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Is Executive Order Just Dictatorship?

JustCheNo
Posts: 84
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6/26/2013 9:01:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Executive Order - A rule or order issued by the president bypassing the approval of Congress or the American people and having the force of law.

What's the difference between Executive Order and Dictatorship? Nothing!

On a regular basis Obama explicitly threatens to bypass Congress, thus aggregating the power to make and enforce laws in the executive. This clearly erodes the principles of separation of powers and checks and balances.

All presidents have used the power of Executive Order, but Obama has taken it to a new level. The executive branch of government was never meant to write laws, much less pass them without the consent of the American people.

Theoretically a president could launch a war without the approval of ANYONE (Obama has already launched illegal covert invasions in eight sovereign nations), or declare martial law (which happened after the Boston bombing and Hurricane Sandy), or give amnesty to millions of illegals (which happened during the Dream Act), or even to murder American citizens without trial or charges (so far the Obama administration has assassinated at least 12).

Add these Executive Orders to the confiscation of private phone records of millions of American citizens, using the IRS to silence your political opponents, threatening reporters to silence the press and what do your have? DICTATORSHIP!

Your thoughts....
"I will continue to enforce all the laws, including illegal immigration. Nothing changes." - Sheriff Joe Arpaio (American hero)
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/26/2013 9:23:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/26/2013 9:01:31 AM, JustCheNo wrote:
Executive Order - A rule or order issued by the president bypassing the approval of Congress or the American people and having the force of law.

This is a somewhat hyperbolic definition of an executive order, almost to the point of poisoning the well. There is no clear-cut definition for what an Executive order is, though a more neutral description would be an order issued by the President that aides in the operation of the executive branch in the course of its duties. Yes, it has the full force of law and, yes, it is not subject to Congressional review.

However, to say that it "bypasses" the approval of Congress suggests that everything the President does requires the approval of Congress; it implies a state of affairs that is not factual, and verges on deceit.

Regardless, everything the President does is, over time and through varying degrees of separation, subject to the approval of the American people, through the electoral process.

There has been an established basis for Executive Orders (and similar issuances) in the Constitution, but there is nothing that clearly and explicitly authorizes anything by the name of "Executive Order" except what has been established by case law (which is as valid as the Constitution, if not moreso).

The President has an entire branch of government to run and, ostensibly, Executive Orders are a means for doing that, by clarifying how it intends to execute the laws of the land and carry out its other duties.


What's the difference between Executive Order and Dictatorship? Nothing!

Plenty. An Executive Order is a singular act. A Dictatorship is a form of government. Executive Orders notwithstanding, they are not unrestrained or absolute, as is the consolidated power of a dictator. One way of noting the difference is, in a dictatorship, the only available course of action for the people to exercise control over the government is some form of rebellion or insurrection.

Regardless of what powers you attribute to Executive Orders, we still have the Judiciary and Legislative Branches, as well as the impeachment and electoral processes for checking and balancing them.

On a regular basis Obama explicitly threatens to bypass Congress, thus aggregating the power to make and enforce laws in the executive. This clearly erodes the principles of separation of powers and checks and balances.

I agree. However, we must distinguish between the mere existence and use of Executive Orders, in a general sense, and their overuse and abuse by singular individuals. Even then, until such a time as Obama completely does away with Congress and maintains power past the end of his term, we are far from a Dictatorship.

All presidents have used the power of Executive Order, but Obama has taken it to a new level. The executive branch of government was never meant to write laws, much less pass them without the consent of the American people.

Theoretically a president could launch a war without the approval of ANYONE (Obama has already launched illegal covert invasions in eight sovereign nations), or declare martial law (which happened after the Boston bombing and Hurricane Sandy), or give amnesty to millions of illegals (which happened during the Dream Act), or even to murder American citizens without trial or charges (so far the Obama administration has assassinated at least 12).

Add these Executive Orders to the confiscation of private phone records of millions of American citizens, using the IRS to silence your political opponents, threatening reporters to silence the press and what do your have? DICTATORSHIP!

Your thoughts....

Well. No. We have a government which has a tenuous grasp of civil liberties either in the pursuit of fear mongering or, perhaps, as victims of fear themselves.

It will take much more extreme and dire circumstances for America to become a dictatorship in any recognizable sense of the word, the power grabs of various presidents notwithstanding. Consider that we added an amendment to limit the terms of a President to two after Roosevelt, who was duly elected as a result of the people wanting him to be in power, rather than some sort of machinations by him or his administration to stay in power against the wishes of the people; basically we are so apprehensive of a dictatorship that we limit the tenure of presidents we like!
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/26/2013 9:59:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If there were no executive orders, than the president really doesn't have much of a job function. You know, because part of running something, involves giving orders.
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/26/2013 10:08:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The legislative arm of government makes the law, the executive enacts the law, the judiciary punishes those who break it.

The executive is elected into office by the people.

Therefore, when we elect the executive, we elect the executive to be "the best of us", or to make the decisions that we want. However, we understand that we're not omniscient, so we do not know the exact effects of legislation, nor do we know all of law, nor do we have perfect understanding of political philosophy and political science, and we also are humble enough to understand that we share power with the rest of the community. Therefore, we elect an intelligent educated official to represent us as fairly and best as possible, to do as we would like to have done in office.

Therefore, executive order is, ideally, what we would have done in the situation of office. If we are extremely under pressure, or are wrapped up in constraints which are doing much more damage than harm, executive orders means we can break away from this and force legislation to be executed. For example, in case of war, or the case of preventing war, or to stop internal crises (natural disasters or terrorism), or financial problems (a loophole in the law allowing someone to make their own money for example), or a myriad of other possibilities. However, at the end of the day, the executive is accountable, and held account by the court of public opinion at election day. And even then, can be impeached by our other representatives.
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JustCheNo
Posts: 84
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6/26/2013 11:46:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/26/2013 10:27:46 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
http://www.archives.gov...

He's the dictator that uses the EO the least.

It's doesn't matter how many times he's used it.

What matters is what he's used it for.
"I will continue to enforce all the laws, including illegal immigration. Nothing changes." - Sheriff Joe Arpaio (American hero)
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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6/26/2013 11:59:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/26/2013 11:46:30 AM, JustCheNo wrote:
At 6/26/2013 10:27:46 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
http://www.archives.gov...

He's the dictator that uses the EO the least.

It's doesn't matter how many times he's used it.

What matters is what he's used it for.

Okay, why don't you show us which executive orders Obama used in overreach of his power? We did give you a list of them, you should have no problem finding these bad executive orders.
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DanT
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6/26/2013 12:03:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/26/2013 9:01:31 AM, JustCheNo wrote:
Executive Order - A rule or order issued by the president bypassing the approval of Congress or the American people and having the force of law.
under that definition yes.
An executive order is an order regarding the administration of laws.
Some examples of executive orders are;
*Firing a staff member
*Ordering the desegregation of federal agencies
*Ordering equal opportunity employment within federal agencies
*Ordering federal employees to undergo drug tests

Basically anything to do with the management of the executive branch.
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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6/26/2013 12:08:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Executive Order
Action by the Governor in implementing his or her authority under the law.
http://www.ilga.gov...

Executive Order
A written document issued by the governor to effectuate a purpose over which he has authority.
http://www.capitol.tn.gov...

Executive Order: A declaration issued by the president or by a governor that has the force of law. Executive Orders are usually based on existing statutory authority and require no action by Congress or the state legislature to become effective. At the federal level, Executive Orders are published in the Federal Register as they are issued, and then in Statutes at Large and title 3 of the Code of Federal Regulations each year.
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Izayah003
Posts: 369
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6/26/2013 1:22:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
you guys do understand that the OP is just creating threads for the sake of drama, and trying to post his own biased hatred right, notice he just joined and so far every thread he has made has not been substantive, but just race bating and partisan crap right?
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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6/26/2013 1:26:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/26/2013 1:22:07 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
you guys do understand that the OP is just creating threads for the sake of drama, and trying to post his own biased hatred right, notice he just joined and so far every thread he has made has not been substantive, but just race bating and partisan crap right?

We're well aware.
Izayah003
Posts: 369
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6/26/2013 1:31:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/26/2013 1:26:21 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 6/26/2013 1:22:07 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
you guys do understand that the OP is just creating threads for the sake of drama, and trying to post his own biased hatred right, notice he just joined and so far every thread he has made has not been substantive, but just race bating and partisan crap right?

We're well aware.

Ok good, was just seeing if it was just me noticing this.
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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6/26/2013 1:55:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/26/2013 9:01:31 AM, JustCheNo wrote:
Executive Order - A rule or order issued by the president bypassing the approval of Congress or the American people and having the force of law.

What's the difference between Executive Order and Dictatorship? Nothing!

On a regular basis Obama explicitly threatens to bypass Congress, thus aggregating the power to make and enforce laws in the executive. This clearly erodes the principles of separation of powers and checks and balances.

All presidents have used the power of Executive Order, but Obama has taken it to a new level. The executive branch of government was never meant to write laws, much less pass them without the consent of the American people.

Theoretically a president could launch a war without the approval of ANYONE (Obama has already launched illegal covert invasions in eight sovereign nations), or declare martial law (which happened after the Boston bombing and Hurricane Sandy), or give amnesty to millions of illegals (which happened during the Dream Act), or even to murder American citizens without trial or charges (so far the Obama administration has assassinated at least 12).

Add these Executive Orders to the confiscation of private phone records of millions of American citizens, using the IRS to silence your political opponents, threatening reporters to silence the press and what do your have? DICTATORSHIP!

Your thoughts....

Before you know it, we'll start wearing red armbands and speaking German. Oh... well I've already got the latter of the two covered ;)
imabench
Posts: 21,204
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6/26/2013 4:28:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/26/2013 1:22:07 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
you guys do understand that the OP is just creating threads for the sake of drama, and trying to post his own biased hatred right, notice he just joined and so far every thread he has made has not been substantive, but just race bating and partisan crap right?

I'm aware, but the idiocy this guy spews makes great material for the weekly stupid....
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Izayah003
Posts: 369
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6/26/2013 5:48:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/26/2013 4:28:07 PM, imabench wrote:
At 6/26/2013 1:22:07 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
you guys do understand that the OP is just creating threads for the sake of drama, and trying to post his own biased hatred right, notice he just joined and so far every thread he has made has not been substantive, but just race bating and partisan crap right?

I'm aware, but the idiocy this guy spews makes great material for the weekly stupid....

very true
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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6/26/2013 9:14:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/26/2013 10:27:46 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
http://www.archives.gov...

He's the dictator that uses the EO the least.

Sure, until you notice that EOs for a President are directly proportional to how hostile the congress is towards that President.

I'd think people would be talking about signing statements, not executive orders, when it comes to tyranny.

But hey, "executive order" sounds so much evil-er, let's focus on that!