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COP15 - What are your views?

Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/14/2009 10:50:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The Conference of Parties 15 (COP15, also known as the Copenhagen Conference) was called in order to create and build consensus towards a new internationally binding treaty between UN member states concerning the reduction of greenhouse gasses in order to stave off climate change.

Regardless of what is believed about the science, most agree that a reduction in pollution and a movement towards sustainable development is generally in every nation's best interest. Yet, despite this broadly-held belief, Copenhagen has moved slowly; there have been talks about developed nations holding back-room negotiations while excluding developing countries, leading earlier today to the suspension of talks between these groups (though talks have now resumed: http://www.cbc.ca...)

Anyways, I was wondering what are people's views here on COP15? Is it a worthwhile endeavour?
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/14/2009 10:58:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/14/2009 10:50:02 AM, Volkov wrote:
The Conference of Parties 15 (COP15, also known as the Copenhagen Conference) was called in order to create and build consensus towards a new internationally binding treaty between UN member states concerning the reduction of greenhouse gasses in order to stave off climate change.

Regardless of what is believed about the science, most agree that a reduction in pollution and a movement towards sustainable development is generally in every nation's best interest. Yet, despite this broadly-held belief, Copenhagen has moved slowly; there have been talks about developed nations holding back-room negotiations while excluding developing countries, leading earlier today to the suspension of talks between these groups (though talks have now resumed: http://www.cbc.ca...)

Anyways, I was wondering what are people's views here on COP15? Is it a worthwhile endeavour?

If it's centered around Co2 emmisions, it really depends on if the science behind GW is good. And the recent (this year) cool down does give one pause, though it could just be a small, and ultimately not too meaningful, fluctuation (though since Co2 emmissions grow every year, one would expect the temp to go up every year too).

I would think the summit is mostly around GW.

I'd definitely like to see more action on things like international overfishing, pollution which affects stuff like mercury levels in fish, and other kinds of resource management.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/14/2009 11:05:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/14/2009 10:58:45 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I'd definitely like to see more action on things like international overfishing, pollution which affects stuff like mercury levels in fish, and other kinds of resource management.

I agree. Though the conference is aimed at CO2 emissions, I don't see why it should stop there. Sustainability is probably a larger issue at hand than emissions themselves, because what is more pressing - emissions that have an iffy effect on climate, or the fact that people in poorer countries starve because their food supplies get f*cked over too quickly with unsustainable agricultural practices?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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12/14/2009 11:10:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
It could easily bring about anything from zero changes bar paper promises to reduce emissions to a worldwide Cap 'N Trade system.

The developing nations are eager and nervous; The Africans want to stop desertification in Africa but at the same time the Asian tiger economies don't want cap on their economic powerhouses.

Most nations aren't exalted about this - They don't want to further cripple industry durign a recession with emissions limits. At the same time they need to meet the demands of people at home.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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12/14/2009 11:22:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
This recent year isn't exactly a "cool-down"... GW is now called "climate change", because scientists realize that it isn't going to be a straightforward increase in temperature that is the end result of C02 (at least in the very short-term). Each location has certain impacts that are predicted to occur. I live in Wisconsin, which has followed the predictions this year to a T. CC predicts that Wisconsin will actually experience fewer snow events as CC picks up, but the ones we do experience will be more violent/stormlike. Indeed, this year we had a snow-less October (not too uncommon), a snow-less November (quite uncommon), and a snow-less first week of December. Our first snow was an absolute blizzard which completely shut the entire town down - it snowed non-stop for 24 hours straight and we got ~18". This is highly unusual, as every year like clockwork we will get several teaser dustings before anything sticks, a far cry from the pattern we are now experiencing. We usually don't get an event like this until January or so, after many lower-grade snowfalls. We will have to wait and see if this is a coincidence or if this pattern will continue throughout the rest of the year and beyond.

I think that measurements of snow-topped mountains and iceburgs, which are experiencing huge drops in mass, are pretty convincing of that there is some warming occuring. Most people also don't realize that a mere 5 degree change in Earth's climate equates massive destruction that would dramatically change life as we know it on this planet. The difference between an ice-covered Earth and a world where reptiles are basking on the north pole is only several degrees (Earth naturally fluctuates between these 2 states, but it takes millions of years, as opposed to the very short range we are working with now)... It doesn't take a 40 degree change to make this shift like you may come to think. Furthermore, just about everything we are trying to measure in this respect to this problem is accellerating faster than any of our previous models predicted.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/14/2009 11:26:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Try and not make this a debate about the science behind climate change - I want to know about COP15, not Al Gore.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/14/2009 11:29:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/14/2009 11:26:28 AM, Volkov wrote:
Try and not make this a debate about the science behind climate change - I want to know about COP15, not Al Gore.

Vi has a picture of Al Gore hanging on our refrigerator. She's ridiculous lol.
President of DDO
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/14/2009 11:40:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/14/2009 11:22:04 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
This recent year isn't exactly a "cool-down"... GW is now called "climate change", because scientists realize that it isn't going to be a straightforward increase in temperature that is the end result of C02 (at least in the very short-term).

Yes. But it's climate change in the (overall) positive direction.
thus: Warming.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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12/14/2009 7:22:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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12/14/2009 8:13:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ah, yes, the Copenhagen Conference, where political leaders take their taxpayer-funded fuel-consuming private jets and limos to a conference to pledge that the taxpayers will use less oil, all the while continuing to abuse the luxuries providable by government to government.

http://women.timesonline.co.uk...
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/14/2009 11:24:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/14/2009 8:13:53 PM, mongeese wrote:
Ah, yes, the Copenhagen Conference, where political leaders take their taxpayer-funded fuel-consuming private jets and limos to a conference to pledge that the taxpayers will use less oil, all the while continuing to abuse the luxuries providable by government to government.

Damn straight. Mind you, I suspect the leaders of the countries that are, you know, overseas, have a valid excuse for using their jets to get to Denmark. It isn't as if they can swim.

Besides, everyone knows the majority of this is simply power politics. But who cares? It works, because leaders know if they come back with actual promises and work done, they'll gain praise and support at home, and continue their strangle on power. They aren't going there to simply look pretty (well, thats probably 50% of the reason) - they came to do business.

So who cares about private jets and limousines? 'Tisn't what it is about - its about who comes out looking good, and who comes out with benefits.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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12/15/2009 2:18:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Brilliant idea: teleconference!
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/15/2009 2:53:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/15/2009 2:18:35 PM, mongoose wrote:
Brilliant idea: teleconference!

That fails on many levels. There is more at stake than simply talk.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/18/2009 7:16:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/18/2009 5:10:44 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
We has breakthrough http://news.bbc.co.uk...

And without any meaningful Canadian input! http://www.cbc.ca...

I love it when our elected officials sit on their "behinds." (damn swear filter)
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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12/18/2009 7:20:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/18/2009 7:16:27 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 12/18/2009 5:10:44 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
We has breakthrough http://news.bbc.co.uk...

And without any meaningful Canadian input! http://www.cbc.ca...

I love it when our elected officials sit on their "behinds." (damn swear filter)

No doubt Stevie will take some credit for this... right up on that bandwagon. That's the neo-con way !! :D
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/18/2009 7:30:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/18/2009 7:20:47 AM, MikeLoviN wrote:
No doubt Stevie will take some credit for this... right up on that bandwagon. That's the neo-con way !! :D

Of course there is no doubt! Yet, he won't even be saying a single word while there. He might as well not have bothered going, but hey, you gotta get the photo ops in right! If he makes it to them, that is...
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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12/18/2009 8:52:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/14/2009 8:13:53 PM, mongeese wrote:
Ah, yes, the Copenhagen Conference, where political leaders take their taxpayer-funded fuel-consuming private jets and limos to a conference to pledge that the taxpayers will use less oil, all the while continuing to abuse the luxuries providable by government to government.


Damn right, they should set a good example and use public transport.

Mind you, in England a bloke was actually jailed for taking a bus home...

http://news.bbc.co.uk...
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/18/2009 9:47:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/18/2009 8:52:31 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:


Mind you, in England a bloke was actually jailed for taking a bus home...

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

You are pretty good with providing evidence
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."