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Game of Thrones: The Politics

AnDoctuir
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9/28/2013 6:31:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"We are the Thirteen: charged with the governance and protection of Qarth, the greatest city that ever was or will be."

- Libertarianism. In the end these thirteen turn out to be quite the tyrants, harbouring amongst them one most vile indeed. It seems George R. R. Martin agrees with me where Cody has once told me I was talking nonsense.

The politics in this show is quite actually sublime and I do have much respect for George R. R. Martin for his lifelong support of the Democratic Party also. That said, however, I do still think he falls short of J.K. Rowling in his appreciation.

Thoughts? It's definitely a show to be watched anyway.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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9/28/2013 7:53:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 6:31:00 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
"We are the Thirteen: charged with the governance and protection of Qarth, the greatest city that ever was or will be."

- Libertarianism. In the end these thirteen turn out to be quite the tyrants, harbouring amongst them one most vile indeed. It seems George R. R. Martin agrees with me where Cody has once told me I was talking nonsense.

The politics in this show is quite actually sublime and I do have much respect for George R. R. Martin for his lifelong support of the Democratic Party also. That said, however, I do still think he falls short of J.K. Rowling in his appreciation.

Thoughts? It's definitely a show to be watched anyway.

So you think because a movie makes a revisionist style strawman against libertarians, that it is a feasible reason for you to discard libertarianism as utopian or unrealistic? Also, since when have movie stars had anything of substance to say about politics? Especially the new stars and artists.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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9/28/2013 7:56:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Andoc, I respect you but you have a lot of learning to do when you just made a radical change from bible thumping reactionary to communist. Did it ever occur to you that the manifesto was wrote by one moocher (karl) and an aristocrat? (Friedrich)
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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9/28/2013 8:00:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 6:31:00 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
"We are the Thirteen: charged with the governance and protection of Qarth, the greatest city that ever was or will be."

- Libertarianism. In the end these thirteen turn out to be quite the tyrants, harbouring amongst them one most vile indeed. It seems George R. R. Martin agrees with me where Cody has once told me I was talking nonsense.

When, and in what context, did I say that?
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

Furthermore, I'm not quite sure it could be said that George R.R. Martin is a revisionist, but perhaps just one who is playing a Game of Thrones. Either way, though, the man is sensible and stands behind something I consider good. You should really check out the series. It is a tremendously insightful exposition on human nature.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/28/2013 8:05:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:00:25 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 9/28/2013 6:31:00 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
"We are the Thirteen: charged with the governance and protection of Qarth, the greatest city that ever was or will be."

- Libertarianism. In the end these thirteen turn out to be quite the tyrants, harbouring amongst them one most vile indeed. It seems George R. R. Martin agrees with me where Cody has once told me I was talking nonsense.

When, and in what context, did I say that?

Haha, you don't remember? You actually refused to engage me anymore because you believed I had veered so far from the path of sensibility that it was not worth it. Basically, I was positing the real life possibility of such a manifestation, one such as the thirteen put forward in GoT, and you refused to even acknowledge that.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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9/28/2013 8:11:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:05:02 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:00:25 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 9/28/2013 6:31:00 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
"We are the Thirteen: charged with the governance and protection of Qarth, the greatest city that ever was or will be."

- Libertarianism. In the end these thirteen turn out to be quite the tyrants, harbouring amongst them one most vile indeed. It seems George R. R. Martin agrees with me where Cody has once told me I was talking nonsense.

When, and in what context, did I say that?

Haha, you don't remember? You actually refused to engage me anymore because you believed I had veered so far from the path of sensibility that it was not worth it.

When was this? I do have a rule about not exhausting infinite amounts of time on discourse, but I try usually not to be so condescending when I do. In particular, I don't usually tell people they've "veered from the path of sensibility" or use the word "nonsense".

Basically, I was positing the real life possibility of such a manifestation, one such as the thirteen put forward in GoT, and you refused to even acknowledge that.

Can you point me to the thread or private message where this took place? I tried to do some research on my own, but I couldn't turn up anything.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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9/28/2013 8:11:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:11:30 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:05:02 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:00:25 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 9/28/2013 6:31:00 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
"We are the Thirteen: charged with the governance and protection of Qarth, the greatest city that ever was or will be."

- Libertarianism. In the end these thirteen turn out to be quite the tyrants, harbouring amongst them one most vile indeed. It seems George R. R. Martin agrees with me where Cody has once told me I was talking nonsense.

When, and in what context, did I say that?

Haha, you don't remember? You actually refused to engage me anymore because you believed I had veered so far from the path of sensibility that it was not worth it.

When was this? I do have a rule about not exhausting infinite amounts of time on discourse, but I try usually not to be so condescending when I do. In particular, I don't usually tell people they've "veered from the path of sensibility" or use the word "nonsense".

Basically, I was positing the real life possibility of such a manifestation, one such as the thirteen put forward in GoT, and you refused to even acknowledge that.

Can you point me to the thread or private message where this took place? I tried to do some research on my own, but I couldn't turn up anything.

Well, nevermind. You found it already.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/28/2013 8:13:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I respect you by the way, Cody. I don't mean to condescend either. It's just very often necessary.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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9/28/2013 8:20:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not that I mean to doubt the plainness of the evidence, but that was from two years ago. If you go back further than that, you could also find some unsavory comments I made to the effect that genital mutilation was a suitable punishment for adultery. I'm now, thankfully, a different person, philosophically and psychologically. I don't apologize for being vitriolic, because that would miss the point this late, but it suffices to say that I regret ever being so condescending, militant, and dismissive. I think what's decisive is not that I engaged in those behaviors and of employed those nasty practices, but that, on the level of the form of my life and thinking--my ethics, in a certain sense--there was a happy change.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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9/28/2013 8:22:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

Furthermore, I'm not quite sure it could be said that George R.R. Martin is a revisionist, but perhaps just one who is playing a Game of Thrones. Either way, though, the man is sensible and stands behind something I consider good. You should really check out the series. It is a tremendously insightful exposition on human nature.

What does he stand behind that you consider good?
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/28/2013 8:23:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:22:53 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

Furthermore, I'm not quite sure it could be said that George R.R. Martin is a revisionist, but perhaps just one who is playing a Game of Thrones. Either way, though, the man is sensible and stands behind something I consider good. You should really check out the series. It is a tremendously insightful exposition on human nature.

What does he stand behind that you consider good?

Democracy.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/28/2013 8:39:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:35:35 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

It also occurs to me to ask--what present appeal is being "bandied about?"

You're widely regarded as a very intelligent user on this site, and quite rightly in my opinion, but there are many who play petty games with intelligence, one of whom you could probably easily pick out at which this thread is directed.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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9/28/2013 8:49:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:23:37 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:22:53 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

Furthermore, I'm not quite sure it could be said that George R.R. Martin is a revisionist, but perhaps just one who is playing a Game of Thrones. Either way, though, the man is sensible and stands behind something I consider good. You should really check out the series. It is a tremendously insightful exposition on human nature.

What does he stand behind that you consider good?

Democracy.

Why do you assume that libertarian ism undermines democracy?
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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9/28/2013 8:53:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:39:14 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:35:35 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

It also occurs to me to ask--what present appeal is being "bandied about?"

You're widely regarded as a very intelligent user on this site, and quite rightly in my opinion, but there are many who play petty games with intelligence, one of whom you could probably easily pick out at which this thread is directed.

Since WSA is presently the most outspoken libertarian I know, I assume it's directed toward him. If I'm correct about that, and if you're correct in your estimation of him, do you imagine it will do much good to behave provocationally? I don't think I can support any positive emotional payout derived from calling public attention to another person's habitual flaws. If encouragement and living as an example are insufficient to guide someone, persecuting them will only induce more frustration and discontent than it alleviates.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/28/2013 8:59:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:53:02 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:39:14 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:35:35 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

It also occurs to me to ask--what present appeal is being "bandied about?"

You're widely regarded as a very intelligent user on this site, and quite rightly in my opinion, but there are many who play petty games with intelligence, one of whom you could probably easily pick out at which this thread is directed.

Since WSA is presently the most outspoken libertarian I know, I assume it's directed toward him. If I'm correct about that, and if you're correct in your estimation of him, do you imagine it will do much good to behave provocationally? I don't think I can support any positive emotional payout derived from calling public attention to another person's habitual flaws. If encouragement and living as an example are insufficient to guide someone, persecuting them will only induce more frustration and discontent than it alleviates.

"Do not answer fools according to their folly, or you will make of yourself a fool. But answer fools according to their folly, or they will be wise in their own eyes."
Proverbs 26:4

What ya gonna do, Cody? I am personally of the opinion that the ends justify the means insofar as there is no irreparable damage done. It is a terrible thing, but it is only really violence that will change a mind, dude.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/28/2013 8:59:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:49:24 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:23:37 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:22:53 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

Furthermore, I'm not quite sure it could be said that George R.R. Martin is a revisionist, but perhaps just one who is playing a Game of Thrones. Either way, though, the man is sensible and stands behind something I consider good. You should really check out the series. It is a tremendously insightful exposition on human nature.

What does he stand behind that you consider good?

Democracy.

Why do you assume that libertarian ism undermines democracy?

Seems the consensus.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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9/28/2013 9:09:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:59:41 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:49:24 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:23:37 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:22:53 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

Furthermore, I'm not quite sure it could be said that George R.R. Martin is a revisionist, but perhaps just one who is playing a Game of Thrones. Either way, though, the man is sensible and stands behind something I consider good. You should really check out the series. It is a tremendously insightful exposition on human nature.

What does he stand behind that you consider good?

Democracy.

Why do you assume that libertarian ism undermines democracy?

Seems the consensus.

So you believe anything you hear as long as it means you can take comfort in the moral majority?
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/28/2013 9:16:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 9:09:24 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:59:41 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:49:24 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:23:37 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:22:53 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

Furthermore, I'm not quite sure it could be said that George R.R. Martin is a revisionist, but perhaps just one who is playing a Game of Thrones. Either way, though, the man is sensible and stands behind something I consider good. You should really check out the series. It is a tremendously insightful exposition on human nature.

What does he stand behind that you consider good?

Democracy.

Why do you assume that libertarian ism undermines democracy?

Seems the consensus.

So you believe anything you hear as long as it means you can take comfort in the moral majority?

No, I combat that which I think is wrong. My apologies, though, if I have lumped you in with some who you would not have yourself associated with, but if that is the case then perhaps you should make a greater attempt not to be associated with them.

As regards comfort, I seek peace for all. Is that such a sin? Am I but a fool trying to gain God's good graces? I think not.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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9/28/2013 9:17:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 8:59:03 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:53:02 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Since WSA is presently the most outspoken libertarian I know, I assume it's directed toward him. If I'm correct about that, and if you're correct in your estimation of him, do you imagine it will do much good to behave provocationally? I don't think I can support any positive emotional payout derived from calling public attention to another person's habitual flaws. If encouragement and living as an example are insufficient to guide someone, persecuting them will only induce more frustration and discontent than it alleviates.

"Do not answer fools according to their folly, or you will make of yourself a fool. But answer fools according to their folly, or they will be wise in their own eyes."
Proverbs 26:4

What ya gonna do, Cody? I am personally of the opinion that the ends justify the means insofar as there is no irreparable damage done. It is a terrible thing, but it is only really violence that will change a mind, dude.

Damage done to whom? My worry is just as much for you as for him. It is a strange thing to quote Proverbs when other parts of their wisdom--loving your neighbor, refraining from pronouncing judgments, staying one's frustration--are overlooked.

Proverbs 15: "A mild answer breaketh wrath: but a harsh word stirreth up fury." Verse 4: "A peaceable tongue is a tree of life: but that which is immoderate, shall crush the spirit." 17: "It is better to be invited to herbs with love, than to a fatted calf with hatred.

Proverbs 11:12: "He that despiseth his friend, is mean of heart: but the wise man will hold his peace." 19: "Clemency prepareth life: and the pursuing of evil things, death."
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/28/2013 9:19:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Quite the feat of engineering this, don't you think, CA? http://www.debate.org...

Posted at the exact moment I made that last post. I defy God if he is otherwise to what I would imagine.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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9/28/2013 9:28:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 9:21:17 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
There is some sense to the Bible, Cody, but it is not all sense. It is as simple as that.

One does not need to be religious to glean a certain wisdom from Scripture; indeed, I think it is only by a process of profanation, a stripping-away of its theological context and implications, that its significance and the possibility for its use are made legible.

But, that aside, if this is the path you want to pursue with WSA, I'll neither condemn it nor try any further to dissuade you--I will only say I cannot support it.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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9/28/2013 9:50:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 9:16:34 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 9:09:24 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:59:41 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:49:24 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:23:37 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:22:53 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 9/28/2013 8:01:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm just offering up an appeal to authority to oppose the one currently being bandied about on here, CA.

Furthermore, I'm not quite sure it could be said that George R.R. Martin is a revisionist, but perhaps just one who is playing a Game of Thrones. Either way, though, the man is sensible and stands behind something I consider good. You should really check out the series. It is a tremendously insightful exposition on human nature.

What does he stand behind that you consider good?

Democracy.

Why do you assume that libertarian ism undermines democracy?

Seems the consensus.

So you believe anything you hear as long as it means you can take comfort in the moral majority?

No, I combat that which I think is wrong. My apologies, though, if I have lumped you in with some who you would not have yourself associated with, but if that is the case then perhaps you should make a greater attempt not to be associated with them.

As regards comfort, I seek peace for all. Is that such a sin? Am I but a fool trying to gain God's good graces? I think not.

This is a debate website, simply saying "I have an opinion that I'm entitled to" is not an argument.