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Military open carry?

ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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9/17/2013 10:57:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
In light of the recent attack at the DC Naval Yard Iv heard people talking about how military personnel should be allowed to carry firearms whilst on base. What are your opinions on this? Does having gun free zones on a military base even make much sense? If they could carry should it be only issued weapons or should they be allowed to bring their personal firearms from home? Thoughts?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/17/2013 1:14:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 10:57:37 AM, ararmer1919 wrote:
In light of the recent attack at the DC Naval Yard Iv heard people talking about how military personnel should be allowed to carry firearms whilst on base. What are your opinions on this? Does having gun free zones on a military base even make much sense? If they could carry should it be only issued weapons or should they be allowed to bring their personal firearms from home? Thoughts?

I was going to go into a particular scenario, but in the interests of OPSEC, I will keep it as general as possible.

While I was in Korea, Osan AB ran plenty of exercises. Perhaps you are familiar with them. While I did not participate in most of them because I worked behind 10 feet of concrete, I did know enough to ascertain the ammunition requirements during those exercises (a popular question you would imagine, yes?), and will simply say that no matter how pressing, how urgent, and how much yelling and screaming was involved in an incident, in no way was anyone's life in danger, and I distinctly remember this was due to the ammunition requirements during the exercise.

My point being, if this was how they were handling a mock-up NK invasion, then more than likely the day-by-day MPs are also not exactly carrying too much. If they started packing heavy, I would imagine that illegal weapon-discharge-incidents would skyrocket.

That's my view at any rate. You'd have to ask yourself that if everyone openly carried in the interests of safety, then does the increased rate of illegal discharges (no pun intended, lol) justify it? My guess is that the military already has a whole lot of numbers on this topic, and that if they didn't allow everyone to carry after Ft. Hood, they're certainly not going to allow it after this incident.

Finally, the Air Force is absolutely obsessed with "safety first". That may have colored my view on this particular topic...the official line goes bonkers over annual suicide rates, and that even though the rate is typically below the civilian rate, it's still tragic, still a failure of safety first, etc...in the Air Force, even with these low suicide rates, more airmen are typically killed via suicide than by any other reason, including combat.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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9/17/2013 3:36:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 10:57:37 AM, ararmer1919 wrote:
In light of the recent attack at the DC Naval Yard Iv heard people talking about how military personnel should be allowed to carry firearms whilst on base. What are your opinions on this? Does having gun free zones on a military base even make much sense? If they could carry should it be only issued weapons or should they be allowed to bring their personal firearms from home? Thoughts?

Would make sense. You can't have a mass shooting on a military base when around every corner is a well trained soldier packing heat. The fact we can have a mass shooting on a military base in our nations capital speaks volumes about current security measures.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
ironmaiden
Posts: 456
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9/17/2013 7:29:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Just saying, I think it's astonishing that you can walk into a US military base and attack the people there.
I've never been on a military base and I probably never will be, so I don't know what the security is like on one. However, it seems like there should at least be armed guards there. There should be a machine gun nest here and there, or something. What if there was another Pearl Harbor-type attack and a base of ours is suddenly attacked? If no one is armed, the base is toast.
Logic tells me that everyone on a base has easy access to a firearm, so why not just let them carry, instead of disarming the innocent?
If I lived in Texas I wouldn't rob a bank mainly because that's bad, but also because someone might cap me as soon as I had my gun raised. I wouldn't attack a military base mainly because that's bad and plain stupid, but I would be even more afraid to do so if everyone had a gun on them.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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9/17/2013 7:40:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 7:29:18 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
Just saying, I think it's astonishing that you can walk into a US military base and attack the people there.
I've never been on a military base and I probably never will be, so I don't know what the security is like on one. However, it seems like there should at least be armed guards there. There should be a machine gun nest here and there, or something. What if there was another Pearl Harbor-type attack and a base of ours is suddenly attacked? If no one is armed, the base is toast.
Logic tells me that everyone on a base has easy access to a firearm, so why not just let them carry, instead of disarming the innocent?
If I lived in Texas I wouldn't rob a bank mainly because that's bad, but also because someone might cap me as soon as I had my gun raised. I wouldn't attack a military base mainly because that's bad and plain stupid, but I would be even more afraid to do so if everyone had a gun on them.

Yeah it's funny when people talk about the security on military bases cause usually they have this mentality of fully combat loaded armed guards strolling around and as you said it "machine gun nests" or something. When the sad reality is our security is laughable. Nothing but a chain link fence around the perimeter, a small police force of MPs in cop cars with 9 mms and 12 gauges. And, well that's about it actually. Like I said. Sad. In fact it would be easy as hell to sneak on to my base especially early in the morning when traffic is just waved through. It's ridicules. And if something happened it would be a good couple of hours before we could arm ourselves.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/17/2013 9:17:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 7:40:20 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 9/17/2013 7:29:18 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
Just saying, I think it's astonishing that you can walk into a US military base and attack the people there.
I've never been on a military base and I probably never will be, so I don't know what the security is like on one. However, it seems like there should at least be armed guards there. There should be a machine gun nest here and there, or something. What if there was another Pearl Harbor-type attack and a base of ours is suddenly attacked? If no one is armed, the base is toast.
Logic tells me that everyone on a base has easy access to a firearm, so why not just let them carry, instead of disarming the innocent?
If I lived in Texas I wouldn't rob a bank mainly because that's bad, but also because someone might cap me as soon as I had my gun raised. I wouldn't attack a military base mainly because that's bad and plain stupid, but I would be even more afraid to do so if everyone had a gun on them.

Yeah it's funny when people talk about the security on military bases cause usually they have this mentality of fully combat loaded armed guards strolling around and as you said it "machine gun nests" or something. When the sad reality is our security is laughable. Nothing but a chain link fence around the perimeter, a small police force of MPs in cop cars with 9 mms and 12 gauges. And, well that's about it actually. Like I said. Sad. In fact it would be easy as hell to sneak on to my base especially early in the morning when traffic is just waved through. It's ridicules. And if something happened it would be a good couple of hours before we could arm ourselves.

I went to the Defense Language Institute in Monterey as part of my military training. It's right next to the coast, a nice jog from the aquarium and Cannery row.

Before 9/11, anyone, military or civilian could drive through the base and not even be stopped at a checkpoint. It's a nice campus, as long as you're not driving at 5AM when the army is doing their drilling when they just kind of plop anywhere and start doing calisthenics. That ain't pretty, lol.

After 9/11, the base was on lockdown. They armed students awaiting security clearances with M-16s and had them stand watch. There were random vehicle searches which took anywhere from 10-45 minutes to complete. No civilians were allowed at that point.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
ironmaiden
Posts: 456
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9/17/2013 11:02:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 7:40:20 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 9/17/2013 7:29:18 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
Just saying, I think it's astonishing that you can walk into a US military base and attack the people there.
I've never been on a military base and I probably never will be, so I don't know what the security is like on one. However, it seems like there should at least be armed guards there. There should be a machine gun nest here and there, or something. What if there was another Pearl Harbor-type attack and a base of ours is suddenly attacked? If no one is armed, the base is toast.
Logic tells me that everyone on a base has easy access to a firearm, so why not just let them carry, instead of disarming the innocent?
If I lived in Texas I wouldn't rob a bank mainly because that's bad, but also because someone might cap me as soon as I had my gun raised. I wouldn't attack a military base mainly because that's bad and plain stupid, but I would be even more afraid to do so if everyone had a gun on them.

Yeah it's funny when people talk about the security on military bases cause usually they have this mentality of fully combat loaded armed guards strolling around and as you said it "machine gun nests" or something. When the sad reality is our security is laughable. Nothing but a chain link fence around the perimeter, a small police force of MPs in cop cars with 9 mms and 12 gauges. And, well that's about it actually. Like I said. Sad. In fact it would be easy as hell to sneak on to my base especially early in the morning when traffic is just waved through. It's ridicules. And if something happened it would be a good couple of hours before we could arm ourselves.

Wow, that is pretty bad. Like I said, I'm not in the military so I wasn't real sure. I mean, it's the US military--it's supposed to be invincible. But as it turns out you can walk in and go on a killing spree. That's very ironic. So you're in the military? Well, I pray for your safety and the safety of everyone else. It's a sad world and we're all part of it. Thank you for your service as well.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Sitara
Posts: 745
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9/17/2013 11:33:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 10:57:37 AM, ararmer1919 wrote:
In light of the recent attack at the DC Naval Yard Iv heard people talking about how military personnel should be allowed to carry firearms whilst on base. What are your opinions on this? Does having gun free zones on a military base even make much sense? If they could carry should it be only issued weapons or should they be allowed to bring their personal firearms from home? Thoughts?
Yes. Most military people have gone throught the needed background checks and training so they have the right to open carry. Military bases are of high strategic importance and as such, they need more protection.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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9/19/2013 11:58:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'll just point out that majority of mass shootings take place in gun-free zones.
Though I'm not sure why you'd make the distinction between open and conceal carry, neither were allowed but either would be as likely to confront the shooter.
As it stands the concealed vs open carry debate is as old as the law and compelling cases can be made for both.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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9/20/2013 8:39:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/18/2013 10:24:23 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
You should be able to open-carry anywhere.

One should be allowed to open carry in a prison? In a school? In a hospital? In a bank?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/20/2013 10:44:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 8:39:47 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 9/18/2013 10:24:23 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
You should be able to open-carry anywhere.

One should be allowed to open carry in a prison? In a school? In a hospital? In a bank?

What I will object to about open-carrying on a military installation is that there are families and children running about, with schools, hospitals, banks, shopping facilities, etc...it's not just trained soldiers doing their business.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/20/2013 10:53:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 10:44:52 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 9/20/2013 8:39:47 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 9/18/2013 10:24:23 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
You should be able to open-carry anywhere.

One should be allowed to open carry in a prison? In a school? In a hospital? In a bank?

What I will object to about open-carrying on a military installation is that there are families and children running about, with schools, hospitals, banks, shopping facilities, etc...it's not just trained soldiers doing their business.

I mean, again, maybe this is the difference between Air Force and USMC perspectives, lol. =)

I found the Air Force to be extremely...corporate. It's IMHO easily the most "civilian" of all the branches of the military. I've worked in joint units throughout the majority of my service, so I would say that I have a decent perspective on the issue.

I would imagine the USMC would have the perspective that "the Marine Corp didn't issue you a family, etc..." and so would be a lot less considerate pertaining such issues.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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9/26/2013 12:17:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 8:39:47 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 9/18/2013 10:24:23 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
You should be able to open-carry anywhere.

One should be allowed to open carry in a prison? In a school? In a hospital? In a bank?

You can carry in a hospital and a bank...There's a reason mass shootings happen at schools and not hospitals.

Not really sure where you're going with the prison bit, it's clearly and with good reason against the law to bring a fire arm into a building which houses criminals.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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9/26/2013 1:35:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/26/2013 12:17:22 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 9/20/2013 8:39:47 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 9/18/2013 10:24:23 AM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
You should be able to open-carry anywhere.

One should be allowed to open carry in a prison? In a school? In a hospital? In a bank?

You can carry in a hospital and a bank...

I said should, not is.

There's a reason mass shootings happen at schools and not hospitals.


Yes, because there is a guarantee of large amounts of targets, and generally a personal connection to the school.

Not really sure where you're going with the prison bit, it's clearly and with good reason against the law to bring a fire arm into a building which houses criminals.

What's that?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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9/26/2013 2:10:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 10:57:37 AM, ararmer1919 wrote:
In light of the recent attack at the DC Naval Yard Iv heard people talking about how military personnel should be allowed to carry firearms whilst on base. What are your opinions on this? Does having gun free zones on a military base even make much sense? If they could carry should it be only issued weapons or should they be allowed to bring their personal firearms from home? Thoughts?

I mean, they normally issue handguns only to officers so issued handguns to normal personnel is out of the question. And bringing personally owned firearms to your base/MOS workplace is and has always been a huge no-no.

I can't see a case where the military would allow open-carrying for non-combat, non-officer personnel. Outside of women serving and homosexuals openly serving, military policy isn't normally affected by any measure of public opinion we could muster.
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