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The downside to a two party system

ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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9/19/2013 7:33:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Partisan politics in a two party system is damaging to most everyone's rational thinking. It is shown in this particular study that loyalties to your party and ideology can sometimes overtake your ability to reason and analyze facts. A two party system is the most logical in my opinion, but it has it's downsides, such as causing deep partisan divides like the ones shown here.

http://www.npr.org...
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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9/19/2013 7:37:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:33:30 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Partisan politics in a two party system is damaging to most everyone's rational thinking. It is shown in this particular study that loyalties to your party and ideology can sometimes overtake your ability to reason and analyze facts. A two party system is the most logical in my opinion, but it has it's downsides, such as causing deep partisan divides like the ones shown here.

http://www.npr.org...

One word: Canada

You need more parties than just 2, we have 5 that get seats (Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, Green Party, and Bloc Quebecois)

some are just for "interests" such as the Bloc or Green party (which get like 1-4 seats each) but yeah, certainly makes for a more diverse system with a little better representation when you add more into the mix. Believe it or not, generally speaking other than environmental protection, most green party members are actually conservatives here (or vote in line with that ideology) so a fair more amount of unison actually takes place than most misconceptions of a grid-locked system everyone claims it is.
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ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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9/19/2013 7:45:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:37:35 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:33:30 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Partisan politics in a two party system is damaging to most everyone's rational thinking. It is shown in this particular study that loyalties to your party and ideology can sometimes overtake your ability to reason and analyze facts. A two party system is the most logical in my opinion, but it has it's downsides, such as causing deep partisan divides like the ones shown here.

http://www.npr.org...


One word: Canada

You need more parties than just 2, we have 5 that get seats (Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, Green Party, and Bloc Quebecois)

some are just for "interests" such as the Bloc or Green party (which get like 1-4 seats each) but yeah, certainly makes for a more diverse system with a little better representation when you add more into the mix. Believe it or not, generally speaking other than environmental protection, most green party members are actually conservatives here (or vote in line with that ideology) so a fair more amount of unison actually takes place than most misconceptions of a grid-locked system everyone claims it is.

We would need at least four parties, if a third was created, which would most likely be the tea party or some sort of libertarian party, it would just make an unfair split in the republican party that would allow the Democrats to dominate the Executive branch. We would need a separate branch of each party and decent backing from the new branches, it wouldn't be an easy conversion by any means. I see a lot of american liberals for gun rights, against abortions, against collective bargaining, so maybe there could be a Moderate Democrat party or something.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/19/2013 8:11:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:37:35 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:33:30 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Partisan politics in a two party system is damaging to most everyone's rational thinking. It is shown in this particular study that loyalties to your party and ideology can sometimes overtake your ability to reason and analyze facts. A two party system is the most logical in my opinion, but it has it's downsides, such as causing deep partisan divides like the ones shown here.

http://www.npr.org...


One word: Canada

You need more parties than just 2, we have 5 that get seats (Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, Green Party, and Bloc Quebecois)

some are just for "interests" such as the Bloc or Green party (which get like 1-4 seats each) but yeah, certainly makes for a more diverse system with a little better representation when you add more into the mix. Believe it or not, generally speaking other than environmental protection, most green party members are actually conservatives here (or vote in line with that ideology) so a fair more amount of unison actually takes place than most misconceptions of a grid-locked system everyone claims it is.

Canada's system ranges from moderate left parties (PC) to we-might-as-well-call-ourselves-communist parties; there really isn't that large of a choice.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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9/19/2013 8:28:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:45:01 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:37:35 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:33:30 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Partisan politics in a two party system is damaging to most everyone's rational thinking. It is shown in this particular study that loyalties to your party and ideology can sometimes overtake your ability to reason and analyze facts. A two party system is the most logical in my opinion, but it has it's downsides, such as causing deep partisan divides like the ones shown here.

http://www.npr.org...


One word: Canada

You need more parties than just 2, we have 5 that get seats (Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, Green Party, and Bloc Quebecois)

some are just for "interests" such as the Bloc or Green party (which get like 1-4 seats each) but yeah, certainly makes for a more diverse system with a little better representation when you add more into the mix. Believe it or not, generally speaking other than environmental protection, most green party members are actually conservatives here (or vote in line with that ideology) so a fair more amount of unison actually takes place than most misconceptions of a grid-locked system everyone claims it is.

We would need at least four parties, if a third was created, which would most likely be the tea party or some sort of libertarian party, it would just make an unfair split in the republican party that would allow the Democrats to dominate the Executive branch. We would need a separate branch of each party and decent backing from the new branches, it wouldn't be an easy conversion by any means. I see a lot of american liberals for gun rights, against abortions, against collective bargaining, so maybe there could be a Moderate Democrat party or something.

Eh, the split isn't exactly a problem if you replace the electoral college (which enables the two party system) with instant run-off voting.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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9/19/2013 8:39:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 8:28:51 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:45:01 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:37:35 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:33:30 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Partisan politics in a two party system is damaging to most everyone's rational thinking. It is shown in this particular study that loyalties to your party and ideology can sometimes overtake your ability to reason and analyze facts. A two party system is the most logical in my opinion, but it has it's downsides, such as causing deep partisan divides like the ones shown here.

http://www.npr.org...


One word: Canada

You need more parties than just 2, we have 5 that get seats (Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, Green Party, and Bloc Quebecois)

some are just for "interests" such as the Bloc or Green party (which get like 1-4 seats each) but yeah, certainly makes for a more diverse system with a little better representation when you add more into the mix. Believe it or not, generally speaking other than environmental protection, most green party members are actually conservatives here (or vote in line with that ideology) so a fair more amount of unison actually takes place than most misconceptions of a grid-locked system everyone claims it is.

We would need at least four parties, if a third was created, which would most likely be the tea party or some sort of libertarian party, it would just make an unfair split in the republican party that would allow the Democrats to dominate the Executive branch. We would need a separate branch of each party and decent backing from the new branches, it wouldn't be an easy conversion by any means. I see a lot of american liberals for gun rights, against abortions, against collective bargaining, so maybe there could be a Moderate Democrat party or something.

Eh, the split isn't exactly a problem if you replace the electoral college (which enables the two party system) with instant run-off voting.

That's an interesting point, I have always thought IRV would be the best alternative to our Plurality based system, but it has never really been applied in practice in any major countries. Usually a variation of IRV is used, IRV has only been used how it was originally intended to be used by Ireland, as far as I know.
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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9/19/2013 8:42:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 8:39:34 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/19/2013 8:28:51 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:45:01 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:37:35 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:33:30 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Partisan politics in a two party system is damaging to most everyone's rational thinking. It is shown in this particular study that loyalties to your party and ideology can sometimes overtake your ability to reason and analyze facts. A two party system is the most logical in my opinion, but it has it's downsides, such as causing deep partisan divides like the ones shown here.

http://www.npr.org...


One word: Canada

You need more parties than just 2, we have 5 that get seats (Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, Green Party, and Bloc Quebecois)

some are just for "interests" such as the Bloc or Green party (which get like 1-4 seats each) but yeah, certainly makes for a more diverse system with a little better representation when you add more into the mix. Believe it or not, generally speaking other than environmental protection, most green party members are actually conservatives here (or vote in line with that ideology) so a fair more amount of unison actually takes place than most misconceptions of a grid-locked system everyone claims it is.

We would need at least four parties, if a third was created, which would most likely be the tea party or some sort of libertarian party, it would just make an unfair split in the republican party that would allow the Democrats to dominate the Executive branch. We would need a separate branch of each party and decent backing from the new branches, it wouldn't be an easy conversion by any means. I see a lot of american liberals for gun rights, against abortions, against collective bargaining, so maybe there could be a Moderate Democrat party or something.

Eh, the split isn't exactly a problem if you replace the electoral college (which enables the two party system) with instant run-off voting.

That's an interesting point, I have always thought IRV would be the best alternative to our Plurality based system, but it has never really been applied in practice in any major countries. Usually a variation of IRV is used, IRV has only been used how it was originally intended to be used by Ireland, as far as I know.

Yeah, I had to write a research paper on it (well, the electoral college and its alternatives) a while ago, and though it hasn't been applied much in the past, I see no reason (other than the constitutional one) that it couldn't be implemented.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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9/19/2013 8:46:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 8:42:57 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 9/19/2013 8:39:34 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/19/2013 8:28:51 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:45:01 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:37:35 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:33:30 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Partisan politics in a two party system is damaging to most everyone's rational thinking. It is shown in this particular study that loyalties to your party and ideology can sometimes overtake your ability to reason and analyze facts. A two party system is the most logical in my opinion, but it has it's downsides, such as causing deep partisan divides like the ones shown here.

http://www.npr.org...


One word: Canada

You need more parties than just 2, we have 5 that get seats (Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, Green Party, and Bloc Quebecois)

some are just for "interests" such as the Bloc or Green party (which get like 1-4 seats each) but yeah, certainly makes for a more diverse system with a little better representation when you add more into the mix. Believe it or not, generally speaking other than environmental protection, most green party members are actually conservatives here (or vote in line with that ideology) so a fair more amount of unison actually takes place than most misconceptions of a grid-locked system everyone claims it is.

We would need at least four parties, if a third was created, which would most likely be the tea party or some sort of libertarian party, it would just make an unfair split in the republican party that would allow the Democrats to dominate the Executive branch. We would need a separate branch of each party and decent backing from the new branches, it wouldn't be an easy conversion by any means. I see a lot of american liberals for gun rights, against abortions, against collective bargaining, so maybe there could be a Moderate Democrat party or something.

Eh, the split isn't exactly a problem if you replace the electoral college (which enables the two party system) with instant run-off voting.

That's an interesting point, I have always thought IRV would be the best alternative to our Plurality based system, but it has never really been applied in practice in any major countries. Usually a variation of IRV is used, IRV has only been used how it was originally intended to be used by Ireland, as far as I know.

Yeah, I had to write a research paper on it (well, the electoral college and its alternatives) a while ago, and though it hasn't been applied much in the past, I see no reason (other than the constitutional one) that it couldn't be implemented.

The secondary reason behind the IRV, besides practicality that is (which is what we were speaking of), it would eliminate the rather petty partisan divide we have in the US, as mentioned in the OP. You could support two parties, or even more if you supported one main party and then other single issue parties. I just feel right now that most people start out saying "Well, I disagree with a lot of points in this party's platform, but I most closely align with them", and then they betray their original ideology to show some sort of loyalty to their party, and are eventually indoctrinated in to taking on all of their party's platform.