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Nm Chomsky: Blistering Critique of Capitalism

GeoLaureate8
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7/10/2013 5:03:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Noam Chomsky delivers strong critique of Capitalism. I know there's lots of Capitalists here, what's your response to this?
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darkkermit
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7/10/2013 5:11:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yea, not all work is as interesting as academia. A lot of work is grudging, difficult, and annoying that nobody would do unless paid a nice salary to do it.

And even still, you're dealing with a small minority that actually do want to do this kind of stuff which Chomsky refers to. The majority isn't like that at all.
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OMGJustinBieber
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7/10/2013 5:16:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I can't take seriously any complete, unabashed criticisms of capitalism anymore. Just look around you; we live in the wealthiest era ever seen on this planet and it's been facilitated so much by the kind of innovation encouraged by capitalistic policies.

This doesn't mean that capitalism is perfect, but at this debate is simply about how much capitalism as well as distributive issues...not capitalism versus socialism.

DK, are how many serious economists today would you say are socialists?
darkkermit
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7/10/2013 6:37:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 5:16:25 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
I can't take seriously any complete, unabashed criticisms of capitalism anymore. Just look around you; we live in the wealthiest era ever seen on this planet and it's been facilitated so much by the kind of innovation encouraged by capitalistic policies.

This doesn't mean that capitalism is perfect, but at this debate is simply about how much capitalism as well as distributive issues...not capitalism versus socialism.

DK, are how many serious economists today would you say are socialists?

Depends how you define "socialist". My estimate for the amount of socialists probably be less than 5%. There's one marxist I know I read about but I forget his name.
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GeoLaureate8
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7/10/2013 7:09:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Socialist economists are not as rare as you suggest. Given the overlap of Keyneseanism and Socialism, I would say Keynesianism is the norm. All the Liberal university economists are Keynesian, universities block Milton Friedman material and organizations.

The chairman of the Federal Reserve is Keynesian, the Secretary of Treasury is Keynesian.

On CNBC, free market economist Peter Schiff is always the lone voice taking on 4 Keynesians.

Friedman, Sowell, Rothbard, and Hayek stand out because they are remarkable and against convention and majority opinion, even among economists.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Eitan_Zohar
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7/10/2013 8:40:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 7:09:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Socialist economists are not as rare as you suggest. Given the overlap of Keyneseanism and Socialism, I would say Keynesianism is the norm. All the Liberal university economists are Keynesian, universities block Milton Friedman material and organizations.

The chairman of the Federal Reserve is Keynesian, the Secretary of Treasury is Keynesian.

On CNBC, free market economist Peter Schiff is always the lone voice taking on 4 Keynesians.

Friedman, Sowell, Rothbard, and Hayek stand out because they are remarkable and against convention and majority opinion, even among economists.

"Overlap?"

Chomsky's critique seems to be fairly meaningless to me. IDGAF what some enlightenment figure wrote or who took it out of context.
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lewis20
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7/10/2013 10:59:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Chomsky has a point about the US not being near as 'capitalistic' as we like to pretend it is. The govt influences our economy very heavily just up until the point of running industry.
Don't agree in his view of Libertarian Socialism, but he makes great points when he bashes our 'capitalistic' system, as not truly being so.
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darkkermit
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7/10/2013 11:04:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 10:59:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Chomsky has a point about the US not being near as 'capitalistic' as we like to pretend it is. The govt influences our economy very heavily just up until the point of running industry.
Don't agree in his view of Libertarian Socialism, but he makes great points when he bashes our 'capitalistic' system, as not truly being so.

For the most part, its difficult to really quantify what is considered capitalism or not-capitalism due to the difficulty of determining property rights, overseeing exchanges, and the fact that people tend to lie, and steal.

The idea of voluntary exchange occurring by two rational actors, without any form of fraud, theft, or disputes occurring simply doesn't occur in the real world. The thing is, regulation can actually be used for settling disputes and for the government to have a record to solve disputes, and issues of fraud and lying easily.
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lewis20
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7/10/2013 11:42:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 11:04:47 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/10/2013 10:59:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Chomsky has a point about the US not being near as 'capitalistic' as we like to pretend it is. The govt influences our economy very heavily just up until the point of running industry.
Don't agree in his view of Libertarian Socialism, but he makes great points when he bashes our 'capitalistic' system, as not truly being so.

For the most part, its difficult to really quantify what is considered capitalism or not-capitalism due to the difficulty of determining property rights, overseeing exchanges, and the fact that people tend to lie, and steal.

The idea of voluntary exchange occurring by two rational actors, without any form of fraud, theft, or disputes occurring simply doesn't occur in the real world. The thing is, regulation can actually be used for settling disputes and for the government to have a record to solve disputes, and issues of fraud and lying easily.

It's not regulation, it's things like federal flood insurance, farm subsidies, government sponsored enterprises etc.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Stephen_Hawkins
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7/11/2013 6:04:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm pretty sure some of the capitalists saw how oppressed socialism was in the nineteen sixties, and thought 'well, we'll have some of that!' And now pretend they are the radical minority...

To say Milton Friedman is discriminated against in economics is to say Darwin is fringe in biology and Socrates is rarely mentioned in philosophy.
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lewis20
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7/11/2013 10:50:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 6:04:56 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I'm pretty sure some of the capitalists saw how oppressed socialism was in the nineteen sixties, and thought 'well, we'll have some of that!' And now pretend they are the radical minority...

To say Milton Friedman is discriminated against in economics is to say Darwin is fringe in biology and Socrates is rarely mentioned in philosophy.

Its more like paying lip service to Darwin while making creationism the national policy.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Eitan_Zohar
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7/11/2013 1:57:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The ideas presented here by Chomsky are dishonest, now that I think about it. I was talking about the self-corrective power of the market on a forum (back in my libertarian days) and an actual economist called me out on it and pointed out that neoclassical economics isn't laissez-faire at all. It's pretty much common sense to them. But neoclassical economics certainly doesn't bear any resemblance to left-wing thinking, either, like Chomsky portrayed it, and neither are advocates of globalization brainwashed free marketopians who cite Adam Smith as their argument. That's the libertarian mentality.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."