that they had? No, foreign investors gave the US govt money which then proceeded to absorb those private debts through bailouts. Now were in a hole too big to get out of and we will have to default on our loans and the dollar will plummet which will cause inflation which will make everyone poorer.

Why do you think that the loan is too great to pay out? Why is it too great now, but wasn't before the 2008 collapse?

Because it will have gone up more than 10 trillion dollars before 2016, and I doubt that any other president will end the spending. Our government programs and other expenses can't simply just end. Not without considerable backlash from the people. So what choice do we have other than eventually defaulting? There isn't another option. And with default comes inflation, the fall of the dollar, and a corresponding response from the stock market. But this time, there won't be a government that is able to absorb the debts of the private sector. Banks will close, money will disappear, inflation will be more substantial than the bank interests.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/2/2013 3:28:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 12:34:57 PM, copper29 wrote:
At 6/2/2013 12:47:04 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/1/2013 11:45:08 PM, copper29 wrote:
I just wanted to start talking about the national debt and why I think that the US economy is in for a collapse that will dwarf the great recession of '08. Our debt is too big to pay off at this point and we only keep adding more. What I don't understand is why people think that the economy is great and that all the problems from the recession are gone. Think for a second, what happened in '08? The economy crashed and the housing market collapsed, investors lost money and banks were on the outs. Private debts skyrocketed and the economy was looking like it would ruin us. But in swooped the federal government. (This is where the thinking comes into play) Where did all those debts go? Did the government pay them off with that great excess of money that they had? No, foreign investors gave the US govt money which then proceeded to absorb those private debts through bailouts. Now were in a hole too big to get out of and we will have to default on our loans and the dollar will plummet which will cause inflation which will make everyone poorer.

Why do you think that the loan is too great to pay out? Why is it too great now, but wasn't before the 2008 collapse?

Because it will have gone up more than 10 trillion dollars before 2016, and I doubt that any other president will end the spending. Our government programs and other expenses can't simply just end. Not without considerable backlash from the people. So what choice do we have other than eventually defaulting? There isn't another option. And with default comes inflation, the fall of the dollar, and a corresponding response from the stock market. But this time, there won't be a government that is able to absorb the debts of the private sector. Banks will close, money will disappear, inflation will be more substantial than the bank interests.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com...

The current budget projection shows that by 2016 will only be up $2.2 trillion from 2012, from $16.4 to $18.6 trillion. It should also be noted that the deficit is going down each year from its 2009 peak.

Also, from Obama's first year (2009), spending has actually gone down. In 2009 it was $3.205 trillion, and last year, 2012, it was $3.052 trillion.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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6/2/2013 5:55:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 3:28:10 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/2/2013 12:34:57 PM, copper29 wrote:
At 6/2/2013 12:47:04 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/1/2013 11:45:08 PM, copper29 wrote:
I just wanted to start talking about the national debt and why I think that the US economy is in for a collapse that will dwarf the great recession of '08. Our debt is too big to pay off at this point and we only keep adding more. What I don't understand is why people think that the economy is great and that all the problems from the recession are gone. Think for a second, what happened in '08? The economy crashed and the housing market collapsed, investors lost money and banks were on the outs. Private debts skyrocketed and the economy was looking like it would ruin us. But in swooped the federal government. (This is where the thinking comes into play) Where did all those debts go? Did the government pay them off with that great excess of money that they had? No, foreign investors gave the US govt money which then proceeded to absorb those private debts through bailouts. Now were in a hole too big to get out of and we will have to default on our loans and the dollar will plummet which will cause inflation which will make everyone poorer.

Why do you think that the loan is too great to pay out? Why is it too great now, but wasn't before the 2008 collapse?

Because it will have gone up more than 10 trillion dollars before 2016, and I doubt that any other president will end the spending. Our government programs and other expenses can't simply just end. Not without considerable backlash from the people. So what choice do we have other than eventually defaulting? There isn't another option. And with default comes inflation, the fall of the dollar, and a corresponding response from the stock market. But this time, there won't be a government that is able to absorb the debts of the private sector. Banks will close, money will disappear, inflation will be more substantial than the bank interests.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com...

The current budget projection shows that by 2016 will only be up $2.2 trillion from 2012, from $16.4 to $18.6 trillion. It should also be noted that the deficit is going down each year from its 2009 peak.

Also, from Obama's first year (2009), spending has actually gone down. In 2009 it was $3.205 trillion, and last year, 2012, it was $3.052 trillion.

Not to be a jerk but the CBO says that in 2012 spending was $3.5 trillion, which is projected to rise in the upcoming decades.

CBO Budget Outlook, Fiscal Years 2013 - 2023, PDF
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/2/2013 6:15:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 5:55:19 PM, Contra wrote:
At 6/2/2013 3:28:10 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/2/2013 12:34:57 PM, copper29 wrote:
At 6/2/2013 12:47:04 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/1/2013 11:45:08 PM, copper29 wrote:
I just wanted to start talking about the national debt and why I think that the US economy is in for a collapse that will dwarf the great recession of '08. Our debt is too big to pay off at this point and we only keep adding more. What I don't understand is why people think that the economy is great and that all the problems from the recession are gone. Think for a second, what happened in '08? The economy crashed and the housing market collapsed, investors lost money and banks were on the outs. Private debts skyrocketed and the economy was looking like it would ruin us. But in swooped the federal government. (This is where the thinking comes into play) Where did all those debts go? Did the government pay them off with that great excess of money that they had? No, foreign investors gave the US govt money which then proceeded to absorb those private debts through bailouts. Now were in a hole too big to get out of and we will have to default on our loans and the dollar will plummet which will cause inflation which will make everyone poorer.

Why do you think that the loan is too great to pay out? Why is it too great now, but wasn't before the 2008 collapse?

Because it will have gone up more than 10 trillion dollars before 2016, and I doubt that any other president will end the spending. Our government programs and other expenses can't simply just end. Not without considerable backlash from the people. So what choice do we have other than eventually defaulting? There isn't another option. And with default comes inflation, the fall of the dollar, and a corresponding response from the stock market. But this time, there won't be a government that is able to absorb the debts of the private sector. Banks will close, money will disappear, inflation will be more substantial than the bank interests.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com...

The current budget projection shows that by 2016 will only be up $2.2 trillion from 2012, from $16.4 to $18.6 trillion. It should also be noted that the deficit is going down each year from its 2009 peak.

Also, from Obama's first year (2009), spending has actually gone down. In 2009 it was $3.205 trillion, and last year, 2012, it was $3.052 trillion.

Not to be a jerk but the CBO says that in 2012 spending was $3.5 trillion, which is projected to rise in the upcoming decades.

CBO Budget Outlook, Fiscal Years 2013 - 2023, PDF

Sorry, I had mine set to 2005 dollars, so inflation would not be a factor.

If it is set to just the nominal amount, we see that 2009 was $3.517 trillion, where 2012 was $3.537 trillion. And while yes, spending will increase in the coming years, revenue is expected to increase significantly more than spending, to close the gap.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com...
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
leojm
Posts: 1,825
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6/3/2013 7:14:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2013 11:45:08 PM, copper29 wrote:
I just wanted to start talking about the national debt and why I think that the US economy is in for a collapse that will dwarf the great recession of '08. Our debt is too big to pay off at this point and we only keep adding more. What I don't understand is why people think that the economy is great and that all the problems from the recession are gone. Think for a second, what happened in '08? The economy crashed and the housing market collapsed, investors lost money and banks were on the outs. Private debts skyrocketed and the economy was looking like it would ruin us. But in swooped the federal government. (This is where the thinking comes into play) Where did all those debts go? Did the government pay them off with that great excess of money that they had? No, foreign investors gave the US govt money which then proceeded to absorb those private debts through bailouts. Now were in a hole too big to get out of and we will have to default on our loans and the dollar will plummet which will cause inflation which will make everyone poorer.

yep. we are soooo much into debt.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/4/2013 4:23:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 11:59:14 AM, Contra wrote:
I don't think that we will have to pay back the principal on all of the national debt all at once. And even though Washington D.C. is a fiscal mess with an unsustainable future, the deficit is falling, which is good.

The deficit is falling largely due to higher taxes, which is not good for the economy.
The reality is: the economy sucks. Companies are laying off, and not spending their capital so that we are, and have been sitting in a stagnant, if not, receding economy.
leojm
Posts: 1,825
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6/4/2013 7:50:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 4:23:41 AM, innomen wrote:
At 6/2/2013 11:59:14 AM, Contra wrote:
I don't think that we will have to pay back the principal on all of the national debt all at once. And even though Washington D.C. is a fiscal mess with an unsustainable future, the deficit is falling, which is good.

The deficit is falling largely due to higher taxes, which is not good for the economy.
The reality is: the economy sucks. Companies are laying off, and not spending their capital so that we are, and have been sitting in a stagnant, if not, receding economy.

That's true. :P
jimtimmy2
Posts: 403
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6/4/2013 7:55:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
To the idiots who are saying things like "Obama has a record of low spending", you are stupid.

2009 was an extremely inflated year of spending. Using that as a baseline is dishonest. Anyone who argues that Obama has been a conservative spender because of the spending trajectory using 2009 as a baseline is either ignorant or dishonest.

I still love how Obama fans cheer on Obama for expanding the state and thus crowding out private enterprise but then deny that there has been any expansion of the state.

You have every right to be ignorant and support Obamaism, but please don't insult us by pretending that Obamaism isn't just warmed over violent statism with a smiley face.
leojm
Posts: 1,825
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6/4/2013 7:59:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 7:55:41 AM, jimtimmy2 wrote:
To the idiots who are saying things like "Obama has a record of low spending", you are stupid.

2009 was an extremely inflated year of spending. Using that as a baseline is dishonest. Anyone who argues that Obama has been a conservative spender because of the spending trajectory using 2009 as a baseline is either ignorant or dishonest.

I still love how Obama fans cheer on Obama for expanding the state and thus crowding out private enterprise but then deny that there has been any expansion of the state.

You have every right to be ignorant and support Obamaism, but please don't insult us by pretending that Obamaism isn't just warmed over violent statism with a smiley face.

Woohoo, someone agrees with me. Thank you so much.