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Abortion and ObamaCare and Planned Parenthood

DeFool
Posts: 626
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8/6/2013 6:31:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Many Conservatives believe that life begins at conception. What if that was the law of the land. How would it alter the enforcement of our laws affecting a pregnant woman, healthcare providers, and other parties?

Would denying a woman access to family planning clinics, and free or reduced price neonatal nutrition and well checks....also be an act of denying am unborn baby access to neonatal nutrition and well checks?
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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8/6/2013 11:14:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/6/2013 6:31:36 PM, DeFool wrote:
Many Conservatives believe that life begins at conception. What if that was the law of the land. How would it alter the enforcement of our laws affecting a pregnant woman, healthcare providers, and other parties?

The same way they did it back than. Wait until after the pregnancy.
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DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/6/2013 11:16:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't follow the logic of going from illegalizing abortion to denying women neonatal wellness checks and nutrition.
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Or any man that breathes on earth.

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DeFool
Posts: 626
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8/6/2013 11:42:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/6/2013 11:16:54 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I don't follow the logic of going from illegalizing abortion to denying women neonatal wellness checks and nutrition.

There is no real "logic" to the animosity that some feel towards both abortion and contraception, women's health care and food stamps. Unless we include the sexual habits of the woman. Otherwise, this makes no sense to me, either.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/7/2013 1:10:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/6/2013 11:42:36 PM, DeFool wrote:
There is no real "logic" to the animosity that some feel towards both abortion and contraception, women's health care and food stamps.

There is no real logic for your support of eugenics organizations like Planned Parenthood. You are just like Hillary and Obama who openly praise eugenics.

"Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need. We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock."
-- Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review.

"Eugenics is the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems."
-- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."
-- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
-- Margaret Sanger (editor). The Woman Rebel, Volume I, Number 1. Reprinted in Woman and the New Race. New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1922.

Do not even try to dispute these quotes, Hillary Clinton testified before Congress and admitted that Planned Parenthood founder, Margaret Sanger said this.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DeFool
Posts: 626
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8/7/2013 4:08:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I wouldn't dream of gainsaying these quotes. I also do not agree that they represent my views on the subject. My views on this topic can be summed up as "government small enough to fit inside a uterus is not small government."

My question to you, GeoLaurate, is:

If life begins at conception, shouldn't we try to protect that unborn life with food stamps, well-checks, screenings and universal health care for the mother-incubators?
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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8/7/2013 4:33:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/7/2013 1:10:59 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:42:36 PM, DeFool wrote:
There is no real "logic" to the animosity that some feel towards both abortion and contraception, women's health care and food stamps.

There is no real logic for your support of eugenics organizations like Planned Parenthood. You are just like Hillary and Obama who openly praise eugenics.

"Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need. We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock."
-- Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review.

"Eugenics is the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems."
-- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."
-- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
-- Margaret Sanger (editor). The Woman Rebel, Volume I, Number 1. Reprinted in Woman and the New Race. New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1922.

Do not even try to dispute these quotes, Hillary Clinton testified before Congress and admitted that Planned Parenthood founder, Margaret Sanger said this.

Wat.

Is the logical connection here supposed to be that since Sanger is a eugenics supporter and founded Planned Parenthood, that Planned Parenthood is therefore a eugenics organization (Also, how does one have a eugenics program that is based on voluntary actions like what Planned Parenthood does, where people consent to birth control)?

Under that logic, Tesla was a eugenics supporter, so I guess alternating current and tesla coils are eugenics devices.
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/7/2013 4:50:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/7/2013 1:10:59 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:42:36 PM, DeFool wrote:
There is no real "logic" to the animosity that some feel towards both abortion and contraception, women's health care and food stamps.

There is no real logic for your support of eugenics organizations like Planned Parenthood. You are just like Hillary and Obama who openly praise eugenics.

"Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need. We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock."
-- Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review.

"Eugenics is the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems."
-- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."
-- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
-- Margaret Sanger (editor). The Woman Rebel, Volume I, Number 1. Reprinted in Woman and the New Race. New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1922.

Do not even try to dispute these quotes, Hillary Clinton testified before Congress and admitted that Planned Parenthood founder, Margaret Sanger said this.

You DO know that at the time eugenics was a major social movement fully supported by most state governments before 1920, right? Womens groups in the South were responsible for getting legislation to legalize eugenics.

At best, Sanger was jumping on the bandwagon. She resigned from the magazine she was with when it came out in favor of forced sterilizations.

You may as well say the Medicaid should be overthrow because the US supported eugenics in the 1920s.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/7/2013 5:40:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/7/2013 4:33:57 PM, drhead wrote:
Is the logical connection here supposed to be that since Sanger is a eugenics supporter and founded Planned Parenthood, that Planned Parenthood is therefore a eugenics organization (Also, how does one have a eugenics program that is based on voluntary actions like what Planned Parenthood does, where people consent to birth control)?

Under that logic, Tesla was a eugenics supporter, so I guess alternating current and tesla coils are eugenics devices.

"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."
-- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda."
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/7/2013 5:43:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/7/2013 4:08:38 PM, DeFool wrote:
I wouldn't dream of gainsaying these quotes. I also do not agree that they represent my views on the subject. My views on this topic can be summed up as "government small enough to fit inside a uterus is not small government."

My question to you, GeoLaurate, is:

If life begins at conception, shouldn't we try to protect that unborn life with food stamps, well-checks, screenings and universal health care for the mother-incubators?

Your question is, do I believe parents should provide for themselves and their children or do I believe the state should raise children for the parents.

I believe parents should care for their children and in a free market the parents will have the opportunity to prosper and earn a living.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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8/7/2013 6:41:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/7/2013 5:40:10 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/7/2013 4:33:57 PM, drhead wrote:
Is the logical connection here supposed to be that since Sanger is a eugenics supporter and founded Planned Parenthood, that Planned Parenthood is therefore a eugenics organization (Also, how does one have a eugenics program that is based on voluntary actions like what Planned Parenthood does, where people consent to birth control)?

Under that logic, Tesla was a eugenics supporter, so I guess alternating current and tesla coils are eugenics devices.

"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."
-- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda."

"Showing a quote with buzzwords is not an argument, no matter how many times you copy and paste it. You have to elaborate."
-- drhead
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
DeFool
Posts: 626
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8/7/2013 11:13:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/7/2013 5:43:00 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/7/2013 4:08:38 PM, DeFool wrote:
I wouldn't dream of gainsaying these quotes. I also do not agree that they represent my views on the subject. My views on this topic can be summed up as "government small enough to fit inside a uterus is not small government."

My question to you, GeoLaurate, is:

If life begins at conception, shouldn't we try to protect that unborn life with food stamps, well-checks, screenings and universal health care for the mother-incubators?

Your question is, do I believe parents should provide for themselves and their children or do I believe the state should raise children for the parents.

I believe parents should care for their children and in a free market the parents will have the opportunity to prosper and earn a living.

I see. Somalia had a free market, completely free of any market regulation whatsoever. Do you assert that the women of Somalia were prospering during this period?

But it is noted that you seem to support abortion in cases of poverty, when the women do not benefit from removing the minimum wages from them. Which is unexpected.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/8/2013 12:51:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/7/2013 6:41:36 PM, drhead wrote:
At 8/7/2013 5:40:10 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/7/2013 4:33:57 PM, drhead wrote:
Under that logic, Tesla was a eugenics supporter, so I guess alternating current and tesla coils are eugenics devices.

"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."
-- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda."

"Showing a quote with buzzwords is not an argument, no matter how many times you copy and paste it. You have to elaborate."
-- drhead

You dishonestly tried to use false analogies to show that Margaret Sangers' eugenicism and Planned Parenthood birth control are not connected when I showed you an explicit quote from Margaret Sanger explaining that her birth control agenda was identical to the aims of eugenics.

Of course alternating current and Tesla coils have nothing to do with his alleged eugenics beliefs, but that's because Tesla coils are not Planned Parenthood birth control operations.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/8/2013 12:55:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/7/2013 11:13:51 PM, DeFool wrote:
I see. Somalia had a free market, completely free of any market regulation whatsoever. Do you assert that the women of Somalia were prospering during this period?

A free market requires a Constitutional Republic to actually work. Somalia did not have a government to protect individual rights, property rights, and enforce contracts.

But it is noted that you seem to support abortion in cases of poverty, when the women do not benefit from removing the minimum wages from them. Which is unexpected.

This statement is hardly coherent. Let me state that I am pro-life but I don't believe that the government should instate laws that ban abortion.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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8/8/2013 1:51:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 12:51:58 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/7/2013 6:41:36 PM, drhead wrote:
At 8/7/2013 5:40:10 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/7/2013 4:33:57 PM, drhead wrote:
Under that logic, Tesla was a eugenics supporter, so I guess alternating current and tesla coils are eugenics devices.

"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."
-- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda."

"Showing a quote with buzzwords is not an argument, no matter how many times you copy and paste it. You have to elaborate."
-- drhead

You dishonestly tried to use false analogies to show that Margaret Sangers' eugenicism and Planned Parenthood birth control are not connected when I showed you an explicit quote from Margaret Sanger explaining that her birth control agenda was identical to the aims of eugenics.

Of course alternating current and Tesla coils have nothing to do with his alleged eugenics beliefs, but that's because Tesla coils are not Planned Parenthood birth control operations.

Alright then, demonstrate how Planned Parenthood forces people who are deemed inferior to not have children and you'll have a case.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/8/2013 11:11:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 1:51:56 AM, drhead wrote:
Alright then, demonstrate how Planned Parenthood forces people who are deemed inferior to not have children and you'll have a case.

"Sanger was a proponent of negative eugenics, which aims to improve human hereditary traits through social intervention by reducing reproduction by those considered unfit. Sanger's eugenic policies included an exclusionary immigration policy, free access to birth control methods and full family planning autonomy for the able-minded, and compulsory segregation or sterilization for the profoundly retarded."

https://en.wikipedia.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DeFool
Posts: 626
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8/8/2013 11:49:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/7/2013 5:43:00 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/7/2013 4:08:38 PM, DeFool wrote:
I wouldn't dream of gainsaying these quotes. I also do not agree that they represent my views on the subject. My views on this topic can be summed up as "government small enough to fit inside a uterus is not small government."

My question to you, GeoLaurate, is:

If life begins at conception, shouldn't we try to protect that unborn life with food stamps, well-checks, screenings and universal health care for the mother-incubators?

Your question is, do I believe parents should provide for themselves and their children or do I believe the state should raise children for the parents.

I believe parents should care for their children and in a free market the parents will have the opportunity to prosper and earn a living.

Help me to interpret this statement. Here is how I see it currently:

P1: Parents should care for their children (Implied: without help)

P2: (Implied) Those sections of society that wish to combine parenting efforts should not be allowed to do so through democratic means, but only as individuals

P3: A free market will create so much prosperity that poverty will be proof of a character defect, such as laziness or stupidity

P4: (Implied) The children of lazy or stupid parents do not deserve assistance

P5: (Implied) If a parent lives outside of the a free market system, then that parent is excused for an inability to obtain prosperity

P6: (Implied) If society refuses to implement a free market system, then it deserves the pain that comes from poverty
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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8/8/2013 12:20:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 11:11:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/8/2013 1:51:56 AM, drhead wrote:
Alright then, demonstrate how Planned Parenthood forces people who are deemed inferior to not have children and you'll have a case.

"Sanger was a proponent of negative eugenics, which aims to improve human hereditary traits through social intervention by reducing reproduction by those considered unfit. Sanger's eugenic policies included an exclusionary immigration policy, free access to birth control methods and full family planning autonomy for the able-minded, and compulsory segregation or sterilization for the profoundly retarded."

https://en.wikipedia.org...

I was talking about Planned Parenthood as it exists today, not necessarily about Margaret Sanger's views. Do you see Planned Parenthood going around doing forced sterilizations?
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian