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Why don't people care about politics?

segijohe
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6/27/2013 12:45:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Apathy is the downfall of a democracy. When people don't care the majority is not accurately represented. Now, the founding fathers imagined a democracy where anyone who could form a sentence would engage in public debate. After all, this would be the most ideal society for an ideal democracy. While its foolish to expect such a reality, it is curious to think about why people don't care about something as important as politics. This is something that has really stumped me, and I want to know what you all think about it.
segijohe
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6/27/2013 12:56:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Then how do we make them, how would you say, see the light? More specifically what makes a person care about politics?
1Devilsadvocate
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6/27/2013 12:56:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Basically cuze things are going relatively well or satisfactory for most people.
Why should the individual care about politics, there isn't much they can do about anyway?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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GeoLaureate8
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6/27/2013 1:02:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 12:45:58 AM, segijohe wrote:
Apathy is the downfall of a democracy. When people don't care the majority is not accurately represented. Now, the founding fathers imagined a democracy where anyone who could form a sentence would engage in public debate. After all, this would be the most ideal society for an ideal democracy.

"It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure, deformity."
-- Alexander Hamilton
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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6/27/2013 1:05:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Public education doesn't value political debate and toes the nationalist/statist line. Kids are bred to be apathetic, submissive and patriotic.
The most engaged most people become is dem vs repub and they think issues like abortion and gay marriage are what matter most. Meanwhile the worthwhile debates, warfare/welfare state are left to the fringe and moderate politicians run on nearly identical platforms with varied rhetoric to appeal to their team.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
segijohe
Posts: 16
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6/27/2013 1:05:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 12:56:28 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Basically cuze things are going relatively well or satisfactory for most people.
Why should the individual care about politics, there isn't much they can do about anyway?

But this isn't true, there is much a person can do to change politics. It's a matter of working at the right level of government. Local elections and primaries are institutions that are designed to give any person the ability to make a real change in government.
lewis20
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6/27/2013 1:08:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also that, founding fathers new people were dumb and democracy would be a disaster without the rule of law.
Unfortunately the rule of law is being slowly choked out of the country and is being replaced with organized mob rule.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
thett3
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6/27/2013 1:11:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Whatever their opinions are, the chances that they will make any impact whatsoever is essentially 0. Why not focus on other things? I've become far more apathetic as of late
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lewis20
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6/27/2013 1:20:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 1:05:37 AM, segijohe wrote:
At 6/27/2013 12:56:28 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Basically cuze things are going relatively well or satisfactory for most people.
Why should the individual care about politics, there isn't much they can do about anyway?

But this isn't true, there is much a person can do to change politics. It's a matter of working at the right level of government. Local elections and primaries are institutions that are designed to give any person the ability to make a real change in government.

You can make trivial changes, real change isn't coming through the system, the two party system and corporate finance means you only get to pick sides of the same coin.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
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6/27/2013 1:22:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 1:11:16 AM, thett3 wrote:
Whatever their opinions are, the chances that they will make any impact whatsoever is essentially 0. Why not focus on other things? I've become far more apathetic as of late

People have trouble relinquishing control of their fate. Hard to admit defeat.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
the_croftmeister
Posts: 678
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6/27/2013 1:43:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 1:22:10 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 1:11:16 AM, thett3 wrote:
Whatever their opinions are, the chances that they will make any impact whatsoever is essentially 0. Why not focus on other things? I've become far more apathetic as of late

People have trouble relinquishing control of their fate. Hard to admit defeat.
I'd say it is the other way around, people love relinquishing control of their fate, it gives them someone else to blame when it goes wrong.
segijohe
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6/27/2013 1:44:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 1:22:10 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 1:11:16 AM, thett3 wrote:
Whatever their opinions are, the chances that they will make any impact whatsoever is essentially 0. Why not focus on other things? I've become far more apathetic as of late

People have trouble relinquishing control of their fate. Hard to admit defeat.

If this is true then why aren't more people involved in the system?
YYW
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6/27/2013 1:46:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 12:45:58 AM, segijohe wrote:
Apathy is the downfall of a democracy. When people don't care the majority is not accurately represented. Now, the founding fathers imagined a democracy where anyone who could form a sentence would engage in public debate. After all, this would be the most ideal society for an ideal democracy. While its foolish to expect such a reality, it is curious to think about why people don't care about something as important as politics. This is something that has really stumped me, and I want to know what you all think about it.

To answer your question:

Because most people have lives, obligations, work, duties, responsibilities, families, etc. (i.e. a whole lot of things that don't involve politics), they tend only to care around election season -unless they are tea partiers, then they seem to have a perpetual case of political hemorrhoids.
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lewis20
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6/27/2013 1:51:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 1:44:33 AM, segijohe wrote:
At 6/27/2013 1:22:10 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 1:11:16 AM, thett3 wrote:
Whatever their opinions are, the chances that they will make any impact whatsoever is essentially 0. Why not focus on other things? I've become far more apathetic as of late

People have trouble relinquishing control of their fate. Hard to admit defeat.

If this is true then why aren't more people involved in the system?

vast majority of people don't care, I was referring to people on the politics forum and those who actually care.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Skepsikyma
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6/27/2013 7:57:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I would say that the exact opposite is true. Mindless fervor and passion are the downfall of a democracy (which we aren't, we're a constitutional republic with some democratic qualities). Apathy is born as a side effect when these people gain control of the levers of power, and intelligent, politically astute people, who are a minority at the present, are rendered effectively powerless.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
dylancatlow
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6/27/2013 9:32:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 7:57:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I would say that the exact opposite is true. Mindless fervor and passion are the downfall of a democracy (which we aren't, we're a constitutional republic with some democratic qualities). Apathy is born as a side effect when these people gain control of the levers of power, and intelligent, politically astute people, who are a minority at the present, are rendered effectively powerless.

I think there is a lot of truth to this, but when people cling to their party and/or political convictions without scrutinizing the justifications thereof (and in some cases, caring to find if they exist at all), their interest does not go beyond the mere semblance of politics - they have an apathy to anything and everything important. So I think there is a distinction to be made. If people had an interest in politics that went beyond holding convictions, an interest which entailed a passion for properly justifying those convictions and practicing political introspection to identity and challenge their preconceived premises, I think you would agree our world would not be in the same position that it is in today. The implementation and practice of political philosophy may be lost on the politically astute when they face an electorate this ignorant, but it need not be if only the masses cared to take the same level of approach that characterizes them as the politically astute.
darkkermit
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6/27/2013 11:49:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 1:11:16 AM, thett3 wrote:
Whatever their opinions are, the chances that they will make any impact whatsoever is essentially 0. Why not focus on other things? I've become far more apathetic as of late

I'd say pretty much this. I'd also say that the effect that the gov't plays in your life is usually exaggerated by political junkies. Culture and the people I see often are the people that effect me the most. No matter what the state does, it can do little to change the way I am as a person or how I interact with others.
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lewis20
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6/27/2013 12:03:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 11:49:58 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/27/2013 1:11:16 AM, thett3 wrote:
Whatever their opinions are, the chances that they will make any impact whatsoever is essentially 0. Why not focus on other things? I've become far more apathetic as of late

I'd say pretty much this. I'd also say that the effect that the gov't plays in your life is usually exaggerated by political junkies. Culture and the people I see often are the people that effect me the most. No matter what the state does, it can do little to change the way I am as a person or how I interact with others.

Isn't that just that you're used to state intervention? You only imagine what a freer state would look like.
Also, after paying taxes I can't imagine one saying the effect the govt has on your life is over exaggerated, they take more 1/3 of your money.
Govt has a hand in everything, I can't go fishing this afternoon without getting a license.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
1Devilsadvocate
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6/27/2013 3:49:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 7:57:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I would say that the exact opposite is true. Mindless fervor and passion are the downfall of a democracy (which we aren't, we're a constitutional republic with some democratic qualities). Apathy is born as a side effect when these people gain control of the levers of power, and intelligent, politically astute people, who are a minority at the present, are rendered effectively powerless.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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Izayah003
Posts: 369
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6/27/2013 4:52:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 1:02:39 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 12:45:58 AM, segijohe wrote:
Apathy is the downfall of a democracy. When people don't care the majority is not accurately represented. Now, the founding fathers imagined a democracy where anyone who could form a sentence would engage in public debate. After all, this would be the most ideal society for an ideal democracy.

"It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure, deformity."
-- Alexander Hamilton

See segijohe, people like Geo, and his kind of thinking (i.e Tea Party thinking) is a prime example of why more people do not get into politics. some of it is due to ignorance, (and anyone who knows the definition of the term would understand why ignorance is the best word to use), while some of it is due to how broken our government is. Really there is different views on why it's broken, (liberals vs conservative views) but it is broken. There is a reason why polotics is considered to be a taboo topic anymore, that is because it almost always sparks some heated debate. in truth you will never get the full scope of the issue just by taking one side over the other, Liberals are not always right and niether is conservatives, or other party's as well, it's when you take both sides argument and find the central point where they could meet, and then you figure out the real issue.

Now it may seem like I am picking on Geo, but he has a very limited knowledge of politics, and history for that matter, and so he makes himself an easy target, one of my favorite comments he made was " I voted for Obama in 08, and now I have joined the republic" just because he thinks being a conservative republican makes him part of the republic. when in truth the first republican party was mostly made up of liberals..lmao You made the mistake of saying the word Democracy, and in his mind clicked the urge to post a quote from Alexander Hamilton, when he probably doesn't even know what true type of government we have, yes it is a republic, however we have within our government structure a democratic for of government, meaning that the people elect their representatives by majority vote.

"The American Revolution began as a rejection only of the authority of the British Parliament over the colonies, not of the monarchy. The failure of the British monarch to protect the colonies from what they considered the infringement of their rights to representative government, the monarch's branding of those requesting redress as traitors, and his support for sending combat troops to demonstrate authority resulted in widespread perception of the British monarchy as tyrannical. With the United States Declaration of Independence the leaders of the revolt firmly rejected the monarchy and embraced republicanism. The leaders of the revolution were well versed in the writings of the French liberal thinkers, and also in history of the classical republics. John Adams had notably written a book on republics throughout history. In addition, the widely distributed and popularly read-aloud tract Common Sense, by Thomas Paine, succinctly and eloquently laid out the case for republican ideals and independence to the larger public. The Constitution of the United States ratified in 1789 created a relatively strong federal republic to replace the relatively weak confederation under the first attempt at a national government with the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union ratified in 1783. The first ten amendments to the Constitution, called the United States Bill of Rights, guaranteed certain natural rights fundamental to republican ideals that justified the Revolution."

I myself do not claim to always be right, to be honest I have changed my views many times as the facts have led me to do, but the whole reason i got into politics to begin with was i was tired of complaining about something, yet not knowing what it was i was complaining about. Also the media, on both sides do not help the cause either, that is why I choose to watch CSPAN when there is a controversial Bill being voted on, if made into law I read the PDF of the law itself, not the talking points of other people, and i debate those who i know will disagree with me, because it is by debating something that we disagree on that we find common ground, even if it is as simple as agreeing to disagree.

Hope that helps answer your question.
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
lewis20
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6/27/2013 5:08:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 4:52:47 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 1:02:39 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 12:45:58 AM, segijohe wrote:
Apathy is the downfall of a democracy. When people don't care the majority is not accurately represented. Now, the founding fathers imagined a democracy where anyone who could form a sentence would engage in public debate. After all, this would be the most ideal society for an ideal democracy.

"It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure, deformity."
-- Alexander Hamilton

See segijohe, people like Geo, and his kind of thinking (i.e Tea Party thinking) is a prime example of why more people do not get into politics. some of it is due to ignorance, (and anyone who knows the definition of the term would understand why ignorance is the best word to use), while some of it is due to how broken our government is. Really there is different views on why it's broken, (liberals vs conservative views) but it is broken. There is a reason why polotics is considered to be a taboo topic anymore, that is because it almost always sparks some heated debate. in truth you will never get the full scope of the issue just by taking one side over the other, Liberals are not always right and niether is conservatives, or other party's as well, it's when you take both sides argument and find the central point where they could meet, and then you figure out the real issue.

Now it may seem like I am picking on Geo, but he has a very limited knowledge of politics, and history for that matter, and so he makes himself an easy target, one of my favorite comments he made was " I voted for Obama in 08, and now I have joined the republic" just because he thinks being a conservative republican makes him part of the republic. when in truth the first republican party was mostly made up of liberals..lmao You made the mistake of saying the word Democracy, and in his mind clicked the urge to post a quote from Alexander Hamilton, when he probably doesn't even know what true type of government we have, yes it is a republic, however we have within our government structure a democratic for of government, meaning that the people elect their representatives by majority vote.

"The American Revolution began as a rejection only of the authority of the British Parliament over the colonies, not of the monarchy. The failure of the British monarch to protect the colonies from what they considered the infringement of their rights to representative government, the monarch's branding of those requesting redress as traitors, and his support for sending combat troops to demonstrate authority resulted in widespread perception of the British monarchy as tyrannical. With the United States Declaration of Independence the leaders of the revolt firmly rejected the monarchy and embraced republicanism. The leaders of the revolution were well versed in the writings of the French liberal thinkers, and also in history of the classical republics. John Adams had notably written a book on republics throughout history. In addition, the widely distributed and popularly read-aloud tract Common Sense, by Thomas Paine, succinctly and eloquently laid out the case for republican ideals and independence to the larger public. The Constitution of the United States ratified in 1789 created a relatively strong federal republic to replace the relatively weak confederation under the first attempt at a national government with the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union ratified in 1783. The first ten amendments to the Constitution, called the United States Bill of Rights, guaranteed certain natural rights fundamental to republican ideals that justified the Revolution."

I myself do not claim to always be right, to be honest I have changed my views many times as the facts have led me to do, but the whole reason i got into politics to begin with was i was tired of complaining about something, yet not knowing what it was i was complaining about. Also the media, on both sides do not help the cause either, that is why I choose to watch CSPAN when there is a controversial Bill being voted on, if made into law I read the PDF of the law itself, not the talking points of other people, and i debate those who i know will disagree with me, because it is by debating something that we disagree on that we find common ground, even if it is as simple as agreeing to disagree.

Hope that helps answer your question.

Not sure why you bolded liberal, old French liberals were in line with modern libertarians. Bastiat wasn't an Obama democrat when he wrote 'the law'
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Izayah003
Posts: 369
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6/27/2013 5:26:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 5:08:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 4:52:47 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 1:02:39 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 12:45:58 AM, segijohe wrote:
Apathy is the downfall of a democracy. When people don't care the majority is not accurately represented. Now, the founding fathers imagined a democracy where anyone who could form a sentence would engage in public debate. After all, this would be the most ideal society for an ideal democracy.

"It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure, deformity."
-- Alexander Hamilton

See segijohe, people like Geo, and his kind of thinking (i.e Tea Party thinking) is a prime example of why more people do not get into politics. some of it is due to ignorance, (and anyone who knows the definition of the term would understand why ignorance is the best word to use), while some of it is due to how broken our government is. Really there is different views on why it's broken, (liberals vs conservative views) but it is broken. There is a reason why polotics is considered to be a taboo topic anymore, that is because it almost always sparks some heated debate. in truth you will never get the full scope of the issue just by taking one side over the other, Liberals are not always right and niether is conservatives, or other party's as well, it's when you take both sides argument and find the central point where they could meet, and then you figure out the real issue.

Now it may seem like I am picking on Geo, but he has a very limited knowledge of politics, and history for that matter, and so he makes himself an easy target, one of my favorite comments he made was " I voted for Obama in 08, and now I have joined the republic" just because he thinks being a conservative republican makes him part of the republic. when in truth the first republican party was mostly made up of liberals..lmao You made the mistake of saying the word Democracy, and in his mind clicked the urge to post a quote from Alexander Hamilton, when he probably doesn't even know what true type of government we have, yes it is a republic, however we have within our government structure a democratic for of government, meaning that the people elect their representatives by majority vote.

"The American Revolution began as a rejection only of the authority of the British Parliament over the colonies, not of the monarchy. The failure of the British monarch to protect the colonies from what they considered the infringement of their rights to representative government, the monarch's branding of those requesting redress as traitors, and his support for sending combat troops to demonstrate authority resulted in widespread perception of the British monarchy as tyrannical. With the United States Declaration of Independence the leaders of the revolt firmly rejected the monarchy and embraced republicanism. The leaders of the revolution were well versed in the writings of the French liberal thinkers, and also in history of the classical republics. John Adams had notably written a book on republics throughout history. In addition, the widely distributed and popularly read-aloud tract Common Sense, by Thomas Paine, succinctly and eloquently laid out the case for republican ideals and independence to the larger public. The Constitution of the United States ratified in 1789 created a relatively strong federal republic to replace the relatively weak confederation under the first attempt at a national government with the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union ratified in 1783. The first ten amendments to the Constitution, called the United States Bill of Rights, guaranteed certain natural rights fundamental to republican ideals that justified the Revolution."

I myself do not claim to always be right, to be honest I have changed my views many times as the facts have led me to do, but the whole reason i got into politics to begin with was i was tired of complaining about something, yet not knowing what it was i was complaining about. Also the media, on both sides do not help the cause either, that is why I choose to watch CSPAN when there is a controversial Bill being voted on, if made into law I read the PDF of the law itself, not the talking points of other people, and i debate those who i know will disagree with me, because it is by debating something that we disagree on that we find common ground, even if it is as simple as agreeing to disagree.

Hope that helps answer your question.

Not sure why you bolded liberal, old French liberals were in line with modern libertarians. Bastiat wasn't an Obama democrat when he wrote 'the law'

Right I know, I never said i disagree with all Libertarian logic... now Rand Paul libertarians, yep, he is nuts....
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
Ore_Ele
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6/27/2013 5:42:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 12:45:58 AM, segijohe wrote:
Apathy is the downfall of a democracy. When people don't care the majority is not accurately represented. Now, the founding fathers imagined a democracy where anyone who could form a sentence would engage in public debate. After all, this would be the most ideal society for an ideal democracy. While its foolish to expect such a reality, it is curious to think about why people don't care about something as important as politics. This is something that has really stumped me, and I want to know what you all think about it.

I would disagree. I don't think that not caring is the downfall. I think that politically active ignorant people are the downfall. Those that vote based on poor information, gut reaction, and emotional feelings. Those that only care enough to read a cheesy bumper sticker to get their opinion. They are going to be the cause of the fall.

It would be ideal if there were two kinds of people.

Those that didn't care AND didn't actively participate. And those that thoroughly research into their positions and engage in actual intelligent dialogue.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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6/27/2013 6:11:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 5:26:08 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 5:08:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 4:52:47 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 1:02:39 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 12:45:58 AM, segijohe wrote:
Apathy is the downfall of a democracy. When people don't care the majority is not accurately represented. Now, the founding fathers imagined a democracy where anyone who could form a sentence would engage in public debate. After all, this would be the most ideal society for an ideal democracy.

"It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure, deformity."
-- Alexander Hamilton

See segijohe, people like Geo, and his kind of thinking (i.e Tea Party thinking) is a prime example of why more people do not get into politics. some of it is due to ignorance, (and anyone who knows the definition of the term would understand why ignorance is the best word to use), while some of it is due to how broken our government is. Really there is different views on why it's broken, (liberals vs conservative views) but it is broken. There is a reason why polotics is considered to be a taboo topic anymore, that is because it almost always sparks some heated debate. in truth you will never get the full scope of the issue just by taking one side over the other, Liberals are not always right and niether is conservatives, or other party's as well, it's when you take both sides argument and find the central point where they could meet, and then you figure out the real issue.

Now it may seem like I am picking on Geo, but he has a very limited knowledge of politics, and history for that matter, and so he makes himself an easy target, one of my favorite comments he made was " I voted for Obama in 08, and now I have joined the republic" just because he thinks being a conservative republican makes him part of the republic. when in truth the first republican party was mostly made up of liberals..lmao You made the mistake of saying the word Democracy, and in his mind clicked the urge to post a quote from Alexander Hamilton, when he probably doesn't even know what true type of government we have, yes it is a republic, however we have within our government structure a democratic for of government, meaning that the people elect their representatives by majority vote.

"The American Revolution began as a rejection only of the authority of the British Parliament over the colonies, not of the monarchy. The failure of the British monarch to protect the colonies from what they considered the infringement of their rights to representative government, the monarch's branding of those requesting redress as traitors, and his support for sending combat troops to demonstrate authority resulted in widespread perception of the British monarchy as tyrannical. With the United States Declaration of Independence the leaders of the revolt firmly rejected the monarchy and embraced republicanism. The leaders of the revolution were well versed in the writings of the French liberal thinkers, and also in history of the classical republics. John Adams had notably written a book on republics throughout history. In addition, the widely distributed and popularly read-aloud tract Common Sense, by Thomas Paine, succinctly and eloquently laid out the case for republican ideals and independence to the larger public. The Constitution of the United States ratified in 1789 created a relatively strong federal republic to replace the relatively weak confederation under the first attempt at a national government with the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union ratified in 1783. The first ten amendments to the Constitution, called the United States Bill of Rights, guaranteed certain natural rights fundamental to republican ideals that justified the Revolution."

I myself do not claim to always be right, to be honest I have changed my views many times as the facts have led me to do, but the whole reason i got into politics to begin with was i was tired of complaining about something, yet not knowing what it was i was complaining about. Also the media, on both sides do not help the cause either, that is why I choose to watch CSPAN when there is a controversial Bill being voted on, if made into law I read the PDF of the law itself, not the talking points of other people, and i debate those who i know will disagree with me, because it is by debating something that we disagree on that we find common ground, even if it is as simple as agreeing to disagree.

Hope that helps answer your question.

Not sure why you bolded liberal, old French liberals were in line with modern libertarians. Bastiat wasn't an Obama democrat when he wrote 'the law'

Right I know, I never said i disagree with all Libertarian logic... now Rand Paul libertarians, yep, he is nuts....

Who are the liberal libertarians?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/28/2013 1:57:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 12:03:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 11:49:58 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/27/2013 1:11:16 AM, thett3 wrote:
Whatever their opinions are, the chances that they will make any impact whatsoever is essentially 0. Why not focus on other things? I've become far more apathetic as of late

I'd say pretty much this. I'd also say that the effect that the gov't plays in your life is usually exaggerated by political junkies. Culture and the people I see often are the people that effect me the most. No matter what the state does, it can do little to change the way I am as a person or how I interact with others.

Isn't that just that you're used to state intervention? You only imagine what a freer state would look like.
Also, after paying taxes I can't imagine one saying the effect the govt has on your life is over exaggerated, they take more 1/3 of your money.
Govt has a hand in everything, I can't go fishing this afternoon without getting a license.

I presume you plan on going fishing on water that doesn't belong to you or belongs to the state. In that case, the state has every right to require you to have a license.

In terms of losing 1/3 of your money, that's honestly not that big of a deal. Studies have shown that money doesn't buy happiness up to a certain threshold, and the main factors that money has in making you feel better, is knowing that you make more than others.
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sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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6/28/2013 2:37:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/27/2013 12:56:16 AM, segijohe wrote:
Then how do we make them, how would you say, see the light? More specifically what makes a person care about politics?

Stop sending out checks
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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6/29/2013 11:24:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 1:57:08 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/27/2013 12:03:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 6/27/2013 11:49:58 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/27/2013 1:11:16 AM, thett3 wrote:
Whatever their opinions are, the chances that they will make any impact whatsoever is essentially 0. Why not focus on other things? I've become far more apathetic as of late

I'd say pretty much this. I'd also say that the effect that the gov't plays in your life is usually exaggerated by political junkies. Culture and the people I see often are the people that effect me the most. No matter what the state does, it can do little to change the way I am as a person or how I interact with others.

Isn't that just that you're used to state intervention? You only imagine what a freer state would look like.
Also, after paying taxes I can't imagine one saying the effect the govt has on your life is over exaggerated, they take more 1/3 of your money.
Govt has a hand in everything, I can't go fishing this afternoon without getting a license.

I presume you plan on going fishing on water that doesn't belong to you or belongs to the state. In that case, the state has every right to require you to have a license.

In terms of losing 1/3 of your money, that's honestly not that big of a deal. Studies have shown that money doesn't buy happiness up to a certain threshold, and the main factors that money has in making you feel better, is knowing that you make more than others.

You can do better than that, states deserve to own all water ways and money can't buy happiness, that's your defense of evidence of overwhelming state interference, also I'm sure all taxes when said and done are closer to half your income.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler