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Mandatory Drug & Alcohol Testing - 7th grade!

GWL-CPA
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6/8/2013 4:26:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Mandatory alcohol and drug testing (for example, heroin, marijuana, coke, methamphetamines, LSD, steroids, and so forth) should be required starting in middle school, seventh grade, and continuing through the age of 21 if you go to college.

The increasing rate of illegal drug and alcohol use in our middle schools, high schools, and colleges is destroying too many young people's lives.

The only way to effectively stop this is to have mandatory quarterly alcohol and illegal drug testing using hair or blood samples. This testing should start in the seventh grade and continue through high school, and through college for those folks that go to college.

Students testing positive need to be seen by a psychologist, medical doctor, and counselors.

If the students are under 18, their parents need to be interviewed by school officials; and if it is deemed necessary, the state's Child and Family Services officials need to be involved in the discussions. If it is deemed necessary, the parents should be required to submit to illegal drug and alcohol testing. If it is determined that the parents are unfit to raise children, the children need to put in foster homes where hopefully and finally the children will have fit decent parents.

The push to legalize drugs will only make these problems worse.

Marijuana Legalization's Costs Outweigh Its Benefits
About David G. Evans:
David Evans, Esq. is a special adviser to the Drug Free America Foundation.
October 30, 2012

Legalization will cause a tremendous increase in marijuana use. Based on the experience elsewhere, the number of users will double or triple. This means an additional 17 to 34 million young and adult users in the United States. Legalization will mean that marijuana businesses can promote their products and package them in attractive ways to increase their market share.

Increased marijuana use will mean millions more damaged young people. Marijuana use can permanently impair brain development. Problem solving, concentration, motivation, and memory are negatively affected. Teens who use marijuana are more likely to engage in delinquent and dangerous behavior, and experience increased risk of schizophrenia and depression, including being three times more likely to have suicidal thoughts. Marijuana-using teens are more likely to have multiple sexual partners and engage in unsafe sex.
http://www.usnews.com...

How really bad is the illegal drug problem in America and our neighbor Canada?

The heroin crisis is no longer an inner city problem, it has spread to the suburbs.

"As suburban heroin crisis rages, education efforts ramp up"

"In my 29 years of law enforcement, when you talked of heroin, it was inner city. When you though of drugs in the suburbs, you thought marijuana, he said. Heroin is out here. And, we are seeing a lot of it. The trend was marijuana, then cocaine, and now it is heroin."
http://www.dailyherald.com...

"Heroin Task Force Bill Passes"

A bill proposed by state Rep. Sam Yingling (D-Grayslake, IL) to create a task force to address heroin use among young people passed the House and Senate.
http://vernonhills.patch.com...
Posted by Angela Sykora (Editor), May 30, 2013 at 05:42 pm

"Canadian Kids Smoke Most Marijuana in Western World: UNICEF"

The study on the well-being of children ranked Canada first out of 29 countries on the percentage of young people smoking pot. Fully 28 percent of the 11, 13 and 15-year-old Canadian children surveyed said they smoked marijuana at some point during the last year."

While Canada scored poorly on pot, it came in third-best on youth cigarette smoking, with 4.02 per cent saying they had puffed a butt in the last 12 months. Overall, Canada came in 17 of 29 countries. The study looked at material well-being, health and safety, education, behaviour and risks and housing and the environment.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca...

In the USA, the rate marijuana use by young folks is also extremely high.

(Marijuana Use Estimates by State) "Marijuana, the most commonly used illicit drug, was used by 6.0 percent of the population in 2007-2008 during the past month (Table B.3). States showing high prevalence rates for illicit drug use also had high prevalence rates for past month use of marijuana. Of the 10 States in the top fifth for past month use of an illicit drug among persons aged 12 or older, 9 States also were ranked in the top fifth for past month marijuana use: Alaska, Colorado, District of Columbia, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington (Figures 2.1 and 2.9).

"Seven States that ranked in the top fifth for past month marijuana use in all three age groups (12 to 17, 18 to 25, and 26 or older) and among persons 12 or older were Colorado, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont. (Figures 2.9 to 2.12). Iowa had the lowest rate of past month marijuana use in 2007-2008 (3.2 percent) in the 12 or older population, and Rhode Island had the highest rate (10.9 percent) - See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org...

In order to stop this increased drug use by our children, America needs much tougher drug laws, including laws against marijuana, just like those passed in Canada. Drug dealers need to go to jail for life, and medical marijuana stopped in America. There are much more effective drugs that doctors can prescribe instead of marijuana.

"The same day that voters in two U.S. states approved the legalization of marijuana, the Harper government in Ottawa was bringing into force tough new mandatory penalties for pot."

"Tuesday was also the day that drug measures in the Conservative government's omnibus Safe Streets and Communities Act, passed last spring, came into full force. Canada's new law provides a mandatory six-month jail term for growing as few as six marijuana plants, twice the mandatory minimum for luring a child to watch pornography or exposing oneself on a playground."
http://www.thestar.com...

"Marijuana stays illegal in Canada after Appeal Court ruling, Feb 1, 2013"
Canada's ban on marijuana was effectively upheld Friday when Ontario's top court struck down an earlier court decision that said Canada's laws related to medicinal pot were unconstitutional."
http://www.cbc.ca......

All Americans need to stand up and fight all attempts at legalizing any illegal drugs, including marijuana; all illegal drugs, including marijuana need to be banned in America forever!

We need to have mandatory testing of our children starting in the seventh grade to make sure we stop the spread of illegal drug use by our children, because it will ruin their lives.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/8/2013 5:04:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."

There are many things one can get addicted to though. DDO, video games. Drugs is just one of many possible addictions.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
000ike
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6/8/2013 5:06:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:04:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."

There are many things one can get addicted to though. DDO, video games. Drugs is just one of many possible addictions.

nah, I don't think that comparison is accurate. Video games and DDO won't kill you, and the addiction is psychological rather than physiological, which makes it less compulsive.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Cody_Franklin
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6/8/2013 5:06:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."

Why would you want a biased information campaign? If such a campaign is really anti-drug, it is unlikely that an objective and well-documented factual evaluation of drug use is in store, which is immediately detrimental to responsible decision-making; on the contrary, I imagine such a campaign would seek out and emphasize the information helpful to its case while omitting or downplaying at the same time both the benefits of drug use and any countervailing evidence concerning its drawbacks. "Use at your own risk" is a useless caveat if those risks are not accurately assessed and documented.
Cody_Franklin
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6/8/2013 5:07:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:04:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."

There are many things one can get addicted to though. DDO, video games. Drugs is just one of many possible addictions.

Counterpoint--if this is true, then it would be preferable, on the view of a benevolent paternalist, to restrict the total number of things to which you could get addicted. If it is true than an addictive personality is to blame, then why not take care to minimize the temptations such a person might encounter?
Noumena
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6/8/2013 5:09:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:06:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:04:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."

There are many things one can get addicted to though. DDO, video games. Drugs is just one of many possible addictions.

nah, I don't think that comparison is accurate. Video games and DDO won't kill you, and the addiction is psychological rather than physiological, which makes it less compulsive.

Certain drugs (pot, shrooms) have little chance of causing physical addiction.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
000ike
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6/8/2013 5:10:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:07:19 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:04:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."

There are many things one can get addicted to though. DDO, video games. Drugs is just one of many possible addictions.

Counterpoint--if this is true, then it would be preferable, on the view of a benevolent paternalist, to restrict the total number of things to which you could get addicted. If it is true than an addictive personality is to blame, then why not take care to minimize the temptations such a person might encounter?

It was my understanding that addiction is dependent on genetics, not character, and so a society in which drug use is normalized and presented without bias emphasis on the possible harm, leaves those people at a disadvantage.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
drhead
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6/8/2013 5:15:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Or, even better, reallocate all funding for the war on drugs to fight hard drugs instead of marijuana. Better yet, legalize and tax marijuana, so people won't see it as a gateway drug anymore.

There are so many constitutional ways one could deal with the drug problem. Your suggestion is not one of them.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
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Noumena
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6/8/2013 5:15:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:10:34 PM, 000ike wrote:

It was my understanding that addiction is dependent on genetics, not character, and so a society in which drug use is normalized and presented without bias emphasis on the possible harm, leaves those people at a disadvantage.

Nihilists should do better than to sprinkle everything they say with normative presuppositions.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
PrivateEye
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6/8/2013 5:21:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Suggestion for the OP in her endeavours: Don't tell kids smoking pot will leave them more likely to have multiple sexual partners.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/8/2013 5:21:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:10:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:07:19 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:04:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."

There are many things one can get addicted to though. DDO, video games. Drugs is just one of many possible addictions.

Counterpoint--if this is true, then it would be preferable, on the view of a benevolent paternalist, to restrict the total number of things to which you could get addicted. If it is true than an addictive personality is to blame, then why not take care to minimize the temptations such a person might encounter?

It was my understanding that addiction is dependent on genetics, not character, and so a society in which drug use is normalized and presented without bias emphasis on the possible harm, leaves those people at a disadvantage.

Being genetically predisposed to habituation, compounded by years of psychological feedback, as manifested by compulsive pleasure-seeking, is, from that point of view, a disadvantage on its own account. I think there is a distinct risk between exaggerating the risks and making them salient. In a society in which drug use is normalized, it seems given that most people would discount the risks. I would not object to someone calling special attention to those risks, but I would be considerably distressed by their overemphasis, which is the mistake made by those who contend that drug use "ruins peoples' lives"--it is a jump from factual statements, such as those which might be made in an epidemiology journal, and the judgments made on their account, such as might be made in the speeches of politicians. It is a matter of high probability, for instance, that marijuana use produces in males a higher incidence of nonseminomal tumors. I would have no trouble listing this among the possible risks of marijuana use, but it is quite a stretch to say that we ought to discourage drug use, or that the alternative to making for everyone a judgment concerning the value of their use is to act as if drug use has no drawbacks.
GWL-CPA
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6/8/2013 6:12:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:24:42 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
^Poorly written. Sorry.

Whatever. You apparently understood what was written.

The responses prove what I already know about confirmation bias at this site because of the age demographics, i.e., most people are young, teenage to late twenties. And, are very liberal and support all the current liberal view points on legalizing drugs and gay marriage.

"Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.[Note 1][1] People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in military, political, and organizational contexts."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

A couple days ago, I analyzed two questions in the Opinions" Section, here are the question and statistics. I did this by copying and pasting into an Excel worksheet, and then using various formulas to extract and sort the data. I did this to prove how extreme the confirmation bias is at this site.

1."Should Marijuana be Legalized?

513 people posted a "Yes" or "No" response.

436 people or 85% voted "Yes"
350 or 80% of these people were "Anonymous"

77 people voted "No" or 15%
60 or 78% of these people were "Anonymous"

2."Should the Recreational Use of Marijuana be made legal in the United States"

123 people posted a "Yes" or "No" response.

108 people or 87% voted "Yes"
87 or 81% of these people were "Anonymous"

15 people voted "No" or 13%
6 or 40% of these people were "Anonymous"

So, I am not surprised by the responses.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
GWL-CPA
Posts: 627
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6/8/2013 6:18:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:15:00 PM, drhead wrote:
Or, even better, reallocate all funding for the war on drugs to fight hard drugs instead of marijuana. Better yet, legalize and tax marijuana, so people won't see it as a gateway drug anymore.

There are so many constitutional ways one could deal with the drug problem. Your suggestion is not one of them.

Mandatory drug testing in public schools is not unconstitutional if the agreement to enter that school that is signed by parents, so states.

If it is, Congress will have to pass legislation requiring it. Within twenty years, the drug problems in the USA will be too bad for Congress not to do something more.

We need to spend billions more on the war on drugs. We need to lock all dealers up for life.

And, the taxation of drugs will be a joke in the USA. Everyone will be able to still buy from drug dealers at a cheaper price and not pay any taxes.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
GWL-CPA
Posts: 627
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6/8/2013 6:20:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:10:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:07:19 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:04:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."

There are many things one can get addicted to though. DDO, video games. Drugs is just one of many possible addictions.

Counterpoint--if this is true, then it would be preferable, on the view of a benevolent paternalist, to restrict the total number of things to which you could get addicted. If it is true than an addictive personality is to blame, then why not take care to minimize the temptations such a person might encounter?

It was my understanding that addiction is dependent on genetics, not character, and so a society in which drug use is normalized and presented without bias emphasis on the possible harm, leaves those people at a disadvantage.

That is your opinion, please support it with medical evidence, not your opinion. To ignore this as a huge problem in America, is to bury your head in the sand. Probably, because of confirmation bias.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/8/2013 6:23:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I like how you keep bringing up confirmation bias. I, too, like to bring up confirmation bias.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/8/2013 6:24:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 6:12:01 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:24:42 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
^Poorly written. Sorry.

Whatever. You apparently understood what was written.

My post was poorly-written.

The responses prove what I already know about confirmation bias at this site because of the age demographics, i.e., most people are young, teenage to late twenties. And, are very liberal and support all the current liberal view points on legalizing drugs and gay marriage.

"Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.[Note 1][1] People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in military, political, and organizational contexts."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

A couple days ago, I analyzed two questions in the Opinions" Section, here are the question and statistics. I did this by copying and pasting into an Excel worksheet, and then using various formulas to extract and sort the data. I did this to prove how extreme the confirmation bias is at this site.

1."Should Marijuana be Legalized?

513 people posted a "Yes" or "No" response.

436 people or 85% voted "Yes"
350 or 80% of these people were "Anonymous"

77 people voted "No" or 15%
60 or 78% of these people were "Anonymous"

2."Should the Recreational Use of Marijuana be made legal in the United States"

123 people posted a "Yes" or "No" response.

108 people or 87% voted "Yes"
87 or 81% of these people were "Anonymous"

15 people voted "No" or 13%
6 or 40% of these people were "Anonymous"

So, I am not surprised by the responses.

I am as curious what you imagine my argument is as I am of why you think people in this thread are so unfamiliar with confirmation bias that it requires such a lengthy explanation. If you could give a brief, accurate summary of what you take my position to be, as well as why I fall victim to confirmation bias after having invoked in my own argument a need to avoid it, I'm sure it would prove fruitful.
GWL-CPA
Posts: 627
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6/8/2013 6:33:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

Not at all. I used to smoke pot in the seventies after graduating from college. Smoked that junk for about 8 years. Then I grew up.

If you can't enjoy life clean and sober, there is something wrong with you.

A couple of drinks now and then is OK, even though I don't do that anymore because of health reasons, my wife does. You don't get drunk on a couple of drinks. You get stoned on a joint, and very high on all the other drugs.

Here is my favorite video on marijuana. It is funny and totally factual, please view it, especially the comment from the prominent psychologist MD.

Video: Is marijuana harmless?
http://hotair.com...
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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6/8/2013 6:43:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
GWA-CPL:

Am I to understand, then, that you aren't a big fan of the Constitution?
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/8/2013 6:50:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 6:33:45 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

Not at all. I used to smoke pot in the seventies after graduating from college. Smoked that junk for about 8 years. Then I grew up.

If you can't enjoy life clean and sober, there is something wrong with you.

"Clean" is a pejorative. It assumes that drug use is dirty; but, since that's contained in the question we're discussing, you do not have the luxury of starting with that assumption.

Furthermore, I think it's mildly prejudiced to suppose there's something wrong with another person merely because they don't share your point of view. I'm not particularly fond of Sam Harris, but I think he was right when he argued, to paraphrase and embellish, that the capacity to shepherd the contents of our consciousness--to include in its activities, if we choose, substances like THC, psilocybin, LSD--is an opportunity with which we've been graced by nature. Indeed, reports like those from Johns Hopkins, which have noted the usefulness of psilocybin in improving long-term affect, creativity, and even for use in end-of-life therapy, demonstrates that the criterion mediating the risks and rewards of drug use tends not always to be the substance, but our use of them. Perhaps some argument somewhat to the contrary could be made for wanton use of, say, methamphetamine, but it is interesting to note our society's tendency both to appropriate and encourage dangerous drug use so long as it's on that culture's terms. Consider the appropriation of amphetamines, opiates, and chemistry-altering antipsychotics for a multiplicity of pharmaceutical uses. Not to say I endorse these appropriations, but it's intriguing that drug use is often regarded as life-ruining when it is engaged in outside the approved, normalized channels.

A couple of drinks now and then is OK, even though I don't do that anymore because of health reasons, my wife does. You don't get drunk on a couple of drinks. You get stoned on a joint, and very high on all the other drugs.

Well, a beer or a glass of wine a day is often recommended for heart health/to prevent clotting, but that's neither here nor there. I think it's bizarre and superstitious, in any case, to avoid something merely because it alters your perceptions. Notwithstanding that our individual perceptions of the world are likely not identical anyhow, introducing new substances into the body is, oversimplifying a bit, only a substitution of one mixture of chemicals for another. To say that there is "something wrong" with someone who is not satisfied restricting the scope of their conscious experience is not only inaccurate, but, more importantly, founded on a completely fictitious "normal" or "proper" perception of the world which, like that rosy nostalgia for the past, clings to that which neither exists nor ever did exist. Normalcy is, at its core, not merely a statistical trend (and therefore non-binding across entire populations and cultures), but also a tool with which rulers can shun, silence, and dominate those who refuse to accept the model of life and thought imposed on them, much as you are trying to stigmatize those who do not follow the model you wish to declare right and proper.

Here is my favorite video on marijuana. It is funny and totally factual, please view it, especially the comment from the prominent psychologist MD.

Video: Is marijuana harmless?
http://hotair.com...

Alright, I will.
Cody_Franklin
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6/8/2013 6:55:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
For the record, I do not believe drugs are harmless: I do thorough research, to the maximum extent I am able, on every psychoactive drug I put into my body. I understand the potential psychological risks of dropping acid, I understand the unique cancer risks presented by regular, prolonged marijuana use, and I accept those risks, much as anyone who drives a car accepts the risk of a wreck, or as anyone who eats at a restaurant accepts the possibility of getting food poisoning (as upset as one would nevertheless be in the case that any of these circumstances actually obtain). I think there is often offered a false choice between pretending that drug use has no risks and using the risks as a reason to denounce and avoid drug use. There are those, among whom I count myself, who understand and study the risks while nevertheless continuing--responsibly--to enjoy drugs.
muzebreak
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6/8/2013 6:55:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:06:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:04:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."

There are many things one can get addicted to though. DDO, video games. Drugs is just one of many possible addictions.

nah, I don't think that comparison is accurate. Video games and DDO won't kill you,

LSD, weed, and various other drugs will not kill you, no matter how much you take.

and the addiction is psychological rather than physiological, which makes it less compulsive.

Again, not all drugs are physically addictive. For instance, weed and LSD.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
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6/8/2013 6:57:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 4:26:52 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
Mandatory alcohol and drug testing (for example, heroin, marijuana, coke, methamphetamines, LSD, steroids, and so forth) should be required starting in middle school, seventh grade, and continuing through the age of 21 if you go to college.

The increasing rate of illegal drug and alcohol use in our middle schools, high schools, and colleges is destroying too many young people's lives.

The only way to effectively stop this is to have mandatory quarterly alcohol and illegal drug testing using hair or blood samples. This testing should start in the seventh grade and continue through high school, and through college for those folks that go to college.

Students testing positive need to be seen by a psychologist, medical doctor, and counselors.

If the students are under 18, their parents need to be interviewed by school officials; and if it is deemed necessary, the state's Child and Family Services officials need to be involved in the discussions. If it is deemed necessary, the parents should be required to submit to illegal drug and alcohol testing. If it is determined that the parents are unfit to raise children, the children need to put in foster homes where hopefully and finally the children will have fit decent parents.

: The push to legalize drugs will only make these problems worse.

I'm curious how you explain the lower drug usage in Portugal, and lower usage of Marijuana in Holland.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
GWL-CPA
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6/8/2013 7:27:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:00:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:56:07 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Am I to understand you have a paralyzing fear of drug use, then?

I understand that it's unlikely that experimentation will lead to addiction with regard to most drugs, but there are some people for whom it WILL. I'd rather have an anti-drug campaign that says "use at your own risk" than one that says "go ahead; nothing will happen."

Give me a break, we have had warnings on cigarettes and on booze telling pregnant women not to drink. Hasn't worked. 1 in 750 babies born each year in USA has fetal alcohol syndrome.

Actually, there are many studies that disagree with your comment. And, my friends that used to smoke pot with me in the seventies, all tried coke and LSD, even though I did not.

The rates of marijuana smoking in adults have remained stable since the 1990s. However, the rates of addiction to pot have risen significantly over that same period. And, according to recent government studies, as many as 30% of today's teenagers are smoking marijuana.

Yale study: Marijuana may really be gateway drug
Anti-drug advocates who have admonished for years that marijuana is a "gateway drug" may be on to something, according to a study by Yale University School of Medicine researchers. But the executive director of the state chapter of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws dismissed the findings as "just another propaganda study."
At least one area mental health professional said the Yale findings don't come as a surprise. Susannah Tung, a staff psychiatrist at St. Vincent's Behavioral Health in Westport, said she works with people battling addiction and frequently sees how early use of alcohol, cigarettes and marijuana can open the door to harder substances.
"If you start using something, it easily and quickly worsens," Tung said.

Read more: http://www.ctpost.com...

Is pot a "gateway" drug? In other words, does smoking marijuana make someone more likely to try cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, and other "hard" drugs? The jury is still out on this one. It's true that pot smokers are more likely to use other drugs after trying marijuana. What's not clear is whether smoking pot causes further drug use or if people who start smoking pot are just more likely to try drugs in general.
http://www.webmd.com...

Most of the pot smokers I used to know are also heavy drinkers, coke users and loved LSD.

Why are they selling magic mushrooms in the Netherlands cafes if marijuana smoker don't like other drugs? Because most marijuana smokers do other drugs; and these same drugs end up being used by our kids.

Therefore, for the greater benefit of society, we need mandatory testing. And, the only way to stop this completely is much more enforcement and tougher jail time. China was able to completely stop the opium problem and drug problems in China. America needs to do the same.

Most marijuana users move on or try coke; most of my friends in college and after college did. Denying that is not true is like trying to convince anyone that Snoop dogg, and Cheech & Chong have never done coke and who knows what else.

A big lie is being spread about marijuana not being a gateway drug or not being addictive; it is both. It is at least a gateway drug to coke for most people. The whole drug culture is about being stone. You go to party, coke is offered and you do a line or you take a toot off whatever is being smoked, e.g., pot laced with crack. Happens all the time, so please don't give me your nonsense that pot is not a gateway drug.

Marijuana & Other Drugs Quick Facts
Marijuana
Natural? Not anymore. There are 435 chemicals in marijuana and only 2, THC and CBC get a person high.
It has 50-70% more cancer causing substances than tobacco.
In addition, marijuana smokers tend to inhale deeper and hold it in their lungs longer. This causes lung damage thus smokers are more likely to get bronchitis or other lung infections
Today's marijuana is also 10-15 times stronger than in the 70's. This is equivilant to non-alcoholic beer versus 100 proof vodka.
Gateway drug? Not necessairly. Some users will quit, some will move on to heavier drugs, or some will continue smoking only marijuana. There are a lot of factors that go into who will do what but know this: 99% of cocaine users started with marijuana.

Other Drugs
Using someone else's precription drugs are not only illegal but it can have harmful effects especially if that person hasn't been prescribed it. Doctors who prescribe pills such as adderall are able to monitor their patients' and adjust the dosage as needed. If you are not prescribed medication but feel like you need it, talk to your doctor about getting your own prescription.
70% of hallucinagenic mushrooms (shrooms) are made by drug dealers. One way they make it is by buying and baking store bought mushrooms. Then they drop LSD on the mushrooms and sell it. How do you know if you were given real shrooms? The chemical found in real shrooms makes people extremely nauseated and most people throw up. If you or someone you know did not feel that way if you ingested mushrooms then you were given store bought LSD mushrooms. Pretty scary, huh?
LSD, whether you use it 30 times or once will cause flashbacks. The problem with flashbacks is you can experience it now or 30 years down the road. Excercise: Close your eyes for 10 seconds. Now imagine during those 10 seconds you were driving a car full of people down a busy interstate.
http://www.svsu.edu...

Actually, recent findings have been able to show that marijuana is, indeed, addictive. According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), about nine percent of people who use marijuana become dependent on it. The number increases to about 1 in 6 among those who start using it at a young age, and to 25% to 50% among daily users. (usatoday.com) Another indication is the rising number of people who are seeking inpatient treatment for marijuana (alone) use.
Okay. So maybe marijuana isn"t as harmless as once thought. But, that doesn"t mean that it will lead to harder drugs.
Well, according to NIDA, a person who smokes marijuana is 104 times more likely to use cocaine than a person who never tries pot. That isn"t to say that every pothead will graduate to full-fledge cokehead but, of those who use cocaine, it is more than likely that they started their drug-using careers with marijuana.
Another piece to this argument is that people who are extremely interested in altering their consciousness are likely to want to try more than one way of doing it. (healthland.time.com) That is, those who use harder drugs are more inclined to take the social and physical risks to achieve a desired effect, the "high," and will start with marijuana but inevitably go on to the harder stuff.
http://www.sobernation.com...

Anyway, that is more than sufficient proof that marijuana is a gateway drug, which is more than enough reason to start mandatory drug testing in seventh grade.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain