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What portion of DDO members are libertarian?

rockwater
Posts: 273
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6/21/2013 8:40:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
As a non-libertarian liberal new to DDO, I have noticed that a lot of posters here seem to be libertarian. Are libertarians a majority here or just a very vocal minority?
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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6/21/2013 12:09:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A pretty good proportion of the active members are libertarians but it seems to have been on the decline this past year...don't be afraid to post your thoughts though, we (or I at least for sure) welcome more liberal voices
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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/21/2013 12:28:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
They're certainly not a minority and even those who aren't self proclaimed libertarians usually hold a lot of libertarian views (like myself).
rockwater
Posts: 273
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6/21/2013 1:01:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm not afraid of libertarians. What are they going to do, non-coerce me to death?

I've spent most of my life in pretty liberal places, but I wouldn't mind being somewhere where my views were in the minority, as long as everyone treats everyone else respectfully.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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6/21/2013 1:09:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 1:01:12 PM, rockwater wrote:
I'm not afraid of libertarians. What are they going to do, non-coerce me to death?

So perfect I sigged.

I've spent most of my life in pretty liberal places, but I wouldn't mind being somewhere where my views were in the minority, as long as everyone treats everyone else respectfully.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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6/21/2013 1:12:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 1:01:12 PM, rockwater wrote:
I'm not afraid of libertarians. What are they going to do, non-coerce me to death?

I've spent most of my life in pretty liberal places, but I wouldn't mind being somewhere where my views were in the minority, as long as everyone treats everyone else respectfully.

A libertarian viewpoint is not diametrically opposed to a "liberal" viewpoint. At the heart of libertarian principles is social progressivism...just that this progressivism should involve minimal government interference and not outright socialism.

There could very easily be a Democratic libertarian movement, for example.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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6/21/2013 1:20:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
They're not a majority on the site, but close. http://www.debate.org... Among active members there are plenty of them.

Some years ago libertarians were the loudest voices on the forums. It tended to be dull at times.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/21/2013 1:24:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 1:20:07 PM, Mirza wrote:
They're not a majority on the site, but close. http://www.debate.org... Among active members there are plenty of them.

Some years ago libertarians were the loudest voices on the forums. It tended to be dull at times.

problem w/ that is it includes the entire population and not just the regulars. Include only the regulars and its much higher. Like lol at DDO being 36% female.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/21/2013 3:00:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 1:12:23 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
A libertarian viewpoint is not diametrically opposed to a "liberal" viewpoint. At the heart of libertarian principles is social progressivism...just that this progressivism should involve minimal government interference and not outright socialism.

There could very easily be a Democratic libertarian movement, for example.

Completely and utterly FALSE. Social Liberalism is about equality and social justice, two things that Libertarianism completely rejects.

"Liberalism is totalitarianism with a human face."
-- Thomas Sowell (Libertarian thinker)

"Envy plus rhetoric equals 'social justice.'"
-- Thomas Sowell
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/21/2013 3:12:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 1:12:23 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 6/21/2013 1:01:12 PM, rockwater wrote:
I'm not afraid of libertarians. What are they going to do, non-coerce me to death?

I've spent most of my life in pretty liberal places, but I wouldn't mind being somewhere where my views were in the minority, as long as everyone treats everyone else respectfully.

A libertarian viewpoint is not diametrically opposed to a "liberal" viewpoint.

I'd go further and point out libertarianism is a liberalism. It is the classical liberalism, in fact.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/21/2013 3:18:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:16:27 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I keep drifting closer and closer to being libertarian but I don't know if I qualify as a full one yet or not.

No I'm still definitely not.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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6/21/2013 3:18:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:12:46 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I'd go further and point out libertarianism is a liberalism. It is the classical liberalism, in fact.
Some countries use the term Liberal for Libertarian. They do that in Scandinavia and the Balkans, for example.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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6/21/2013 3:19:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:16:27 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I keep drifting closer and closer to being libertarian but I don't know if I qualify as a full one yet or not.

Meh. You could probably fit in well with a few of those fellows at the Mises institute. They tend to support conservative causes like restricting abortion and supporting borders and state restrictions on immigration.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/21/2013 3:20:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:18:45 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:12:46 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I'd go further and point out libertarianism is a liberalism. It is the classical liberalism, in fact.
Some countries use the term Liberal for Libertarian. They do that in Scandinavia and the Balkans, for example.

The original term "liberal", the one used more widely around the globe is very close to American libertarianism. The American liberals ruined the word liberal by doing everything the opposite of classical liberalism yet retaining the name.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/21/2013 3:20:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:19:02 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:16:27 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I keep drifting closer and closer to being libertarian but I don't know if I qualify as a full one yet or not.

Meh. You could probably fit in well with a few of those fellows at the Mises institute. They tend to support conservative causes like restricting abortion and supporting borders and state restrictions on immigration.

That sounds right up my alley.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/21/2013 3:22:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why is it that everyone agrees that there was a pretty overwhelming libertarian presence last year. Yet, that very same year, when I claimed that there was a libertarian presence, everyone denied it (oberherr, CP, freedo etc.)?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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6/21/2013 3:46:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:23:22 PM, Cermank wrote:
I sometimes think everyone is a little communist. They just don't like admitting it.

I assure you that I'm not. Though, sometimes I can be a bit of a fascist.
Tsar of DDO
Rhett_Butler
Posts: 43
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6/21/2013 3:47:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:46:20 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:23:22 PM, Cermank wrote:
I sometimes think everyone is a little communist. They just don't like admitting it.

I assure you that I'm not. Though, sometimes I can be a bit of a fascist.

Third option for the win lol.
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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6/21/2013 3:52:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:47:43 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:46:20 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:23:22 PM, Cermank wrote:
I sometimes think everyone is a little communist. They just don't like admitting it.

I assure you that I'm not. Though, sometimes I can be a bit of a fascist.

Third option for the win lol.

Whenever I say things like: "I think there should be four years of compulsive military service for every man or woman over the age of 18 to be served before entry to college" or "there are many benefits to a command economy" or "people should not have the freedom to make stupid decisions" or "hard labor should replace prison time" ...people tend to call me a fascist.
Tsar of DDO
Rhett_Butler
Posts: 43
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6/21/2013 4:01:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:52:18 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:47:43 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:46:20 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:23:22 PM, Cermank wrote:
I sometimes think everyone is a little communist. They just don't like admitting it.

I assure you that I'm not. Though, sometimes I can be a bit of a fascist.

Third option for the win lol.

Whenever I say things like: "I think there should be four years of compulsive military service for every man or woman over the age of 18 to be served before entry to college" or "there are many benefits to a command economy" or "people should not have the freedom to make stupid decisions" or "hard labor should replace prison time" ...people tend to call me a fascist.

All very good concepts, all would honestly provide some very beneficial changes to society, though it's a bit like something out of Robert Heinlein's dreams. My only disagreement is the one where you say "people should not have the freedom to make stupid decisions," I feel that people should be free to make their stupid decisions, as long as we don't have to pay for them.

That said, Fascism is more like a cuss-word than a concept now-days.

As George Orwell put it;
"The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies something not desirable."

Not desirable by who is, in modern America, left open to interpretation. I'm going to have to get back to you on New Criticism at some point, haha.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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6/21/2013 4:16:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:22:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why is it that everyone agrees that there was a pretty overwhelming libertarian presence last year. Yet, that very same year, when I claimed that there was a libertarian presence, everyone denied it (oberherr, CP, freedo etc.)?

You didn't *just* claim there was a libertarian presence.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/21/2013 4:19:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:16:48 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:22:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why is it that everyone agrees that there was a pretty overwhelming libertarian presence last year. Yet, that very same year, when I claimed that there was a libertarian presence, everyone denied it (oberherr, CP, freedo etc.)?

You didn't *just* claim there was a libertarian presence.

Yes I did.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/21/2013 4:20:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:19:14 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:16:48 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:22:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why is it that everyone agrees that there was a pretty overwhelming libertarian presence last year. Yet, that very same year, when I claimed that there was a libertarian presence, everyone denied it (oberherr, CP, freedo etc.)?

You didn't *just* claim there was a libertarian presence.

Yes I did.

and that was EXACTLY what they disputed. So yeah, my comment stands. You're wrong.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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6/21/2013 4:21:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 3:52:18 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:47:43 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:46:20 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:23:22 PM, Cermank wrote:
I sometimes think everyone is a little communist. They just don't like admitting it.

I assure you that I'm not. Though, sometimes I can be a bit of a fascist.

Third option for the win lol.

Whenever I say things like: "I think there should be four years of compulsive military service for every man or woman over the age of 18 to be served before entry to college" or "there are many benefits to a command economy" or "people should not have the freedom to make stupid decisions" or "hard labor should replace prison time" ...people tend to call me a fascist.

Gee I wonder why.

Tells me if you'd like debating any of those resolutions. I'll whip something up in July.
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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6/21/2013 4:23:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:21:23 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:52:18 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:47:43 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:46:20 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:23:22 PM, Cermank wrote:
I sometimes think everyone is a little communist. They just don't like admitting it.

I assure you that I'm not. Though, sometimes I can be a bit of a fascist.

Third option for the win lol.

Whenever I say things like: "I think there should be four years of compulsive military service for every man or woman over the age of 18 to be served before entry to college" or "there are many benefits to a command economy" or "people should not have the freedom to make stupid decisions" or "hard labor should replace prison time" ...people tend to call me a fascist.

Gee I wonder why.

Tells me if you'd like debating any of those resolutions. I'll whip something up in July.

I'd love to debate hard labor. I'll argue any of them in the forum, but I'm not going to have my ELO fvcked up for any of the others.
Tsar of DDO
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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6/21/2013 4:26:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:20:39 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:19:14 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:16:48 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:22:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why is it that everyone agrees that there was a pretty overwhelming libertarian presence last year. Yet, that very same year, when I claimed that there was a libertarian presence, everyone denied it (oberherr, CP, freedo etc.)?

You didn't *just* claim there was a libertarian presence.

Yes I did.

and that was EXACTLY what they disputed. So yeah, my comment stands. You're wrong.

Bring up the threads perhaps?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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6/21/2013 4:31:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:23:46 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:21:23 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:52:18 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:47:43 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:46:20 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 3:23:22 PM, Cermank wrote:
I sometimes think everyone is a little communist. They just don't like admitting it.

I assure you that I'm not. Though, sometimes I can be a bit of a fascist.

Third option for the win lol.

Whenever I say things like: "I think there should be four years of compulsive military service for every man or woman over the age of 18 to be served before entry to college" or "there are many benefits to a command economy" or "people should not have the freedom to make stupid decisions" or "hard labor should replace prison time" ...people tend to call me a fascist.

Gee I wonder why.

Tells me if you'd like debating any of those resolutions. I'll whip something up in July.

I'd love to debate hard labor. I'll argue any of them in the forum, but I'm not going to have my ELO fvcked up for any of the others.

You took the easy way out! I kind of agree with you there. I can play devils advocate though. I'll probably send you a challenge in July.

Chicken.