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Buddamoose
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7/23/2013 1:32:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
No joke though, when Bill O' Reilly starts making sense, you know the situation is REALLY messed up:

The video is of his recent talking points he did on the issue of the "Race Problem" in America. The problem in question of course being, not only the profiling of young African American males by law enforcement, but the condition of the many African American communities in the country today.

A few noteworthy statements he made:

"From the president on down, our leadership has no clue at all how to deal with the problems of the black community."
"Young African Americans are so often criminally profiled, because they are so often involved in crime."

This one statistic alone just blows the mind: "Young African Americans commit homicide at a rate 10 TIMES, that's right, 10 TIMES THAT OF CAUCASIANS AND HISPANICS" COMBINED

"and what does the Civil Rights "Industry"(NAACP etc.) have to say about that? They make excuses, without actually addressing THE CORE ISSUES THAT CAUSE THIS TO HAPPEN.It's guns, its lack of education, its lack of jobs, etc."

"The reason there is so much violence and chaos in African American communities, is the disintegration of the African American family."

"About 73% of all African American children born, are born, OUT OF WEDLOCK. This not only drives poverty, but the lack of involved fathers, leads to children, not just young boys, but especially young buys, to grow up RESENTFUL AND UNSUPERVISED."

"Honestly, ask yourself, when was the last time you saw a public service ad counseling young black women to avoid becoming pregnant? Where is the demand for ads such as these, that address this one, of a few core issues at hand? Where is the NAACP demanding these ads? Where is the congressional black caucus demanding these? Al Sharpton? NOWHERE TO BE FOUND"

"Caucasians, or people of any other race, DO NOT FORCE AFRICAN AMERICANS TO HAVE BABIES OUT OF WEDLOCK. THAT IS A PERSONAL DECISION."

"Raised without structure or supervision, young African often reject education, and gravitate towards vice. Nobody forces them to do that, again, it is a personal decision."

"The Drug Epidemic destroyed a city like Detroit. Addiction leads to crime and debasement."

"The thugs who sell hard drugs, no matter what color they are, deserve to be put away for LONG periods of time."

"They sell poison, they sell a product that enslaves and kills, THEY ARE SCUM. When was the last time you heard Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton say something like that?"

"The solution to the problem of violent crime in poor African American neighborhoods is:

-To discourage pregnancies out of wedlock
-To impose strict discipline in public schools
-To enact a zero-tolerance policy for gun and drug related crimes, imposing mandatory prison sentences for offenders.
-Challenge the entertainment industry to stop peddling garbage"

"If a kid can't speak proper English, uses the F-word in every sentence, is disrespectful in his or her manner, that child will NEVER, EVER BE ABLE TO COMPETE IN THE MARKETPLACE OF AMERICA."

"It has nothing to do with slavery, and it has everything to do with Hollywood, and derelict parents. You are the ones hurting these vulnerable children."

"You can't legislate good parenting, and responsible entertainment, but you can fight against it with discipline, a firm message, and little tolerance for excuses."
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
royalpaladin
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7/23/2013 6:49:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
African Americans are specifically targeted by the police. Drugs that Caucasians use carry lesser criminal penalties, while drugs that African Americans use are associated with felonies (cocaine v. crack comes to mind). Statistics show that Caucasians use drugs more than African Americans do, yet drug arrests and convictions are primarily for African Americans. In addition, Caucasian children tend to be let off the hook more so that the arrests do not spoil their chances to have a college education, but African American children are explicitly placed in jail for criminal activities. I know several Caucasian students from high school who were arrested for underage drinking and driving, but only received a warning so that their college careers would not be spoiled.

Even FBI statistics indicate that African Americans are unfairly targeted.

On top of this, nothing justifies profiling someone for the actions of another. Just like Bill O'Reilly should not be executed for the actions of Ted Bundy, so should African Americans who have not committed crimes not be profiled as a result of race. This not only is unfair, but it also causes social alienation and racial tensions.

I'm sure you and Bill wouldn't want to be profiled as serial killers. I think we should profile you, however, since most serial killers are Caucasian. Budda is a serial killer.
DeFool
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7/23/2013 7:08:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 6:49:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
African Americans are specifically targeted by the police. Drugs that Caucasians use carry lesser criminal penalties, while drugs that African Americans use are associated with felonies (cocaine v. crack comes to mind). Statistics show that Caucasians use drugs more than African Americans do, yet drug arrests and convictions are primarily for African Americans. In addition, Caucasian children tend to be let off the hook more so that the arrests do not spoil their chances to have a college education, but African American children are explicitly placed in jail for criminal activities. I know several Caucasian students from high school who were arrested for underage drinking and driving, but only received a warning so that their college careers would not be spoiled.

Even FBI statistics indicate that African Americans are unfairly targeted.

On top of this, nothing justifies profiling someone for the actions of another. Just like Bill O'Reilly should not be executed for the actions of Ted Bundy, so should African Americans who have not committed crimes not be profiled as a result of race. This not only is unfair, but it also causes social alienation and racial tensions.

I'm sure you and Bill wouldn't want to be profiled as serial killers. I think we should profile you, however, since most serial killers are Caucasian. Budda is a serial killer.

There is a trend among White Supremacist groups in the US to garner as much attention as possible to the phenomenon of "black on white" violence, in order to justify white on black violence.

It has become very popular following the Trayvon Martin killing, with these groups positively euphoric. The hapless GOPs outreach efforts to minorities has become comically inept...

Now, with a national dialog, the real NAZI groups (by which I mean the gentlemen with the boots and the tattoos, and not the mythical 'liberal' ones like Obama) are finding purchase within the American psyche. This is the first such example of a resurgent right wing in the US that I can remember.

To see better what I am on about, visit any neo-NAZI or White Supremacist website. A good place to begin is the "Stormfront" forums. Here, we are treated to a front row seat the whole affair. This will look familiar, and can be seen here:
http://www.stormfront.org...
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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7/23/2013 7:08:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 6:49:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
African Americans are specifically targeted by the police. Drugs that Caucasians use carry lesser criminal penalties, while drugs that African Americans use are associated with felonies (cocaine v. crack comes to mind). Statistics show that Caucasians use drugs more than African Americans do, yet drug arrests and convictions are primarily for African Americans. In addition, Caucasian children tend to be let off the hook more so that the arrests do not spoil their chances to have a college education, but African American children are explicitly placed in jail for criminal activities. I know several Caucasian students from high school who were arrested for underage drinking and driving, but only received a warning so that their college careers would not be spoiled.

Even FBI statistics indicate that African Americans are unfairly targeted.

On top of this, nothing justifies profiling someone for the actions of another. Just like Bill O'Reilly should not be executed for the actions of Ted Bundy, so should African Americans who have not committed crimes not be profiled as a result of race. This not only is unfair, but it also causes social alienation and racial tensions.

I'm sure you and Bill wouldn't want to be profiled as serial killers. I think we should profile you, however, since most serial killers are Caucasian. Budda is a serial killer.

I don't personally want to do this debate, but I'm putting this out as an idea.

"Resolved: It is perfectly acceptable to make assumptions about groups based on generalized statistical statements."

I'm assuming you'd take the Con position?
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
royalpaladin
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7/23/2013 7:13:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:08:48 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 7/23/2013 6:49:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
African Americans are specifically targeted by the police. Drugs that Caucasians use carry lesser criminal penalties, while drugs that African Americans use are associated with felonies (cocaine v. crack comes to mind). Statistics show that Caucasians use drugs more than African Americans do, yet drug arrests and convictions are primarily for African Americans. In addition, Caucasian children tend to be let off the hook more so that the arrests do not spoil their chances to have a college education, but African American children are explicitly placed in jail for criminal activities. I know several Caucasian students from high school who were arrested for underage drinking and driving, but only received a warning so that their college careers would not be spoiled.

Even FBI statistics indicate that African Americans are unfairly targeted.

On top of this, nothing justifies profiling someone for the actions of another. Just like Bill O'Reilly should not be executed for the actions of Ted Bundy, so should African Americans who have not committed crimes not be profiled as a result of race. This not only is unfair, but it also causes social alienation and racial tensions.

I'm sure you and Bill wouldn't want to be profiled as serial killers. I think we should profile you, however, since most serial killers are Caucasian. Budda is a serial killer.

I don't personally want to do this debate, but I'm putting this out as an idea.

"Resolved: It is perfectly acceptable to make assumptions about groups based on generalized statistical statements."

I'm assuming you'd take the Con position?

LOL, some libertarian you are. You think it's valid to categorize individuals according to group statistics or to not treat people individually? I guess that all white males are rapists and serial killers. :)

Change "groups" to "individuals" and I'll do the debate.
royalpaladin
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7/23/2013 7:14:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh, and I demand that the police profile all men since 99% of violent criminals are men. I think all men should be stopped and frisked.
DeFool
Posts: 626
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7/23/2013 7:15:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:08:48 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 7/23/2013 6:49:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
African Americans are specifically targeted by the police. Drugs that Caucasians use carry lesser criminal penalties, while drugs that African Americans use are associated with felonies (cocaine v. crack comes to mind). Statistics show that Caucasians use drugs more than African Americans do, yet drug arrests and convictions are primarily for African Americans. In addition, Caucasian children tend to be let off the hook more so that the arrests do not spoil their chances to have a college education, but African American children are explicitly placed in jail for criminal activities. I know several Caucasian students from high school who were arrested for underage drinking and driving, but only received a warning so that their college careers would not be spoiled.

Even FBI statistics indicate that African Americans are unfairly targeted.

On top of this, nothing justifies profiling someone for the actions of another. Just like Bill O'Reilly should not be executed for the actions of Ted Bundy, so should African Americans who have not committed crimes not be profiled as a result of race. This not only is unfair, but it also causes social alienation and racial tensions.

I'm sure you and Bill wouldn't want to be profiled as serial killers. I think we should profile you, however, since most serial killers are Caucasian. Budda is a serial killer.

I don't personally want to do this debate, but I'm putting this out as an idea.

"Resolved: It is perfectly acceptable to make assumptions about groups based on generalized statistical statements."

I'm assuming you'd take the Con position?

Racial profiling, a fallacy given legislative weight.

Consider the case of the Muslims, popular villains before the blacks began slaughtering us in the streets with help from the liberal media.

Most Arabs in the US are not Muslim, but Christians. Most Muslims in the US are black. Most blacks are not Muslim but Baptist. Most Baptists are white. Most whites are not Baptists. Most Christians are not men, but women. Most women worldwide are not Christian.

We can have oodles of fun with profiling.
ClassicRobert
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7/23/2013 7:17:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:13:50 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:08:48 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 7/23/2013 6:49:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
African Americans are specifically targeted by the police. Drugs that Caucasians use carry lesser criminal penalties, while drugs that African Americans use are associated with felonies (cocaine v. crack comes to mind). Statistics show that Caucasians use drugs more than African Americans do, yet drug arrests and convictions are primarily for African Americans. In addition, Caucasian children tend to be let off the hook more so that the arrests do not spoil their chances to have a college education, but African American children are explicitly placed in jail for criminal activities. I know several Caucasian students from high school who were arrested for underage drinking and driving, but only received a warning so that their college careers would not be spoiled.

Even FBI statistics indicate that African Americans are unfairly targeted.

On top of this, nothing justifies profiling someone for the actions of another. Just like Bill O'Reilly should not be executed for the actions of Ted Bundy, so should African Americans who have not committed crimes not be profiled as a result of race. This not only is unfair, but it also causes social alienation and racial tensions.

I'm sure you and Bill wouldn't want to be profiled as serial killers. I think we should profile you, however, since most serial killers are Caucasian. Budda is a serial killer.

I don't personally want to do this debate, but I'm putting this out as an idea.

"Resolved: It is perfectly acceptable to make assumptions about groups based on generalized statistical statements."

I'm assuming you'd take the Con position?

LOL, some libertarian you are. You think it's valid to categorize individuals according to group statistics or to not treat people individually? I guess that all white males are rapists and serial killers. :)

Change "groups" to "individuals" and I'll do the debate.

Ha I don't know if I describe myself as a heavy libertarian. I mean, my profile also has my president as someone with a stripper name, it has my ideology as communist, and my religion as "Primal-Indigenous."

Anyway, this isn't a debate I have time for now. It was just a suggestion for one you could do. Change the resolution to whatever you want :)
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
Buddamoose
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7/23/2013 7:21:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 6:49:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
African Americans are specifically targeted by the police.

This is, imo, not due to any specific targeting, but rather, because drugs are moreso prevalent in African American communities than others.

Drugs that Caucasians use carry lesser criminal penalties, while drugs that African Americans use are associated with felonies (cocaine v. crack comes to mind).

I wasn't aware that white people only use certain drugs, and African Americans only use certain drugs? By the way, THE USE OF DRUGS IS A PERSONAL CHOICE. Those who do them are well aware of the consequences of their actions. Nobody is forcing them to do these drugs, are they?

Statistics show that Caucasians use drugs more than African Americans do, yet drug arrests and convictions are primarily for African Americans.

This I was well aware of, but to say there is inherent racism occurring, because more African Americans are arrested and convicted than Caucasians, is partially fallacious. Has it occurred to you, that for the most part, alot of these users, simply aren't caught? Can't be arrested or convicted unless you are caught in possession of or under the influence, of something in the first place, now can you?

In addition, Caucasian children tend to be let off the hook more so that the arrests do not spoil their chances to have a college education,

I know plenty of Caucasians that aren't, nor were they ever let off the hook at all. They got busted, they were charged, tried, and convicted, no leeway or slack given. If the system was inherently biased or racist, then I doubt these people would have been dealt with as harshly as they were, because well, they were white.

but African American children are explicitly placed in jail for criminal activities.

First off, juvenile detention is nowhere near the same as jail. If someone is being placed in jail, they are not a child. They are most likely above the age of 16, considered an adult in the circumstances, and therefore, under the circumstances of the crime being commited, no longer considered a "child." To say "children" are being sent to jail, is the same as saying college football players are "kids." They're not, they're adults, and if they haven't yet learned to act like one, that is their fault, and nobody elses.

I know several Caucasian students from high school who were arrested for underage drinking and driving, but only received a warning so that their college careers would not be spoiled.

LOL, I wish I had the same done for me. I drove drunk, and was fully convicted. Boy, I really wish I could have used these priviledges that the system gives to white people, guess I must not be white enough...

A DUI wouldn't necessarily spoil a college career you know that right? I have a DUI, it doesn't prevent me from attending college...

Even FBI statistics indicate that African Americans are unfairly targeted.

such as?

On top of this, nothing justifies profiling someone for the actions of another. Just like Bill O'Reilly should not be executed for the actions of Ted Bundy, so should African Americans who have not committed crimes not be profiled as a result of race. This not only is unfair, but it also causes social alienation and racial tensions.

And nowhere was it ever said that RACIAL profiling was ok. In fact it was explicitly said that it wasn't. But of course you are going to ignore that because it suits your purposes better if you just assume that whomever is saying these things is a proponent of racial profiling.

I'm not, racial profiling is usually wrong, with very few exceptions. But be realistic about this, if a black man is shot in a black neighborhood, and the bullets come from a weapon that is known to be prevalent within that neighborhood, would it not be smart, to look at the residents of that neighborhood? Would it not be logical also to deduce, that given that in a majority of homicides black males commit, they are murdering other black males, that it was likely that an African American commited the murder?

Well according to you no, because that's racial profiling and that's wrong. But its not just racial profiling. Racial profiling would be if I ignored all the other circumstances I mentioned, and just went, "black males commit homicide at 10X the rate of Hispanics and Caucasians combined, so chances are its a black man who did this."

THATS RACIAL PROFILING, and THAT is wrong to do.

I'm sure you and Bill wouldn't want to be profiled as serial killers. I think we should profile you, however, since most serial killers are Caucasian. Budda is a serial killer.

Of course, I never said I was a proponent of racial profiling, but like I also said, it makes it easier for you to assume that I am, doesn't it? Because it allows you to go, "HE'S BEING SO RACIST RIGHT NOW!!"

Lets ignore that you only addressed the "profiling" aspect of the conversation, and immediately jumped into concluding that what was being said was racist. While COMPLETELY IGNORING, that the conversation was not mainly about racial profiling, but rather, about how to solve the inherent problems African American communities are facing today.

- A majority of children being born out of wedlock
- Drugs running rampant throughout these communities(\
- A culture that glorifies and condones "gangster" and "thug" behavior.

but nooooooo, these aren't a problem at all, no siree, the problem is racial profiling. See because them Whites is racist, and they just want to see African Americans in jail. Yup, that's exactly what the problem is.

Is racial profiling a problem? Yes, of course it is, but see, racial profiling is but a SYMPTOM, of the CORE ISSUES. When somebody is sick Royal, is it generally smarter to treat the symptoms, or the illness itself?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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7/23/2013 7:24:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:14:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Oh, and I demand that the police profile all men since 99% of violent criminals are men. I think all men should be stopped and frisked.

see, like I said, you are making racial profiling the issue, when that wasn't even the main issue being brought up. Congrats on being a part of the reason why the inherent problems within African American communities still aren't being solved today. It's sh!t like this that is the main reason why people are so scared to actually sit down, and actually discuss: how can we fix the issues facing these communities?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Stephen_Hawkins
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7/23/2013 9:10:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:14:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Oh, and I demand that the police profile all men since 99% of violent criminals are men. I think all men should be stopped and frisked.

100% of murders are committed by PEOPLE, therefore I suggest, nay, DEMAND that we extend this frisking into all those who fit into the category of people.

In fact, this isn't safe enough. We ought to lock up these potential murderers, just in case.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Stephen_Hawkins
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7/23/2013 9:12:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
lol'd at "It has nothing to do with slavery, and it has everything to do with Hollywood"
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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7/23/2013 9:33:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 1:32:07 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
No joke though, when Bill O' Reilly starts making sense, you know the situation is REALLY messed up:

Unfortunately it is a joke. Most of what you quoted is one-sided and unfairly biased. I'm not saying Obama's speech wasn't biased, but it addressed many of the points O'Reilly makes here, without the erroneous or misleading statements we all know O'Reilly is prone to make, such as (from your list):

"Caucasians, or people of any other race, DO NOT FORCE AFRICAN AMERICANS TO HAVE BABIES OUT OF WEDLOCK. THAT IS A PERSONAL DECISION."

This is not a race problem. This is a poverty problem, and he should have kept the discussion as a poverty problem. It is also a problem involving a broken welfare system that rewards failure.

"If a kid can't speak proper English, uses the F-word in every sentence, is disrespectful in his or her manner, that child will NEVER, EVER BE ABLE TO COMPETE IN THE MARKETPLACE OF AMERICA."

This is unduly inflammatory.

"The reason there is so much violence and chaos in African American communities, is the disintegration of the African American family."

"About 73% of all African American children born, are born, OUT OF WEDLOCK. This not only drives poverty, but the lack of involved fathers, leads to children, not just young boys, but especially young buys, to grow up RESENTFUL AND UNSUPERVISED."

"It has nothing to do with slavery, and it has everything to do with Hollywood, and derelict parents. You are the ones hurting these vulnerable children."

This fails to take into consideration that there was no such concept as an "African American family" during slavery, that slaves couldn't marry, women were raped at young ages, and babies were taken from them because they didn't belong to them. Slavemasters actively and intentionally destroyed any concept of an "African American family". Now you see the consequences.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
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7/23/2013 9:38:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anyway, if O'Reilly really did say all this (and I listened to bits and pieces and heard a couple of the quotes), he's doing himself and anyone with justifiable views on this matter a gigantic disservice. I'm just going to say (and the OP admits this too) that O'Reilly talks out of his @ss more often than not and doesn't necessarily represent a valid conservative position.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
DeFool
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7/23/2013 9:40:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It is foolish to take seriously anything said by O'Reilly. Although it is always possible that he will eventually say the truth about something - it must always be remembered that disseminating accurate information is not his goal. His goal is to spin the truth in order to fit an agenda, which requires us to wonder why he would bother saying anything that was not part of that agenda.

That other opinionators do the same thing still does not mean that O'Reilly can be relied upon. We repeat his "facts" around the watercooler each morning by imperiling our own credibility.
drhead
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7/23/2013 11:14:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 1:32:07 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
No joke though, when Bill O' Reilly starts making sense, you know the situation is REALLY messed up:



The video is of his recent talking points he did on the issue of the "Race Problem" in America. The problem in question of course being, not only the profiling of young African American males by law enforcement, but the condition of the many African American communities in the country today.

A few noteworthy statements he made:

"From the president on down, our leadership has no clue at all how to deal with the problems of the black community."
"Young African Americans are so often criminally profiled, because they are so often involved in crime."

This one statistic alone just blows the mind: "Young African Americans commit homicide at a rate 10 TIMES, that's right, 10 TIMES THAT OF CAUCASIANS AND HISPANICS" COMBINED

So are we even going to consider that this is possibly due to poverty and the resulting lack of education?

"and what does the Civil Rights "Industry"(NAACP etc.) have to say about that? They make excuses, without actually addressing THE CORE ISSUES THAT CAUSE THIS TO HAPPEN.It's guns, its lack of education, its lack of jobs, etc."

Of course. Dismiss the obvious answer.

"The reason there is so much violence and chaos in African American communities, is the disintegration of the African American family."

I'll just say wrichcirw had a nice point on this one.

"About 73% of all African American children born, are born, OUT OF WEDLOCK. This not only drives poverty, but the lack of involved fathers, leads to children, not just young boys, but especially young buys, to grow up RESENTFUL AND UNSUPERVISED."

And what causes this? Any reason why it isn't poverty?

"Honestly, ask yourself, when was the last time you saw a public service ad counseling young black women to avoid becoming pregnant? Where is the demand for ads such as these, that address this one, of a few core issues at hand? Where is the NAACP demanding these ads? Where is the congressional black caucus demanding these? Al Sharpton? NOWHERE TO BE FOUND"

I don't know, perhaps it is because people don't like it when you tell a certain group not to breed. If that's not what they are saying, that is how it will be interpreted.

"Caucasians, or people of any other race, DO NOT FORCE AFRICAN AMERICANS TO HAVE BABIES OUT OF WEDLOCK. THAT IS A PERSONAL DECISION."

And why does this personal decision get made?

"Raised without structure or supervision, young African often reject education, and gravitate towards vice. Nobody forces them to do that, again, it is a personal decision."

Again, why does this decision get made?

"The Drug Epidemic destroyed a city like Detroit. Addiction leads to crime and debasement."

"The thugs who sell hard drugs, no matter what color they are, deserve to be put away for LONG periods of time."

"They sell poison, they sell a product that enslaves and kills, THEY ARE SCUM. When was the last time you heard Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton say something like that?"

And what causes these people to deal drugs? What leads them to believe that this is a better option, or the only option?

"The solution to the problem of violent crime in poor African American neighborhoods is:

-To discourage pregnancies out of wedlock
-To impose strict discipline in public schools

Where did this second one come from?

-To enact a zero-tolerance policy for gun and drug related crimes, imposing mandatory prison sentences for offenders.
-Challenge the entertainment industry to stop peddling garbage"

"If a kid can't speak proper English, uses the F-word in every sentence, is disrespectful in his or her manner, that child will NEVER, EVER BE ABLE TO COMPETE IN THE MARKETPLACE OF AMERICA."

"It has nothing to do with slavery, and it has everything to do with Hollywood, and derelict parents. You are the ones hurting these vulnerable children."

"You can't legislate good parenting, and responsible entertainment, but you can fight against it with discipline, a firm message, and little tolerance for excuses."

Yes, this sounds quite a bit like Fox News. Approach an argument from the angle that best serves your confirmation bias, and don't mention the other factors. Such as the actual causes of said problems.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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7/23/2013 11:24:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:14:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Oh, and I demand that the police profile all men since 99% of violent criminals are men. I think all men should be stopped and frisked.

OK, but only if we are frisked by hot women.
DeFool
Posts: 626
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7/23/2013 11:54:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"The reason there is so much violence and chaos in African American communities, is the disintegration of the African American family."

I will quibble here. There is nothing wrong with African American families, they are not disintegrating. It is where these family supports do not exist that there is the problem. This situation is rapidly resolving itself, moreover.

One of the main struggles faced by the black community as they try to maintain healthy and strong family structures is the absolutely inherent racism found within our penal system. A black young man is going to need to learn how to be a suspect in a crime at a very early age. He will be suspected of drug use, of coming from an impoverished or drug addicted family, of shoplifting, of thuggery, and of wanton lust.

This will happen. It will happen with an absolute degree of certainty.

Many of these young men will look suspicious simply browsing in a store, others will seem suspicious walking home from that store with a bag of candy. When confronted by the authorities, a portion of these innocent young men will be incarcerated. As it turns out, a very large portion of them will be incarcerated.

These are men with families, families that they respect and honor, but will not be able to maintain once they lose their bets with our justice system.

Are all black men innocent of any crime? Are all police officers racists? Do not strawman this argument with exaggerated, wild claims. I am saying that a number that is too large is falling victim to this institutional racism, and that this situation was deconstructing the African American family much more than any lack of community.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/23/2013 12:24:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 1:32:07 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
No joke though, when Bill O' Reilly starts making sense, you know the situation is REALLY messed up:



The video is of his recent talking points he did on the issue of the "Race Problem" in America. The problem in question of course being, not only the profiling of young African American males by law enforcement, but the condition of the many African American communities in the country today.

A few noteworthy statements he made:

"From the president on down, our leadership has no clue at all how to deal with the problems of the black community."
"Young African Americans are so often criminally profiled, because they are so often involved in crime."

This one statistic alone just blows the mind: "Young African Americans commit homicide at a rate 10 TIMES, that's right, 10 TIMES THAT OF CAUCASIANS AND HISPANICS" COMBINED

http://www.cdc.gov...

Actually, it is only 3 times as much. It still ought to be address, but gross exaggerations only hurt the cause.


"and what does the Civil Rights "Industry"(NAACP etc.) have to say about that? They make excuses, without actually addressing THE CORE ISSUES THAT CAUSE THIS TO HAPPEN.It's guns, its lack of education, its lack of jobs, etc."

"The reason there is so much violence and chaos in African American communities, is the disintegration of the African American family."

"About 73% of all African American children born, are born, OUT OF WEDLOCK. This not only drives poverty, but the lack of involved fathers, leads to children, not just young boys, but especially young buys, to grow up RESENTFUL AND UNSUPERVISED."

This fails to mention that the total American rate is 41% and something that has been growing yearly, however black crime is actually going down, quite significantly (murder is down over 50% from 1991, while whites are down less than 40%). Clearly the trend shows that it is not related to the family status, as family status has been getting "worse" yet crime has been getting better. This would indicate that it actually is the economic and educational factors.

http://www.cdc.gov...
http://www.bjs.gov...


"Honestly, ask yourself, when was the last time you saw a public service ad counseling young black women to avoid becoming pregnant? Where is the demand for ads such as these, that address this one, of a few core issues at hand? Where is the NAACP demanding these ads? Where is the congressional black caucus demanding these? Al Sharpton? NOWHERE TO BE FOUND"

"Caucasians, or people of any other race, DO NOT FORCE AFRICAN AMERICANS TO HAVE BABIES OUT OF WEDLOCK. THAT IS A PERSONAL DECISION."

"Raised without structure or supervision, young African often reject education, and gravitate towards vice. Nobody forces them to do that, again, it is a personal decision."

"The Drug Epidemic destroyed a city like Detroit. Addiction leads to crime and debasement."

"The thugs who sell hard drugs, no matter what color they are, deserve to be put away for LONG periods of time."

"They sell poison, they sell a product that enslaves and kills, THEY ARE SCUM. When was the last time you heard Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton say something like that?"

"The solution to the problem of violent crime in poor African American neighborhoods is:

-To discourage pregnancies out of wedlock
-To impose strict discipline in public schools
-To enact a zero-tolerance policy for gun and drug related crimes, imposing mandatory prison sentences for offenders.
-Challenge the entertainment industry to stop peddling garbage"

"If a kid can't speak proper English, uses the F-word in every sentence, is disrespectful in his or her manner, that child will NEVER, EVER BE ABLE TO COMPETE IN THE MARKETPLACE OF AMERICA."

"It has nothing to do with slavery, and it has everything to do with Hollywood, and derelict parents. You are the ones hurting these vulnerable children."

"You can't legislate good parenting, and responsible entertainment, but you can fight against it with discipline, a firm message, and little tolerance for excuses."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/23/2013 12:33:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'd argue that the war on drugs, which dis-proportionally affects minorities such as black Americans, removes the presence of fathers in a community. As a result, poverty is aggravated and childhood development is impaired.

Additionally, the public school system has so far in many areas left children unprepared for the future.

Decriminalizing drugs, and improving education (school choice, and/or charter schools) will both reduce poverty and are key to revitalizing our urban areas.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
DeFool
Posts: 626
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7/23/2013 4:30:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 12:33:04 PM, Contra wrote:
I'd argue that the war on drugs, which dis-proportionally affects minorities such as black Americans, removes the presence of fathers in a community. As a result, poverty is aggravated and childhood development is impaired.

Additionally, the public school system has so far in many areas left children unprepared for the future.

Decriminalizing drugs, and improving education (school choice, and/or charter schools) will both reduce poverty and are key to revitalizing our urban areas.

I agree with much of this, and so will second some of it.

We need to legalize marijuana for recreational use, and immediately grant amnesty to most of those currently incarcerated for possession or use of marijuana. This will not happen.

We cannot legalize harder drugs, they are less safe than 1920's packed meat.

It is not proper to assume that the war on drugs impacts the black community disproportionately without noting that most drug users in the US are not black. African Americans are simply more likely to be arrested and incarcerated; they are not more likely to actually be drug users.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/23/2013 4:54:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 4:30:19 PM, DeFool wrote:
At 7/23/2013 12:33:04 PM, Contra wrote:
I'd argue that the war on drugs, which dis-proportionally affects minorities such as black Americans, removes the presence of fathers in a community. As a result, poverty is aggravated and childhood development is impaired.

Additionally, the public school system has so far in many areas left children unprepared for the future.

Decriminalizing drugs, and improving education (school choice, and/or charter schools) will both reduce poverty and are key to revitalizing our urban areas.

I agree with much of this, and so will second some of it.

Glad we can agree.

We need to legalize marijuana for recreational use, and immediately grant amnesty to most of those currently incarcerated for possession or use of marijuana. This will not happen.

Great ideas. And they will probably occur within a few decades.

We cannot legalize harder drugs, they are less safe than 1920's packed meat.

LSD isn't that harmful. Cocaine isn't that deadly either, nor heroin. And with a marketplace for drugs, the quality will improve (less adulterants and thus higher safety), and crime will fall.

Meth and crack, as well as PCP and other drugs are surely harmful. But lighter substances such as pot and cocaine are safer substitutes.

It is not proper to assume that the war on drugs impacts the black community disproportionately without noting that most drug users in the US are not black. African Americans are simply more likely to be arrested and incarcerated; they are not more likely to actually be drug users.

Bingo.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
DeFool
Posts: 626
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7/24/2013 7:34:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 4:54:29 PM, Contra wrote:
At 7/23/2013 4:30:19 PM, DeFool wrote:
At 7/23/2013 12:33:04 PM, Contra wrote:
I'd argue that the war on drugs, which dis-proportionally affects minorities such as black Americans, removes the presence of fathers in a community. As a result, poverty is aggravated and childhood development is impaired.

Additionally, the public school system has so far in many areas left children unprepared for the future.

Decriminalizing drugs, and improving education (school choice, and/or charter schools) will both reduce poverty and are key to revitalizing our urban areas.

I agree with much of this, and so will second some of it.

Glad we can agree.

We need to legalize marijuana for recreational use, and immediately grant amnesty to most of those currently incarcerated for possession or use of marijuana. This will not happen.

Great ideas. And they will probably occur within a few decades.

We cannot legalize harder drugs, they are less safe than 1920's packed meat.

LSD isn't that harmful. Cocaine isn't that deadly either, nor heroin. And with a marketplace for drugs, the quality will improve (less adulterants and thus higher safety), and crime will fall.

Meth and crack, as well as PCP and other drugs are surely harmful. But lighter substances such as pot and cocaine are safer substitutes.

It is not proper to assume that the war on drugs impacts the black community disproportionately without noting that most drug users in the US are not black. African Americans are simply more likely to be arrested and incarcerated; they are not more likely to actually be drug users.

Bingo.

I cannot be seen agreeing with a libertarian. It's wrong; I have to fight down an nearly irresistible urge to quibble over any small thing...
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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7/24/2013 8:49:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:14:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Oh, and I demand that the police profile all men since 99% of violent criminals are men. I think all men should be stopped and frisked.

If there is valid reason, I don't have a problem with it.

It's funny, me and my wife got into an argument (yelling, me punching the car) in a parking lot. Someone called the police.

They came, separated us (putting her in the squad car), and were actually pressuring her to press charges on me, asking her at least five times if she is scared of me. She was asked if there was anywhere she could go for the night (friend, relative).

After they left, the tension broke, and we laughed. She was actually more angry at the police (and the person who called them) than I was. (For the record, I have never laid a hand on my wife)

However, did you notice this was profiling? There was yelling and potential for violence from a "witness" who was concerned. Yet, why was she asked if she was afraid of me, and me and the cop barely spoke. Why wasn't I asked if I was afraid of her???

I have no problem with this profiling of me, since, given the circumstances and the police's knowledge, it was the most logical liklihood.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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7/24/2013 8:50:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:14:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Oh, and I demand that the police profile all men since 99% of violent criminals are men. I think all men should be stopped and frisked.

Oh, and standard SOP for police investigations of a woman's death in the home is to look at the husband/boyfriend first, isn't it?
My work here is, finally, done.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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7/24/2013 9:19:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 8:49:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:14:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Oh, and I demand that the police profile all men since 99% of violent criminals are men. I think all men should be stopped and frisked.

If there is valid reason, I don't have a problem with it.

It's funny, me and my wife got into an argument (yelling, me punching the car) in a parking lot. Someone called the police.

They came, separated us (putting her in the squad car), and were actually pressuring her to press charges on me, asking her at least five times if she is scared of me. She was asked if there was anywhere she could go for the night (friend, relative).

After they left, the tension broke, and we laughed. She was actually more angry at the police (and the person who called them) than I was. (For the record, I have never laid a hand on my wife)

However, did you notice this was profiling? There was yelling and potential for violence from a "witness" who was concerned. Yet, why was she asked if she was afraid of me, and me and the cop barely spoke. Why wasn't I asked if I was afraid of her???

I have no problem with this profiling of me, since, given the circumstances and the police's knowledge, it was the most logical liklihood.

You were the one who was punching your car, so it makes sense that they would ask her since you were the one who displayed violent actions. This was behavioral profiling, and not gender profiling.
jimtimmy2
Posts: 403
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7/24/2013 9:23:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Bill O Reilly thinks escalating the drug war is going to reduce black crime and improve the black community.

That is simply insane. We have a real problem with higher homicide and theft rates in the black community.

But, making criminals out of poor blacks who are addicted to drugs and this tearing apart black communities just to force our sense of "anti drug" morals on them does no good for anyone.
the_croftmeister
Posts: 678
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7/24/2013 9:33:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 8:50:55 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:14:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Oh, and I demand that the police profile all men since 99% of violent criminals are men. I think all men should be stopped and frisked.

Oh, and standard SOP for police investigations of a woman's death in the home is to look at the husband/boyfriend first, isn't it?
If it isn't it should be. Though they should be as discrete and sensitive about it as possible. It should be standard to look at the girlfriend when a man dies also though.
jimtimmy2
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7/24/2013 9:45:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:14:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Oh, and I demand that the police profile all men since 99% of violent criminals are men. I think all men should be stopped and frisked.

Men ARE profiled by police.

Anyone who has had experience with cops knows this.