Total Posts:19|Showing Posts:1-19
Jump to topic:

Iranaphobia

ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 4:22:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Okay so the rampant fear of Iran in the media is getting quite irritating. Even for a national security buff like myself.

Iran is a rational actor in charge of millions of people they're not going to do anything overtly stupid.

They can't hurt the US. I really don't think they can.

So when I read this article about how Argentina and Iran are collaborating (how dare they!) and how it's being used to paint the two countries in a bad light it was the last straw.

Iran isn't a threat. They're a country trying to strive in a dangerous world.

They said there's a potential for Iran to use Argentina as a terrorist launching ground...

The distance between Argentina and the US is roughly 6,000 miles and the distance from the US to Iran is roughly 8,000 miles so... they'll get terrorists 2k miles closer. How terrifying.

Seriously, this crap is getting annoying.

http://freebeacon.com...
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 4:35:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The only thing I will agree with here is that your source is crap.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 4:38:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 4:35:14 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
The only thing I will agree with here is that your source is crap.

Then please enlighten me on how Iran is a threat to the United States.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 4:48:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 4:22:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Okay so the rampant fear of Iran in the media is getting quite irritating. Even for a Self=Proclaimed national security buff like myself.

fixed
Iran is a rational actor in charge of millions of people they're not going to do anything overtly stupid.

Since when is Iran rational?

They can't hurt the US. I really don't think they can.

It was that same type of attitude that led to Pearl Harbor, and 9/11.
So when I read this article about how Argentina and Iran are collaborating (how dare they!) and how it's being used to paint the two countries in a bad light it was the last straw.

Iran isn't a threat. They're a country trying to strive in a dangerous world.

Iran is a threat, as is North Korea. We must never let our guard down. That is not to say that we should become paranoid.
They said there's a potential for Iran to use Argentina as a terrorist launching ground...

Much like the Cuban missile crisis. Sounds like a reasonable concern.
The distance between Argentina and the US is roughly 6,000 miles and the distance from the US to Iran is roughly 8,000 miles so... they'll get terrorists 2k miles closer. How terrifying.

2,000 miles is a big difference. The width of the US is about 3,000 miles. The width of Europe is about 2,400 miles.
Seriously, this crap is getting annoying.

http://freebeacon.com...

I agree; posts like this are annoying.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 4:51:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
@DanT

Since when is Iran irrational? Point to an instance in international relations that Iran has acted irrationally.

And they have a new president so the quotes by their former president are out of date. I'm not saying that we should turn our backs on any security threat but I honestly am seeing Iran more and more as a simple rational actor who has interests different from our own.

The US propaganda and media brainwashing is ridiculous. We're still butthurt that they overthrew our Shah.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 5:50:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 4:22:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Okay so the rampant fear of Iran in the media is getting quite irritating. Even for a national security buff like myself.

Iran is a rational actor in charge of millions of people they're not going to do anything overtly stupid.

They can't hurt the US. I really don't think they can.

So when I read this article about how Argentina and Iran are collaborating (how dare they!) and how it's being used to paint the two countries in a bad light it was the last straw.

Iran isn't a threat. They're a country trying to strive in a dangerous world.

They said there's a potential for Iran to use Argentina as a terrorist launching ground...

The distance between Argentina and the US is roughly 6,000 miles and the distance from the US to Iran is roughly 8,000 miles so... they'll get terrorists 2k miles closer. How terrifying.

Seriously, this crap is getting annoying.

http://freebeacon.com...

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you're that much of a national security buff if you think Iran's threat to the US comes in the form of an attack that won't involve plausible deniability using a proxy like when Hezbollah-paid gunman tried to blow up a Saudi Arabian embassy in Mexico.

Venezuela, and to a lesser extent Argentina, are actively aiding Iran in transporting and fund-raising for Hezbollah which already has cells active in multiple US cities.

There are piles of documents showing terrorists paying gangs and cartels to be smuggled across the Mexican border.

The threat, again, isn't the nation of Venezuela/Argentina will go to war but its corrupt politicians who allow a pipeline of money, drugs, weapons, and fighters from one hemisphere to another.

Ideologies are no longer relevant when it comes to tactical alliances against the "western imperialists." Post-communist leftists are just as likely to be allied to jihadists as each other. Shia and sunni terrorists cooperate when they're on this side of the hemisphere.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 5:53:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If I were Iran I'd be doing precisely what they're doing now. Nothing irrational about it.

The better positioned they are to have proxy terrorists attack us, the less likely America is to declare war on Iran or fully aid Israel in an attack.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 5:59:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 5:53:23 PM, Wnope wrote:
If I were Iran I'd be doing precisely what they're doing now. Nothing irrational about it.

The better positioned they are to have proxy terrorists attack us, the less likely America is to declare war on Iran or fully aid Israel in an attack.

I just don't see why Iran would want to attack us, proxy or not, in the first place. What goals does it achieve?

Certainly, terror-like proxy attacks can't help them in any significant way. The best thing they can do for themselves is obtain nuclear weapons (which they're trying to do).
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 6:00:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 4:48:36 PM, DanT wrote:
At 7/9/2013 4:22:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Okay so the rampant fear of Iran in the media is getting quite irritating. Even for a Self=Proclaimed national security buff like myself.

fixed
Iran is a rational actor in charge of millions of people they're not going to do anything overtly stupid.

Since when is Iran rational?

As a rule, power-holders who thrive in brutal dictatorships don't have a legitimate death wish.

It's too easy to get it granted.
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 6:18:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why Iran is threat:

Congresswoman Ros-Lehtinen: U.S. Must Remain Vigilant, We Cannot Ignore Iranian Threat from Latin America:
http://ros-lehtinen.house.gov...
" U.S. Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL), Chairman of the Middle East and North Africa Subcommittee, made the following statement in response to a State Department report on Iranian activities in the Western Hemisphere..."

Iran is biggest threat to nuclear pact's credibility:
http://www.reuters.com...

According to reports, Threat of terror attacks against US by Iran and Hezbollah rising:
http://www.foxnews.com...

Director of National Intelligence Delivers Annual Summary of Findings, and Senators Focus on Perceived Dangers From Tehran:
http://online.wsj.com...

Pentagon Still Sees Iran as Threat No. 1:
http://www.military.com...

"Iran a threat to U.S. on many fronts"
http://security.blogs.cnn.com...

"...Iran's high-flying ballistic missiles could overwhelm U.S. missile defenses in the Persian Gulf, where much of the world's oil passes. Its fast-attack boats could swarm a warship and sink it. And its fleet of hard-to-find submarines carry torpedoes faster than any torpedo in the U.S. fleet..."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

The Iranian Threat and Why the US Needs to Build a Comprehensive System of Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense:
http://www.forbes.com...

http://www.iranintelligence.com...

Five reasons to attack Iran:
http://www.csmonitor.com...

The Iranian Nuclear Threat: Why it Matters:
http://www.adl.org...

Fact Sheet: The Threat from Iran (Updated June 2013)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 6:19:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 5:59:20 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/9/2013 5:53:23 PM, Wnope wrote:
If I were Iran I'd be doing precisely what they're doing now. Nothing irrational about it.

The better positioned they are to have proxy terrorists attack us, the less likely America is to declare war on Iran or fully aid Israel in an attack.

I just don't see why Iran would want to attack us, proxy or not, in the first place. What goals does it achieve?

Certainly, terror-like proxy attacks can't help them in any significant way. The best thing they can do for themselves is obtain nuclear weapons (which they're trying to do).

At the moment, directly attacking America would be counterproductive. But they're jockeying for ideological control over the middle east by aiding Shia groups. They are even able to establish their own political parties like in Lebanon. So, for instance, they have armed shia groups in Iraq and Afghanistan in order to kill American troops.

Their big rival is Saudi Arabia (hence Hez tries to attack a Saudi embassy) whose Wahhabist clerics are into universal jihad and a sunni state. Saudi Arabia sends weapons to groups that will ally with them like the Syrian rebels, Al Qaeda, and even Chechen rebels. The Sauds happen to also be a big friend of Uncle Sam when it comes to recycling petrodollars, something Iran is blocked out of.

America's interests in the middle east and Iran's directly oppose, unsurprisingly since the current regime is a reaction to the American/British backed one. The actual people of Iran don't have much against the US, but the people who bloodied their way into the government have a long memory.

Hezbollah is Iran's biggest tool for spreading the alliance.

Directly attacking the US is not in Iran's interest. But strategically Israel=US and if Israel attacks, America is likely to follow.

If America did attack, activating Hezbollah in the United States would change the entire political landscape. Imagine how much America will want to invade Iran when they hear daily suicide bombings will stop in Manhattan if they leave Israel to do its thing alone.

Ideologically, Argentinian leadership has been moving closer to Chavez's Bolivarian "Us against the imperialist/America" stance which in practice means accepting lots of bribe money from drug dealers and foreigners looking to set up camp and not be bothered.

Chavez has directly aided FARC and other terrorist groups as well as provided safe havens for anti-Ecuadorian terrorist groups and international terrorists like Carl the Jackal.

Latin America has some pretty legitimate gripes about how America has treated it. So it's not like these sentiments have come out of thin air. And this isn't something entirely novel. Qaddafi was funneling millions into Sandanistas for a long time. But the problem is now entire governments are in favor of these kinds of tactics.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 7:55:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Iran is a threat to the region it belongs to. That's a direct threat to US hegemony, and every US influence in the ME. Calling it a threat is a good choice, because it needs to be defined the way it behaves. Something to cripple down the regime will likely work, unless the new one can create progress.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 9:16:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 4:22:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Okay so the rampant fear of Iran in the media is getting quite irritating. Even for a national security buff like myself.

Iran is a rational actor in charge of millions of people they're not going to do anything overtly stupid.

Oh, you mean like pursue nuclear weapons in violation of international arms treaties?

They can't hurt the US. I really don't think they can.

They pose an economic, geopolitical, and security threat to the United States and its interests.

So when I read this article about how Argentina and Iran are collaborating (how dare they!) and how it's being used to paint the two countries in a bad light it was the last straw.

Venezuela is only an economic threat.

Iran isn't a threat. They're a country trying to strive in a dangerous world.

They said there's a potential for Iran to use Argentina as a terrorist launching ground...

The distance between Argentina and the US is roughly 6,000 miles and the distance from the US to Iran is roughly 8,000 miles so... they'll get terrorists 2k miles closer. How terrifying.

Seriously, this crap is getting annoying.

http://freebeacon.com...
Tsar of DDO
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 9:34:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you think Iran is not a threat, you are clearly mistaken. They are a key destabilizer in the region - basically every other country in the region except Syria is opposed to them, because their actions have alienated everyone in the Middle East. They are controlled by religious radicals, some of whom want to help 'speed along' the Islamic end times.

Further, their nuclear weapons program is extremely problematic. The real risk is not them making a bomb and using it, but rather them enriching uranium and then supplying to a group (like, say, Al-Qaeda) that already has a bomb, smuggling it across the border, and then blowing up a major city.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 10:58:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 5:59:20 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/9/2013 5:53:23 PM, Wnope wrote:
If I were Iran I'd be doing precisely what they're doing now. Nothing irrational about it.

The better positioned they are to have proxy terrorists attack us, the less likely America is to declare war on Iran or fully aid Israel in an attack.

I just don't see why Iran would want to attack us, proxy or not, in the first place. What goals does it achieve?

Certainly, terror-like proxy attacks can't help them in any significant way. The best thing they can do for themselves is obtain nuclear weapons (which they're trying to do).

This all depends upon your political philosophy. I subscribe to realism, which predicates that any and all states strive for regional hegemony, which is consistent with Iran's (and formerly Iraq's) behavior. In this sense any and all states are potential threats...which is why our military is so pervasive in its global presence.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 11:02:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Let's just hope Iran doesn't start assassinating american scientists in the streets of major cities in broad daylight, that'd be construed as an act of war.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/9/2013 11:04:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
To the larger point, politicians have to keep you scared of something, the fears they peddle today are objectively irrational but thats the best they have to work with.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
slo1
Posts: 4,364
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/10/2013 8:41:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 4:22:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Okay so the rampant fear of Iran in the media is getting quite irritating. Even for a national security buff like myself.

Iran is a rational actor in charge of millions of people they're not going to do anything overtly stupid.

They can't hurt the US. I really don't think they can.

So when I read this article about how Argentina and Iran are collaborating (how dare they!) and how it's being used to paint the two countries in a bad light it was the last straw.

Iran isn't a threat. They're a country trying to strive in a dangerous world.

They said there's a potential for Iran to use Argentina as a terrorist launching ground...

The distance between Argentina and the US is roughly 6,000 miles and the distance from the US to Iran is roughly 8,000 miles so... they'll get terrorists 2k miles closer. How terrifying.

Seriously, this crap is getting annoying.

http://freebeacon.com...

I remember back in the day a couple or so years after the Iraq occupation. I was researching all the accusations against Iran. I recall the LA Times actually had verbiage that an unaware reader (most of them) that stated they were developing nuclear weapons.

It was pure speculation that was presented as fact. I couldn't believe it. Of course since the shills from the left were so loud proclaiming Bush was going to attack Iran, nobody was really focused on what the actual truth of the matter was.

The entire justification of Gov defense spending is based upon how dangerous the world it. I don't know whether there is a conscious effort to make countries and people more scary than they are or whether it is unconscious human trait that we all use to keep ourselves beliefs congruent.

Everyone knows that the group of countries that are largely opposed to the US cooperate, do business with each other. They have for years and will continue to do so.

One thing is for certain, we will not avoid bone head moves like invading and occupying Iraq for a decade when we have governments & media overstating threats just because it is more important for them to "feel" they are right than actually be right.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/10/2013 9:11:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 11:04:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
To the larger point, politicians have to keep you scared of something, the fears they peddle today are objectively irrational but thats the best they have to work with.

Please substantiate the underlined.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?