Total Posts:22|Showing Posts:1-22
Jump to topic:

Political Ideology

TUF
Posts: 21,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2013 12:59:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't really have one, but I have been questioning whether I should gain one or not.I have a lot of beliefs that coincide with multiple parties, and up until now have never really wanted to fall into a specific group. But I was wondering if there was even a group that closely resembled my few political beliefs, and maybe I can attach myself to it so when people ask me what party I am, I can respond accordingly.

I'll admit, there are a lot of politics that I am un-educated/un-interested in.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2013 1:04:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Go for it, but just be open for change and don't start murdering people unnecessarily over it.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2013 1:07:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Political ideology is tricky in that a lot of people simply use it as a pre-assigned lense by which to judge incoming political or social stimuli. That's not cool m'kay. I think political ideology works only as a time-tested conclusion born out of experience and contemplation i.e., as the end (as opposed to starting) point (though strictly open to evolution) of one's political maturation

But speaking more specifically about the OP, if you don't easily fit anywhere don't force it. Unless you want to become an anarchist in which case shove it til it fits.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2013 1:08:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Come to think of it I have no idea where you would even fit in. You seem slightly liberal or (worse) even moderate. Dear god.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
TUF
Posts: 21,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 5:03:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 1:08:18 PM, Noumena wrote:
Come to think of it I have no idea where you would even fit in. You seem slightly liberal or (worse) even moderate. Dear god.

I don't even know. I wouldn't call myself a liberal. It's funny because when I joined this site, I was a hard nosed christian conservative, and now that I've pulled away from the ignorance and started thinking for my own, I have changed a few of my views. Though there are a lot of democratic view points that I still facepalm at.

IDK overall, what the fvck I am, but from your previous post, maybe it's better to not affiliate myself with a political party.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 5:07:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The main problem I have with politics, is there is so much diversity with it. So many things that I can see going both ways. But worst of all, I am not researched enough or even interested in certain things enough to do the research. I love to debate, but more about things that don't really matter as far as society is concerned. Whereas most people like to argue trending issues. That's why a lot of my debates focus around philosophy, or entertainment. Occasionally I'll test the waters and try out a political one, but they aggrivate me, and don't interest me. I am always left with the feeling of "why the fvck did I take this?"
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 5:55:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What is wrong with society? What is the ideal? How do we get there?

Answer the three questions and you'll have an ideology.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 10:19:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yer probably just an independent. With the way self identification is trending though its not a surprise. Stay out of party politics; live long and prosper.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
DeFool
Posts: 626
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 10:48:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
When we join this or that in-group, we tend to coordinate our observations, behaviors, agendas, etc., with that larger organism. This is a well understood phenomena, and there is a great deal of outstanding research that has been done on the subject. See "Crowd Psychology."

We become the larger social systems that we regularly observe and interact with. It is very difficult to avoid this - if it is even possible. This tendency to sync with your in-group is an instinctive human trait.

Once you accept that you are a "liberal" "Conservative" "Republican," or whatever, you will inevitably learn from the prominent voices within these communities things that you will trust to be "true," and which speaks on your behalf.

"Making up your own mind" is a conceit and an illusion. Even avoiding group membership does not work. You will simply in-group with the Rejectionist outliers.

Negation does not work - you are part of the human community. You have no choice in the matter. If you want to be "unique," then join yourself to as many social systems as possible - to create a unique composite identity.

If you try to avoid this, you will find yourself alone atop the high mountain, and useless.
DeFool
Posts: 626
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 10:59:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
So, I have very little patience for those who feel that they are too 'one of a kind' to belong to any group. I am happy that the author of this thread realizes that they fit in somewhere. That decaffeinates me some.

If I can help identify the political ideologies that are important to me, as I see them, I would be happy to describe my view in the following way.

We do not follow political parties because we love them. We follow them so that we can use their agenda as a tool to defeat another political party that we hate.

My advice: look about the political landscape. Somewhere there is a politician or pundit with a fat, greasy, loud face who hates something that you love - and who makes your balls curl.

Identify that pompous bastard, and the rest of your ideology will come into focus quickly.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 12:59:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 1:07:18 PM, Noumena wrote:
Political ideology is tricky in that a lot of people simply use it as a pre-assigned lense by which to judge incoming political or social stimuli. That's not cool m'kay. I think political ideology works only as a time-tested conclusion born out of experience and contemplation i.e., as the end (as opposed to starting) point (though strictly open to evolution) of one's political maturation

At 7/9/2013 5:55:41 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
What is wrong with society? What is the ideal? How do we get there?

Answer the three questions and you'll have an ideology.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
DeFool
Posts: 626
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 1:10:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 12:59:28 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 7/3/2013 1:07:18 PM, Noumena wrote:
Political ideology is tricky in that a lot of people simply use it as a pre-assigned lense by which to judge incoming political or social stimuli. That's not cool m'kay. I think political ideology works only as a time-tested conclusion born out of experience and contemplation i.e., as the end (as opposed to starting) point (though strictly open to evolution) of one's political maturation

At 7/9/2013 5:55:41 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
What is wrong with society? What is the ideal? How do we get there?

Answer the three questions and you'll have an ideology.

(Chuckling)

Hawkins and Wrichcirw are the "white angel" on your shoulder, I am the red one with horns.

Listen to me. Politics is not unlike a football game. You only cheer for your team to defeat the other one. I maintain that very few of us actually respect our political parties, or fully comprehend our ideological stances. Instead, we use our membership within these groups as a means to strengthen them enough to defeat another party.

I would like to say that most of us 'support' our worldviews rather than 'oppose' another. But, I do not think that is true, and so I cannot say it.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 1:43:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 10:59:54 AM, DeFool wrote:
So, I have very little patience for those who feel that they are too 'one of a kind' to belong to any group. I am happy that the author of this thread realizes that they fit in somewhere. That decaffeinates me some.

What's wrong with not identifying with any one political group.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 1:54:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You'll find one, and it will change. My mistake was to base my ideal political realm on my bias against certain social norms. I told one wise teacher I had that I'll never change these beliefs -- he laughed and told me there's no way around it.
DeFool
Posts: 626
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 6:34:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 1:43:24 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 7/9/2013 10:59:54 AM, DeFool wrote:
So, I have very little patience for those who feel that they are too 'one of a kind' to belong to any group. I am happy that the author of this thread realizes that they fit in somewhere. That decaffeinates me some.

What's wrong with not identifying with any one political group.

It betrays an ignorance of political groups. I do not say that rejectionism is "wrong," per se. I simply point out that it is impossible to maintain.

I'll illustrate:

Suppose that I am not a Democrat or a Republican (keeping to the political theme). Ok, I am therefore an Independent. Say further that I do not want to be "pigeonholed" into the Independent label, either. So I am "apolitical."

I cannot win. In this world of 6 billion thinking persons, there are groups of them that will think as I do. However I try, I will never be truly "unique" or "one of a kind" unless I am insane. Somewhere, there always will be a useful term that was devised long ago that defines people such as myself.

After having realized this, if I continue to say that "no political party can contain the genius of my heart" or whatnot - I am revealed to be unsatisfying to talk to about such things.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 7:53:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 12:59:38 PM, TUF wrote:
I don't really have one, but I have been questioning whether I should gain one or not.I have a lot of beliefs that coincide with multiple parties, and up until now have never really wanted to fall into a specific group. But I was wondering if there was even a group that closely resembled my few political beliefs, and maybe I can attach myself to it so when people ask me what party I am, I can respond accordingly.

I'll admit, there are a lot of politics that I am un-educated/un-interested in.

Come join the dark side, we get shat done!
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 7:55:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 1:43:24 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 7/9/2013 10:59:54 AM, DeFool wrote:
So, I have very little patience for those who feel that they are too 'one of a kind' to belong to any group. I am happy that the author of this thread realizes that they fit in somewhere. That decaffeinates me some.

What's wrong with not identifying with any one political group.

I think what he is saying is for those that believe that they are better for not being part of any group. As if being part of a group = bad.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/10/2013 12:14:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 7:55:04 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2013 1:43:24 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 7/9/2013 10:59:54 AM, DeFool wrote:
So, I have very little patience for those who feel that they are too 'one of a kind' to belong to any group. I am happy that the author of this thread realizes that they fit in somewhere. That decaffeinates me some.

What's wrong with not identifying with any one political group.

I think what he is saying is for those that believe that they are better for not being part of any group. As if being part of a group = bad.

Well that's obviously not always the case. It's a bit distressing (just a bit) just floating around. Some political labels might be useful depending on context (anarchist, socialist, mutualist, agorist, libertarian, etc. all have their places) but as far as overarching terms are concerned, it's just not working for me at current. Lack of affiliation isn't necessary indicative of some holier than thou attitude. It's just indicative of.....you know....lack of affiliation.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
DeFool
Posts: 626
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/10/2013 1:46:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:14:36 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 7/9/2013 7:55:04 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2013 1:43:24 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 7/9/2013 10:59:54 AM, DeFool wrote:
So, I have very little patience for those who feel that they are too 'one of a kind' to belong to any group. I am happy that the author of this thread realizes that they fit in somewhere. That decaffeinates me some.

What's wrong with not identifying with any one political group.

I think what he is saying is for those that believe that they are better for not being part of any group. As if being part of a group = bad.

Well that's obviously not always the case. It's a bit distressing (just a bit) just floating around. Some political labels might be useful depending on context (anarchist, socialist, mutualist, agorist, libertarian, etc. all have their places) but as far as overarching terms are concerned, it's just not working for me at current. Lack of affiliation isn't necessary indicative of some holier than thou attitude. It's just indicative of.....you know....lack of affiliation.

I can agree with this, and obviously you are correct in exposing my polemicist stance as fallacious. As I have stated it, you are probably more correct than I am.

However, I am not comfortable with suggesting that "affiliation" is identical to grouping. You, for example, can be filed away under the group label "unaffiliated." Another term might have you listed under the label, "persuadable."

These indicate a certain level of seeking on your part: if you were defined only by ignorance (ignorance is a necessary component of learning) then I doubt there would exist the energy to bother with the discussion at all. (You might scoff at the idea of being "unaffiliated," in favor of "leave me alone, I'm playing Xbox.")

My (revised to be less either/or) position is simply that we cannot resist being like others. Others will also be like us. If we learn enough about this process, I maintain that we will make better social decisions, and be more useful to our society.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/10/2013 2:11:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 12:59:38 PM, TUF wrote:
I don't really have one, but I have been questioning whether I should gain one or not...

Well, although in its negative forms and manifestations a political "ideology" is a mind-closing and mind-killing belief system that may lead to an unconstructive and divisive partisan approach to politics (e.g., the Tea Party ideologues promoting the current stalemate in congress), an ideology, political or otherwise, can be defined the way Alfred Nort Whitehead defined speculative philosophy, as "... the endeavor to frame a coherent, logical, necessary system of general ideas in terms of which every element of our experience can be interpreted". Approaching politics, or life in general, with such an "ideology" is simply more coherent, logical, and effective.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Naysayer
Posts: 746
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/10/2013 3:48:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 12:59:38 PM, TUF wrote:
I don't really have one, but I have been questioning whether I should gain one or not.I have a lot of beliefs that coincide with multiple parties, and up until now have never really wanted to fall into a specific group. But I was wondering if there was even a group that closely resembled my few political beliefs, and maybe I can attach myself to it so when people ask me what party I am, I can respond accordingly.

I'll admit, there are a lot of politics that I am un-educated/un-interested in.

I have always had a hard time identifying for the sake of politics. I've always refused to be associated with the Republican party for ethical reasons although I am almost exclusively a conservative of some degree or another. I've got a lot of admiration for libertarianism although I'm not 100% sold out that they're more than a collection of crank pots and anarchists with a couple of genius driving the movement and coming up with the ideas.

I'm still waiting for a serious presidential candidate or congressman that I can vote for without moral qualms in my life time.