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Working toward a new political party

medic0506
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6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.
Lordknukle
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6/22/2013 9:35:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.


Nobody wants a social conservative anymore.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
medic0506
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6/22/2013 9:42:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 9:35:57 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.


Nobody wants a social conservative anymore.

I think you're wrong. That may be the prevalent view in the circles that you hang out with but out here in the real world, most people lean socially conservative.
Lordknukle
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6/22/2013 9:50:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 9:42:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:35:57 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.


Nobody wants a social conservative anymore.

I think you're wrong. That may be the prevalent view in the circles that you hang out with but out here in the real world, most people lean socially conservative.

Facts disagree.

http://www.gallup.com...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
medic0506
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6/22/2013 10:00:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 9:50:03 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:42:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:35:57 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.


Nobody wants a social conservative anymore.

I think you're wrong. That may be the prevalent view in the circles that you hang out with but out here in the real world, most people lean socially conservative.

Facts disagree.

http://www.gallup.com...

Why don't we have election through the use of polls?? Right, because they are not the best way of judging public support. The best way is through free and democratic elections, where one has the privacy of a voting booth, and may freely vote their conscience. So why don't we subject the issue to referendum on the state ballots?? Homosexualists don't like that free and democratic method because it conflicts with poll results. When people are allowed to vote the issue, the score is like 32-3 or something like that, in favor of traditional marriage. They even lost that vote in the liberal state of California, and had to turn to a gay judge to overturn the will of the people.
Lordknukle
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6/22/2013 10:05:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:00:19 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:50:03 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:42:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:35:57 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.


Nobody wants a social conservative anymore.

I think you're wrong. That may be the prevalent view in the circles that you hang out with but out here in the real world, most people lean socially conservative.

Facts disagree.

http://www.gallup.com...

Why don't we have election through the use of polls?? Right, because they are not the best way of judging public support.

You do know the definition of elections, right?

The best way is through free and democratic elections, where one has the privacy of a voting booth, and may freely vote their conscience. So why don't we subject the issue to referendum on the state ballots?? Homosexualists don't like that free and democratic method because it conflicts with poll results. When people are allowed to vote the issue, the score is like 32-3 or something like that, in favor of traditional marriage. They even lost that vote in the liberal state of California, and had to turn to a gay judge to overturn the will of the people.

Rhetoric is all fine and dandy. However, I presented evidence- you didn't. Homosexual marriages are recognized in nine out of fifty states, which contradicts your assumption that the score is "like 32-3 or something like that." As with all of your ridiculous, fallacious, and archaic opinions, facts are not present.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
medic0506
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6/22/2013 10:17:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:05:26 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 10:00:19 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:50:03 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:42:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:35:57 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.


Nobody wants a social conservative anymore.

I think you're wrong. That may be the prevalent view in the circles that you hang out with but out here in the real world, most people lean socially conservative.

Facts disagree.

http://www.gallup.com...

Why don't we have election through the use of polls?? Right, because they are not the best way of judging public support.

You do know the definition of elections, right?

The best way is through free and democratic elections, where one has the privacy of a voting booth, and may freely vote their conscience. So why don't we subject the issue to referendum on the state ballots?? Homosexualists don't like that free and democratic method because it conflicts with poll results. When people are allowed to vote the issue, the score is like 32-3 or something like that, in favor of traditional marriage. They even lost that vote in the liberal state of California, and had to turn to a gay judge to overturn the will of the people.

Rhetoric is all fine and dandy. However, I presented evidence- you didn't. Homosexual marriages are recognized in nine out of fifty states, which contradicts your assumption that the score is "like 32-3 or something like that." As with all of your ridiculous, fallacious, and archaic opinions, facts are not present.

Sorry, but ignorance is not evidence, nor are poll results factual representations of public support when election results contradict them. Try again with someone else.
Lordknukle
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6/22/2013 10:28:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:17:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 10:05:26 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 10:00:19 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:50:03 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:42:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:35:57 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.


Nobody wants a social conservative anymore.

I think you're wrong. That may be the prevalent view in the circles that you hang out with but out here in the real world, most people lean socially conservative.

Facts disagree.

http://www.gallup.com...

Why don't we have election through the use of polls?? Right, because they are not the best way of judging public support.

You do know the definition of elections, right?

The best way is through free and democratic elections, where one has the privacy of a voting booth, and may freely vote their conscience. So why don't we subject the issue to referendum on the state ballots?? Homosexualists don't like that free and democratic method because it conflicts with poll results. When people are allowed to vote the issue, the score is like 32-3 or something like that, in favor of traditional marriage. They even lost that vote in the liberal state of California, and had to turn to a gay judge to overturn the will of the people.

Rhetoric is all fine and dandy. However, I presented evidence- you didn't. Homosexual marriages are recognized in nine out of fifty states, which contradicts your assumption that the score is "like 32-3 or something like that." As with all of your ridiculous, fallacious, and archaic opinions, facts are not present.

Sorry, but ignorance is not evidence, nor are poll results factual representations of public support when election results contradict them. Try again with someone else.

You wanna go to the polls? Let's go there. Obama won the election while explicitly supporting homosexual marriage. That either a) people don't care about gay marriage or b) most people support gay marriage. Then again, there are a lot of factors to consider, but it still remains that most people who vote for Obama also support gay marriage. Since a) is obviously incorrect if you've ever seen the news, b) is the correct inference in this case.

Then again, I gave you facts from a very reputable source (Gallup). Gallup covered the gay marriage debate when the overwhelming majority of Americans didn't want it, and it is also covering it during the tide- it is not a biased source.

Why do you think boy scouts now allow gay scouts? The tide is turning.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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6/22/2013 10:30:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you don't present at least one statistic from a reputable source in your next post, Medic, then this argument is done and your position is forfeit.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Stephen_Hawkins
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6/22/2013 10:30:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Three things:

Firstly, while 50% of people support SSM, in the UK as a case study the people who disagree are more politically active, and the other 50% have a lot more people who are apathetic.

Secondly, again as the US shows, a three-party system does not need a majority, but around 40% of the voters in the right places.

Finally, I'm all for a third party of social conservatives in the US: it'll split the vote and your politics works in a strange way that parties will vote against each other simply because they're a different party. Then you'll have to push in PR or have a broken democracy. Go AMS! :P
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
lannan13
Posts: 23,111
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6/22/2013 10:32:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 9:35:57 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.


Nobody wants a social conservative anymore.

I do, I'm a social conservative.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Stephen_Hawkins
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6/22/2013 10:33:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also going "Polls don't matter" is saying "Statistics is wrong" or more generally "Maths is wrong". Polls are specifically designed stratified samples representative of the population.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Lordknukle
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6/22/2013 10:34:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:30:49 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Three things:

Firstly, while 50% of people support SSM, in the UK as a case study the people who disagree are more politically active, and the other 50% have a lot more people who are apathetic.

The people who really support gay marriage, e.g., the gay people, are pretty vehement about their position.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
lannan13
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6/22/2013 10:34:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.

I have to agree. That's why I like to go with the Tea Party, Constitution Party, or the Reform Party, because the modern day Republican Party just simply isn't holding up my moral values.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Lordknukle
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6/22/2013 10:35:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:32:53 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:35:57 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.


Nobody wants a social conservative anymore.

I do, I'm a social conservative.

Great. I don't care. If you can't read into my statement to mean that most people don't want it, then you have some serious deficiencies.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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6/22/2013 10:35:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:33:01 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Also going "Polls don't matter" is saying "Statistics is wrong" or more generally "Maths is wrong". Polls are specifically designed stratified samples representative of the population.

You're arguing with a person who doesn't support evolution. Math and science isn't going to get you anywhere. :)
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
000ike
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6/22/2013 11:12:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm sorry but when in human history has social conservatism ever won the argument? It's essentially glorified backwardness euphemized under "tradition."
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
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6/22/2013 11:20:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:34:15 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.

I have to agree. That's why I like to go with the Tea Party, Constitution Party, or the Reform Party, because the modern day Republican Party just simply isn't holding up my moral values.

So do you think that your moral values should be made the same values as everyone else through legislation and force?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
medic0506
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6/22/2013 11:21:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:33:01 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Also going "Polls don't matter" is saying "Statistics is wrong" or more generally "Maths is wrong". Polls are specifically designed stratified samples representative of the population.

I'm not saying that they are never right, or always wrong, but in this case the polls are contradicted heavily, by the actual vote. I'll always take election results over polls anyday.
Contra
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6/22/2013 11:23:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 11:12:57 AM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sorry but when in human history has social conservatism ever won the argument? It's essentially glorified backwardness euphemized under "tradition."

Oh that must have burned (for those holding such views).
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
DetectableNinja
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6/22/2013 11:25:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I agree. You social conservatives SHOULD have your own party. Then we can see what people REALLY want.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Enji
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6/22/2013 11:25:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.

This is actually pretty interesting - I have also heard people discuss a new Republican party because the Republicans are too focussed on social issues but they agree with the Republican economic policy.

However, such a new Republican party wouldn't attract the majority of Americans. Even amongst the Republican party, people who are solely socially conservative are very much a minority - many more people are solely fiscally conservative than are solely socially conservative. And the Republican party is not representative of Americans who overall would be much more moderate or liberal than the conservative party - especially on social issues.
Stephen_Hawkins
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6/22/2013 11:26:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:34:08 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 10:30:49 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Three things:

Firstly, while 50% of people support SSM, in the UK as a case study the people who disagree are more politically active, and the other 50% have a lot more people who are apathetic.

The people who really support gay marriage, e.g., the gay people, are pretty vehement about their position.

And they are unfortunately an extreme minority. The virulently pro-human rights and militant progressivists similarly are unfortunately a minority. The largest group in fact is the non-voter on top of that. It's unfortunate but true.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
medic0506
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6/22/2013 11:27:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:34:15 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.

I have to agree. That's why I like to go with the Tea Party, Constitution Party, or the Reform Party, because the modern day Republican Party just simply isn't holding up my moral values.

Same here, I mean is Mitt Romney really the best the republicans can do?? I don't think so. Santorum made a good showing but unfortunately most people didn't think he was electable, and they wanted almost anybody over another 4 years of Obama.
Stephen_Hawkins
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6/22/2013 11:27:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:35:48 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/22/2013 10:33:01 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Also going "Polls don't matter" is saying "Statistics is wrong" or more generally "Maths is wrong". Polls are specifically designed stratified samples representative of the population.

You're arguing with a person who doesn't support evolution. Maths and science isn't going to get you anywhere. :)

Ah yes but I am British. My accent gives me the skill needed.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
DetectableNinja
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6/22/2013 11:28:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 11:27:20 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 10:34:15 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/22/2013 9:30:25 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I think that true social conservatives, the foundation of the Republican base, should begin to distance themselves from the faux-Republicans, and explore the possibility of forming a third major party.

Libertarians, GOProud, the log cabin republicans, etc. have moved the party more further left on social issues and I think that has hurt their ability to put forth a valid candidate that the majority of Americans would support.

I have to agree. That's why I like to go with the Tea Party, Constitution Party, or the Reform Party, because the modern day Republican Party just simply isn't holding up my moral values.

Same here, I mean is Mitt Romney really the best the republicans can do?? I don't think so. Santorum made a good showing but unfortunately most people didn't think he was electable, and they wanted almost anybody over another 4 years of Obama.

That's why they elected Obama for another four years.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Stephen_Hawkins
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6/22/2013 11:28:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 11:12:57 AM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sorry but when in human history has social conservatism ever won the argument?

Napoleonic Wars. Kinda a big one.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
medic0506
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6/22/2013 11:30:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 11:23:50 AM, Contra wrote:
At 6/22/2013 11:12:57 AM, 000ike wrote:
I'm sorry but when in human history has social conservatism ever won the argument? It's essentially glorified backwardness euphemized under "tradition."

Oh that must have burned (for those holding such views).

Not a bit, consider the source.
Enji
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6/22/2013 11:30:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 10:00:19 AM, medic0506 wrote:

When people are allowed to vote the issue, the score is like 32-3 or something like that, in favor of traditional marriage.

This might be more relevant if the most recent votes weren't also the ones decided in favour of gay marriage.
Stephen_Hawkins
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6/22/2013 11:34:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 11:30:19 AM, Enji wrote:
At 6/22/2013 10:00:19 AM, medic0506 wrote:

When people are allowed to vote the issue, the score is like 32-3 or something like that, in favor of traditional marriage.

This might be more relevant if the most recent votes weren't also the ones decided in favour of gay marriage.

It'd be relevant at all if it was a) an actually solid statistic with b) a source. Because I know that 78-2 or something like that people call that not-a-statistic.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...