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How communism would really work

darkkermit
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6/12/2013 4:52:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://i.imgur.com...

This basically describes what happened in the USSR and why communism was such a horrible failure.

People love to say that "the USSR wasn't real communism" when discussing the USSR. However, based on reality constrains, there's really no good way to implement it, unless anyone has any critiques.

Thoughts?
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PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/12/2013 5:27:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hilarious. Black people uniting is my argument against the free market you thieving bastard
1Percenter
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6/12/2013 5:29:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The catch to communism is that a stateless communist society is impossible to achieve. A ruling class is always needed to direct the production of resources and manage redistribution of wealth. This is where the people get screwed -- the ruling class will always consolidate their power after transitioning into a communist system. It happens in every case. Communism is a bait and switch into totalitarianism.

Marx left the transition of power into communism vague and devoid of detail for a reason. The devil is in the details.
PrivateEye
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6/12/2013 5:55:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 5:29:49 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
The catch to communism is that a stateless communist society is impossible to achieve. A ruling class is always needed to direct the production of resources and manage redistribution of wealth. This is where the people get screwed -- the ruling class will always consolidate their power after transitioning into a communist system. It happens in every case. Communism is a bait and switch into totalitarianism.

Marx left the transition of power into communism vague and devoid of detail for a reason. The devil is in the details.

God too. Everything is actually evil.
PrivateEye
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6/12/2013 6:05:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 5:55:42 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/12/2013 5:29:49 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
The catch to communism is that a stateless communist society is impossible to achieve. A ruling class is always needed to direct the production of resources and manage redistribution of wealth. This is where the people get screwed -- the ruling class will always consolidate their power after transitioning into a communist system. It happens in every case. Communism is a bait and switch into totalitarianism.

Marx left the transition of power into communism vague and devoid of detail for a reason. The devil is in the details.

God too. Everything is actually evil.

No but seriously, basically then your argument against communism is that there are capitalists out there. It's much more enlightening to state it as such.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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6/12/2013 6:08:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 4:52:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
http://i.imgur.com...

This basically describes what happened in the USSR and why communism was such a horrible failure.

People love to say that "the USSR wasn't real communism" when discussing the USSR. However, based on reality constrains, there's really no good way to implement it, unless anyone has any critiques.

Thoughts?

This is just some rhetoric about the brutality of the USSR. If you're looking for a substantial analysis of the failure of the USSR than read "The Age of Turbulence," by Alan Greenspan. The way he tears up the Soviet revisionist image of communism is unbelievable.
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/12/2013 6:31:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
True Communism was implemented successfully in Catalonia Spain, in 1936.

Although it only was after a very violent Civil War.
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PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/12/2013 7:07:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 6:31:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
True Communism was implemented successfully in Catalonia Spain, in 1936.

Although it only was after a very violent Civil War.

lol
darkkermit
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6/12/2013 7:14:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 6:31:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
True Communism was implemented successfully in Catalonia Spain, in 1936.

Although it only was after a very violent Civil War.

They also had their own red terror:

http://en.wikipedia.org...(Spain)
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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/12/2013 7:41:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't think Communism will ever work in it's "true" form because it's just impractical. Getting everyone to cooperate in the system will never happen. In order to crack down on dissenters who will damage the communist cause you'll have to use violence and coercion. I'd never want to live in a state like that because I know I wouldn't go along with it.

It was a decent post. The biggest thing I like about it though is he rightly points out that a lot of modern day hardcore socialists and communists are middle class self proclaimed intelligentsia who don't realize that they're wealth is the wealth that'd be redistributed. These "hipsters" don't understand what they're really supporting.
PrivateEye
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6/12/2013 8:26:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 7:41:17 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I don't think Communism will ever work in it's "true" form because it's just impractical. Getting everyone to cooperate in the system will never happen. In order to crack down on dissenters who will damage the communist cause you'll have to use violence and coercion. I'd never want to live in a state like that because I know I wouldn't go along with it.

No need to crack down on dissenters, there's always self-immolation and then we could go trial and error until bliss. And then if the capitalists kill us all, well that's capitalism anyway.

Capitalism does not have the moral high ground, sorry.

It was a decent post. The biggest thing I like about it though is he rightly points out that a lot of modern day hardcore socialists and communists are middle class self proclaimed intelligentsia who don't realize that they're wealth is the wealth that'd be redistributed. These "hipsters" don't understand what they're really supporting.

My family's actually pretty f*cking wealthy and I'm always thinking about how much better use a couple of hundred starving africans would put to the hundreds and hundreds of pretty much unused acres of land at home.

But maybe I resent my father's wealth or something... Nah. Wait maybe. nah.
PrivateEye
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6/12/2013 8:27:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'd hardly offer up self-immolating myself in resentment of his wealth that doesn't make any sense
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/12/2013 8:28:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 8:26:11 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/12/2013 7:41:17 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I don't think Communism will ever work in it's "true" form because it's just impractical. Getting everyone to cooperate in the system will never happen. In order to crack down on dissenters who will damage the communist cause you'll have to use violence and coercion. I'd never want to live in a state like that because I know I wouldn't go along with it.

No need to crack down on dissenters, there's always self-immolation and then we could go trial and error until bliss. And then if the capitalists kill us all, well that's capitalism anyway.

Capitalism does not have the moral high ground, sorry.

It was a decent post. The biggest thing I like about it though is he rightly points out that a lot of modern day hardcore socialists and communists are middle class self proclaimed intelligentsia who don't realize that they're wealth is the wealth that'd be redistributed. These "hipsters" don't understand what they're really supporting.

My family's actually pretty f*cking wealthy and I'm always thinking about how much better use a couple of hundred starving africans would put to the hundreds and hundreds of pretty much unused acres of land at home.

But maybe I resent my father's wealth or something... Nah. Wait maybe. nah.

Well aren't you just a saint. You can give all of your money away one day sure, but I'll assure you I'll be keeping what I earn. Capitalism embodies self determination, nothing wrong with that.
PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/12/2013 8:29:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I once self-immolated. I was a kid and "defiled" our country's national game by smoking on the football pitch. I remember the first time I took coke, I thought here I go this could kill me. I spent my childhood hating that my mother smoked. I'd say I'm a decent person
PrivateEye
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6/12/2013 8:30:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A saint indeed! I might be the f*cking messiah only my powers don't seem to have kicked in yet. Any day now though I'd say
PrivateEye
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6/12/2013 8:32:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I like my father too really, it's just sometimes i feel as though he's God and this is all his sick twisted joke and it's annoying...
drhead
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6/12/2013 9:28:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 7:41:17 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I don't think Communism will ever work in it's "true" form because it's just impractical. Getting everyone to cooperate in the system will never happen. In order to crack down on dissenters who will damage the communist cause you'll have to use violence and coercion. I'd never want to live in a state like that because I know I wouldn't go along with it.

It was a decent post. The biggest thing I like about it though is he rightly points out that a lot of modern day hardcore socialists and communists are middle class self proclaimed intelligentsia who don't realize that they're wealth is the wealth that'd be redistributed. These "hipsters" don't understand what they're really supporting.

All you'd have to do is stop giving them their share of the resources (including land). They would figure it out sooner or later.

However, the cultural changes required for communism would be immense.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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6/13/2013 5:00:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Basically it is saying that in communism all the rich will leave, causing the poor to starve. By contrast, the rich people without having people working for them or producing good will be able top magic up more food and survive with ease.

Yes, if all the rich people leave the country will collapse. Likewise, if all the poor leave, the county will collapse. The same argument can be used against any ideology, which is why radical reform doesn't work. Communist revolution is the most likely one, however (of any revolutionary change all things being equal) because in most countries the economy will recover with the poor running the economy, add there are still enough people to function, and enough people to run an agrarian society. Moreover, the principle behind communism is that there is not a universal absolute human nature of self serving attitudes, but people are capable of being motivated by non-materialist means of the good on itself off a hard days graft.

To be clear before I am universally insulted, I am not a communist. I also question the 4chan (?) posters knowledge of communism, but really not relevant.
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Contra
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6/13/2013 9:13:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 4:52:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
http://i.imgur.com...

This basically describes what happened in the USSR and why communism was such a horrible failure.

People love to say that "the USSR wasn't real communism" when discussing the USSR. However, based on reality constrains, there's really no good way to implement it, unless anyone has any critiques.

Thoughts?

It's great, but the only flaw is that America has one of the highest agricultural outputs of any nation on Earth, if I'm not mistaken. We export plenty of crops.

Needless to say, it would probably change if America became communist.
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darkkermit
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6/13/2013 9:18:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 9:13:19 PM, Contra wrote:
At 6/12/2013 4:52:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
http://i.imgur.com...

This basically describes what happened in the USSR and why communism was such a horrible failure.

People love to say that "the USSR wasn't real communism" when discussing the USSR. However, based on reality constrains, there's really no good way to implement it, unless anyone has any critiques.

Thoughts?

It's great, but the only flaw is that America has one of the highest agricultural outputs of any nation on Earth, if I'm not mistaken. We export plenty of crops.

Needless to say, it would probably change if America became communist.

We do but we also have a huge nation filled. But, you're probably right that the US wouldn't starve if we didn't have a source of agricultural imports.
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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/13/2013 9:35:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 9:13:19 PM, Contra wrote:
At 6/12/2013 4:52:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
http://i.imgur.com...

This basically describes what happened in the USSR and why communism was such a horrible failure.

People love to say that "the USSR wasn't real communism" when discussing the USSR. However, based on reality constrains, there's really no good way to implement it, unless anyone has any critiques.

Thoughts?

It's great, but the only flaw is that America has one of the highest agricultural outputs of any nation on Earth, if I'm not mistaken. We export plenty of crops.

Needless to say, it would probably change if America became communist.

So does the USSR and they still starved.
Ore_Ele
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6/13/2013 10:05:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 9:35:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/13/2013 9:13:19 PM, Contra wrote:
At 6/12/2013 4:52:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
http://i.imgur.com...

This basically describes what happened in the USSR and why communism was such a horrible failure.

People love to say that "the USSR wasn't real communism" when discussing the USSR. However, based on reality constrains, there's really no good way to implement it, unless anyone has any critiques.

Thoughts?

It's great, but the only flaw is that America has one of the highest agricultural outputs of any nation on Earth, if I'm not mistaken. We export plenty of crops.

Needless to say, it would probably change if America became communist.

So does the USSR and they still starved.

Russia's problem wasn't communism with this, but with taking away smart people and directing them to do other things. That is an issue with the leaders, not the ideology.

At the time, Russia was wanting to get to where we are now (highly mechanized farming, requiring little labor), but in doing so, they took the skill away so the skill could plan, then left a bunch of unskilled trying to figure out how to keep going and learn new equipment. Of course, as through competition, some individuals did better and learned faster, but the setup that they went with (depending on if you want to look at the "state run" or the "collective") came with its own problems. Mostly for the state run, their issue was focusing on politics and party loyalty, rather than where it needed to be on skill and countryman loyalty.

Communism is not about party loyalty, that is a corruption of the idea, which usually only presents at when it is forced at high volume over a very short time.

When communism is done through small scale communes, and allowed to grow, it can actually work.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/14/2013 1:14:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 10:05:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/13/2013 9:35:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/13/2013 9:13:19 PM, Contra wrote:
At 6/12/2013 4:52:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
http://i.imgur.com...

This basically describes what happened in the USSR and why communism was such a horrible failure.

People love to say that "the USSR wasn't real communism" when discussing the USSR. However, based on reality constrains, there's really no good way to implement it, unless anyone has any critiques.

Thoughts?

It's great, but the only flaw is that America has one of the highest agricultural outputs of any nation on Earth, if I'm not mistaken. We export plenty of crops.

Needless to say, it would probably change if America became communist.

So does the USSR and they still starved.

Russia's problem wasn't communism with this, but with taking away smart people and directing them to do other things. That is an issue with the leaders, not the ideology.

At the time, Russia was wanting to get to where we are now (highly mechanized farming, requiring little labor), but in doing so, they took the skill away so the skill could plan, then left a bunch of unskilled trying to figure out how to keep going and learn new equipment. Of course, as through competition, some individuals did better and learned faster, but the setup that they went with (depending on if you want to look at the "state run" or the "collective") came with its own problems. Mostly for the state run, their issue was focusing on politics and party loyalty, rather than where it needed to be on skill and countryman loyalty.

Communism is not about party loyalty, that is a corruption of the idea, which usually only presents at when it is forced at high volume over a very short time.

When communism is done through small scale communes, and allowed to grow, it can actually work.

I actually don't have a problem with small scale communes, although do you mean grow as expand to the scale of millions? Then I can see a breakdown.

Communes do exist in the US and it depends on what you define as a commune (worker commune, living commune).
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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/14/2013 2:54:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/14/2013 1:14:39 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/13/2013 10:05:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/13/2013 9:35:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/13/2013 9:13:19 PM, Contra wrote:
At 6/12/2013 4:52:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
http://i.imgur.com...

This basically describes what happened in the USSR and why communism was such a horrible failure.

People love to say that "the USSR wasn't real communism" when discussing the USSR. However, based on reality constrains, there's really no good way to implement it, unless anyone has any critiques.

Thoughts?

It's great, but the only flaw is that America has one of the highest agricultural outputs of any nation on Earth, if I'm not mistaken. We export plenty of crops.

Needless to say, it would probably change if America became communist.

So does the USSR and they still starved.

Russia's problem wasn't communism with this, but with taking away smart people and directing them to do other things. That is an issue with the leaders, not the ideology.

At the time, Russia was wanting to get to where we are now (highly mechanized farming, requiring little labor), but in doing so, they took the skill away so the skill could plan, then left a bunch of unskilled trying to figure out how to keep going and learn new equipment. Of course, as through competition, some individuals did better and learned faster, but the setup that they went with (depending on if you want to look at the "state run" or the "collective") came with its own problems. Mostly for the state run, their issue was focusing on politics and party loyalty, rather than where it needed to be on skill and countryman loyalty.

Communism is not about party loyalty, that is a corruption of the idea, which usually only presents at when it is forced at high volume over a very short time.

When communism is done through small scale communes, and allowed to grow, it can actually work.

I actually don't have a problem with small scale communes, although do you mean grow as expand to the scale of millions? Then I can see a breakdown.

Communes do exist in the US and it depends on what you define as a commune (worker commune, living commune).

But Communism's true vision is a global utopia. It's meant to be applied to the entirety of humanity.
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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6/14/2013 12:26:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/14/2013 2:54:47 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/14/2013 1:14:39 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/13/2013 10:05:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/13/2013 9:35:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/13/2013 9:13:19 PM, Contra wrote:
At 6/12/2013 4:52:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
http://i.imgur.com...

This basically describes what happened in the USSR and why communism was such a horrible failure.

People love to say that "the USSR wasn't real communism" when discussing the USSR. However, based on reality constrains, there's really no good way to implement it, unless anyone has any critiques.

Thoughts?

It's great, but the only flaw is that America has one of the highest agricultural outputs of any nation on Earth, if I'm not mistaken. We export plenty of crops.

Needless to say, it would probably change if America became communist.

So does the USSR and they still starved.

Russia's problem wasn't communism with this, but with taking away smart people and directing them to do other things. That is an issue with the leaders, not the ideology.

At the time, Russia was wanting to get to where we are now (highly mechanized farming, requiring little labor), but in doing so, they took the skill away so the skill could plan, then left a bunch of unskilled trying to figure out how to keep going and learn new equipment. Of course, as through competition, some individuals did better and learned faster, but the setup that they went with (depending on if you want to look at the "state run" or the "collective") came with its own problems. Mostly for the state run, their issue was focusing on politics and party loyalty, rather than where it needed to be on skill and countryman loyalty.

Communism is not about party loyalty, that is a corruption of the idea, which usually only presents at when it is forced at high volume over a very short time.

When communism is done through small scale communes, and allowed to grow, it can actually work.

I actually don't have a problem with small scale communes, although do you mean grow as expand to the scale of millions? Then I can see a breakdown.

Communes do exist in the US and it depends on what you define as a commune (worker commune, living commune).

But Communism's true vision is a global utopia. It's meant to be applied to the entirety of humanity.

Have a lot of communes?