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Define it: Assault Rifle

devinni01841
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8/23/2013 11:13:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So many questions regarding the legality/need of an "assault rifle"

What does that term mean to you? I'm not interested in your stance on the issue, that's another thread entirely. I just want to know what you think about when the term assault rifle is used.
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imabench
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8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 11:13:29 PM, devinni01841 wrote:
So many questions regarding the legality/need of an "assault rifle"

What does that term mean to you? I'm not interested in your stance on the issue, that's another thread entirely. I just want to know what you think about when the term assault rifle is used.

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.
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devinni01841
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8/24/2013 12:56:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM, imabench wrote:

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

semi-automatic in reference to guns simply means your weapon uses the gas expansion from firing the round to move the bolt and load the next round after extracting the spent case.

I like the part that is underlined and in bold, that is very reasonable. Thing is you have to be military and get issued one, or a gun dealer with all kinds of crazy permits to legally have any full auto (or even burst, I believe) firing weapon.
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bladerunner060
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8/24/2013 1:33:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 12:56:23 AM, devinni01841 wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM, imabench wrote:

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

semi-automatic in reference to guns simply means your weapon uses the gas expansion from firing the round to move the bolt and load the next round after extracting the spent case.

I like the part that is underlined and in bold, that is very reasonable. Thing is you have to be military and get issued one, or a gun dealer with all kinds of crazy permits to legally have any full auto (or even burst, I believe) firing weapon.

Most of the debate is about assault WEAPONS, as opposed to rifles, which have a technical definition bench covered mostly (obviously they have to e rifles and he left that out for obviousness).

Assault WEAPONS are just "scary looking guns". They have a meaningless statutory definition, and their very existence as a term muddy the waters.

AFAIK, anyway.
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drhead
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8/24/2013 1:58:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 1:33:50 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:56:23 AM, devinni01841 wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM, imabench wrote:

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

semi-automatic in reference to guns simply means your weapon uses the gas expansion from firing the round to move the bolt and load the next round after extracting the spent case.

I like the part that is underlined and in bold, that is very reasonable. Thing is you have to be military and get issued one, or a gun dealer with all kinds of crazy permits to legally have any full auto (or even burst, I believe) firing weapon.


Most of the debate is about assault WEAPONS, as opposed to rifles, which have a technical definition bench covered mostly (obviously they have to e rifles and he left that out for obviousness).

Assault WEAPONS are just "scary looking guns". They have a meaningless statutory definition, and their very existence as a term muddy the waters.

AFAIK, anyway.

There actually is a practical purpose to regulating these 'scary-looking guns'. Think about it: scarier looking guns are useful for the fear factor alone. If I decided to rob a bank, I'd probably get better results by using an AR-15 than I would with a Ruger Mini-14, despite the guns being identical in functionality. Why? Because it looks like a modern assault rifle, even though it isn't. That's enough to scare people into compliance, and it is a unique attribute of assault weapons.

But yes, I do agree that defining an assault weapon is like defining the inside of a Mobius strip.
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Wallstreetatheist
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8/24/2013 2:06:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Assault Rifle: n. Any type of firearm that is loud and scary.

I win, because I'm using government definitions.
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YYW
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8/24/2013 11:37:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 11:13:29 PM, devinni01841 wrote:
So many questions regarding the legality/need of an "assault rifle"

What does that term mean to you? I'm not interested in your stance on the issue, that's another thread entirely. I just want to know what you think about when the term assault rifle is used.

Rifle which has the capacity to fire automatically, or in bursts (of two or more rounds when trigger is pulled).
ClassicRobert
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8/24/2013 11:40:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 2:06:01 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Assault Rifle: n. Any type of firearm that is loud and scary.

I win, because I'm using government definitions.
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8/24/2013 11:41:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 2:06:01 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Assault Rifle: n. Any type of firearm that is loud and scary.

I win, because I'm using government definitions.

You forgot any gun used in first person shooter video games!
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YYW
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8/24/2013 11:52:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
So is it fair to say that many people here are afraid that regulating assault rifles, as I defined assault rifles (rifles which have the capacity to fire automatically or in bursts of two or more rounds) will lead to regulations on guns which are not assault rifles?
imabench
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8/24/2013 12:25:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 11:52:23 AM, YYW wrote:
So is it fair to say that many people here are afraid that regulating assault rifles, as I defined assault rifles (rifles which have the capacity to fire automatically or in bursts of two or more rounds) will lead to regulations on guns which are not assault rifles?

Probably considering there are already proposed restrictions on guns that arent assault rifles, such as a proposed cap limit for how many bullets a magazine can hold....
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ConservativeAmerican
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8/24/2013 12:40:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM, imabench wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:13:29 PM, devinni01841 wrote:
So many questions regarding the legality/need of an "assault rifle"

What does that term mean to you? I'm not interested in your stance on the issue, that's another thread entirely. I just want to know what you think about when the term assault rifle is used.

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

Contradiction. Semi-Auto is based on how many times you can pull the trigger.

Also, so a pistol, like a glock or a beretta would be an assault rifle then?

You can only get automatic weapons with a special license and auto guns are heavily regulated, you can only buy so much ammo for auto guns per month.

So none of your points are sensible.

liberals who want to ban guns and then know nothing about them.
YYW
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8/24/2013 12:42:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 12:25:04 PM, imabench wrote:
At 8/24/2013 11:52:23 AM, YYW wrote:
So is it fair to say that many people here are afraid that regulating assault rifles, as I defined assault rifles (rifles which have the capacity to fire automatically or in bursts of two or more rounds) will lead to regulations on guns which are not assault rifles?

Probably considering there are already proposed restrictions on guns that arent assault rifles, such as a proposed cap limit for how many bullets a magazine can hold....

I'll agree that magazine limits are stupid, but I won't agree that all gun control legislation leads to more gun control legislation.
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8/24/2013 12:43:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 1:58:56 AM, drhead wrote:
At 8/24/2013 1:33:50 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:56:23 AM, devinni01841 wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM, imabench wrote:

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

semi-automatic in reference to guns simply means your weapon uses the gas expansion from firing the round to move the bolt and load the next round after extracting the spent case.

I like the part that is underlined and in bold, that is very reasonable. Thing is you have to be military and get issued one, or a gun dealer with all kinds of crazy permits to legally have any full auto (or even burst, I believe) firing weapon.


Most of the debate is about assault WEAPONS, as opposed to rifles, which have a technical definition bench covered mostly (obviously they have to e rifles and he left that out for obviousness).

Assault WEAPONS are just "scary looking guns". They have a meaningless statutory definition, and their very existence as a term muddy the waters.

AFAIK, anyway.

There actually is a practical purpose to regulating these 'scary-looking guns'. Think about it: scarier looking guns are useful for the fear factor alone. If I decided to rob a bank, I'd probably get better results by using an AR-15 than I would with a Ruger Mini-14, despite the guns being identical in functionality. Why? Because it looks like a modern assault rifle, even though it isn't. That's enough to scare people into compliance, and it is a unique attribute of assault weapons.

But yes, I do agree that defining an assault weapon is like defining the inside of a Mobius strip.

There is a practical reason to have an assault rifle v. a regular rifle.

One is the pistol grip, far more comfortable. The main complaints are the grenade launcher compartment under the barrel (I agree that should be banned) and the bayonet fixation (shouldn't be banned).
ConservativeAmerican
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8/24/2013 12:48:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 12:42:12 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:25:04 PM, imabench wrote:
At 8/24/2013 11:52:23 AM, YYW wrote:
So is it fair to say that many people here are afraid that regulating assault rifles, as I defined assault rifles (rifles which have the capacity to fire automatically or in bursts of two or more rounds) will lead to regulations on guns which are not assault rifles?

Probably considering there are already proposed restrictions on guns that arent assault rifles, such as a proposed cap limit for how many bullets a magazine can hold....

I'll agree that magazine limits are stupid, but I won't agree that all gun control legislation leads to more gun control legislation.

Practically, full auto weapons should be heavily regulated, not banned. Full auto weapons are allowed in most states, they are just extremely heavily regulated and you need a special license from the ATF. Plus as I said, you can only buy so much ammo monthly. They are primarily for display.
Bullish
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8/24/2013 1:44:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I would define an "assault rifle" as a intermediate sized firearm capable of firing in full-auto or 3 round bursts, can significantly wound people and has a barrel length of about at least 40 cm. http://en.wikipedia.org...

As for the "assault weapon" that the government like to talk about, I think it's just a intermediate sized "scary looking gun" like others have said. This could range from SMGs with oversized buttstocks to semi-auto rifles with pistol grips to miniguns.
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DetectableNinja
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8/24/2013 2:18:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM, imabench wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:13:29 PM, devinni01841 wrote:
So many questions regarding the legality/need of an "assault rifle"

What does that term mean to you? I'm not interested in your stance on the issue, that's another thread entirely. I just want to know what you think about when the term assault rifle is used.

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

Semi auto MEANS it's limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.
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muzebreak
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8/24/2013 3:25:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
To those saying thins along the lines of 'assault weapon ban bans parts that look scary" I challenge you to provide one example of an attachment that is banned by the legislation, that has nothing but a cosmetic effect.
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8/24/2013 4:07:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM, imabench wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:13:29 PM, devinni01841 wrote:
So many questions regarding the legality/need of an "assault rifle"

What does that term mean to you? I'm not interested in your stance on the issue, that's another thread entirely. I just want to know what you think about when the term assault rifle is used.

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

contradiction
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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8/24/2013 4:13:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 12:56:23 AM, devinni01841 wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM, imabench wrote:

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

semi-automatic in reference to guns simply means your weapon uses the gas expansion from firing the round to move the bolt and load the next round after extracting the spent case.

I like the part that is underlined and in bold, that is very reasonable. Thing is you have to be military and get issued one, or a gun dealer with all kinds of crazy permits to legally have any full auto (or even burst, I believe) firing weapon.

The idea is great, but it is not practical. People who use guns for crimes can still get a hold of these weapons, so it just gives criminals an edge over law abiding citizens. Full auto is very useful in self defense, more so than assaults. The full autos can be used for suppression fire.

I would define an assault rife as any rifle designed for an offensive strike. I do not believe assault rifles should be banned, because prohibition does not work, nor does preventative laws.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
devinni01841
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8/24/2013 6:24:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 1:44:07 PM, Bullish wrote:
I would define an "assault rifle" as a intermediate sized firearm capable of firing in full-auto or 3 round bursts, can significantly wound people and has a barrel length of about at least 40 cm. http://en.wikipedia.org...

As for the "assault weapon" that the government like to talk about, I think it's just a intermediate sized "scary looking gun" like others have said. This could range from SMGs with oversized buttstocks to semi-auto rifles with pistol grips to miniguns.

any bullet is a significant wound....
and honestly guns are only scary to people who aren't familiar to them. Now if someone aimed one at me I would feel fear, but not of the weapon, but the person holding it.
a 40cm barrel is 15.75 inches.... anything much shorter than that and you have to buy a special $200 tax stamp to use it on a rifle without a compensator. Logically, shorter barrels are more "tactical" (provided you are okay with the extra recoil) and are easier to conceal on the move. A longer barrel only decreases maneuverability.
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devinni01841
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8/24/2013 6:29:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 4:13:51 PM, DanT wrote:
The idea is great, but it is not practical. People who use guns for crimes can still get a hold of these weapons, so it just gives criminals an edge over law abiding citizens. Full auto is very useful in self defense, more so than assaults. The full autos can be used for suppression fire.

I would define an assault rife as any rifle designed for an offensive strike. I do not believe assault rifles should be banned, because prohibition does not work, nor does preventative laws.

THANK YOU!
Despite the fact that I wasn't looking for real stances on the issue, I love the way you look at it. I get the feeling you may not be a fan of guns yourself, but you understand them.
Your definition is FLAWLESS. I would like to put in here that I do not own any assault rifles. All of mine are fun rifles and defense rifles.
There is nothing more bad-@ss than being yourself.

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Member of the Texas Army National Guard since 20111212

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ConservativeAmerican
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8/24/2013 6:43:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 2:18:49 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM, imabench wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:13:29 PM, devinni01841 wrote:
So many questions regarding the legality/need of an "assault rifle"

What does that term mean to you? I'm not interested in your stance on the issue, that's another thread entirely. I just want to know what you think about when the term assault rifle is used.

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

Semi auto MEANS it's limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

No it doesn't, real semi auto guns entail being able to pull the trigger as fast as you can until the clip runs out.
ConservativeAmerican
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8/24/2013 6:47:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, magazine capacity bans are both idiotic and impractical. If you ban 50 capacity magazines I can just duct tape two 25's together and flip the clips when I'm finished with the 1st. Takes a second and a half tops.
Bullish
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8/24/2013 7:59:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 6:47:54 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Also, magazine capacity bans are both idiotic and impractical. If you ban 50 capacity magazines I can just duct tape two 25's together and flip the clips when I'm finished with the 1st. Takes a second and a half tops.

Well a second and a half is a lot, considering a human can disarm the shooter in less than 1 second. However, I do believe that restricting magazine capacity is idiotic, since magazines can be manufactured (with the new 3D printers and all) under the law very easily.
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DanT
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8/24/2013 8:18:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Simple logic can refute the claim that fully automatic weapons are only useful as assault weapons. They are more useful in defensive circumstances. When conducting an assault you would more likely use semi-automatics, because you would require better accuracy and control. The reason most assault rifles have an automatic setting, is so soldiers can give cover fire to their teammates, when they are moving into position or retreating. Older assault rifles, such as WWII rifles, would probably only be semi-automatic. Perfect example would be the M1 Garand, which is only semi-auto. In WWI they used bolt actions for assaults, like the 1903 Springfield.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DetectableNinja
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8/24/2013 8:20:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 6:43:47 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 8/24/2013 2:18:49 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:31:10 PM, imabench wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:13:29 PM, devinni01841 wrote:
So many questions regarding the legality/need of an "assault rifle"

What does that term mean to you? I'm not interested in your stance on the issue, that's another thread entirely. I just want to know what you think about when the term assault rifle is used.

To me an assault rifle is anything that can fire at an automatic or semi-automatic pace, ie anything whose fire isnt limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

Semi auto MEANS it's limited to how many times you can pull the trigger.

No it doesn't, real semi auto guns entail being able to pull the trigger as fast as you can until the clip runs out.

That's what I mean. The rate of fire is still limited by how fast you pull the trigger.
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devinni01841
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8/24/2013 10:45:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 8:18:48 PM, DanT wrote:
Simple logic can refute the claim that fully automatic weapons are only useful as assault weapons. They are more useful in defensive circumstances. When conducting an assault you would more likely use semi-automatics, because you would require better accuracy and control. The reason most assault rifles have an automatic setting, is so soldiers can give cover fire to their teammates, when they are moving into position or retreating. Older assault rifles, such as WWII rifles, would probably only be semi-automatic. Perfect example would be the M1 Garand, which is only semi-auto. In WWI they used bolt actions for assaults, like the 1903 Springfield.

This is why a SAW or other full auto is used in a turret of a HMMWV or high in a FOB entry, and any buildings that need cleared are done with M16 or M4

Also, I love the M1 Garand.
There is nothing more bad-@ss than being yourself.

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Member of the Texas Army National Guard since 20111212

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DanT
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8/24/2013 11:25:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 10:45:48 PM, devinni01841 wrote:
At 8/24/2013 8:18:48 PM, DanT wrote:
Simple logic can refute the claim that fully automatic weapons are only useful as assault weapons. They are more useful in defensive circumstances. When conducting an assault you would more likely use semi-automatics, because you would require better accuracy and control. The reason most assault rifles have an automatic setting, is so soldiers can give cover fire to their teammates, when they are moving into position or retreating. Older assault rifles, such as WWII rifles, would probably only be semi-automatic. Perfect example would be the M1 Garand, which is only semi-auto. In WWI they used bolt actions for assaults, like the 1903 Springfield.

This is why a SAW
A squad automatic weapon is not a rifle, it is a machine gun. Big difference.

or other full auto is used in a turret of a HMMWV

Humvees are not designed for combat on the front lines. They are designed for transport.

or high in a FOB entry, and any buildings that need cleared are done with M16 or M4

The M4 is not full auto; I think you mean the M4A1, which replaces the 3 round burst of the M4 with a full auto option.

The M16 is semi-auto with a full auto option; the semi-auto is used for assaults, while the full auto is used for suppressive fire.


Also, I love the M1 Garand.

Good for you. That does not change the fact that it is not full auto.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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8/25/2013 12:01:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 11:25:40 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/24/2013 10:45:48 PM, devinni01841 wrote:
At 8/24/2013 8:18:48 PM, DanT wrote:
Simple logic can refute the claim that fully automatic weapons are only useful as assault weapons. They are more useful in defensive circumstances. When conducting an assault you would more likely use semi-automatics, because you would require better accuracy and control. The reason most assault rifles have an automatic setting, is so soldiers can give cover fire to their teammates, when they are moving into position or retreating. Older assault rifles, such as WWII rifles, would probably only be semi-automatic. Perfect example would be the M1 Garand, which is only semi-auto. In WWI they used bolt actions for assaults, like the 1903 Springfield.

This is why a SAW
A squad automatic weapon is not a rifle, it is a machine gun. Big difference.

or other full auto is used in a turret of a HMMWV

Humvees are not designed for combat on the front lines. They are designed for transport.

or high in a FOB entry, and any buildings that need cleared are done with M16 or M4

The M4 is not full auto; I think you mean the M4A1, which replaces the 3 round burst of the M4 with a full auto option.

The M16 is semi-auto with a full auto option; the semi-auto is used for assaults, while the full auto is used for suppressive fire.


Also, I love the M1 Garand.

Good for you. That does not change the fact that it is not full auto.

Also a Squad Automatic Weapon is used primarily for support, which is why it is also called a Support Automatic Weapon. They are light machine guns, not assault rifles, and it is not a specific gun. They can be made by modifying assault rifles, but they are machine guns not rifles.

Any gun that fires exclusively full auto is a support weapon, not an assault weapon. The soldiers with full autos are there to support the soldiers with the assault weapons.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle