Total Posts:21|Showing Posts:1-21
Jump to topic:

Paula Deen & N-Word: Did she earn the hatred?

Rhett_Butler
Posts: 43
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:21:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We've all noticed that Paula Deen has become the poster-child for racism within the past week. In media outlets across America, she is a top story for allegedly saying the N-word to an ex-employee, and is now being involved in a lawsuit involving the matter.

Now, it seems that the persecution has spanned to an even greater point. She has even lost her television program on the Food Network. Do you think that she has earned the hatred that she has gotten across the spectrum?

Here are articles surrounding the issue:
http://www.nytimes.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.usatoday.com...

Additionally, I'd like you to watch these video in relation to the matter:

What do you think? Did she earn the hatred?
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:27:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What was the context in which she used the word?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:33:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Paula Dean is an old, white southern woman who was born and raised in the Jim Crow south. Despite that, I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to think that she actually a racist -which is why I take profound issue with the bad press that she's been getting because of this.

By ostracizing Paula Dean, the truly racist in this country become more so because they feel like she has been made a victim and the greater problem of real discrimination is not discussed because an old grandmother made a passing remark. Should Paula Dean have said what she said? Probably not. Do I hold it against her that she did? No. Why? She is from another time.

Now, if she went to a Klan rally or made an "Aryan Nation" souffle, then I would take issue with her... but the media reaction to her comments has been monstrously idiotic both in principle and effect.
Tsar of DDO
Rhett_Butler
Posts: 43
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:39:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:27:46 PM, Noumena wrote:
What was the context in which she used the word?

I don't think it really matters what context she used it in when she LOST A JOB, while a movie where people aggressively and hatefully called one another the N-word received countless rave reviews and a box office total earning of $423,983,600.

...that's Four hunded and twenty three million, nine hundred eighty three thousand, six hundred dollars.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com...

..all the while using the N-word in the most derogatory manner conceivable.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:40:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I thought she was being sued for racial and sexual harassment, and her admittance of using the N-word, while being questioned was just an aside that made the suit seem less questionable.

Regardless, saying the N word isn't okay in any context. That she says it at all is evidence that she doesn't treat the word with the aversion that our modern culture demands. Should she be fired? perhaps. Should she be suspended from the show? Certainly.

It could be, though, that Deen is being targeted BECAUSE she is such a poster child for traditional southern culture, so people always look at her with suspicions of racism and jump at the slightest evidence that could be perceived toward that.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
YYW
Posts: 36,289
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:41:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:40:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I thought she was being sued for racial and sexual harassment, and her admittance of using the N-word, while being questioned was just an aside that made the suit seem less questionable.

Regardless, saying the N word isn't okay in any context.

What about when someone like... Bernie Mac said it?

That she says it at all is evidence that she doesn't treat the word with the aversion that our modern culture demands. Should she be fired? perhaps. Should she be suspended from the show? Certainly.

It could be, though, that Deen is being targeted BECAUSE she is such a poster child for traditional southern culture, so people always look at her with suspicions of racism and jump at the slightest evidence that could be perceived toward that.
Tsar of DDO
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:45:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:39:25 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:27:46 PM, Noumena wrote:
What was the context in which she used the word?

I don't think it really matters what context she used it in when she LOST A JOB,

I think it does which is why I asked.

while a movie where people aggressively and hatefully called one another the N-word received countless rave reviews and a box office total earning of $423,983,600.

...that's Four hunded and twenty three million, nine hundred eighty three thousand, six hundred dollars.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com...

..all the while using the N-word in the most derogatory manner conceivable.

Yeah I only watch movies set in 1850's Georgia that don't do that.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:47:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:40:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I thought she was being sued for racial and sexual harassment, and her admittance of using the N-word, while being questioned was just an aside that made the suit seem less questionable.

Regardless, saying the N word isn't okay in any context.

Really?

That she says it at all is evidence that she doesn't treat the word with the aversion that our modern culture demands. Should she be fired? perhaps. Should she be suspended from the show? Certainly.

It could be, though, that Deen is being targeted BECAUSE she is such a poster child for traditional southern culture, so people always look at her with suspicions of racism and jump at the slightest evidence that could be perceived toward that.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Rhett_Butler
Posts: 43
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:49:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:40:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
Regardless, saying the N word isn't okay in any context. That she says it at all is evidence that she doesn't treat the word with the aversion that our modern culture demands. Should she be fired? perhaps. Should she be suspended from the show? Certainly.

It could be, though, that Deen is being targeted BECAUSE she is such a poster child for traditional southern culture, so people always look at her with suspicions of racism and jump at the slightest evidence that could be perceived toward that.

So you mean our "Modern culture" demands that we don't say the N-word? Well, how do we explain the rap industry?

..And they've already destroyed the south three times, so I don't see why they feel the need to beat the dead horse 'till it's insides are all mushy. It's kind of a wasted effort, if you ask me.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:51:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:41:38 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:40:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I thought she was being sued for racial and sexual harassment, and her admittance of using the N-word, while being questioned was just an aside that made the suit seem less questionable.

Regardless, saying the N word isn't okay in any context.

What about when someone like... Bernie Mac said it?

I'm not defending America's culture, I'm just explaining it,...to be clear. It is socially acceptable for a comedian, especially an African American comedian, to use the N word either in a joke or as a general "term of endearment." It is NOT socially acceptable for a caucasian southern lady to use it in a serious and retaliatory context to an event involving an African American person.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Rhett_Butler
Posts: 43
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:53:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:45:58 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:39:25 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:27:46 PM, Noumena wrote:
What was the context in which she used the word?

I don't think it really matters what context she used it in when she LOST A JOB,

I think it does which is why I asked.

while a movie where people aggressively and hatefully called one another the N-word received countless rave reviews and a box office total earning of $423,983,600.

...that's Four hunded and twenty three million, nine hundred eighty three thousand, six hundred dollars.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com...

..all the while using the N-word in the most derogatory manner conceivable.

Yeah I only watch movies set in 1850's Georgia that don't do that.

One sentence responses, every time. Short and simple, always a smart-assed remark.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:57:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:53:30 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:45:58 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:39:25 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:27:46 PM, Noumena wrote:
What was the context in which she used the word?

I don't think it really matters what context she used it in when she LOST A JOB,

I think it does which is why I asked.

while a movie where people aggressively and hatefully called one another the N-word received countless rave reviews and a box office total earning of $423,983,600.

...that's Four hunded and twenty three million, nine hundred eighty three thousand, six hundred dollars.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com...

..all the while using the N-word in the most derogatory manner conceivable.

Yeah I only watch movies set in 1850's Georgia that don't do that.

One sentence responses, every time. Short and simple, always a smart-assed remark.

Do you really think a movie like Django Unchained would have made any sense if it tip toed around the fact that the word used to be extremely prevalent and socially acceptable?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 4:58:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:51:18 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:41:38 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:40:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I thought she was being sued for racial and sexual harassment, and her admittance of using the N-word, while being questioned was just an aside that made the suit seem less questionable.

Regardless, saying the N word isn't okay in any context.

What about when someone like... Bernie Mac said it?

I'm not defending America's culture, I'm just explaining it,...to be clear. It is socially acceptable for a comedian, especially an African American comedian, to use the N word either in a joke or as a general "term of endearment." It is NOT socially acceptable for a caucasian southern lady to use it in a serious and retaliatory context to an event involving an African American person.

remember that I don't traffic in justifying prescriptions for self-conduct, so have no objective objection to or support for this culture. I personally don't find it fair, and perhaps those that conceive of fairness in the same way I do will be subjectively persuaded against destroying this woman's career, but it is what it is.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
Posts: 14,348
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 5:06:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm not aware of the full situation but if she lost her job over saying niggger that's pretty messed up. Of course the TV station has the right to fire her at any time for any reason
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 5:15:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 5:06:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
I'm not aware of the full situation but if she lost her job over saying niggger that's pretty messed up. Of course the TV station has the right to fire her at any time for any reason


really? Rights aren't an end in themselves, they're clearly the "immortalization" of our ethical sentiments (which can't be logically justified). So, so long as we act based on our collective interests and perceptions of what is right, why can't we just make it illegal for a company to fire you because you're, say, Mexican? Libertarian ethics seems to appeal to logical justification, and so long as it does so it can't contain language like "rights," and in the case that we admit that we're just protecting our collective interests and calling it morality, then there can be no real regulating argument against such and such law/action. Given that (I'd like to believe) we all find it reprehensible for a company to fire someone for no reason, it is perfectly acceptable for the government to codify that repulsion in the law.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
Posts: 14,348
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 5:21:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 5:15:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/21/2013 5:06:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
I'm not aware of the full situation but if she lost her job over saying niggger that's pretty messed up. Of course the TV station has the right to fire her at any time for any reason


really? Rights aren't an end in themselves, they're clearly the "immortalization" of our ethical sentiments (which can't be logically justified). So, so long as we act based on our collective interests and perceptions of what is right, why can't we just make it illegal for a company to fire you because you're, say, Mexican?

Because companies have a right to fire people for whatever reason they want. It's the idea of free association

Libertarian ethics seems to appeal to logical justification, and so long as it does so it can't contain language like "rights,"

That's a pretty big assertion.

and in the case that we admit that we're just protecting our collective interests and calling it morality,

But we aren't.

You basically just argued that the government can do whatever it wants as long as it conforms to the depraved whims of the mob, but ethics is more than that, it's about what's inherently right and wrong not what society values. I know you understand this distinction and you shouldn't just presume subjective morality in your arguments. But I have literally 0 interest in arguing about ethics so I won't reply after this.

then there can be no real regulating argument against such and such law/action. Given that (I'd like to believe) we all find it reprehensible for a company to fire someone for no reason, it is perfectly acceptable for the government to codify that repulsion in the law.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Rhett_Butler
Posts: 43
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 5:22:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:57:14 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:53:30 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:45:58 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:39:25 PM, Rhett_Butler wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:27:46 PM, Noumena wrote:
What was the context in which she used the word?

I don't think it really matters what context she used it in when she LOST A JOB,

I think it does which is why I asked.

while a movie where people aggressively and hatefully called one another the N-word received countless rave reviews and a box office total earning of $423,983,600.

...that's Four hunded and twenty three million, nine hundred eighty three thousand, six hundred dollars.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com...

..all the while using the N-word in the most derogatory manner conceivable.

Yeah I only watch movies set in 1850's Georgia that don't do that.

One sentence responses, every time. Short and simple, always a smart-assed remark.

Do you really think a movie like Django Unchained would have made any sense if it tip toed around the fact that the word used to be extremely prevalent and socially acceptable?

Being a representation of history clearly was not the goal of the movie, as its intent was to be nothing more than an action film with a clearly defined good and bad side in conflict. If saying the word is enough to get someone fired, then why is it that the entertainment industry has a free pass to use it 113 times in a film? Maybe we could route back to the other films NOT based in 1850's southern culture where the "N-word" is prominently used?

Alternatively...

Why is it that the entertainment industry has a free pass to use it in "real n* roll call" by lil' Jon?

Why is it that the entertainment industry has a free pass to use it whenever they feel like it, period?
...but Deen must be fired for it?

You can go on to defend the industry, and you can go on to defend the excommunication of Paula Deen, but one sentence at a time isn't enough to defend it all. Your counter is that the film represented the times, thus it is fine as it is. At that rate, however, you should be arguing for Paula's freedom of speech, since she apparently represents 1850's southern culture, too. What's the *real* reason why she should be hated nationally for this?
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 5:23:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 5:21:19 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 6/21/2013 5:15:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/21/2013 5:06:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
I'm not aware of the full situation but if she lost her job over saying niggger that's pretty messed up. Of course the TV station has the right to fire her at any time for any reason


really? Rights aren't an end in themselves, they're clearly the "immortalization" of our ethical sentiments (which can't be logically justified). So, so long as we act based on our collective interests and perceptions of what is right, why can't we just make it illegal for a company to fire you because you're, say, Mexican?

Because companies have a right to fire people for whatever reason they want. It's the idea of free association

Libertarian ethics seems to appeal to logical justification, and so long as it does so it can't contain language like "rights,"

That's a pretty big assertion.

and in the case that we admit that we're just protecting our collective interests and calling it morality,

But we aren't.

You basically just argued that the government can do whatever it wants as long as it conforms to the depraved whims of the mob, but ethics is more than that, it's about what's inherently right and wrong not what society values. I know you understand this distinction and you shouldn't just presume subjective morality in your arguments. But I have literally 0 interest in arguing about ethics so I won't reply after this.

I hope you'll reconsider not caring about ethical arguments - because everything you do care about arguing is so deeply entrenched in some moral assumptions - and if those assumptions are false, then everything you believe is false.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
Posts: 14,348
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 5:27:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 5:23:57 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/21/2013 5:21:19 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 6/21/2013 5:15:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/21/2013 5:06:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
I'm not aware of the full situation but if she lost her job over saying niggger that's pretty messed up. Of course the TV station has the right to fire her at any time for any reason


really? Rights aren't an end in themselves, they're clearly the "immortalization" of our ethical sentiments (which can't be logically justified). So, so long as we act based on our collective interests and perceptions of what is right, why can't we just make it illegal for a company to fire you because you're, say, Mexican?

Because companies have a right to fire people for whatever reason they want. It's the idea of free association

Libertarian ethics seems to appeal to logical justification, and so long as it does so it can't contain language like "rights,"

That's a pretty big assertion.

and in the case that we admit that we're just protecting our collective interests and calling it morality,

But we aren't.

You basically just argued that the government can do whatever it wants as long as it conforms to the depraved whims of the mob, but ethics is more than that, it's about what's inherently right and wrong not what society values. I know you understand this distinction and you shouldn't just presume subjective morality in your arguments. But I have literally 0 interest in arguing about ethics so I won't reply after this.

I hope you'll reconsider not caring about ethical arguments - because everything you do care about arguing is so deeply entrenched in some moral assumptions - and if those assumptions are false, then everything you believe is false.

Very true. I meant right now however, as I'm just relaxing and tired and not in the mood for any deep and intellectual conversations
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
tulle
Posts: 4,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 5:38:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't understand why people are so surprised :/ A few years ago, I was flipping channels and came across her show. She said "...us crackers love our butter". I was like o__O but apparently that's normal?
yang.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2013 7:23:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ya I don't think so, everyone that age is pretty racist in how they talk, especially in the south. They are just a product of the times they were raised.
I doubt she's truly a racist.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler