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The Flat Earth Society

wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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7/3/2013 4:55:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.bloomberg.com...

Bloomberg recently posted a jab Obama made at the Flat Earth Society:

President Barack Obama in June laid down the most sweeping climate-change agenda of a U.S. president. He also took a moment to poke fun at people who dispute man-made global warming. "We don"t have time for a meeting of the Flat Earth Society," Obama said during a 6,000-word speech.

To be fair, meetings of the Flat Earth Society don"t take much time. For example, a recent study of studies found that 97 percent of scientific papers that take a stand on climate change support the evidence that warming caused by human activities is real. At the Flat Earth Society, they call it a conspiracy and move on. Enough said.


Bloomberg then made a slideshow presentation of several beliefs held by the society, along with some other superstitions that they deemed preposterous:

1) Vaccines Are Dangerous
2) There"s Nothing Wrong With Sitting
3) Eating GMOs Is Risky
4) Naps Are for Lazy People
5) Take Your Vitamins
6) Fan Death
7) Evolution Is Just a Theory
8) Video Games Make You Stupid
9) Nothing Is Safer Than Gold
10) Sustainability Is a Conspiracy

Thoughts and opinions on this list?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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7/3/2013 6:12:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 4:55:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com...

Bloomberg recently posted a jab Obama made at the Flat Earth Society:

President Barack Obama in June laid down the most sweeping climate-change agenda of a U.S. president. He also took a moment to poke fun at people who dispute man-made global warming. "We don"t have time for a meeting of the Flat Earth Society," Obama said during a 6,000-word speech.

To be fair, meetings of the Flat Earth Society don"t take much time. For example, a recent study of studies found that 97 percent of scientific papers that take a stand on climate change support the evidence that warming caused by human activities is real. At the Flat Earth Society, they call it a conspiracy and move on. Enough said.


Bloomberg then made a slideshow presentation of several beliefs held by the society, along with some other superstitions that they deemed preposterous:

1) Vaccines Are Dangerous
vaccines are dangerous because there are some cases where people with week immune systems take the vaccine and, if said vaccine is of a deadly disease, die
2) There"s Nothing Wrong With Sitting
how can sitting be bad
3) Eating GMOs Is Risky
i think it varies on the creature and how it is modified
4) Naps Are for Lazy People
yeah thats definitely preposterous
5) Take Your Vitamins
it differs on the person really
6) Fan Death
i don't understand what this is saying
7) Evolution Is Just a Theory
i agree with this statement
8) Video Games Make You Stupid
ok who says this and what is their reason
9) Nothing Is Safer Than Gold
what does this mean does someone mean actual gold or like gold standard
10) Sustainability Is a Conspiracy
i am sure i have heard this but i need a refresher on what this means

Thoughts and opinions on this list?
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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7/3/2013 6:31:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 4:55:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com...

Bloomberg recently posted a jab Obama made at the Flat Earth Society:

President Barack Obama in June laid down the most sweeping climate-change agenda of a U.S. president. He also took a moment to poke fun at people who dispute man-made global warming. "We don"t have time for a meeting of the Flat Earth Society," Obama said during a 6,000-word speech.

To be fair, meetings of the Flat Earth Society don"t take much time. For example, a recent study of studies found that 97 percent of scientific papers that take a stand on climate change support the evidence that warming caused by human activities is real. At the Flat Earth Society, they call it a conspiracy and move on. Enough said.


Bloomberg then made a slideshow presentation of several beliefs held by the society, along with some other superstitions that they deemed preposterous:

1) Vaccines Are Dangerous
You are aware that you can get sick from a vaccine? I got chicken pocks from the chicken pocks vaccine. There is a chance of getting the illness you are vaccinating against from the vaccine.
2) There"s Nothing Wrong With Sitting
OK I need some clarification. Last I checked sitting wasn't bad.
3) Eating GMOs Is Risky
Allot of people believe that BS. Allot of scientists also believe it. GMOs are safe, at-least in my opinion.
4) Naps Are for Lazy People
Clarify "Naps"
5) Take Your Vitamins
Depends on your diet. You should meet your daily vitamin intake.
6) Fan Death
What is this?
7) Evolution Is Just a Theory
Evolution is a theory, but that does not make it wrong. Just because something is a theory does not mean it is unsupported.

Also anti-Darwinism =/= anti-Evolution. Seeing how everything else is vague and out of context, I would really need more context regarding this point before I could comment.

8) Video Games Make You Stupid
Depends on the game. Angry Birds and Farmville is definitely prole feed.
9) Nothing Is Safer Than Gold
Clarification please?
10) Sustainability Is a Conspiracy

Context please?
Thoughts and opinions on this list?
Too vague, and lacking context.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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7/3/2013 8:27:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 6:31:13 PM, DanT wrote:

<didn't read the source, don't know the context of the OP>

Read the source.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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7/4/2013 1:13:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 4:55:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com...

Bloomberg recently posted a jab Obama made at the Flat Earth Society:

President Barack Obama in June laid down the most sweeping climate-change agenda of a U.S. president. He also took a moment to poke fun at people who dispute man-made global warming. "We don"t have time for a meeting of the Flat Earth Society," Obama said during a 6,000-word speech.

To be fair, meetings of the Flat Earth Society don"t take much time. For example, a recent study of studies found that 97 percent of scientific papers that take a stand on climate change support the evidence that warming caused by human activities is real. At the Flat Earth Society, they call it a conspiracy and move on. Enough said.


Bloomberg then made a slideshow presentation of several beliefs held by the society, along with some other superstitions that they deemed preposterous:

1) Vaccines Are Dangerous
They are a weakened version of the pathogen. Of course some symptoms can occur. Vaccines sure don't cause autism, though. Autism is most likely genetic, since it seems most autism patients have trouble removing mercury from their bodies.
2) There"s Nothing Wrong With Sitting
Except for the fact that you get fat (unless you're like me and take ADHD medicine, in which case you don't get fat even if you try)
3) Eating GMOs Is Risky
I'd say that this claim has some backing given the whole Bt toxin corn debacle several months ago.
4) Naps Are for Lazy People
Or for old people.
5) Take Your Vitamins
Just remember that "Vitamin B17" is not a vitamin and is in fact a sugar that metabolizes into cyanide. Not good. Watch out for homeopathic remedies, they want to kill you.
6) Fan Death
Never heard of it.
7) Evolution Is Just a Theory
Yes, it is a theory. One with widespread support, and one which is definitely closer than Goddidit.
8) Video Games Make You Stupid
Bullsh!t. With video games, I have improved my reflexes, hand-eye coordination, visual recall, and contrast sensitivity.
9) Nothing Is Safer Than Gold
I advocate for energy based currency. Gold is only valuable if we assign value to it.
10) Sustainability Is a Conspiracy
Yeah, let's see what is a "conspiracy" when we run out of fossil fuels.

Thoughts and opinions on this list?
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
ZakYoungTheLibertarian
Posts: 253
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7/4/2013 12:36:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Flat Earth Society is part of the "scientific" "consensus" on global warming (oops we're supposed to call it climate change now right? or have the enviro-wacko's shifted the goal posts yet again? is it petrolium induced earth quakes we're supposed to be terrified of now?!?!?)
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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7/4/2013 2:35:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, not all vaccines work the same way. There are many that cannot possibly make you ill because they do not use a live or hostile version of the pathogen in question. Most people think vaccines gave them a mild does of whatever they are for simply because, for them to do their job, they have to provoke an immune response. This can make you feel ill, because your body is responding as if there were an infection, even though there is not one. Or if there is, it is not a harmful one.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/4/2013 2:41:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 2:33:40 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
Conservatism: Progress Is Weakness.

Wrong.

Conservatism: Progress with forethought, caution and patience.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/4/2013 2:50:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 2:48:59 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
Try applying those to working out what my comment was actually saying.

How am I supposed to know what it was "actually" saying? You posted 4 words.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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7/4/2013 2:53:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 2:50:48 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
How am I supposed to know what it was "actually" saying? You posted 4 words.

Why use more needlessly?
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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7/4/2013 11:24:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 12:36:46 PM, ZakYoungTheLibertarian wrote:
The Flat Earth Society is part of the "scientific" "consensus" on global warming (oops we're supposed to call it climate change now right? or have the enviro-wacko's shifted the goal posts yet again? is it petrolium induced earth quakes we're supposed to be terrified of now?!?!?)

Do you disagree with the idea of anthropogenic global warming because of a lack of empirical evidence supporting it, because of empirical evidence that supports the contrary, or because it poses a problem for your ideology by presenting an issue whose only resolution would require that people work together towards a common cause, in addition to requiring that limits be put in place to recent overexploitation of natural resources and the destruction of the environment?

I've found that the people who disagree with anthropogenic global warming tend to be more conservative and libertarian - I suspect that this arises from confirmation bias, instead of rational analysis of the facts.

At 7/4/2013 2:41:26 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/4/2013 2:33:40 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
Conservatism: Progress Is Weakness.

Wrong.

Conservatism: Progress with forethought, caution and patience.

More like this:

Conservatism: Progress with fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,289
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7/5/2013 4:36:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 11:24:10 PM, drhead wrote:
At 7/4/2013 12:36:46 PM, ZakYoungTheLibertarian wrote:
The Flat Earth Society is part of the "scientific" "consensus" on global warming (oops we're supposed to call it climate change now right? or have the enviro-wacko's shifted the goal posts yet again? is it petrolium induced earth quakes we're supposed to be terrified of now?!?!?)

Do you disagree with the idea of anthropogenic global warming because of a lack of empirical evidence supporting it, because of empirical evidence that supports the contrary, or because it poses a problem for your ideology by presenting an issue whose only resolution would require that people work together towards a common cause, in addition to requiring that limits be put in place to recent overexploitation of natural resources and the destruction of the environment?

I've found that the people who disagree with anthropogenic global warming tend to be more conservative and libertarian - I suspect that this arises from confirmation bias, instead of rational analysis of the facts.





At 7/4/2013 2:41:26 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/4/2013 2:33:40 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
Conservatism: Progress Is Weakness.

Wrong.

Conservatism: Progress with forethought, caution and patience.

More like this:

Conservatism: Progress with fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Because you should progress with a trust in people smarter than you.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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7/5/2013 12:52:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Obama is using classic demagoguery. The global warming theory Obama cites is not just that CO2 promotes warming, but that CO2 dominates climate and that only intervention and control by an authoritarian regime can forestall imminent disaster. He claims that virtually all of science confirms the need for authoritarian rule. With no global warming for 15 years, the idea that nothing else significantly affects climate is dead. The bogus survey of scientific papers cherry picks journals and keywords. For example, global warming crisis theory demands that the Medieval Warm Period not exist as a worldwide phenomenon. A hundred papers show it existed worldwide, but since none specifically mentions climate change, they don't count.

It's easy to build a list of a five hundred reputable published Ph.D. climatologists who don't subscribe to global warming crisis theory. Comparisons to "flat earth theory" is a deliberate lie.

As to the list of other erroneous popular beliefs, I'm not sure what the point is. Global Warming Crisis Theory may or may not be an erroneous popular belief, so the list works for either side.

"Vaccines are harmful" refers to the idea that not taking vaccines is safer than taking them. Some parents have in fact avoided giving their children vaccines, with predictably disastrous consequences in the reemergence of diseases. One can defend "walking is harmful" as technically true, in the sense that if you walk you are subject to the potential hazard of tripping and falling. That's not the sense of the "vaccines are harmful" claim.

Very few in the developed world suffer from vitamin deficiency. No study shows a significant benefit from taking vitamins. It's usually pointless.

I'm not sure what "sustainability is a conspiracy" means. I think it is supposed to mean that anyone who opposes the liberal agenda for government controlling your life is an infidel.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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7/5/2013 1:43:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 4:36:15 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/4/2013 11:24:10 PM, drhead wrote:
At 7/4/2013 12:36:46 PM, ZakYoungTheLibertarian wrote:
The Flat Earth Society is part of the "scientific" "consensus" on global warming (oops we're supposed to call it climate change now right? or have the enviro-wacko's shifted the goal posts yet again? is it petrolium induced earth quakes we're supposed to be terrified of now?!?!?)

Do you disagree with the idea of anthropogenic global warming because of a lack of empirical evidence supporting it, because of empirical evidence that supports the contrary, or because it poses a problem for your ideology by presenting an issue whose only resolution would require that people work together towards a common cause, in addition to requiring that limits be put in place to recent overexploitation of natural resources and the destruction of the environment?

I've found that the people who disagree with anthropogenic global warming tend to be more conservative and libertarian - I suspect that this arises from confirmation bias, instead of rational analysis of the facts.





At 7/4/2013 2:41:26 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/4/2013 2:33:40 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
Conservatism: Progress Is Weakness.

Wrong.

Conservatism: Progress with forethought, caution and patience.

More like this:

Conservatism: Progress with fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Because you should progress with a trust in people smarter than you.

It is understandable to show some skepticism. I'm not disputing that. What I am arguing against is the conservative trend of creating controversy where there is none. This is apparent in the creation-evolution controversy. I find things to be worse when conservatives simply take a contrarian stance, like in the global warming controversy. This isn't helped by the fact that the contrarian stance they are taking comes exclusively from fear, uncertainty, and doubt (or outright lies) spread by the fossil fuel industries, who favor their existence (reliant upon the continued over exploitation of resources with little regard for effects on the environment) over the future of humanity (which relies on sustainable use of natural resources and taking care of the environment). Isn't conservatism's "forethought, caution, and patience" intended to FIND these issues BEFORE they become problems? As of now, what it is doing is the exact opposite - it is denying and ignoring these problems until they become WORSE.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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7/5/2013 2:27:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 12:52:39 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Obama is using classic demagoguery. The global warming theory Obama cites is not just that CO2 promotes warming, but that CO2 dominates climate and that only intervention and control by an authoritarian regime can forestall imminent disaster. He claims that virtually all of science confirms the need for authoritarian rule. With no global warming for 15 years, the idea that nothing else significantly affects climate is dead.

Of course CO2 isn't the only thing that influences the climate. It is the largest influence, though, and this is why it is the center of focus on environmentalist policy. I'll try to summarize the problems with the 16 years claim:
- It focuses on atmosphere temperatures. 93.4% of global warming goes to the ocean, while a tiny, tiny 2.3% goes to the atmosphere. In the ocean, this heat contributes to hurricanes and the like.
- La Nina/El Nino, once accounted for, point to warming:
http://www.skepticalscience.com...
These have just happened in a weird pattern. If you measure the individual trend lines of El Nino, neutral, and La Nina years, you see an upward trend.

The bogus survey of scientific papers cherry picks journals and keywords. For example, global warming crisis theory demands that the Medieval Warm Period not exist as a worldwide phenomenon. A hundred papers show it existed worldwide, but since none specifically mentions climate change, they don't count.

The Medieval Warm Period was caused by increased solar radiation (warming effect) and decreased volcanic activity (which is a cooling effect when it does happen). In addition, we've already passed the global average temperature of the MWP. The MWP does show that it is indeed possible for the climate to change, which is quite useful if you are arguing for the existence of global warming.

It's easy to build a list of a five hundred reputable published Ph.D. climatologists who don't subscribe to global warming crisis theory. Comparisons to "flat earth theory" is a deliberate lie.

Given the evidence, it's not too far off.

As to the list of other erroneous popular beliefs, I'm not sure what the point is. Global Warming Crisis Theory may or may not be an erroneous popular belief, so the list works for either side.

"Vaccines are harmful" refers to the idea that not taking vaccines is safer than taking them. Some parents have in fact avoided giving their children vaccines, with predictably disastrous consequences in the reemergence of diseases. One can defend "walking is harmful" as technically true, in the sense that if you walk you are subject to the potential hazard of tripping and falling. That's not the sense of the "vaccines are harmful" claim.

Very few in the developed world suffer from vitamin deficiency. No study shows a significant benefit from taking vitamins. It's usually pointless.

If you have a good diet and good exercise habits, you don't need vitamins. Unfortunately, not everyone does. That is what vitamins are for. For example, you would benefit from taking a calcium supplement if you don't drink milk or orange juice.

I'm not sure what "sustainability is a conspiracy" means. I think it is supposed to mean that anyone who opposes the liberal agenda for government controlling your life is an infidel.

It refers to short-sighted people who don't consider the long term consequences of overexploitation of resources and careless destruction of the environment. These people are more interested in their current standard of living than the future of humanity, and are opposed to anything that would take away from their standard of living. For everyone on Earth to have the standard of living of an American, we would need ten times the resources we currently have.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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7/5/2013 2:45:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 4:55:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com...

Bloomberg recently posted a jab Obama made at the Flat Earth Society:

President Barack Obama in June laid down the most sweeping climate-change agenda of a U.S. president. He also took a moment to poke fun at people who dispute man-made global warming. "We don"t have time for a meeting of the Flat Earth Society," Obama said during a 6,000-word speech.

To be fair, meetings of the Flat Earth Society don"t take much time. For example, a recent study of studies found that 97 percent of scientific papers that take a stand on climate change support the evidence that warming caused by human activities is real. At the Flat Earth Society, they call it a conspiracy and move on. Enough said.


Bloomberg then made a slideshow presentation of several beliefs held by the society, along with some other superstitions that they deemed preposterous:

1) Vaccines Are Dangerous
2) There"s Nothing Wrong With Sitting
3) Eating GMOs Is Risky
4) Naps Are for Lazy People
5) Take Your Vitamins
6) Fan Death
7) Evolution Is Just a Theory
8) Video Games Make You Stupid
9) Nothing Is Safer Than Gold
10) Sustainability Is a Conspiracy

Thoughts and opinions on this list?

Three is most definitely not a closed question.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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7/6/2013 12:48:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 2:27:19 PM, drhead wrote:
Of course CO2 isn't the only thing that influences the climate. It is the largest influence, though, and this is why it is the center of focus on environmentalist policy.

Surely you remember the global warming hockeystick, c. 2000, in which alarmists claimed that there was no significant change in climate until around 1980.

I'll try to summarize the problems with the 16 years claim:
- It focuses on atmosphere temperatures. 93.4% of global warming goes to the ocean, while a tiny, tiny 2.3% goes to the atmosphere.

The CO2 crisis is based upon climate models that claim to predict the future. The climate models predicted a sharp rise in atmospheric temperatures, and moreover they were so certain that we were supposed to turn over control of our lives to government to solve this absolutely-for-sure-positively-agreed-to problem. The models were very wrong, with observations below the two-sigma error bands. So now we have a new absolutely-for-sure theory that we are supposed believe.

In the ocean, this heat contributes to hurricanes and the like.
- La Nina/El Nino, once accounted for, point to warming:
http://www.skepticalscience.com...
These have just happened in a weird pattern. If you measure the individual trend lines of El Nino, neutral, and La Nina years, you see an upward trend.

One thing left out of the original models was the natural cyclical variations in ocean currents, most importantly the Pacific Decadal Oscillation that cleared ice out of the arctic in the 1930s and in the 1880s. Is the new theory that the PDO is weird stuff caused by CO2? (BTW, skepticalscience.com is a fanatical blog devoted to rationalizing CO2 crisis.)

The hurricane cycle is well established, as a rise in hurricane activity was expected without regard to global warming.

To prove that climate models are accurate, all that has to have happen is that they make correct predictions ahead of the events, rahte rthan making correct predictions after the events.

: The Medieval Warm Period was caused by increased solar radiation (warming effect) and decreased volcanic activity (which is a cooling effect when it does happen).

Ah, but the hockey stick says it only happened in Europe, and the Climategate e-mails revealed how important it was to get rid of it. If it were caused by solar activity it would clearly have been worldwide, which it was.

In addition, we've already passed the global average temperature of the MWP. The MWP does show that it is indeed possible for the climate to change, which is quite useful if you are arguing for the existence of global warming.

So Greenland is now green again, and grapes are being grown in northern Europe? Not quite. But if it is true that MWP temps are exceeded, what is that supposed to prove? Note that the Holocene Optimum, about 5000-8000 years ago, when civilizations rose in the Middle East, was substantially warmer than the MWP.

No one I know of doubts the earth is warming. The issues are whether CO2 is the dominant cause, whether warming is really as bad as claimed, and what we should do about.

It's easy to build a list of a five hundred reputable published Ph.D. climatologists who don't subscribe to global warming crisis theory. Comparisons to "flat earth theory" is a deliberate lie.

Given the evidence, it's not too far off.

I see, all doubters, no matter how many and how well qualified must dismissed as infidels. Dissent cannot be tolerated. That's religion, not science. Science wants debate. Doubt about CO2 crisis theory is now about at the same level as doubt about the steady-state theory was at one point before the Big Bang was established. Only the steady state theory was not considered sacred.

If you have a good diet and good exercise habits, you don't need vitamins. Unfortunately, not everyone does. That is what vitamins are for. For example, you would benefit from taking a calcium supplement if you don't drink milk or orange juice.

the issue is whether the average person should take a multivitamin tablet daily. There is no study that shows a health benefit from doing so. Since so many people have poor habits, one might think it would be significant, but it isn't.


It refers to short-sighted people who don't consider the long term consequences of overexploitation of resources and careless destruction of the environment. These people are more interested in their current standard of living than the future of humanity, and are opposed to anything that would take away from their standard of living. For everyone on Earth to have the standard of living of an American, we would need ten times the resources we currently have.

Nonsense. The idea is to provoke such fear in people that they turn over their lives to a self-selected elite. In the 60s and 70s, overpopulation was going to destroy the world if we didn't turn over the world to the liberal elite. Models showed total economic collapse before the year 2000 because we would run out of every resource imaginable. We are now offered the same deal.

Whether global warming is natural or CO2 dominated, climate engineering has the potential for solving the problem at modest cost. Since climate models are near-perfect at predicting what happens when anything changes in the environment -- they are reliable aren't they -- you would think that ecology-minded people would want to get right onto researching it. But gee, there is no interest. Climate engineering has the defect, from the authoritarian viewpoint, of not controlling the minute details of people's lives.