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Nothing Happens If You Don't Pay Taxes

Wallstreetatheist
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10/2/2013 6:21:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you're self-employed without any major assets or loans, the odds of getting busted are extremely low. In fact, an estimated 7 million Americans fail to file their taxes every year, and in 2008 the IRS examined only 158,000 such cases. That comes out to a roughly 2 percent chance of getting caught. Even if the IRS does audit you, the agency probably won't press charges. Instead, they'll just file a tax return for you and charge you a fee for the trouble.

Source: http://www.slate.com...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, according to US law, if you refuse to give in to the extortion you may be assaulted on your own property, dragged into a car/van, kidnapped, caged, and contract AIDS from a guy named Bubba who rapes you daily, but that is rare. It's usually just the people the government is targeting [http://www.debate.org...] and vocal anti-tax protesters that get f'd in the a.
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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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10/2/2013 1:15:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 6:21:02 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Yes, according to US law, if you refuse to give in to the extortion you may be assaulted on your own property, dragged into a car/van, kidnapped, caged, and contract AIDS from a guy named Bubba who rapes you daily, but that is rare. It's usually just the people the government is targeting [http://www.debate.org...] and vocal anti-tax protesters that get f'd in the a.

And that's where you lose credibility.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/2/2013 5:51:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 1:15:49 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 6:21:02 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Yes, according to US law, if you refuse to give in to the extortion you may be assaulted on your own property, dragged into a car/van, kidnapped, caged, and contract AIDS from a guy named Bubba who rapes you daily, but that is rare. It's usually just the people the government is targeting [http://www.debate.org...] and vocal anti-tax protesters that get f'd in the a.

And that's where you lose credibility.

1) http://tinyurl.com...
2) It actually does happen [http://en.wikipedia.org...].
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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10/2/2013 6:53:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 5:51:10 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 1:15:49 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 6:21:02 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Yes, according to US law, if you refuse to give in to the extortion you may be assaulted on your own property, dragged into a car/van, kidnapped, caged, and contract AIDS from a guy named Bubba who rapes you daily, but that is rare. It's usually just the people the government is targeting [http://www.debate.org...] and vocal anti-tax protesters that get f'd in the a.

And that's where you lose credibility.

1) http://tinyurl.com...
2) It actually does happen [http://en.wikipedia.org...].

The juxtaposition of the consequences implies causality. You might as well finish it up with the eventual Heat Death of the Universe and blame that on the State, too. I find it hard to even imagine having a discussion about the topic of you are going to leap to prison rape as a State endorsed consequence of tax evasion.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/2/2013 7:39:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 6:53:19 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 5:51:10 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 1:15:49 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 6:21:02 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Yes, according to US law, if you refuse to give in to the extortion you may be assaulted on your own property, dragged into a car/van, kidnapped, caged, and contract AIDS from a guy named Bubba who rapes you daily, but that is rare. It's usually just the people the government is targeting [http://www.debate.org...] and vocal anti-tax protesters that get f'd in the a.

And that's where you lose credibility.

1) http://tinyurl.com...
2) It actually does happen [http://en.wikipedia.org...].

The juxtaposition of the consequences implies causality. You might as well finish it up with the eventual Heat Death of the Universe and blame that on the State, too. I find it hard to even imagine having a discussion about the topic of you are going to leap to prison rape as a State endorsed consequence of tax evasion.

lol, getting raped in prison isn't the punishment for tax evasion. Getting imprisoned is the punishment for tax evasion, direct causality.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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10/2/2013 7:42:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 7:39:35 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 6:53:19 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 5:51:10 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 1:15:49 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 6:21:02 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Yes, according to US law, if you refuse to give in to the extortion you may be assaulted on your own property, dragged into a car/van, kidnapped, caged, and contract AIDS from a guy named Bubba who rapes you daily, but that is rare. It's usually just the people the government is targeting [http://www.debate.org...] and vocal anti-tax protesters that get f'd in the a.

And that's where you lose credibility.

1) http://tinyurl.com...
2) It actually does happen [http://en.wikipedia.org...].

The juxtaposition of the consequences implies causality. You might as well finish it up with the eventual Heat Death of the Universe and blame that on the State, too. I find it hard to even imagine having a discussion about the topic of you are going to leap to prison rape as a State endorsed consequence of tax evasion.

lol, getting raped in prison isn't the punishment for tax evasion. Getting imprisoned is the punishment for tax evasion, direct causality.

By mixing between deliberate, direct consequences and potential, unintended indirect consequences, you imply they are all of the former type.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/2/2013 8:05:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 7:42:26 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 7:39:35 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 6:53:19 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 5:51:10 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 1:15:49 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 6:21:02 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Yes, according to US law, if you refuse to give in to the extortion you may be assaulted on your own property, dragged into a car/van, kidnapped, caged, and contract AIDS from a guy named Bubba who rapes you daily, but that is rare. It's usually just the people the government is targeting [http://www.debate.org...] and vocal anti-tax protesters that get f'd in the a.

And that's where you lose credibility.

1) http://tinyurl.com...
2) It actually does happen [http://en.wikipedia.org...].

The juxtaposition of the consequences implies causality. You might as well finish it up with the eventual Heat Death of the Universe and blame that on the State, too. I find it hard to even imagine having a discussion about the topic of you are going to leap to prison rape as a State endorsed consequence of tax evasion.

lol, getting raped in prison isn't the punishment for tax evasion. Getting imprisoned is the punishment for tax evasion, direct causality.

By mixing between deliberate, direct consequences and potential, unintended indirect consequences, you imply they are all of the former type.

You're not that dumb. Getting raped by a guy named Bubba is a common joke about prison, because an estimated 7.0% of prisoners get raped: "In a survey of 1,788 male inmates in Midwestern prisons by Prison Journal, about 21% claimed they had been coerced or pressured into sexual activity during their incarceration, and 7% claimed that they had been raped in their current facility." [http://www.justdetention.org...].
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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 8:05:57 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 7:42:26 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 7:39:35 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 6:53:19 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 5:51:10 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 1:15:49 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 6:21:02 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Yes, according to US law, if you refuse to give in to the extortion you may be assaulted on your own property, dragged into a car/van, kidnapped, caged, and contract AIDS from a guy named Bubba who rapes you daily, but that is rare. It's usually just the people the government is targeting [http://www.debate.org...] and vocal anti-tax protesters that get f'd in the a.

And that's where you lose credibility.

1) http://tinyurl.com...
2) It actually does happen [http://en.wikipedia.org...].

The juxtaposition of the consequences implies causality. You might as well finish it up with the eventual Heat Death of the Universe and blame that on the State, too. I find it hard to even imagine having a discussion about the topic of you are going to leap to prison rape as a State endorsed consequence of tax evasion.

lol, getting raped in prison isn't the punishment for tax evasion. Getting imprisoned is the punishment for tax evasion, direct causality.

By mixing between deliberate, direct consequences and potential, unintended indirect consequences, you imply they are all of the former type.

You're not that dumb. Getting raped by a guy named Bubba is a common joke about prison, because an estimated 7.0% of prisoners get raped: "In a survey of 1,788 male inmates in Midwestern prisons by Prison Journal, about 21% claimed they had been coerced or pressured into sexual activity during their incarceration, and 7% claimed that they had been raped in their current facility." [http://www.justdetention.org...].

When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?
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Sitara
Posts: 745
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10/3/2013 12:10:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?

I'll bite. taxes are the cost of living in a civlized society. It takes mony to have a strong national defense, criminal system, welfare, and such. Now over or under taxation are both problems, and the key is finding the right type and amount of taxation. But that prison rape thing pisses me the Hell off though.
Wallstreetatheist
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10/3/2013 1:11:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 12:10:08 AM, Sitara wrote:
At 10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?

I'll bite. taxes are the cost of living in a civlized society. It takes mony to have a strong national defense, criminal system, welfare, and such. Now over or under taxation are both problems, and the key is finding the right type and amount of taxation. But that prison rape thing pisses me the Hell off though.

So if my robber steals my wallet and then gives me some bus money, it's not theft?
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Sitara
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10/3/2013 1:45:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 1:11:45 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/3/2013 12:10:08 AM, Sitara wrote:
At 10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?

I'll bite. taxes are the cost of living in a civlized society. It takes mony to have a strong national defense, criminal system, welfare, and such. Now over or under taxation are both problems, and the key is finding the right type and amount of taxation. But that prison rape thing pisses me the Hell off though.

So if my robber steals my wallet and then gives me some bus money, it's not theft?
Your taxes pay for emergency services such as medical care, police protection, the use of the courts, fire protection, the military keeping this country safe (most of the time) from attack, libraries, roads, a return on tax paying when you retire (social security), Medicaid and/or Medicare when you need it/them, and so on. If you want to stop paying taxes, that's fine, but don't under any way stop paying taxes and continue to use these services, because then YOU are the thief. I would love to debate you on this tomorrow.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/3/2013 2:23:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 1:11:45 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/3/2013 12:10:08 AM, Sitara wrote:
At 10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?

I'll bite. taxes are the cost of living in a civlized society. It takes mony to have a strong national defense, criminal system, welfare, and such. Now over or under taxation are both problems, and the key is finding the right type and amount of taxation. But that prison rape thing pisses me the Hell off though.

So if my robber steals my wallet and then gives me some bus money, it's not theft?

False analogy.
Keeping in mind this "robber" is directly influenced by you through the voting process.
My work here is, finally, done.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/3/2013 2:37:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 2:23:02 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/3/2013 1:11:45 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/3/2013 12:10:08 AM, Sitara wrote:
At 10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?

I'll bite. taxes are the cost of living in a civlized society. It takes mony to have a strong national defense, criminal system, welfare, and such. Now over or under taxation are both problems, and the key is finding the right type and amount of taxation. But that prison rape thing pisses me the Hell off though.

So if my robber steals my wallet and then gives me some bus money, it's not theft?

False analogy.
Keeping in mind this "robber" is directly influenced by you through the voting process.

Didn't realize I could vote to eliminate taxation. Thanks for the massive realization, man. Now I'll comply with the extortion for the rest of my life while voting against it. Derp.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/3/2013 2:38:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 6:21:02 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
If you're self-employed without any major assets or loans, the odds of getting busted are extremely low. In fact, an estimated 7 million Americans fail to file their taxes every year, and in 2008 the IRS examined only 158,000 such cases. That comes out to a roughly 2 percent chance of getting caught. Even if the IRS does audit you, the agency probably won't press charges. Instead, they'll just file a tax return for you and charge you a fee for the trouble.

I am very curious about this "failure" of 7 million Americans. Is it a failure to file because they don't want to, are unaware they need to, or because they don't have to?

Obviously if someone is self-employed WITH NO EMPLOYEES they are unlikely to be audited for failure to report, because it is too difficult to be aware of revenue, expenses, or profit that wasn't reported.
How many people do you think actually report their minor gambling winnings, like going to the casino once a year and winning $500?

The IRS isn't going to waste its time in an effort to find and claim a few hundred dollars, and fraud is a very difficult case to prove. To be guilty of fraud, failure to file taxes correctly (or at all) has to be proven to be intentional.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/3/2013 2:40:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 2:37:58 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/3/2013 2:23:02 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/3/2013 1:11:45 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/3/2013 12:10:08 AM, Sitara wrote:
At 10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?

I'll bite. taxes are the cost of living in a civlized society. It takes mony to have a strong national defense, criminal system, welfare, and such. Now over or under taxation are both problems, and the key is finding the right type and amount of taxation. But that prison rape thing pisses me the Hell off though.

So if my robber steals my wallet and then gives me some bus money, it's not theft?

False analogy.
Keeping in mind this "robber" is directly influenced by you through the voting process.

Didn't realize I could vote to eliminate taxation. Thanks for the massive realization, man. Now I'll comply with the extortion for the rest of my life while voting against it. Derp.

So, if I sue you in a court of law, is that extortion?
My work here is, finally, done.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/3/2013 3:08:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 2:40:15 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/3/2013 2:37:58 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/3/2013 2:23:02 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/3/2013 1:11:45 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/3/2013 12:10:08 AM, Sitara wrote:
At 10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?

I'll bite. taxes are the cost of living in a civlized society. It takes mony to have a strong national defense, criminal system, welfare, and such. Now over or under taxation are both problems, and the key is finding the right type and amount of taxation. But that prison rape thing pisses me the Hell off though.

So if my robber steals my wallet and then gives me some bus money, it's not theft?

False analogy.
Keeping in mind this "robber" is directly influenced by you through the voting process.

Didn't realize I could vote to eliminate taxation. Thanks for the massive realization, man. Now I'll comply with the extortion for the rest of my life while voting against it. Derp.

So, if I sue you in a court of law, is that extortion?

If the lawsuit is genuine, no. It is compensation for damages. Take pollution for example: prior to the 1870s in America, it was dealt with through lawsuits. If the victim of the pollution could demonstrate a direct link between the pollution and a negative effect to his own health/ability to use property (such as farmland), he would be compensated. There are tons of bullsh!t lawsuits under statist law that I don't support though, I don't think anyone supports those ridiculous lawsuits except those who profit from them.

The state does not have a right to compensation based on damages, yet most of the arguments for taxation (all absolutely horrible) involve that assertion of false need (e.g. social contract--you're part of society, therefore you owe money to a monopoly on the initiation of violence, so that the currency they force you to use has legitimacy).

Here are some more statist reactions to the fact that taxation is extortion that never cease to amuse me:

1. Move to somalia (or an unknown country)
2. BUT ITS OUR DUTY TO PAY TAXES (no justification as to why its our duty)
3. Random derision of using a username
4. The government owns you and thus all of the money you make it is by the grace of government that you are allowed to have money at all
5. YOU JUST DONT WANNA HELP PEOPLE YOU ARE EVIL
6. But who will build the roads???? WHO
7. References to being a child despite the fact that I'm 20 and probably make double what most people in the group make
8. Voting somehow legitimizes theft
9. Sometimes just outright insults while at the same time accusing me of being insulting because I have a different political viewpoint then they have.
10. Social contract (that no one ever remembers signing or agreeing to)
11. Since the government steals from you, you don't really own anything in life, thus its not really theft!
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/3/2013 3:16:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 3:08:00 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/3/2013 2:40:15 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/3/2013 2:37:58 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/3/2013 2:23:02 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/3/2013 1:11:45 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/3/2013 12:10:08 AM, Sitara wrote:
At 10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?

I'll bite. taxes are the cost of living in a civlized society. It takes mony to have a strong national defense, criminal system, welfare, and such. Now over or under taxation are both problems, and the key is finding the right type and amount of taxation. But that prison rape thing pisses me the Hell off though.

So if my robber steals my wallet and then gives me some bus money, it's not theft?

False analogy.
Keeping in mind this "robber" is directly influenced by you through the voting process.

Didn't realize I could vote to eliminate taxation. Thanks for the massive realization, man. Now I'll comply with the extortion for the rest of my life while voting against it. Derp.

So, if I sue you in a court of law, is that extortion?

If the lawsuit is genuine, no. It is compensation for damages. Take pollution for example: prior to the 1870s in America, it was dealt with through lawsuits. If the victim of the pollution could demonstrate a direct link between the pollution and a negative effect to his own health/ability to use property (such as farmland), he would be compensated. There are tons of bullsh!t lawsuits under statist law that I don't support though, I don't think anyone supports those ridiculous lawsuits except those who profit from them.

So...the state has a right to use force to force you to pay me? How is that not extortion, if you don't believe you harmed me, or the law you broke you don't like (say minimum wage)?

The state does not have a right to compensation based on damages, yet most of the arguments for taxation (all absolutely horrible) involve that assertion of false need (e.g. social contract--you're part of society, therefore you owe money to a monopoly on the initiation of violence, so that the currency they force you to use has legitimacy).

So, if there is no taxation, how is government funded to protect against illegitimate force, such as foreign aggressors (military) or civil litigants (judicial system)? What do you believe the role of government is? I believe you have told me there is none, and that there can be private police/judicial companies in the anarchist utopia, but, if your company you hire prosecutes me for a crime me and my company don't view as one, are you not extorting me for damages?

Here are some more statist reactions to the fact that taxation is extortion that never cease to amuse me:

1. Move to somalia (or an unknown country)
2. BUT ITS OUR DUTY TO PAY TAXES (no justification as to why its our duty)
3. Random derision of using a username
4. The government owns you and thus all of the money you make it is by the grace of government that you are allowed to have money at all
5. YOU JUST DONT WANNA HELP PEOPLE YOU ARE EVIL
6. But who will build the roads???? WHO
7. References to being a child despite the fact that I'm 20 and probably make double what most people in the group make
8. Voting somehow legitimizes theft
9. Sometimes just outright insults while at the same time accusing me of being insulting because I have a different political viewpoint then they have.
10. Social contract (that no one ever remembers signing or agreeing to)
11. Since the government steals from you, you don't really own anything in life, thus its not really theft!

Those are great, except none of those apply to me, except maybe number eight.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/3/2013 3:18:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
And, to the OP, how is that different than breaking any other law?

Nothing happens to you, unless you get caught, whether it be tax evasion, murder, or speeding.
My work here is, finally, done.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/3/2013 4:22:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 3:18:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
And, to the OP, how is that different than breaking any other law?

Some statist laws apply to defending basic rights. There are laws against rape, murder, sexual assault, assault, fraud, theft, arson, kidnapping, etc. Those laws are justified for being consonant with basic human rights (or if you don't believe in the concept of rights, the laws allow for a better preservation of a well-functioning society).

If you read my post about the book Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent, you'll understand that there are literally thousands of unjust and unjustifiable laws that the government has on its books, so that you may be imprisoned if targeted.

There are also countless statist laws that benefit specific corporations (legal entities created by the state to begin with), special interest groups, unions, and other organizations at the expense of their competitors and/or citizens' income.

Nothing happens to you, unless you get caught, whether it be tax evasion, murder, or speeding.

I was just basing it off the statistical syllogism. If you have a 2% chance of getting audited, it's most likely that you will not get caught. The question is whether or not it's moral. I argue that resisting the extortion by government is moral; we both would probably agree that murder (in most circumstances) is immoral, and that speeding is dangerous.

Tax evasion is materially different from murder in that former is an expression of a basic right, the right to be free from coercion, and the latter is a violation of a right to life.

Speeding is not a violation of rights, but does increase the likelihood that others will be hurt along with drunkenness, lack of caution, mechanical failures, government roads, etc. Don't really feel like arguing about roads right now though.
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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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10/3/2013 5:14:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?

In a general sense of the word (something done under threat of punishment), it isn't. But if you're going to apply it to taxes, then it's application becomes so broad as to lose all meaning.
v3nesl
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10/3/2013 8:22:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 1:09:58 PM, Wnope wrote:
Same is true with many forms of small time fraud.

I just have to point out, for balance, that 'not paying taxes' is basically why there is a United States of America. The founders surely did not believe that a government was the ultimate authority just because they were in power.
This space for rent.
v3nesl
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10/3/2013 8:28:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 5:14:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/2/2013 11:39:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/2/2013 8:26:43 PM, drafterman wrote:
When you start off by calling taxes "extortion" I'm not sure where to stop taking you seriously.

In what way are taxes materially different than extortion?

In a general sense of the word (something done under threat of punishment), it isn't. But if you're going to apply it to taxes, then it's application becomes so broad as to lose all meaning.

Yes, technically most federal taxation is constitutional (i.e. legal). But income tax was sold as a lie, it was to be 1% on the 1%, so in that sense it is fraud. Same with Social Security. It's not really arguable that America is currently run by outlaws. Sounds tin hat, but it's technically true. We Americans just don't have the balls to stand up for our rights, don't have the guts to stare down the outlaws when they exceed the constitution. It's really as simple as that, I'm afraid, and I point the finger at myself when I say that.
This space for rent.
Khaos_Mage
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10/3/2013 11:25:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 8:22:35 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 10/2/2013 1:09:58 PM, Wnope wrote:
Same is true with many forms of small time fraud.

I just have to point out, for balance, that 'not paying taxes' is basically why there is a United States of America. The founders surely did not believe that a government was the ultimate authority just because they were in power.

I thought it was because we had no representation in government, not the mere fact that we were being taxed. Plus, we were being taxed unfairly, if memory serves. We paid sugar and stamp taxes, while other colonies/homeland did not.
My work here is, finally, done.
Wnope
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10/4/2013 3:02:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/3/2013 8:22:35 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 10/2/2013 1:09:58 PM, Wnope wrote:
Same is true with many forms of small time fraud.

I just have to point out, for balance, that 'not paying taxes' is basically why there is a United States of America. The founders surely did not believe that a government was the ultimate authority just because they were in power.

In your opinion, what motivation was there then for having a constitution as opposed to just Articles of Confederation?