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Forced to be Conservative?

lannan13
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8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?
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Naysayer
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8/13/2013 5:52:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

? How many of these were your choices? Granted, you might be pressured into a religion by your parents/culture, but no one can tell you what to actually believe. I'm quite certain you took your own oaths in the military. And the flat tax decision was also yours. There are Democrats that are openly against abortion. (Shh, don't tell. That's a big, dirty secret to the DNC.) Clearly you've made up your own mind about global warming.

I guess I'm just not sure where you are going with this. Where are you leaning now?
imabench
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8/13/2013 5:57:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flat tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

Half and half really. You admit to always choosing to be pro-military and support a flat tax but the abortion and global warming thing seems to have been crammed down your throat pretty hard.
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YYW
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8/13/2013 5:59:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

I think that you've made a fairly solid case that you were influenced to become a republican by those around you, but you still made the choice to believe what you came to believe. However, being pro-security and pro-military isn't so much a democratic or republican thing because now both parties have divergent trends regarding both of those subjects. I don't think, though, that even if one is against abortion, that it means that one must be a Republican (there are pro-choice republicans and pro-life democrats). Global climate change is another subject, though.

(I've heard some pretty strong arguments from French researchers that suggested that we are only now seeing such dramatic climate change because we have reduced carbon emissions which were the norm since the industrial revolution.... but that's another topic.)

I also think that you're still trying to figure out how to understand the world, and that's a good thing. No teenager (or 20 something, myself included) has all the answers, and none are expected to. It's ok to change perspectives, and I would argue that it's a good thing because it shows personal development over time. So, keep paying attention to things and keep thinking about the issues. The national conversations about the big social issues are not over, even though the laws are fairly established, so to that extend they still matter. But even more so, the national conversation about the liberty-security dilemma is front and center, and it's equally splitting both parties.
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drhead
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8/14/2013 1:27:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

It seems like you were anywhere from gently nudged to forced on social issues, but came to your own conclusion on economic and foreign policy issues. You could have been a Libertarian, foreign policy aside.

As an experiment, I'd suggest doing research on abortion from a pro-choice stance (about as much as you'd need for a 10-page essay) to see if it influences your view any. You might be surprised at the results.
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donald.keller
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8/14/2013 2:06:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

Ultimately, you are still choosing to be a Conservative Republican.

Why isn't there a 'Forced to be Liberal' forum? <.<
That is irrelevant though. Just thinking out loud.
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Lordknukle
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8/14/2013 2:38:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It also explains why you are illiterate.
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Homosapien
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8/14/2013 3:34:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

Hello Iannan13,

Well raised topic sir,

I wold submit that you are not alone in this line of thinking, particularly with any conservative values, this is because of conservatisms principle origins in believe that people are fundamentally selfish, ergo the state should encourage a cohesive society by playing on peoples desire to gain over thier peers (source1)

This origin differs radically from anything we might call left-wing or socialist which essentially takes the opposite stance on the matter and is for some a much more attractive proposition on principle.

This is important to remember because these core tenenats affect policy on the left and right. If you were to place your flag in a camp, then to begin with I really would recommend looking into the core principles of conservativism and other ideologies as this will at least allow you to make a decision upon core ideology instead of specific issues, I have included some things that may be of interest in source 2 sir.

As for your specific situation, you should not feel 'forced' into any stance on a political issue (one might argue this is exactly what as a military man you are fighting against) and instead feel compelled because upon the evidence and own moral/ethical standards you have come to a decision of your own accord.

I am sorry I cannot be of more help on specific areas such as abortion sir, but keeping within good taste, I would not want to bombard anyone with my own arguments when they are still clearly weighing up a great deal in thier own minds.

Finally sir, you may well be interested in the direct swiss democracy outlined in source 3, specifically this nation focuses on the use of refurendums on specific issues, while this raises it's own debate, it would at least allow you to support the right on some issues and the left on others, although I do not know of a similar party in the United States, there are a few direct democracy parties in Australia and the United Kingdom I know of.

Kindest Regards,
Ben

Source 1:
Quotes from Edmund Burke -

"All government, indeed every human benefit and enjoyment, every virtue, and every prudent act, is founded on compromise and barter."

"People crushed by laws, have no hope but to evade power. If the laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to the law; and those who have most to hope and nothing to lose will always be dangerous."

"Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government."

Source 2:

http://www.livescience.com...

http://www.psych.nyu.edu...(2007)%20Psychological%20needs%20and%20values%20underlying%20left-right%20political%20orientation.PDF

Source 3:

http://en.wikipedia.org...
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Naysayer
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8/14/2013 7:03:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 3:34:38 AM, Homosapien wrote:
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

Hello Iannan13,

Well raised topic sir,

I wold submit that you are not alone in this line of thinking, particularly with any conservative values, this is because of conservatisms principle origins in believe that people are fundamentally selfish, ergo the state should encourage a cohesive society by playing on peoples desire to gain over thier peers (source1)

This origin differs radically from anything we might call left-wing or socialist which essentially takes the opposite stance on the matter and is for some a much more attractive proposition on principle.

This is important to remember because these core tenenats affect policy on the left and right. If you were to place your flag in a camp, then to begin with I really would recommend looking into the core principles of conservativism and other ideologies as this will at least allow you to make a decision upon core ideology instead of specific issues, I have included some things that may be of interest in source 2 sir.

As for your specific situation, you should not feel 'forced' into any stance on a political issue (one might argue this is exactly what as a military man you are fighting against) and instead feel compelled because upon the evidence and own moral/ethical standards you have come to a decision of your own accord.

I am sorry I cannot be of more help on specific areas such as abortion sir, but keeping within good taste, I would not want to bombard anyone with my own arguments when they are still clearly weighing up a great deal in thier own minds.

Finally sir, you may well be interested in the direct swiss democracy outlined in source 3, specifically this nation focuses on the use of refurendums on specific issues, while this raises it's own debate, it would at least allow you to support the right on some issues and the left on others, although I do not know of a similar party in the United States, there are a few direct democracy parties in Australia and the United Kingdom I know of.

Kindest Regards,
Ben

Source 1:
Quotes from Edmund Burke -

"All government, indeed every human benefit and enjoyment, every virtue, and every prudent act, is founded on compromise and barter."

"People crushed by laws, have no hope but to evade power. If the laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to the law; and those who have most to hope and nothing to lose will always be dangerous."

"Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government."

Source 2:

http://www.livescience.com...

http://www.psych.nyu.edu...(2007)%20Psychological%20needs%20and%20values%20underlying%20left-right%20political%20orientation.PDF

Source 3:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

So what you're saying is that anyone that is allowed to choose without interruption would automatically choose left wing politics? Wow. I've never heard that before.

That's a ridiculous stance and doesn't hold up (atleast in the U.S.) inspection. The left is generally much more harsh in their retribution on those that dare to break ranks as demonstrated by Dan Savage calling gays faggot for voting Republican or calling blacks Uncle Tom for running as Republican. Or constantly mocking the Tea Party and others as less intelligient or deranged.

The left as a political force generally claims to be morally superior atleast in this country. They are arrogant and condescending and generally display the same attitude you just did that if allowed to think for yourself, you'd come to the same conclusions they do because they're obviously right.

Left wing politics is mob mentality. That's what Democracy is. We're right because there are more of us. And the social movement's general appeal to anarchists and social activism endorses intimidation.
lannan13
Posts: 23,107
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8/14/2013 7:10:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 2:38:01 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
It also explains why you are illiterate.

I know how to read, I just suck at spelling.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,107
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8/14/2013 7:12:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 5:52:11 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

? How many of these were your choices? Granted, you might be pressured into a religion by your parents/culture, but no one can tell you what to actually believe. I'm quite certain you took your own oaths in the military. And the flat tax decision was also yours. There are Democrats that are openly against abortion. (Shh, don't tell. That's a big, dirty secret to the DNC.) Clearly you've made up your own mind about global warming.

I guess I'm just not sure where you are going with this. Where are you leaning now?

I'm more of a Tea Party Conservative, because, in my opinion, the Republican Party is becoming to moderate.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Homosapien
Posts: 114
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8/14/2013 7:17:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 7:03:28 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/14/2013 3:34:38 AM, Homosapien wrote:
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

Hello Iannan13,

Well raised topic sir,

I wold submit that you are not alone in this line of thinking, particularly with any conservative values, this is because of conservatisms principle origins in believe that people are fundamentally selfish, ergo the state should encourage a cohesive society by playing on peoples desire to gain over thier peers (source1)

This origin differs radically from anything we might call left-wing or socialist which essentially takes the opposite stance on the matter and is for some a much more attractive proposition on principle.

This is important to remember because these core tenenats affect policy on the left and right. If you were to place your flag in a camp, then to begin with I really would recommend looking into the core principles of conservativism and other ideologies as this will at least allow you to make a decision upon core ideology instead of specific issues, I have included some things that may be of interest in source 2 sir.

As for your specific situation, you should not feel 'forced' into any stance on a political issue (one might argue this is exactly what as a military man you are fighting against) and instead feel compelled because upon the evidence and own moral/ethical standards you have come to a decision of your own accord.

I am sorry I cannot be of more help on specific areas such as abortion sir, but keeping within good taste, I would not want to bombard anyone with my own arguments when they are still clearly weighing up a great deal in thier own minds.

Finally sir, you may well be interested in the direct swiss democracy outlined in source 3, specifically this nation focuses on the use of refurendums on specific issues, while this raises it's own debate, it would at least allow you to support the right on some issues and the left on others, although I do not know of a similar party in the United States, there are a few direct democracy parties in Australia and the United Kingdom I know of.

Kindest Regards,
Ben

Source 1:
Quotes from Edmund Burke -

"All government, indeed every human benefit and enjoyment, every virtue, and every prudent act, is founded on compromise and barter."

"People crushed by laws, have no hope but to evade power. If the laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to the law; and those who have most to hope and nothing to lose will always be dangerous."

"Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government."

Source 2:

http://www.livescience.com...

http://www.psych.nyu.edu...(2007)%20Psychological%20needs%20and%20values%20underlying%20left-right%20political%20orientation.PDF

Source 3:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

So what you're saying is that anyone that is allowed to choose without interruption would automatically choose left wing politics? Wow. I've never heard that before.

That's a ridiculous stance and doesn't hold up (atleast in the U.S.) inspection. The left is generally much more harsh in their retribution on those that dare to break ranks as demonstrated by Dan Savage calling gays faggot for voting Republican or calling blacks Uncle Tom for running as Republican. Or constantly mocking the Tea Party and others as less intelligient or deranged.

The left as a political force generally claims to be morally superior atleast in this country. They are arrogant and condescending and generally display the same attitude you just did that if allowed to think for yourself, you'd come to the same conclusions they do because they're obviously right.

Left wing politics is mob mentality. That's what Democracy is. We're right because there are more of us. And the social movement's general appeal to anarchists and social activism endorses intimidation.

Sir,

Thank you for your response,

Apologies if my position was not displayed well, I was simply outlining the origins of right and left wing politics, my post was not aimed at supporting either position and I would hope it came accross more neutral than anything else.

As for your current view on the left of US politics I would not comment, my post was aimed at being informative. I do feel you have straw manned me slightly here, by creating a position that I do not hold and then attacking that.

Again, my post outlined, with evidence, some of the orgins and core tenants of conservative policy, if I displayed any personal opinion on US politics it was accidental.

Kindest Regards,
Ben
royalpaladin describing me in all my majestic glory -

"He has a cabal of votebombers behind him."
"I'll be informing airmax about you."
"It reveals that you want to look like you are intelligent, but actually are not."
"Stupid because you didn't warrant or impact your moronic arguments. That's all you will ever be good for."
"You're making stupid assumptions, as usual. "
"You really are an arrogant buffoon, aren't you?"
"You're just coming off as extremely arrogant and condescending."
royalpaladin
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8/14/2013 7:32:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You should have refused to write the essay. You do not need the church; they need you for the own power, while you need them for nothing. If you had refused, they would have chased after you.
royalpaladin
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8/14/2013 7:34:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 7:32:06 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
You should have refused to write the essay. You do not need the church; they need you for the own power, while you need them for nothing. If you had refused, they would have chased after you.

First they would have threatened you with hell. You should have responded loudly to this with "No, I will not give you my money. Go away." After that, they would have started groveling. :)
Naysayer
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8/14/2013 9:38:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 7:17:47 AM, Homosapien wrote:
At 8/14/2013 7:03:28 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/14/2013 3:34:38 AM, Homosapien wrote:
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

Hello Iannan13,

Well raised topic sir,

I wold submit that you are not alone in this line of thinking, particularly with any conservative values, this is because of conservatisms principle origins in believe that people are fundamentally selfish, ergo the state should encourage a cohesive society by playing on peoples desire to gain over thier peers (source1)

This origin differs radically from anything we might call left-wing or socialist which essentially takes the opposite stance on the matter and is for some a much more attractive proposition on principle.

This is important to remember because these core tenenats affect policy on the left and right. If you were to place your flag in a camp, then to begin with I really would recommend looking into the core principles of conservativism and other ideologies as this will at least allow you to make a decision upon core ideology instead of specific issues, I have included some things that may be of interest in source 2 sir.

As for your specific situation, you should not feel 'forced' into any stance on a political issue (one might argue this is exactly what as a military man you are fighting against) and instead feel compelled because upon the evidence and own moral/ethical standards you have come to a decision of your own accord.

I am sorry I cannot be of more help on specific areas such as abortion sir, but keeping within good taste, I would not want to bombard anyone with my own arguments when they are still clearly weighing up a great deal in thier own minds.

Finally sir, you may well be interested in the direct swiss democracy outlined in source 3, specifically this nation focuses on the use of refurendums on specific issues, while this raises it's own debate, it would at least allow you to support the right on some issues and the left on others, although I do not know of a similar party in the United States, there are a few direct democracy parties in Australia and the United Kingdom I know of.

Kindest Regards,
Ben

Source 1:
Quotes from Edmund Burke -

"All government, indeed every human benefit and enjoyment, every virtue, and every prudent act, is founded on compromise and barter."

"People crushed by laws, have no hope but to evade power. If the laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to the law; and those who have most to hope and nothing to lose will always be dangerous."

"Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government."

Source 2:

http://www.livescience.com...

http://www.psych.nyu.edu...(2007)%20Psychological%20needs%20and%20values%20underlying%20left-right%20political%20orientation.PDF

Source 3:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

So what you're saying is that anyone that is allowed to choose without interruption would automatically choose left wing politics? Wow. I've never heard that before.

That's a ridiculous stance and doesn't hold up (atleast in the U.S.) inspection. The left is generally much more harsh in their retribution on those that dare to break ranks as demonstrated by Dan Savage calling gays faggot for voting Republican or calling blacks Uncle Tom for running as Republican. Or constantly mocking the Tea Party and others as less intelligient or deranged.

The left as a political force generally claims to be morally superior atleast in this country. They are arrogant and condescending and generally display the same attitude you just did that if allowed to think for yourself, you'd come to the same conclusions they do because they're obviously right.

Left wing politics is mob mentality. That's what Democracy is. We're right because there are more of us. And the social movement's general appeal to anarchists and social activism endorses intimidation.

Sir,

Thank you for your response,

Apologies if my position was not displayed well, I was simply outlining the origins of right and left wing politics, my post was not aimed at supporting either position and I would hope it came accross more neutral than anything else.

As for your current view on the left of US politics I would not comment, my post was aimed at being informative. I do feel you have straw manned me slightly here, by creating a position that I do not hold and then attacking that.

Again, my post outlined, with evidence, some of the orgins and core tenants of conservative policy, if I displayed any personal opinion on US politics it was accidental.

Kindest Regards,
Ben

Your statement wasn't about origins. It implies that current politics being influenced by origins makes left wing politics more open and inclusive and the result of deliberate thought compared to the forced indoctrination of right wing politics. I wasn't the one building a straw man.

Both sides, regardless of origin, are dogmatic in their beliefs. The difference appears to me that conservatives are attracted to dogmatic principles and liberals are attracted to dogmatic ideals.
Homosapien
Posts: 114
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8/14/2013 9:52:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 9:38:22 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/14/2013 7:17:47 AM, Homosapien wrote:
At 8/14/2013 7:03:28 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/14/2013 3:34:38 AM, Homosapien wrote:
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

Hello Iannan13,

Well raised topic sir,

I wold submit that you are not alone in this line of thinking, particularly with any conservative values, this is because of conservatisms principle origins in believe that people are fundamentally selfish, ergo the state should encourage a cohesive society by playing on peoples desire to gain over thier peers (source1)

This origin differs radically from anything we might call left-wing or socialist which essentially takes the opposite stance on the matter and is for some a much more attractive proposition on principle.

This is important to remember because these core tenenats affect policy on the left and right. If you were to place your flag in a camp, then to begin with I really would recommend looking into the core principles of conservativism and other ideologies as this will at least allow you to make a decision upon core ideology instead of specific issues, I have included some things that may be of interest in source 2 sir.

As for your specific situation, you should not feel 'forced' into any stance on a political issue (one might argue this is exactly what as a military man you are fighting against) and instead feel compelled because upon the evidence and own moral/ethical standards you have come to a decision of your own accord.

I am sorry I cannot be of more help on specific areas such as abortion sir, but keeping within good taste, I would not want to bombard anyone with my own arguments when they are still clearly weighing up a great deal in thier own minds.

Finally sir, you may well be interested in the direct swiss democracy outlined in source 3, specifically this nation focuses on the use of refurendums on specific issues, while this raises it's own debate, it would at least allow you to support the right on some issues and the left on others, although I do not know of a similar party in the United States, there are a few direct democracy parties in Australia and the United Kingdom I know of.

Kindest Regards,
Ben

Source 1:
Quotes from Edmund Burke -

"All government, indeed every human benefit and enjoyment, every virtue, and every prudent act, is founded on compromise and barter."

"People crushed by laws, have no hope but to evade power. If the laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to the law; and those who have most to hope and nothing to lose will always be dangerous."

"Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government."

Source 2:

http://www.livescience.com...

http://www.psych.nyu.edu...(2007)%20Psychological%20needs%20and%20values%20underlying%20left-right%20political%20orientation.PDF

Source 3:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

So what you're saying is that anyone that is allowed to choose without interruption would automatically choose left wing politics? Wow. I've never heard that before.

That's a ridiculous stance and doesn't hold up (atleast in the U.S.) inspection. The left is generally much more harsh in their retribution on those that dare to break ranks as demonstrated by Dan Savage calling gays faggot for voting Republican or calling blacks Uncle Tom for running as Republican. Or constantly mocking the Tea Party and others as less intelligient or deranged.

The left as a political force generally claims to be morally superior atleast in this country. They are arrogant and condescending and generally display the same attitude you just did that if allowed to think for yourself, you'd come to the same conclusions they do because they're obviously right.

Left wing politics is mob mentality. That's what Democracy is. We're right because there are more of us. And the social movement's general appeal to anarchists and social activism endorses intimidation.

Sir,

Thank you for your response,

Apologies if my position was not displayed well, I was simply outlining the origins of right and left wing politics, my post was not aimed at supporting either position and I would hope it came accross more neutral than anything else.

As for your current view on the left of US politics I would not comment, my post was aimed at being informative. I do feel you have straw manned me slightly here, by creating a position that I do not hold and then attacking that.

Again, my post outlined, with evidence, some of the orgins and core tenants of conservative policy, if I displayed any personal opinion on US politics it was accidental.

Kindest Regards,
Ben

Your statement wasn't about origins. It implies that current politics being influenced by origins makes left wing politics more open and inclusive and the result of deliberate thought compared to the forced indoctrination of right wing politics. I wasn't the one building a straw man.

Both sides, regardless of origin, are dogmatic in their beliefs. The difference appears to me that conservatives are attracted to dogmatic principles and liberals are attracted to dogmatic ideals.

Sir,

I submit to the readers, that if I did not simply suggest to the chap who originally posted that he might find some more answers by looking into the origins of the ideology of the left and right, I neither condone nor criticize either in my post, if that's not a loud enough throat clearing I don't know what is.

Where exactly have I stated that either one is inclusive or exclusive? Please see my original post again in source 1 and wouldn't dare to make such a statement as you suggest without further evidence, once again apologies of my post was not clear.

That difference may well appear to you, I have no evidence at hand to suggest either way. I feel that you are confroting a position that I neither agree nor disgree with.

Kind Regards,
Ben

Source 1 - Post #8
This origin differs radically from anything we might call left-wing or socialist which essentially takes the opposite stance on the matter and is for some a much more attractive proposition on principle.
royalpaladin describing me in all my majestic glory -

"He has a cabal of votebombers behind him."
"I'll be informing airmax about you."
"It reveals that you want to look like you are intelligent, but actually are not."
"Stupid because you didn't warrant or impact your moronic arguments. That's all you will ever be good for."
"You're making stupid assumptions, as usual. "
"You really are an arrogant buffoon, aren't you?"
"You're just coming off as extremely arrogant and condescending."
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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8/14/2013 10:18:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 3:34:38 AM, Homosapien wrote:
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

Hello Iannan13,

Well raised topic sir,

I wold submit that you are not alone in this line of thinking, particularly with any conservative values, this is because of conservatisms principle origins in believe that people are fundamentally selfish, ergo the state should encourage a cohesive society by playing on peoples desire to gain over thier peers (source1)

This origin differs radically from anything we might call left-wing or socialist which essentially takes the opposite stance on the matter and is for some a much more attractive proposition on principle.

This is important to remember because these core tenenats affect policy on the left and right. If you were to place your flag in a camp, then to begin with I really would recommend looking into the core principles of conservativism and other ideologies as this will at least allow you to make a decision upon core ideology instead of specific issues, I have included some things that may be of interest in source 2 sir.

As for your specific situation, you should not feel 'forced' into any stance on a political issue (one might argue this is exactly what as a military man you are fighting against) and instead feel compelled because upon the evidence and own moral/ethical standards you have come to a decision of your own accord.

I am sorry I cannot be of more help on specific areas such as abortion sir, but keeping within good taste, I would not want to bombard anyone with my own arguments when they are still clearly weighing up a great deal in thier own minds.

Finally sir, you may well be interested in the direct swiss democracy outlined in source 3, specifically this nation focuses on the use of refurendums on specific issues, while this raises it's own debate, it would at least allow you to support the right on some issues and the left on others, although I do not know of a similar party in the United States, there are a few direct democracy parties in Australia and the United Kingdom I know of.

Kindest Regards,
Ben

Source 1:
Quotes from Edmund Burke -

"All government, indeed every human benefit and enjoyment, every virtue, and every prudent act, is founded on compromise and barter."

"People crushed by laws, have no hope but to evade power. If the laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to the law; and those who have most to hope and nothing to lose will always be dangerous."

"Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government."

Source 2:

http://www.livescience.com...

http://www.psych.nyu.edu...(2007)%20Psychological%20needs%20and%20values%20underlying%20left-right%20political%20orientation.PDF

Source 3:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Fair enough.

The study you presented posed exactly that point in its definition of left wing and right wing.

The notion that people are more open because they associate with left wing politcs is false in U.S. politics. Ideology is the entire practice in this country and indoctrination the method via schools and various media.

You agree with the OP that especially the conservative line of thinking is particularly inclined to force followers, which is what set me off in the first place. That's ridiculous propaganda and something I can't stand by and let lie. Liberal politcs in no way implies liberal thinking, which I heartily endorse. If you disagree with me, fine. Give me valid cause and allow me my view. I'll still think you're wrong, but I can respect it.
Homosapien
Posts: 114
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8/14/2013 10:29:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 10:18:11 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/14/2013 3:34:38 AM, Homosapien wrote:
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

Hello Iannan13,

Well raised topic sir,

I wold submit that you are not alone in this line of thinking, particularly with any conservative values, this is because of conservatisms principle origins in believe that people are fundamentally selfish, ergo the state should encourage a cohesive society by playing on peoples desire to gain over thier peers (source1)

This origin differs radically from anything we might call left-wing or socialist which essentially takes the opposite stance on the matter and is for some a much more attractive proposition on principle.

This is important to remember because these core tenenats affect policy on the left and right. If you were to place your flag in a camp, then to begin with I really would recommend looking into the core principles of conservativism and other ideologies as this will at least allow you to make a decision upon core ideology instead of specific issues, I have included some things that may be of interest in source 2 sir.

As for your specific situation, you should not feel 'forced' into any stance on a political issue (one might argue this is exactly what as a military man you are fighting against) and instead feel compelled because upon the evidence and own moral/ethical standards you have come to a decision of your own accord.

I am sorry I cannot be of more help on specific areas such as abortion sir, but keeping within good taste, I would not want to bombard anyone with my own arguments when they are still clearly weighing up a great deal in thier own minds.

Finally sir, you may well be interested in the direct swiss democracy outlined in source 3, specifically this nation focuses on the use of refurendums on specific issues, while this raises it's own debate, it would at least allow you to support the right on some issues and the left on others, although I do not know of a similar party in the United States, there are a few direct democracy parties in Australia and the United Kingdom I know of.

Kindest Regards,
Ben

Source 1:
Quotes from Edmund Burke -

"All government, indeed every human benefit and enjoyment, every virtue, and every prudent act, is founded on compromise and barter."

"People crushed by laws, have no hope but to evade power. If the laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to the law; and those who have most to hope and nothing to lose will always be dangerous."

"Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government."

Source 2:

http://www.livescience.com...

http://www.psych.nyu.edu...(2007)%20Psychological%20needs%20and%20values%20underlying%20left-right%20political%20orientation.PDF

Source 3:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Fair enough.

The study you presented posed exactly that point in its definition of left wing and right wing.

The notion that people are more open because they associate with left wing politcs is false in U.S. politics. Ideology is the entire practice in this country and indoctrination the method via schools and various media.

You agree with the OP that especially the conservative line of thinking is particularly inclined to force followers, which is what set me off in the first place. That's ridiculous propaganda and something I can't stand by and let lie. Liberal politcs in no way implies liberal thinking, which I heartily endorse. If you disagree with me, fine. Give me valid cause and allow me my view. I'll still think you're wrong, but I can respect it.

Sir,

Perhapes some crossed wires, the evidence I presented simply highlighted the thinking in the 16th 17th and 18th century that lead to the rise of conservatism, I even included quotes from one of conservatisms greatest thinkers, please bear in mind that conservatism goes way beyond the history of your own fine nation.

I stated, clearly, unequivocably, that no one should be forced into taking a stance on any political issue, that is no attack on conservatism, liberalism, left wing, right wing, no one should be forced either way, that was all.

I stated he was not the only one in his position, that again is no great revelation, many people vote a certain way because they feel it is the lesser of the availiable evils, this links in to the psychology of voting. Again not an attack on the right or the left.

You shouldn't stand by and let propoganda decide the outcome of political issues, agreed, just as much as no one should be forced to vote either way, and instead should make the judgments on thier own critical faculties.

If my post was perceived as an attack on your political stance it certainly was not, you have been ready to have an argument and clearly saw my post as what you wished to see it, which it was not, as an attack on American conservatism, which it was not.

Best of Regards,
Ben
royalpaladin describing me in all my majestic glory -

"He has a cabal of votebombers behind him."
"I'll be informing airmax about you."
"It reveals that you want to look like you are intelligent, but actually are not."
"Stupid because you didn't warrant or impact your moronic arguments. That's all you will ever be good for."
"You're making stupid assumptions, as usual. "
"You really are an arrogant buffoon, aren't you?"
"You're just coming off as extremely arrogant and condescending."
NightofTheLivingCats
Posts: 2,294
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8/14/2013 10:54:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 5:22:41 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I was doing some thinking today on why I'm a Republican and I found out that it started back in 8th grade when I was going to be confirmed in my church, but inorder to be confrimed I had to write a 10 page anti-abortion essay. This started it off. On Global Warming my grandma said it was against the Bible (which I knows is rediculously false) but if you remember correctly when I first joined I believed in GW, but now I don't because of the Global Cooling theory and how many famous scientists are renounce the theory of GW. I've always been pro military and that's how I got to be pro security to almost any level. Flatt tax because of the rich would more likely take risks and start a buisness. To come full circle when most people ask what is my strongest point in being a Republican and I tell them that it's that I'm anti-abortion. So does this mean I was forced to be a Republican?

TEN PAGES?!. If I was asked to write something that was 10 pages long to be forced into something that doesn't benefit me, I would give the fvcker 1,000 paper cuts.
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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8/14/2013 6:19:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The first question you need to ask yourself is why the f*ck would you want to join a denomination of a religion or a certain church that forces you to take certain political positions?
turn down for h'what
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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8/14/2013 7:20:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 6:19:30 PM, Aaronroy wrote:
The first question you need to ask yourself is why the f*ck would you want to join a denomination of a religion or a certain church that forces you to take certain political positions?

Probably for the free coffee...
Tsar of DDO
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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8/19/2013 5:25:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You weren't even forced to write the essay; you were just told that it had to be done in order for you to be confirmed and go to heaven instead of hell. Later, a commercial told you you had to join the Marines in order to be proud, and part of the deal was to take an oath to put the "security" of the country your mother's vagina happened to be in when you were born above all else. Upon returning home, you watched a lot of FOX News, including scientists or references to scientists, who probably weren't even climatologists, who told you or seemed to tell you that global warming either doesn't exist or is cancelled out perfectly by global cooling; and, more often, pundits who told you only the income of the rich finds its way to investment. And by this point you were just in the habit of believing what you were told.