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It is 9/11

Cowboy0108
Posts: 420
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9/11/2013 3:12:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This day marks the twelfth anniversary of one of the biggest terrorist attacks in U.S. history in which thousands of innocent Americans died because of the actions of Islamic extremists.
We Americans will never forget this day, and many of us did not even feel the pain of the loss of our friends and families. I pity those who did.
I was four when it happened and I remember my parents checking me out of preschool. It took me many years to understand the gravity of what actually happened to America that day and what it means for all of us.
Please, remember the families who lost their loved ones and remember the loved ones lost. Where were you when the lives of so many Americans changed and ended? Do you have a story about 9/11? Please tell it.
leojm
Posts: 1,825
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9/11/2013 3:14:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/11/2013 3:12:21 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
This day marks the twelfth anniversary of one of the biggest terrorist attacks in U.S. history in which thousands of innocent Americans died because of the actions of Islamic extremists.
We Americans will never forget this day, and many of us did not even feel the pain of the loss of our friends and families. I pity those who did.
I was four when it happened and I remember my parents checking me out of preschool. It took me many years to understand the gravity of what actually happened to America that day and what it means for all of us.
Please, remember the families who lost their loved ones and remember the loved ones lost. Where were you when the lives of so many Americans changed and ended? Do you have a story about 9/11? Please tell it.

Russia.
TeaPartyAtheist
Posts: 26
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9/11/2013 3:20:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It was the day before my first day of kindergarten. My mom had nothing to do with me, so she made me come with her to some beauty appointment (perhaps it was a nail salon). They had a TV in the waiting area, and I remember watching the coverage of what was happening, though I was too young to really understand the significance of it. After she was finished, she took me to my karate class (I only did karate for 2 weeks, but it happened to be right then). There, we continued to hear of the tragedies. My dad is a lawyer and was in court in Philadelphia for jury selection that day. Court was dismissed at about 10 AM for fear of an attack, so he came home. I remember him saying to me that "we are lucky to all be alive".
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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9/12/2013 10:29:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.cracked.com...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 11:30:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was in basic training when 9/11 occurred. Our barracks were fenced off and we were not visited by anyone in a position of authority for hours until a full-bird colonel visited us and informed us of what had happened.

What I think we need to remember more than anything else is that this was an exceptional attack. This SHOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED. That it did occur means that we need to hold anyone and everyone in a position of responsibility accountable. That means al Qaeda, and we have held them accountable. That means our intelligence community, and we have held them accountable.

That also means our commander-in-chief. It is ludicrous and bordering insanity to think that Bush did not drop the ball on this one. Regardless of whether or not the intelligence community could have emphasized it more, could have made the threat more evident than it was, the bottom line is that WE CAUGHT THE INTEL ON THIS, and YET IT STILL OCCURRED. This falls squarely on Bush. To turn him into a hero because of this national travesty is so misguided as to make me sick.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 11:34:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.nytimes.com...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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9/12/2013 12:02:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 11:30:08 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
I was in basic training when 9/11 occurred. Our barracks were fenced off and we were not visited by anyone in a position of authority for hours until a full-bird colonel visited us and informed us of what had happened.

What I think we need to remember more than anything else is that this was an exceptional attack. This SHOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED. That it did occur means that we need to hold anyone and everyone in a position of responsibility accountable. That means al Qaeda, and we have held them accountable. That means our intelligence community, and we have held them accountable.

That also means our commander-in-chief. It is ludicrous and bordering insanity to think that Bush did not drop the ball on this one. Regardless of whether or not the intelligence community could have emphasized it more, could have made the threat more evident than it was, the bottom line is that WE CAUGHT THE INTEL ON THIS, and YET IT STILL OCCURRED. This falls squarely on Bush. To turn him into a hero because of this national travesty is so misguided as to make me sick.

No, it falls on the organization, structure, and methodology of our intelligence agencies. How does this have ANYTHING to do with Bush himself? At all?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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9/12/2013 12:09:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:02:17 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 9/12/2013 11:30:08 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
I was in basic training when 9/11 occurred. Our barracks were fenced off and we were not visited by anyone in a position of authority for hours until a full-bird colonel visited us and informed us of what had happened.

What I think we need to remember more than anything else is that this was an exceptional attack. This SHOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED. That it did occur means that we need to hold anyone and everyone in a position of responsibility accountable. That means al Qaeda, and we have held them accountable. That means our intelligence community, and we have held them accountable.

That also means our commander-in-chief. It is ludicrous and bordering insanity to think that Bush did not drop the ball on this one. Regardless of whether or not the intelligence community could have emphasized it more, could have made the threat more evident than it was, the bottom line is that WE CAUGHT THE INTEL ON THIS, and YET IT STILL OCCURRED. This falls squarely on Bush. To turn him into a hero because of this national travesty is so misguided as to make me sick.

No, it falls on the organization, structure, and methodology of our intelligence agencies. How does this have ANYTHING to do with Bush himself? At all?

The article he linked explained it pretty well. To add to that though, he is the head of the executive branch, and the intelligence agencies fall under the executive branch. He was aware of the attacks (given the briefings), and it was his responsibility to sign off on action.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 12:11:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:02:17 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 9/12/2013 11:30:08 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
I was in basic training when 9/11 occurred. Our barracks were fenced off and we were not visited by anyone in a position of authority for hours until a full-bird colonel visited us and informed us of what had happened.

What I think we need to remember more than anything else is that this was an exceptional attack. This SHOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED. That it did occur means that we need to hold anyone and everyone in a position of responsibility accountable. That means al Qaeda, and we have held them accountable. That means our intelligence community, and we have held them accountable.

That also means our commander-in-chief. It is ludicrous and bordering insanity to think that Bush did not drop the ball on this one. Regardless of whether or not the intelligence community could have emphasized it more, could have made the threat more evident than it was, the bottom line is that WE CAUGHT THE INTEL ON THIS, and YET IT STILL OCCURRED. This falls squarely on Bush. To turn him into a hero because of this national travesty is so misguided as to make me sick.

No, it falls on the organization, structure, and methodology of our intelligence agencies. How does this have ANYTHING to do with Bush himself? At all?

Clearly, you do not understand the meaning of responsibility. Bush could have moved heaven and earth, and had it still occurred, he still would have been responsible. That he did next to nothing is insulting.

Even if the intelligence community said absolutely nothing about the possibility of the event, Bush would still be held responsible for it occurring. That's what it means to preside over the country. It is not fair, but life is not fair.

Regardless, he was informed. What he did with that intel is where the responsibility of the intelligence community ends and where the White House's culpability begins.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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9/12/2013 12:12:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:02:17 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

No, it falls on the organization, structure, and methodology of our intelligence agencies. How does this have ANYTHING to do with Bush himself? At all?

^ That.

If we had the intelligence of the plot and the intelligence community dropped the ball on informing the right people and trying to stop the plot, then the entire blame falls squarely on their shoulder's not Bush's....... The higher up the chain of command you go, the less they know of the events and the details of the plot. The US is structured in a way so that high ranking figures dont have to make all these decisions about what do to and who to go after, other agencies exist to handle that for them.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 12:20:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A clandestine source said in 1998 that a bin Laden cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks.

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ---- service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Sheikh" Omar Abdel Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full-field investigations throughout the U.S. that it considers bin Laden-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group or bin Laden supporters was in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives.


http://www.cnn.com...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 12:21:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:12:08 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:02:17 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

No, it falls on the organization, structure, and methodology of our intelligence agencies. How does this have ANYTHING to do with Bush himself? At all?

^ That.

If we had the intelligence of the plot and the intelligence community dropped the ball on informing the right people and trying to stop the plot, then the entire blame falls squarely on their shoulder's not Bush's....... The higher up the chain of command you go, the less they know of the events and the details of the plot. The US is structured in a way so that high ranking figures dont have to make all these decisions about what do to and who to go after, other agencies exist to handle that for them.

You are entirely misinformed. See my above post. Bush was informed.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 12:23:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:12:08 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:02:17 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

No, it falls on the organization, structure, and methodology of our intelligence agencies. How does this have ANYTHING to do with Bush himself? At all?

^ That.

If we had the intelligence of the plot and the intelligence community dropped the ball on informing the right people and trying to stop the plot, then the entire blame falls squarely on their shoulder's not Bush's....... The higher up the chain of command you go, the less they know of the events and the details of the plot. The US is structured in a way so that high ranking figures dont have to make all these decisions about what do to and who to go after, other agencies exist to handle that for them.

Regardless, you also fail to understand the meaning of responsibility. No one forced Bush to run for POTUS. To achieve that position means that you are also held responsible for the successes and the failures of this country as a whole.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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9/12/2013 12:32:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:11:07 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:02:17 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 9/12/2013 11:30:08 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
I was in basic training when 9/11 occurred. Our barracks were fenced off and we were not visited by anyone in a position of authority for hours until a full-bird colonel visited us and informed us of what had happened.

What I think we need to remember more than anything else is that this was an exceptional attack. This SHOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED. That it did occur means that we need to hold anyone and everyone in a position of responsibility accountable. That means al Qaeda, and we have held them accountable. That means our intelligence community, and we have held them accountable.

That also means our commander-in-chief. It is ludicrous and bordering insanity to think that Bush did not drop the ball on this one. Regardless of whether or not the intelligence community could have emphasized it more, could have made the threat more evident than it was, the bottom line is that WE CAUGHT THE INTEL ON THIS, and YET IT STILL OCCURRED. This falls squarely on Bush. To turn him into a hero because of this national travesty is so misguided as to make me sick.

No, it falls on the organization, structure, and methodology of our intelligence agencies. How does this have ANYTHING to do with Bush himself? At all?

Clearly, you do not understand the meaning of responsibility.

Clearly, you don't get how to hold a normal conversation with another human being.

Bush could have moved heaven and earth, and had it still occurred, he still would have been responsible. That he did next to nothing is insulting.

1. I don't accept the nytime's narrative simply because they provide no argument; it is assertion.

2. Bin Laden's phone call saying that there would be "very big news" doesn't get immediately processed and analyzed by the intelligence community. I've never heard that it was directly reported to the White House.

Even if the intelligence community said absolutely nothing about the possibility of the event, Bush would still be held responsible for it occurring. That's what it means to preside over the country. It is not fair, but life is not fair.

Yeah, and Zbigniew Brzezinski must have been at fault, too, for arming the Mujahideen in the 80's.

Regardless, he was informed. What he did with that intel is where the responsibility of the intelligence community ends and where the White House's culpability begins.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 12:34:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:32:38 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:11:07 PM, wrichcirw wrote:

Clearly, you don't get how to hold a normal conversation with another human being.

Projection. Given the gravity of the subject matter, I will not dignify any more comments from you with a response.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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9/12/2013 12:38:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:21:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:12:08 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:02:17 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

No, it falls on the organization, structure, and methodology of our intelligence agencies. How does this have ANYTHING to do with Bush himself? At all?

^ That.

If we had the intelligence of the plot and the intelligence community dropped the ball on informing the right people and trying to stop the plot, then the entire blame falls squarely on their shoulder's not Bush's....... The higher up the chain of command you go, the less they know of the events and the details of the plot. The US is structured in a way so that high ranking figures dont have to make all these decisions about what do to and who to go after, other agencies exist to handle that for them.

You are entirely misinformed. See my above post. Bush was informed.

Just because the FBI and the CIA knew it doesnt mean that Bush knew. It also doesnt mean that Bush was fully informed about the gravity of the plots either because if he was somehow informed of the plot prior to 9/11, he most likely was not given all the information needed to do something about it since evidently the FBI and CIA couldnt even find enough to do something about it themselves....
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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9/12/2013 12:56:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:38:01 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:21:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:12:08 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:02:17 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

No, it falls on the organization, structure, and methodology of our intelligence agencies. How does this have ANYTHING to do with Bush himself? At all?

^ That.

If we had the intelligence of the plot and the intelligence community dropped the ball on informing the right people and trying to stop the plot, then the entire blame falls squarely on their shoulder's not Bush's....... The higher up the chain of command you go, the less they know of the events and the details of the plot. The US is structured in a way so that high ranking figures dont have to make all these decisions about what do to and who to go after, other agencies exist to handle that for them.

You are entirely misinformed. See my above post. Bush was informed.

Just because the FBI and the CIA knew it doesnt mean that Bush knew. It also doesnt mean that Bush was fully informed about the gravity of the plots either because if he was somehow informed of the plot prior to 9/11, he most likely was not given all the information needed to do something about it since evidently the FBI and CIA couldnt even find enough to do something about it themselves....

I'll repost this... Bush was informed.

http://www.nytimes.com...
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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9/12/2013 1:03:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:34:43 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:32:38 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:11:07 PM, wrichcirw wrote:

Clearly, you don't get how to hold a normal conversation with another human being.

Projection. Given the gravity of the subject matter, I will not dignify any more comments from you with a response.

Is this actually serious?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 1:03:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 12:38:01 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:21:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:12:08 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/12/2013 12:02:17 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

No, it falls on the organization, structure, and methodology of our intelligence agencies. How does this have ANYTHING to do with Bush himself? At all?

^ That.

If we had the intelligence of the plot and the intelligence community dropped the ball on informing the right people and trying to stop the plot, then the entire blame falls squarely on their shoulder's not Bush's....... The higher up the chain of command you go, the less they know of the events and the details of the plot. The US is structured in a way so that high ranking figures dont have to make all these decisions about what do to and who to go after, other agencies exist to handle that for them.

You are entirely misinformed. See my above post. Bush was informed.

Just because the FBI and the CIA knew it doesnt mean that Bush knew. It also doesnt mean that Bush was fully informed about the gravity of the plots either because if he was somehow informed of the plot prior to 9/11, he most likely was not given all the information needed to do something about it since evidently the FBI and CIA couldnt even find enough to do something about it themselves....

Did you even look at the source? That was a PRESIDENTIAL DAILY BRIEFING. That report was made FOR THE PRESIDENT,
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 1:04:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 1:03:42 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

[ignored]
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Eitan_Zohar
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9/12/2013 1:07:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 1:04:22 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 9/12/2013 1:03:42 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

[ignored]

wirchcirw's debate mastery:

Spout meaningless ad hominems alongside argument.

When asked to stop ad hominems, spurn entire rebuttal and act self-righteous.

Claim victory!
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 1:09:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 1:07:28 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

[ignored]
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Eitan_Zohar
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9/12/2013 1:10:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 1:09:39 PM, wrichcirw wrote:

[ignored]
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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9/12/2013 1:10:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 1:09:39 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 9/12/2013 1:07:28 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

[ignored]

[ignored]
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Eitan_Zohar
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9/12/2013 1:10:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh, and check out yer own sig. That's irony right there.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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9/12/2013 1:10:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/12/2013 1:10:05 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 9/12/2013 1:09:39 PM, wrichcirw wrote:

[ignored]

[ignored]
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2013 1:12:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm sorry, but at this point, I see no reason to respond to children. There are many people on this website that are Eitan's age or younger that display far more maturity than people twice their age. That people like Eitan fail to meet this threshold is unfortunate.

That some people like Eitan think that constructive dialogue comes with peevish and insulting innuendos is beneath the gravity of the matter at hand.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Polaris
Posts: 1,120
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9/12/2013 1:12:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The thing a lot of people don't realize is that the 9/11 attacks were an outlier. Al Qaeda got extraordinarily lucky. Most terrorist plots don't even make it past planning phase.